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4th Dimension

Thanks, Kurch, I will check it out there on Amazon. 😀

Its a non fiction book about lots of modern cosmology. very well written. Unfortunately cosmology has moved further and stranger from there LOL but its a good start. 😀
 
My local bookstore occasionally sells "Flatland" paperbacks at 50 cents each, so I'll stock up to pass them out to my good students. I also hand out copies of the sequel, "Sphereland". It was written in the '50s, and specifically addresses 4 and higher dimensions. I don't know that true mental visualization of higher dimensions is possible, but Sphereland shows most students how to answer many of their questions by analogy.

http://www.amazon.com/Sphereland-Fantasy-Curved-Expanding-Universe/dp/0064635740

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphereland

🙂 E. Bunbury

P.S. Just a side note - since relativity began treating time with the same mathematics we use for spatial dimensions, physicists spent a few decades referrring to time as the fourth dimension, so we sometimes use the phrase "4th spatial dimension" to be clear we're not referring to time.
 
My local bookstore occasionally sells "Flatland" paperbacks at 50 cents each, so I'll stock up to pass them out to my good students. I also hand out copies of the sequel, "Sphereland". It was written in the '50s, and specifically addresses 4 and higher dimensions. I don't know that true mental visualization of higher dimensions is possible, but Sphereland shows most students how to answer many of their questions by analogy.

http://www.amazon.com/Sphereland-Fantasy-Curved-Expanding-Universe/dp/0064635740

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphereland

🙂 E. Bunbury

P.S. Just a side note - since relativity began treating time with the same mathematics we use for spatial dimensions, physicists spent a few decades referrring to time as the fourth dimension, so we sometimes use the phrase "4th spatial dimension" to be clear we're not referring to time.

Thanks Ebunbury. 😀 I think I might have read the sequel too but I will check out the links. 😀 😀 😛
 
Danger - physics lecture gobbledegook ahead

There are two major models which attempt to extend physics beyond the so-called Standard Model; supersymmetry (SUZY), and string theory. There are several possible forms of each. Both models are extensively studied theoretically, neither has any experimental support as yet.

Supersymmetry does not require a particular number of dimensions beyond the 4 we perceive (three spatial dimensions plus time), but allows for the possibility of up to 11 spatial dimensions.

String theories requires more than the three spatial dimensions and time. The most widely-studied string theory, the membrane or M-theory, requires 11 spatial dimensions. (This is the one Kurch mentioned. Always knew you were a Brane-y fellow, Kurch!!) The related superstring theory requires ten, while the bosonic string theories require 26 dimensions. (Bosons are a class of subatomic particles, defined as having integer spins, that includes the photon, the name for a particle of light.) All these string theory dimensions are for flat space; if space is curved, the numbers go up.

My beginning students often ask why we only perceive three spatial dimensions if there are more than three. The basic answer is, we don't know for sure. There are two popular ideas. One is that the universe is smaller in the other dimensions than we can perceive. If the universe were trillions of light-years across in "our" three dimensions, but the size of an electron in the others, we would not perceive the others. Another idea is specific to the M-theory of string theory, and says that the universe we perceive is only a three-dimensional (+1 for time) subset of the whole.

The question my students ask most often, though, is "What makes us believe this ****?" I spend a great deal of time on that in the class for non-majors. We don't believe either of these yet (although emotions among researchers can run high). Both models developed from a mathematical explanation called the Standard Model. The Standard Model is a set of equations. The several solutions to the equations describe the properties of known subatomic particles, which gave us confidence in the equations, but there were more solutions than there were particles. When new particles were discovered, and they turned out to have the properties the equations predicted, the mayor of Physicsville declared a holiday, and there was much rejoicing, Robin's minstrels sang, etc.)

But there are properties of the universe not covered in the standard model, so after the rejoicing, the mayor put all the physicists back to work on extending the Standard Model. SUSY and string theory are possible extensions. Each makes more predictions (new particles and properties of the universe), but our technology hasn't yet been able to check any of the new predictions. [Not quite true, we've already eliminated a few minor versions of each.] That's why physicists get so excited about new particle accelerators and telescopes - they offer the chance to check the predictions and maybe decide if SUZY or string theory is the way to go, or if we're way off base and have to look in a new direction.

Wikipedia has decent articles on the Standard Model, and on both supersymmetry and string theory, but they assume you remember some of your modern physics class. If you've followed the discoveries of quarks in popular magazines like Scientific American, they should give you the gist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersymmetry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory

🙂 E. Bunbury
 
Thanks Ebunbury. I always loved Cosmology and the stranger part of physics like quantum theory, particle physics and of course relativity. 😀

I had heard that scientists through M Theory and the use parallel universes were able to come up with a kind of Unified Field Theory. I heard this on a Nova Special on KCET but was looking for more info on it.

Also I am currently reading in Scientific American that even the Big Bang is not quite so accurate that the universe actually went through a rapid inflationary stage and grew extremely large in few fractions of a second. This is where fractal type thinking comes in. The universe was actually like a huge fractal, a lot of inflating balls generating other inflating balls and so on. Each ball might have somewhat different laws governing it. Still just a theory at this point but very interesting stuff.
 
Yes, inflation was very popular in the 80s, and is still in the running, but as you mention, it's been losing ground recently. There are so many neat ideas out there; now if we could just find some hard evidence for one of them!

