Actually thought provoking... (maybe)

[TheChameleon]

I was wondering...

"The Church" (yes, I'm calling ALL religions one church...) tends to state that homosexuality is considered "a sin" because its not God's will...

I think we can all understand what they're trying to say, that just because A doesn't want to plug into B, that God doesn't like it, whatever, it doesn't make sense to me, anyway...

Thats not what my little thread's about.

The question here is, would religion consider what we're into as something that "God wouldn't like" as well? I mean, our sexuality doesn't conform to society's, and we aren't procreating such as God "would want us to."

And, me, for example, I don't EVER feel the need for sex. I mean, I'll probably try it so I can make me a kid or two, but other than offspring, I have no need for sex.

Does anybody have anything to add to my mindless rant?

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I don't know what part of that post to correct first. LOL

Procreation and fetishes are not the same thing, so no. Thats like comparing masturbation to intercourse and exclaiming that they are exactly the same thing.

A common misconception people have about God is that He is more concerned about the manner in which you arrive at sexual copulation than copulation itself. As long as you are using your sexual powers and faculties legitimately and for the right reasons, and will take responsibility, the means to which you arrive to coitus is not His concern in a loving relationship.

Sex is a gift from God to us. We know what He intended it to be used for, but let us not forget that He also designed it to be pleasurable and fulfilling. God created pure passion. He made every part of the female and male body in such a way that it could/would be inticing and pleasing to the other. To enchance sexual union by untraditional means is neither a sin nor a crime so long as the union is not morally devalued or corrupted because of the acts or the sex act is purely sinful.

If your concern is whether or not having a fetish matters, it most certainly does not in the greater scheme of your destiny. He doesn't care about your quirk or including it in sex as long as it doesn't lead you to sinful debauchery and other negative vices. Then He starts to care because He knows it will lead you down the wrong path eventually.

The Church is not going to question what you do in the bedroom either unless you broadcast it. LOL

If anything, people who have fetishes have them so they can better discipline themselves and grow and learn from them and the experiences, good and bad, that they have because of them.

 

[TheChameleon]

Well, I was just asking a question, I don't broadcast, nor am I really concerned with what the church thinks, aside from, possibly, how crazy it would be to excommunicate those who view something different (such as homosexual relationships or tickling) as sexual.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Well, that would be why they're called hypothetical situations. Though, for a hypothetical question, it sure is a touchy subject. ^^

 

[morgandee]

who cares about what god thinks, you only need to know that anonymous does not forgive

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

who cares about what god thinks

About 90% of the world, I gather. Oh, wait, that was rhetorical, wasn't it? 😛

 

[TheChameleon]

Hahaha... well, yes, I happen to choose touchy subjects when I choose hypothetical situations.

 

[LeeAllure1]

I was fortunate enough to be ordained in the World Ministry of Laughter
several years ago. This religion encourages laughter, tickling, and all the
good which goes along with that. 🙂

Lee

 

[Journia]

Bring on my church.

 

[Kalamos]

The question here is, would religion consider what we're into as something that "God wouldn't like" as well?

Yes.
That is, if you are implying "self-dating" as well.
Catholic religion and Islam do consider masturbation sinful.
Dunno about Hebraism, but I wouldn't be surprised, given how closely connected the three Book religions are.
If you devote your sexual energie elsewhere, as opposed to growing a family and multiplying your ilk, you're probably going against a religious tenet or two.

Of course, catholicism has a hidden ace up its sleeves: priests and confession.
Since you can atone for your sins before a priest, there is a bit more leeway.
No priest would tell you'll burn in hell because you have fun with an adult video, or if you had "extended" foreplays with a lady.
They'll tell you to repent - and maybe they'll hint about the chapel's renovation costs...

Protestants and lutheran christians, on the other hand, do not share the same religious tenets and customs.
As far as I know you can't rely on confession, but you can do without priests.
That's why a preacher *could* tell you that an obscure passage of the Bible actually says that tickling is Evil (tm) and you'll burn like the ugly sinner you are...
While it takes the whole Catholic Roman Church to say the same to catholic flocks.

...

No matter what people say, deities rarely let us know, straight and dry, what's in their own heavenly minds.

😉

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

When it comes down to confession, whether it is a mortal sin or a venial sin depends soley on the state of mind the person was in when the act was commited. Because the priest is there to help you examine your conscience, he is better able, perhaps more so than yourself, to help you determine where you stand with your sin.

