A question for ALL the Artists...

[Celtic_Emperor]

I wasn't mad. I always type that way. lol 😛

Thats good to know. I quoted you however because what you said here can serve a point to the way the thread has gone- Some people are just some ways. I keep telling people I mean no personal animosity towards them, but I'm just an agressive person sometimes when it comes to topics that matter to me.

As a person I am not the way CC described me above, in his post. The person I see, in his description is like an evil twin that I don't have. Its really sad, unfortunate really that I mean one thing and its coming acrossed another. I use strong words, but I often don't mean them to the extent that they are taken. Given the situation he, Kalamos, and I brought up, that was genuine anger and the words there were real.

Everything else was to be taken at face value. It was never intended to be warped or contorted to fit one's own feelings of me. I don't blame him for being angry, but he is exagerating. I know he'll say I'm exagerating about the event, but I'm not. It affected me and me alone as it was directed at me wholy. He cannot know what it felt like and he never will. All he can do is use the emotions there to fuel how he feels about me now and the result is this explosion.

Lately, no, to hell with that, for a long time now I've been just fine. Whenever these little flare ups happen though I'm made to look like the devil. I'm an outstanding member and I've got no beef with any individual right now. Things are quite good for me and everyone.

Sorry to use something you said and apply it to something else Shadow, but what you said was perfect, and helped. At least it helped me in making at least some point in this.

 

[Kalamos]

Re: Did I miss something?

Here I go trying to understand you again. 😕
Okay, so you start a thread in a PUBLIC FORUM so you can talk PUBLICLY about everybody else whose opinions we should keep PRIVATE. Am I understanding that snide, elitist-sounding statement correctly? Cause I really want to understand.

Well, tough call on this one. 🙂

But this thread really catered to artists. Not "only", but mostly.

Not because they [we?] are an elitist bunch, a close knit society or anything like that.

[Especially not me - I play solo. 🙂 ]

But, unless you produce some kind of fetish content, it is quite unlikely you'll ever get a msg from a fan stating he masturbates over your works. 🙂

I'd say this thread is more properly aimed to ppl who, like tk artists, routinely get this "graphical" kind of fan mail.

Maybe you think it is flattering getting fan mail. It is as long as comments are nice and positive.

Just to speak of something non-fetish, I had to reply to a guy who critized the historical accuracy of a fantasy pic I did a while ago.
That was a bit obnoxious, since he even misquoted sources.

So, posting something over the web is really a mixed blessing. Either you don't get all the attention you think you deserve, OR you get too much, even of the nasty kind.

But, again, by tradition, artists can never be happy very long. 😀 😀 😀

Reg's!

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Very well put, Kalamos. 🙂

I think in the end though, all artists condemn themselves to a degree. The facinating thing about this though is that its not genetic and it happens almost regardless of one's points of view.

The stereotypes of "starving and tortured" that are often attached to us bear some grain of truth. We're starving to become better and we're torturing ourselves as a means to an ends.

Some studies show that more and more artists have had some sort of family problem, or fall out with people they care about, or something they care about. They've lost something or have regrets. It's hypothesized that its truely, deep down, these things that drives us to art.

The art is therefore symbolic. Of course, this is something you and alot of people already know, and it wouldn't apply to everyone. But it never hurts to talk about it. ^__^

 

[Kalamos]

Re: Okay, thats it...

Originally posted by Cheshire Cat
This is it, I'm tired of pretending to be nice. Listen you high and mighty #$%@. You talk down to every single person who doesnt agree with your views, acting like some kind of all powerful, all intelligent pariah who must be acknowledged for his actions and sacrifices. "I'm not even a fetishist and I do this art anyway..."

Ok, now I am sure: someone is deleting posts under my nose. 🙂

I failed to see the incriminating post. And about the anger DJ mentioned in his later post, I couldn't see any.

I think threads are getting mixed up: I can't keep track of what DJ is referring to. Not for lack of trying, but I can't bear to dig ages old posts - so I can update myself on the matter.

I also think my prose is dry enough to prevent misunderstandings. But, should need arise, I'll try to recap things.

I thought this thread was about ppl masturbating over our art.

About the old Sl44n3sh thread, I don't think DJ could reasonably claim originality over his own pic. BUT I can understand his point about being ripped by Sl44n3sh.

I don't know why you guys got back to the whole affair.


