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EXCLUSIVE AGREEMENTS IN THE FETISH INDUSTRY: TIME TO GROW UP, PRODUCERS!

ftkl_haha

2nd Level Yellow Feather
Joined
May 18, 2001
Messages
3,400
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I'm going to post this here, as since it's industry-related, it's sort of tickle-related.

This is another topic about which fetish industry people will be very passionate. Most will agree with what is said here. A select few will view it as a threat. Tough.

There was a time when exclusive contracts between models and producers guaranteed work and pay for models, while giving producers the chance to have girls that couldn’t be seen anywhere else. Perhaps, these agreements were even beneficial to non agency-signed models, who were in hardship or unable to find work. Now, FAR more often than not, these agreements are used to “shelve” models away from competing producers. Many times, there is no legally binding paperwork or paperwork of any kind, but the model goes along with it, fearing that she will not be able to find other work, or out of a guilt-inspired sense of loyalty. Now, in times where an enterprising model has easy access to producers and projects, of her choosing, this practice has mostly become the tool of selfish, insecure producers, who feel threatened by any who would “steal from their precious harem”.

Time to grow up, guys. These ladies don’t NEED to rely solely on you, or any of us, to get work. In fact, your attempt to lock her away in an exclusive agreement decreases her potential income and retards the growth of her fan base, thus diminishing the chances of increasing her income. Each model is her own independent business. One primary goal of any business is to make more money. An exclusive agreement tends to limit her income potential (except in very rare cases). Yes, it guarantees that she will make an agreed amount, but she will never make more (or get more exposure) because she’s not allowed to. In essence, you’ve opened a really awesome restaurant … in the middle of a desert … and booby trapped the entrance. Bravo.

As previously mentioned, this is much akin to the practice of “shelving”, wherein someone is simply signed to a company, so that the company’s competition can’t hire of them. The contracted party generally doesn’t fare nearly as well as the employer. In layman’s terms, this is a total bitch move, and there are still some fetish producers, who cling to this antiquated, career-paralyzing practice.

Make no mistake, ladies, these producers do NOT care about your career nor that of any of the models they employ. And often, by the time these exclusive agreements expire, most of the producers who would have been interested in hiring you, will treat you like a leper. No one wants to hire a model, who could sell out to the highest bidder, at any moment. It makes you a risky investment, especially for fan requests and custom orders, amidst a sea of much safer (and probably more experienced) candidates.

Today, there are a myriad of adult entertainment producers and models and thanks to the internet, it should be easy for anyone (model or producer) to make contacts and find work … as long as you’re not opposed to putting in the effort. For models, being seen on more sites means that more people will see them, thus growing their fan base, if they’re well-received. Many (insecure) producers may argue that being seen on multiple sites will lead to a model being overexposed. Wrong. I’ll argue that it’s PRODUCERS who often overexpose models, by not paying attention to their competitors and colleagues. They rush to release content, with certain models, in a “me first” mad dash, like a classroom full of kids, trying to jump on the last piece of candy.

This is an absurd practice, as any producer, worth their salt should have at least a month’s worth of content in-the-can. My guess is that we’ve all done this, at some point, but some of us have learned from our mistakes. Don’t blame an enterprising model for your ineptitude at scheduling your releases. Producers have to do their market homework, too. At the very least, check the recent releases, within your own category/genre.

Models should work with whomever they feel will help achieve their occupational goals, while providing them with paying (and hopefully enjoyable) work. More work, more pay, more fun. Pretty worthwhile endeavor, I’d say. So, let’s support it! Don’t lock your talent away. Unless, you’re offering a six-figure income, health care and a W-2 (NOT a 1099), you CAN’T tend to her every employment need, so get over it … and get over yourself.

Currently, the producers of Fetish Media Interactive employ countermeasures that protect enterprising models from these practices, without limiting any of their options. Time for adults to start running the fetish industry.
 
I agree... i get tired seeing models shelved or never used again. Of course, that can also mean that some models may 'retire' early or whatever, but hey.... the way i see it, and what I see, is most if not all producers offer a different angle and offer something different in their videos.

For example, (and this is just me and how I interpret and view...) I go to Czecktickling for hot babes getting full naked tickles, TickleAbuse for both /m and /f tickling, plus awesome restraining devices and cute & fun tickling, TicklingFromBoston for different foot tickling techniques and upper body action and UK tickling for foot tickle techniques, and shoes/ socks/ nylons to bare stuff.