If you're a teen boy confessing about masturbating over a girl you like, for example, the priest will probably reassure you before he explains you've done nothing wrong.

You're at a stage of puberty, but you are still nonetheless innocent and pure at heart.

Masturbation really becomes a sin when it is a vice, obstacle, or becomes a negative disposition in one's psyche. The idea that "self love" is actually "self abuse" and therefore a sin upon yourself is derived from the idea that to be consumed to the point of lust is to become degenerative and stunt your own emotional and psychological growth.

To put it another way:

"Chastity includes an apprenticeship in self-mastery which is a training in human freedom. The alternative is clear: either man governs his passions and finds peace, or he lets himself be dominated by them and becomes unhappy.125 "Man's dignity therefore requires him to act out of conscious and free choice, as moved and drawn in a personal way from within, and not by blind impulses in himself or by mere external constraint. Man gains such dignity when, ridding himself of all slavery to the passions, he presses forward to his goal by freely choosing what is good and, by his diligence and skill, effectively secures for himself the means suited to this end."126"

Because we are imperfect, and have been forgiven once and for all, by our Lord, masturbation, while a sin at a base level, is not so grave as to send you to hell or keep you from God's graces, especially when and if it is an outlet merely to relieve yourself of sexual frustration or tension.

To actually quote a priest I went to confession to and I asked him about this:

"This is popcorn stuff."

I've had other priests tell me similar things (perhaps in less jovial ways), so I know it's not just one priest's opinion, and they are all to forgive (on behalf of Christ as his instruments) you in any case.

In other words, don't sweat it, it's not as big a deal as people think. There are different degrees of sin, and most people are commiting only very minor (venial) sins at best. It only becomes serious (mortal) when you fail to achieve the above quote, and you are mastered by sin and indulgence, rather than surpassing and taming it yourself.

This is common sense really, whether it would have been coming from the catholic church or any other. It's a lesson in life of self-respect and love, and one that is reoccuring throughout your mortal life and one that both tests you and your resolve to remain virtuous despite your human frailty.

 

[GEORGIATKLER]

Good Topic And Discusion

I Think That We All Sin In Many Different Areas, Sins Of Commission And Ommission. Sometimes As A Defense Mechanism We Make A Mental List Of Major Sins We Haven't Committed (yet) To Show How "good" We Are. Then There's The Ever Popular Seeing The Splinter In Another's Eye In Spite Of The Beam In Our Own. Any Sin Separates Us From God. Look At All The Attrocities That Man Has Done In The Name Of Religion. I Think My Fetish Is A Sin But I Do Nothing To Stop Or "cure" It. Btw, My Jesus Can Beat The Hell Outta Your Jesus. Amen. 🙂

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

To really break it down for you:

Having a fetish that forces you to masturbate is not a mortal sin because you may very well have little to no control over your own conscious impulses by nature and not by habit or personal fault. No one would penalize a mental retardation, and likewise, no one would penalize or put shame one who has very little choice over their conscious masturbative fantasies.

Remember that sin is commited when no effort at all is made to defy it.

Because the fetish is what fuels the masturbation, and the fetish itself is not yet treatable, psychologically speaking, the person is automatically assumed to be pardoned, for they are not in control over ALL of their faculties, despite their best intentions, efforts, and wishes to be.

Many see their fetish as a curse, and would gladly do away with it if it were possible.

This does not give you a free pass however to go willy nilly without guilt or shame. What it means is the base sin (excluding anything added to it commited by your free will) cannot be held against you because you are not capable of fighting back, and any fair chance to defy sin is further reduced by the psychological prompts the fetish imposes on you.

If you are not working to defy sin the best you can and calling on God to help you, then, you are aiding it, and therefore would possibly fall from venial into mortal sin just as a "normal" person would for different reasons (like excessive devotion to pornography for example).

Most of you guys and gals seem like pretty swell people to me, and people who are not morally inept or braindead, and many of you are religious- a testament to your own virtue, which God is proud of you for. You are proof that things can be balanced. Therefore, as per this discussion, God and the Church would forgive you and to answer the question, no...the Church would not excommunicate you.

As the saying goes "don't worry, be happy." 🙂

 

[Journia]

Yes.
That is, if you are implying "self-dating" as well.
Catholic religion and Islam do consider masturbation sinful.
Dunno about Hebraism, but I wouldn't be surprised, given how closely connected the three Book religions are.
If you devote your sexual energie elsewhere, as opposed to growing a family and multiplying your ilk, you're probably going against a religious tenet or two.