About DJ being a non-fetishist doing fetish art:

I can see and understand Cheshire's point. It is very good and reasonable. Fetishists are a bit sensitive, and by stating he is not a fetishist, DJ is straining relationships a bit.

I would suggest him to claim a measure of embarassment over fetish art, instead: it would be nicer and natural, since everybody here is [or was] embarassed about his/her/its fetish.

It would be the same thing, but it wouldn't strain relationships as much.
Personally I have several internet personas, one per kind of drawing I do.

This way I circumvent embarassment by "being" another person altogether to prospective fans.

I would suggest to DJ a lower profile about his fetish feelings. While truthfulness is a virtue, being too much can be blunt to someone. 🙂

I'm sure you are a deep guy, DJ, and you can understand ppl don't all react the same way. They don't mean ill to you, but everybody can feel hurt about something.

And CC clearly feels hurt about your attitude over fetishism.

There is nothing wrong about being conflictual, but I really think ppl should sort their conflicts on their own, not at others' expenses.

Yes, it is hard to please everybody, but it is a necessity if we want to keep a modicum of harmony over the art forum.


Ok. That's it. I tried to be as diplomatic as my nature allowed me to.
I hold no bad feelings toward anybody who's posted here.

I like your art, guys. And since the thread is about masturbation I have no problems saying at least one pic from any of you did the trick for me.

I could even quote my "wetter" pic from all of you. Just to increase your embarass-factor by a couple of notches. 😉 😉 😉


Now, I have an OS to tame. I wouldn't want this thread to grow any larger with un-necessary hatred while I am away. 😀

Or the mods will delete those posts and I won't understand a sacred fig over the whole matter anymore. 😀 😀 😀


Reg's.

 

[Everlast]

.....so wait.....i'm not......artistic then?

😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱

......sorry, so ripped I'm surprised i can type straight.....but seriously, don't be mad guys, we have so much to be thankful for....we finally got martha stewart! No longer will we live in a world where we'll always have to be looking over our shoulder, living in fear that martha stewart is out there......somewhere




and the people rejoice......

....well, later I guess.....and if the above makes sense to anyone, well, you need help.....

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Well, if the concerning posts are being deleted I'm all for that. It was a good call on the part of the mods, even if it means its all completely gone and theres no sign of there ever having been a talk of such things. In that case, its even better. But I doubt it does any real good since people have been reading this thread left and right to see what happens. Although I will admit it is a bit frustrating, simply because I wasn't flaming by definition, insulting anyone, and was more or less reminissing. To take away something thats under control doesn't make sense and it doesn't seem enough people would know of the event to be able to honestly keep replying to it or have an opinion based on limited and 3rd party information. It will have died off on its own.

If you want though Kalamos, you can respond to my last post. It didn't have anything to do with that, and its obvious I have been trying to turn this back around. Its other people bringing it back thats the problem. I thought we were done and over with that chapter until CC brought it back up just now.

 

[Kalamos]

Its other people bringing it back thats the problem. I thought we were done and over with that chapter until CC brought it back up just now.

We dug up an older thread, there - about Sl44n3sh and your feelings about fetish art. And from CC's post I would say the matter is still delicate and sour [for CC at least].

I would urge you, once again, to reconsider the way you express your feelings [or at least, how you DID express them].

I don't think CC brought it back only to fight. Maybe he is neguinely upset over something.

There's nothing wrong in delving deeper in your feelings, as long as you make them quite clear and readily understandable.


CC accuses you of being too long winded. He claims you use your prose to confound and discriminate, instead of making things clearer.

I would suggest you reflected on that - unless you dismiss him as being prejudiced against you.

I can't believe a drier prose couldn't convey your ideas as effectively - or even more.

English is such a dry poignant language; italian can't help but being ultimately verbose. Odd heritage, since latin could be very very dry.


So, if you care about opinions, I'm sure you'll ponder over mine.


Reg's.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

To make this more understandable I'll break it down into numbers.

1.) That thread and going back to it for whatever reason is quite petty. Also, that one single solitary thread doesn't begin to describe half of what actually happened out of what could have been deleted or editted by him to make it look better for him later. Sure, from an outside perspective reading it now seems like it was peanuts.

I will again state- I was the only one to know how it would feel. I knew what he did, why he did it, and to the extent in which he meant his assault to be implied. It wasn't a coincidence and how dare anyone say that. What he did was definite, pronounced, undeniable, unarguable, and he meant it to stick.