Each producer offers something different in my eyes, and I'm always intrigued to see what one could do with another model if they could switch over agencies. It annoys me to see so many with so much potential shelved to be brought out at various times. For example, last year early on there was a TA series called TickleAbuseX. In it, a girl called Danielle (or something similar) starred in a video called 'Gorgeous on her back'. Where is she now? I thought she was the cutest, bubbliest, happy ticklee with possibly the best pair of feet I've ever seen! 😀 But hey, just my opinion.

Sorry if I've rambled or whatever, but hey, just thought I'd chime in there 😉.

And btw... feel free to inbox me the answer to this question... any of you's know what happens to these models after they retire... like... what else do they do with themselves? Merely curious is all.
 
Int'erestin'' peek behind the curtain, Tk, int'erestin'. 😵
 
This is interesting to hear about the business side of things regarding adult entertainment. This has always been a fascinating topic, for me, but it seems like something some just don't wanna discuss, for whatever reason. I'm also baffled that some people would treat models like some businesses buying patents for things they don't want released. :shock:

I'm also kinda surprised about the non-compete thing, because I would speculate that in fetish work, the customer-base would quickly get bored with any, one model in a short time, but I'm no expert. Not to mention, there's countless porn stars with recognizable names and significant fanbases that would discount my hypothesis.
 
Hey FTKL, I had just started a thread asking a similar question!

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showth...inely-ticklish-girl-then-never-hire-her-again

I read your whole post (Yes, some people DO that!!!!) and had a lot of questions, basically, what are the details?

Which models are you talking about?
Did you try to hire a model and the producer wouldn't give you the info, or she said she couldn't because of her "contract?"
Is this happening more of the these days, or was it always the case?

I agreed with what you said - unless a producer is crazy rich and the model can afford this, which, hearing the producers claim how poor they are, make no money or negative profits, I assume
there are no rich producers out there, unless they're actually lying and ARE making money.....

Big time actors do this, are under contracts with studios, but 1.) they're making MILLIONS of dollars, and 2.) the movie they are working on take MONTHS to shoot, so this makes sense in the movie world - You sign Robert Downey Jr. to a nine picture Marvel movie deal, because if he takes on too many other movies, his schedule gets all screwed up and they can't make Avengers 2 and Iron Man 3 on schedule.

But working on a tickle video is by the hour or day. A model could conceivably work with 7 producers in the span of ONE WEEK. (Making a lot of money, of course, and
life on Earth is about trying to do what you want to do, and make much money from it if you can.)
 
Thank you so much for the insightful statement.
 
Hey FTKL, I had just started a thread asking a similar question!

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showth...inely-ticklish-girl-then-never-hire-her-again

I read your whole post (Yes, some people DO that!!!!) and had a lot of questions, basically, what are the details?

Which models are you talking about?
Did you try to hire a model and the producer wouldn't give you the info, or she said she couldn't because of her "contract?"
Is this happening more of the these days, or was it always the case?

I agreed with what you said - unless a producer is crazy rich and the model can afford this, which, hearing the producers claim how poor they are, make no money or negative profits, I assume
there are no rich producers out there, unless they're actually lying and ARE making money.....

Big time actors do this, are under contracts with studios, but 1.) they're making MILLIONS of dollars, and 2.) the movie they are working on take MONTHS to shoot, so this makes sense in the movie world - You sign Robert Downey Jr. to a nine picture Marvel movie deal, because if he takes on too many other movies, his schedule gets all screwed up and they can't make Avengers 2 and Iron Man 3 on schedule.

But working on a tickle video is by the hour or day. A model could conceivably work with 7 producers in the span of ONE WEEK. (Making a lot of money, of course, and
life on Earth is about trying to do what you want to do, and make much money from it if you can.)

Thank you, mabus and to everyone who has replied.

I could say which models and producers this is about, but it would be a breach of professional integrity to do so, in a public forum. Suffice to say, that this article and the aforementioned countermeasures were spawned by more than one conversation with models, who were blacklisted by certain producers, for nothing more than shooting with producers other than the ones who "discovered" them. These producers allowed themselves to get butthurt, because "their" girl shot with someone else, within their genre.

Mind you, these models had no pre-existing agreements of exclusivity, but these producers act as if they do or worse, try to impose one, after the fact. God forbid a model get more work for herself. And mabus is right about another thing: This ISN'T Hollywood or professional sports. No fetish producer is hauling in comparable profit, to those trades ... and not many are taking out taxes or offering benefits, so there are those things that the model must consider. There are isolated cases where a model is well squared away with one of these agreements, but I assure you the tickling genre isn't the garden spot for it.