Given the big holiday coming up Friday, can I retire to the Pi-th dimension? Fractional dimensions can be useful in math (I own a book on fractional calculus - talks about things like a 2 and a half-th derivative), but I've never heard anyone claim them for reality. Maybe we can start a new physics with the 3.141592... -th dimension. 🙂

🙂 E. Bunbury
 
Yes, inflation was very popular in the 80s, and is still in the running, but as you mention, it's been losing ground recently. There are so many neat ideas out there; now if we could just find some hard evidence for one of them!

Given the big holiday coming up Friday, can I retire to the Pi-th dimension? Fractional dimensions can be useful in math (I own a book on fractional calculus - talks about things like a 2 and a half-th derivative), but I've never heard anyone claim them for reality. Maybe we can start a new physics with the 3.141592... -th dimension. 🙂

🙂 E. Bunbury

Yes lots of very interesting ideas out there. As you say though very hard to test them with experiments or to find any evidence out there.

I think in Carl Sagans Sci Fi book, man discovers at the end of the book that Pi is not random but rather a unique message from a very ancient race. So the idea of Pi based physics is I think very interesting. 😀

As an artist I love fractals cause most of the 3d programs use them on some level to generate landscapes, clouds, galaxies etc. Fractals are all around us, so it makes sense that maybe the universe is a giant fractal 😀
 
Wow thanks!

Oooooh thanks a lot for the train of thoughts, but I never expect opening a can of worms! My good chums (Referential guys) are here alright. I've been reading the postings verbatim. I'll add this link:

http://eusebeia.dyndns.org/4d/vis/vis.html

BTW, Ebunbury, those inputs you gave are really educational!

:smilestar :bunny:
 
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A book you all might be interested, if you haven't read it yet, is Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time. The Tesseract is a major plot point.

Also, I loved Flatland, and I can't resist posting this animated version of the They Might Be Giants Song written in its honor:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LsAiCs66l40&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LsAiCs66l40&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
 
Thanks Subtle_feather. I'll check the book + I'll watch that song now. It gives me an impression that it's prog or so...

*After some minutes*
Lol, that's amusing cartoon...comedy non-prog... 😱 😀
 
LMAO...I watched the video again ..."SPLAT!" That was hilarious and despicable. :jester: 😱
 
A conversation between THE THREAD and kurch:

THE THREAD: What will we do when we run out of stuff to explore?

kurchatovium: I suppose that wont happen for a very long time THREADIE.

THE THREAD: Still logically it will happen at some point.

kurchatovium: I suppose that is true. I guess we will just have to create new universes to explore at that point.

THE THREAD: Are we allowed to do that?

kurchatovium: As long as the universes have ice cream I think we are.

😀 😀 😛
 
A conversation between THE THREAD and kurch:
THE THREAD: What will we do when we run out of stuff to explore?
kurchatovium: I suppose that wont happen for a very long time THREADIE.
THE THREAD: Still logically it will happen at some point.
kurchatovium: I suppose that is true. I guess we will just have to create new universes to explore at that point.
THE THREAD: Are we allowed to do that?
kurchatovium: As long as the universes have ice cream I think we are.
😀 😀 😛

I know! Let's ask Multivac!

http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

🙂 E. Bunbury
 
A conversation between THE THREAD and kurch:

THE THREAD: What will we do when we run out of stuff to explore?

kurchatovium: I suppose that wont happen for a very long time THREADIE.

THE THREAD: Still logically it will happen at some point.

kurchatovium: I suppose that is true. I guess we will just have to create new universes to explore at that point.

THE THREAD: Are we allowed to do that?

kurchatovium: As long as the universes have ice cream I think we are.

😀 😀 😛

^

A conversation between THE THREAD and INFINITY:

INFINITY: You’re almost approaching zero after entering the blackhole! How did that happen?

THE THREAD: I got vigilant inhabitants who crashed the evils even with eyes closed, they bilocate at subatomic scales exploring and unraveling each planes, and without knowing, the universe had gotten too small.

INFINITY: That’s irrelevant, I’m talking about how did they endure it all?

THE THREAD: The Self-Referential Manufacturing Factory never stopped producing ice cream! :xpulcy:
 
You cant beat The Foundation though. 😀

😀 😀 😛
 
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Hmm... I guess my sense of mass needs reframbulating. Asimov is heavy reading, but supersymmetry and string theory aren't?! 🙂

🙂 E. Bunbury

Got an Asimov book...got to review again and read all the links you got here as well.

As of 11-dimensions...Kurch, it must have been 12, otherwise it has been missed. From Zechariah Sitchin's theories (from the book "12th planet), that number has historical and astronomical significance to the universe's rotational order.
 
I'll get back to this ancient significance of 12 soon...which will reveal very interesting divisibilities of the constellation, and current boundaries of time, etc...and possibilities of undiscovered planet.

More of the craze...hopefully.
 
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There is some confusion in terms with respect to the labelling of four-dimensional phenomena. The confusion centers around the four-dimensional analog of the cube. There are basically two camps. The first camp uses the hyper- prefix for only the fourth dimension, and the word 'tesseract' to refer to one of two things - either the four-dimensional hypercube folded out into three-dimensional space, or to the cube-inside-a-cube visualization of the four-dimensional hypercube. The second camp uses the hyper- prefix to refer to any dimension above the third (and sometimes to refer to any dimension), and 'tesseract' to refer to a four-dimensional hypercube.
 
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