The funny thing about that is, its sticking to the wrong people. In case you haven't read people, I've forgiven him, and since then we've been distant BUT we are not enemies. I could just as easily talk to him now. There is no issue about me and him right now.

2.) I never did imply or say that the picture was mine by some copyright. To do so would be silly and stupid. Chun-Li Xiang and Cammy White are the exclusive property of CAPCOM. Why then would I claim they were mine to protect the picture? I can't, and I didn't. I never once impled this was a legal issue. And if it came across that way then those that read it need to wax their ears.

3.) I don't know why CC hates me so. I don't hate him. I've never done a damn thing to him. Up to this point he had been ignoring me. If he truely, and genuinely is hurt in some way he needs to come to ME and explain himself in a non-agressive manner. Its obvious theres something more to this than meets the eye, and I want to know what it is, because it needs to stop, and it needs to stop now.

4.) Read my last few posts. Just read them. Its clear I have no interest in bringing that up. It was infact CC who brought it up. It doesn't matter how he did it, but he did. If he hadn't I wouldn't be typing this now. He remembers it just as well as I do apparently, but he was the first to mention it. The thought never would have crossed my mind otherwise. I put my gurantee on that. And now he's trying to get back at me in anger for something he's harbored a very long time.

Whats sad about this is I wish he could have come to me sooner. This is now more about him than it is about me. It never was about him, but he had taken it upon himself apparently to not let the event have no meaning for him. The only one who is justified in feeling horrible about it is me. And only me. I was the target and I was the victim. I'm not crying and whining about it, I'm just stating a very obvious fact.

5.) How old is this topic you "dug" up and why did you dig it up to begin with? Did it ever occur to anyone that my feelings might have changed on the matter or improved? I'm clearly more accepting of the genre today than I was as a newbie then. Its not like I'm some ancient evil that has been brought back to life. Everyone alive is a work in progress, and I absolutely refuse to be targeted and scrutinized for that event any longer. It was totally his fault and I was an innocent in the matter defending himself the best he could under the circumstances and state of mind I was in at the time.

I'm not on trial. Period.

6.) I forgave him. As hard as it was at the time, I did what I thought would be the right thing to do. He knows he's forgiven. And if he doesn't know its because he doesn't want to hear it. Slaanesh I mean.

If I have forgiven him of this act, which isn't that common and probably made it harder to deal with, then why cannot people forgive me for defending myself? Nay, why do I, the person most affected by the incident, have to apologize to anyone for or need to be forgiven?

Forgiven for what? Blowing my stack and wanting to get some justice? Hell no. I had every right then and every right now to take my art as seriously as I want to. He clearly did something that was wrong, in any light, and he paid for it. It doesn't matter how, just that he did. He was dealt with by me verbally and by the mods technically. The right things happened in the end. He was sorry and I forgave him.

Thats all I ever wanted from it, and I got it. I have no reason to be angry with him about it now. But when people bring it up, and its in such a way that it downplays what I went through or denies any real wrong doing or harm, you can be sure I'm going to put the facts straight. I won't let a part of my history be re-written for sport or as a weopon against me later. Its just not right.

7.) This thread is completely off topic at points, and I've done my share to try and turn it around. If no one is going to move away from the other thing then this is only going to continue.

CC accuses me of being what he says. If thats true, then where are the effects? Where are the disgruntled people breathing down my throat? Why is it I get requests so frequently? Why would I be given a forum of my own on another site if these people planned to sabotage my efforts? Where are the hurt people? Where are the horribly distraught?

Unless I'm seeing things, everything is fine. And it has been for a long time. I've always said if someone has a personal issue with me, and its not good, then they should take it up with me. I'd prefer in private.

Finally, if I was such the menace and evil and horribly disgusting creature CC and one other has made me out to be, why am I still here? If I was a plague, I would have been banned. Simple as that. People would have made an effort behind my back to get me out of here whether or not it would succeed or be ok with the mods.

If I'm this horrible monster that just beats people down verbally then surely I would not be here. Its as simple as that.