I haven't yet been "blocked" by one these agreements and the fact is any model who's in one would likely remain off my radar, even at the end of the contract. Not interested in anyone willing to take themselves off the market, in such a manner. It puts the business at high-risk for any custom orders or continuing series, which would call for the return of that particular model. It's a volatile market, as is, without adding that element. And frankly, I encourage the models who work with me to work with other producers and even recommend them to colleagues within the genre. I've referred models to Tickle Abuse, Shy and Wild, Tickle Intensive, and Tickle Cuties and my store is doing just fine, thank you. (Hell, I've even taken the #1 spot from time to time.) And when those models come back to my studio, they have more experience, to bring to the table ... which benefits me as well as them.

To answer the "was it always the case" question: I think it was, but that was before the internet and the advent of social media networks made it easier for models to find work and harder for producers to hide their little "golden nuggets". I've never felt the need to hide "my" models, because I've been on the talent side of things in the mainstream industry. I know what it's like to need to find as much work as you can get. And as I said before, these ladies don't NEED any single producer to "manage" them. They can make more without our interference ... and the industry can benefit from it. Apparently, some of my colleagues don't like the thought of that. Control issues and fear of competition, I guess. Makes me wonder what they think of models, who travel the country, freelance, without any agency assistance.

Times have changed. We need to change with them or this industry won't grow. Traveling, as a producer, has taught me that.
 
I have several exclusive models, all are happy and definitely well compensated, and of course they can leave at any time they think it isnt working out. Bottom line is that I run a business, nothing personal, I am the most successful at it for a reason.

Its a bit naive to think that exclusivity is wrong. If it works for some models and producers, then it works. I dont recall any producer contacting me ever about a potential model, other than Tay and Sergio from Body and Sole. I also had a discussion with Rook's Media (what up brother!) years ago about Lo Lo when she moved to NYC. I have encountered many producers going behind my back and trying to get my models when all they had to do is ask me like a gentleman and I would be glad to work something out. But in the end, I am not angry about it, its the business of fetish, you are doing it to make some money like every other fetish producer is otherwise you, I, any producer wouldn't be selling our videos. I try not to take anything personally, though I am competitive by nature and certainly feel no need to apologize for that.

In the end if a producer has a model I like and I cannot book her because she is exclusive to him/her for tickling, I dont get pissed at the producer, I get pissed at myself for not finding her first. An exclusive arrangement often wont benefit both parties long term, though it has for Tasha, Brooke, Nikki and others on my site. Short term arrangements often do, that is if the producer can afford to give the work a model would otherwise get if he/she were free to work with any and all tickling producers. In NYC it is different, we dont have a dozen producers in a concentrated area, there are only a handful. If a model doesnt want to travel, exclusivity makes sense.

I think if producers reached out to each other more often we would see more cooperation but I think exclusivity often brings more models into tickling we haven't seen before, it makes producers hustle a little more to find new faces. There are exceptions, but generally I do not like to see the same model over and over on every site.
 
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OP, that's a thoughtful post, but I think it oversimplifies a complex topic. Also, I really don't think the issue of exclusivity contracts has much unique about it to a video producer, versus any other industry. And no blanket conclusion of "they are all bad" or "they are all fine" really works.

Take two extreme examples. Producer offers model a choice. $ with no exclusivity obligation, or a larger $ amount if she agrees not to go anywhere else for 3 months (so that when producer does the clip, the competitor's clip of the same person won't cut into the initial sales, which I assume are a substantial % of the overall sales). Would anyone really say that there is something wrong with that?

Take another. Model, not the brightest bulb and desperate to get a first clip, but clearly beautiful and talented, foolishly signs an agreement never to do a clip for anyone else. Would anyone really say that's ok?
 
There are no contracts with me, just a handshake. Nothing keeps a model around better than treating her properly, and paying her appropriately of course.
 
I have to agree, in part, with my competitor TA on this one. I used to think maybe EA was the way to go but I certainly don't believe that now unless we're talking about someone who's a fundamental part of your operation that you've invested a lot of resources in. Why should a competitor get that benefit? They shouldn't! Of course, if your going to do that for a specific model you do need to take care of them otherwise that's not fair either.

I wish UK as based closer to here because I would gladly refer any models I worked with to him in a heartbeat without any reservation, but I don't see any of them going to the UK for a few laughs, haha 🙂.