Of course, catholicism has a hidden ace up its sleeves: priests and confession.
Since you can atone for your sins before a priest, there is a bit more leeway.
No priest would tell you'll burn in hell because you have fun with an adult video, or if you had "extended" foreplays with a lady.
They'll tell you to repent - and maybe they'll hint about the chapel's renovation costs...

Protestants and lutheran christians, on the other hand, do not share the same religious tenets and customs.
As far as I know you can't rely on confession, but you can do without priests.
That's why a preacher *could* tell you that an obscure passage of the Bible actually says that tickling is Evil (tm) and you'll burn like the ugly sinner you are...
While it takes the whole Catholic Roman Church to say the same to catholic flocks.

...

No matter what people say, deities rarely let us know, straight and dry, what's in their own heavenly minds.

😉

Actually, Islam does not considermasturbation a sin. Like Vladislav said, only when it becomes an obstacle in your life, does it become sinful. In the case of tickling a naked woman, I would say yes it would be sinful in islam, if you thought about it so often that it became a dominating thought within your daily life. Otherwise, if it is simply a thought which comes and goes, nothing is the matter.

 

[TheChameleon]

I made a semi-relevant and read thread! YAY!

Thank you for all the insight, you guys!

 

[Journia]

Your welcome! *smiles and cocks head to the side like an anime character*

 

[Kalamos]

Actually, Islam does not considermasturbation a sin.

We are not speaking of obstacles to daily routine.
We are speaking of sinful activities as set forth in the religious texts.
Are you sure Islam does consider masturbation "pure", for men and women alike?

We are not wondering how harmful to the individual is indulging in adult fantasies.
We are wondering whether religions might consider this forum, and the activities it shows and describes, unacceptable by the letter of the religious law.

I don't know whyever Chameleon raised the question.
At any rate, my answer is "probably yes, they'd consider it unacceptable".

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I made a semi-relevant and read thread! YAY!

Thank you for all the insight, you guys!

Any time a thread like this has the opportunity to grow away from it's inherently political undertones without them having to be discussed is a good thing and I'm glad to have helped make that possible here.

Otherwise, it would have been another typical thread where people get $hit faced, pessimistic, and onerary.

 

[TheChameleon]

I don't know whyever Chameleon raised the question.

Chameleon asks things that pop into his mind... if you notice, I don't ask many things...

Wow, that really helped my ability to sound intelligent.

No, but seriously, I was just wondering...

Not that it actually benefits me to such knowledge either way.

 

[Kalamos]

Chameleon asks things that pop into his mind... if you notice, I don't ask many things...
Wow, that really helped my ability to sound intelligent.
No, but seriously, I was just wondering...
Not that it actually benefits me to such knowledge either way.

Don't worry yourself with sins and sinners, man.
When I'm a deity myself, I'll be sure to tell my prophets not to be too straight laced with vices and things.
People are having fun, over here.
Or they are supposed to. 😉

 

[TheChameleon]

"First, an Incorporal Spirit, next, A deity...

What'll Kalamos think of next...

Hopefully a new type of cold cereal... I really need a new type of Cap'n Crunch..."

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

"You and the Cap'n make it happen!"

 

[Journia]

We are not speaking of obstacles to daily routine.
We are speaking of sinful activities as set forth in the religious texts.
Are you sure Islam does consider masturbation "pure", for men and women alike?

We are not wondering how harmful to the individual is indulging in adult fantasies.
We are wondering whether religions might consider this forum, and the activities it shows and describes, unacceptable by the letter of the religious law.

I don't know whyever Chameleon raised the question.
At any rate, my answer is "probably yes, they'd consider it unacceptable".

You know, I was just waiting for a reply like that Kalamos.
Yes, I am quite certain, after all Kalamos, I happen to be a muslim myself.

 

[Kalamos]

You know, I was just waiting for a reply like that Kalamos.
Yes, I am quite certain, after all Kalamos, I happen to be a muslim myself.

Apparently, the intraweb claims otherwise.

-> http://islamicweb.com/resources/masturbation.htm

But, hey, I'm sure that you know best. 😉

 

[Ramvoodle1]

From a former Catholic:

Why miss heaven by a little?
-Sam Kineson