The only answer to all this is- Its all been exagerated. In truth, theres nothing truely wrong with me, I have not commited any horrible crime, I don't deserve this kind of feedback from him or anyone with the same sentiments, and those that feel like he does are no more than a mob that have it out for me and have ever since. They allowed the incident to affect them so. They allowed it to take precidence over how they felt about me. That was their choice. I didn't have a choice. I was forced to deal with it, and I did the best I could under a circumstance I had never been in my entire life. Art is such a profound and important thing for me. Slaanesh robbed me of my security that day. I no longer ignorantly trust the online system, and when I can, I do put the essential copyrights on my work, whether the work belongs to me or I wish to honor the copyright of the offical owner (Lucasfilm with my Leia picture).

 

[Everlast]

.....i think everyone is telling you to type less, man......such long posts......oh so long......

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I get the point, but I'm sorry. This is more important right now. This issue needs to be settled right now, once and for all, and I hope its not deleted or editted by the mods. This needs to run its course once and for all. This thread, with its topic of masturbation was pretty much over anyway. I don't think anyone is going to complain or bitch about something thats uncomfortable to talk about in the first place. Only those brave enough to come forward have, and I'm guessing all of them have by now.

So that leaves the other issue. I want it settled, because its not my damn problem anymore. It ceased being my problem when I forgave slaanesh.

 

[Kalamos]

That's true: you are not under trial.

But I am bit disappointed: I think you reason by extremes.

CC is not telling you are a monster.

He is telling you have been careless by stating you are a non-fetishist that draws fetish art.

THIS is an important issue. Reason about it. Embarassment is a two-way road.

You have cleared it with me, but as it seems if wasn't clear to him. Or he had other problems with it.

And once again you evaded MY topic. I think you should be a bit more considerate.
Not because you are undersensitive, but maybe because they are oversensitive.

Being popular as an artist is NOT the same thing as being liked as an individual.

I don't know if CC is the only one harbouring a grudge at you over your fetish attitude, but waiting for hard evidence might be bad strategy.


Ok. I am no diplomat. By nature I'm laidback, but not submissive.
I've explained and mediated a lot.

Next time I'm drawing blood. 😉


Reg's.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I'm not evading anything. I've read every single post here and get the most out of yours.

What would you have me do? Pretend to feel a way I don't? Pretend to have a fetish? Pretend to be embarassed? That doesn't make any sense.

You say I'm evading you? You're evading my last post, which coincidentally sums up this whole damn thing. Its becoming a little hypocritcal. Please don't create a problem for you and me. 🙁

Theres nothing more I can do. Its up to him. It ended for me when I forgave slaanesh. Its only coming up now because he wants it to. He even said that he's been waiting a long time to say this so its better that it came out now than later. All of what he said though is completely false and/or completely exagerated and wouldn't even happen on a regular basis. Hell, if I was as horrible a person as he makes me out to be I would have left on my own accord.

He's telling me basically I need to get it together? No, he needs to get it together now. I got it together then and he needs to get it together now. I washed my hands of this a long time ago. I'm not responsible for his feelings. Thats something he needs to sort out and deal with.

You're going to draw blood next time? No offense, but there isn't anything at this point that you or anyone could say or do that would compare to what I've already been through on account of this. I'm not taunting or daring you, I'm just saying it would be pointless.

 

[Dave2112]

Ok, here's the deal. I don't like to have to do Mod-type stuff in Artwork, but I think it's best at this point.

First off, I want to emphatically adress the issue of post deletion. NO POSTS have been deleted since this thread started. Posts do not get deleted arbitrarily. Just so we're clear on that.

Second, this needs a rest. Normally, I'd pull this for review, but for the most part everyone's at least been civil, and I didn't want anyone thinking that the thread had been yanked without reason. The fact is, we have differing opinions here, all well-stated, but different. We have made that abundantly clear. No one is going to change thier opinions about what they believe. We have made THAT abundantly clear. I can't see the point in this continuing when there's no wrong or right stand in any of this. This thread started as a discussion about artist's feelings toward certain responses to thier work. It has grown into an ongoing debate over post lengths, long-ago grudges, copyright issues and a slew of people making sure everybody knows they have the best intentions in mind.

So here's what I'm gonna do. I'm going to close this thread for the time being. Give everybody a day or two to either cool off or just focus on something else. There seem to be only three or four people actively involved in this now. If you wish (and I'd recommend this) you can continue via personal PM's or E-mails. The thread is way off course, and starting a new one for this isn't a great idea. I'll open it back up in a few days and see how things go.

All in all, this is a good group and an important part of the Forum. Let's focus on that for a bit. You're all talented contributors and we all do have a common goal and interest, just one with many facets.

😎