I agree with TA that the held view is a bit naive as this is a business first and foremost, let's not forget that. You protect your investment but I don't think EA is the way to go with that. I would gladly help a model find more tickle work but there's only a few companies I would trust to do that with.
 
Exclusivity agreements are a common capitalist practice designed to aid in the acquisition of profit which provides security in the continuation of further business transactions. They are often temporally finite. More so, I imagine, in this medium.

The toughest of noogies to those who cannot cope with the laws of the concrete jungle.

R
 
Model release forms are not exclusive contracts; the model is giving you permission to sell their clips, not agreeing to work with you again. The only time, in fact, I had a model agree to something exclusively, was with our own kj.pixie. And that was only because she hadn't been a 'ler yet and we mutually agreed she would make her debut as such at the first TickleMania. Other than that, she was free to 'lee for whomever she wanted and as often as she wanted.

I do not, nor can I afford to, lock up a model to work solely for PoPro. If there are other producers who can, or if one of my models wants to work for someone or even everyone else, then more power to ya'!
 
I have several exclusive models, all are happy and definitely well compensated, and of course they can leave at any time they think it isnt working out. Bottom line is that I run a business, nothing personal, I am the most successful at it for a reason.

Its a bit naive to think that exclusivity is wrong. If it works for some models and producers, then it works. I dont recall any producer contacting me ever about a potential model, other than Tay and Sergio from Body and Sole. I also had a discussion with Rook's Media (what up brother!) years ago about Lo Lo when she moved to NYC. I have encountered many producers going behind my back and trying to get my models when all they had to do is ask me like a gentleman and I would be glad to work something out. But in the end, I am not angry about it, its the business of fetish, you are doing it to make some money like every other fetish producer is otherwise you, I, any producer wouldn't be selling our videos. I try not to take anything personally, though I am competitive by nature and certainly feel no need to apologize for that.

In the end if a producer has a model I like and I cannot book her because she is exclusive to him/her for tickling, I dont get pissed at the producer, I get pissed at myself for not finding her first. An exclusive arrangement often wont benefit both parties long term, though it has for Tasha, Brooke, Nikki and others on my site. Short term arrangements often do, that is if the producer can afford to give the work a model would otherwise get if he/she were free to work with any and all tickling producers. In NYC it is different, we dont have a dozen producers in a concentrated area, there are only a handful. If a model doesnt want to travel, exclusivity makes sense.

I think if producers reached out to each other more often we would see more cooperation but I think exclusivity often brings more models into tickling we haven't seen before, it makes producers hustle a little more to find new faces. There are exceptions, but generally I do not like to see the same model over and over on every site.

I agree with some of what you say, but see other parts differently.

Like me, I imagine most others can see that you've treated Brooke and Tasha very well. They've stayed with you and deliver value for years. Giving them exclusive contracts (written, oral or tacit) provides you and them stability and it's not at the expense of others. I can only commend that.

There are two case scenarios where I find the use of exclusive agreements selfish and not in the interest of the model;

1. A producer is engaged in working with a model. Another producer decides that she is so great that he not only wants to shoot her (which would of course be fine), but he wants to put her under exclusive contract so that the producer now shooting her (and all other producers) can't shoot her any more. Now, that's BS that I will always work to spank and shut down. To protect against this abusive use of exclusive contracting, we are working on a protective measure to shield from such carnivorous loss.

2. A model has shot with a producer, then shoots with another producer. The first producer either offers her an exclusive contract to shoot with only him or black-lists her to stop shooting her.

While we are all engaged in business, understanding that (1) both models and producers are engaged in business (and not just the producers) and that (2) producers don't own models - is essential as a basis for conducting fair and reasonable business.

I've personally had experiences with producers trying to block models (at the very moment that the model walking into my house) from shooting with me. Mind you, models they had never once shot. Now, you know there's no paint you can put on THAT BS to make it not stink.

I've also experienced another producer threatening to put models I shoot frequently under exclusive contract to take them out of my reach.

On the flip side, I know a couple of models under very reasonable and lucrative contracts that pay then in the mid-five figure range and don't impede their ability to shoot fetish.

I've actually worked both as a client and as a subject matter expert in legal cases focused on Housing (legal term of art for exclusive contracting). So I don't come at this with a simplistic view of exclusive contracts being good or bad. I am not a lawyer.

I think that our behavior as producers and our sense of not only being competitive, but being reasonable to the models and other producers will serve us best in the short and long term.

Many producers can atest to the fact that I willingly and very freely share model info and assist to get them access to models. I have done this for years. While some producers are worried about models working with other producers, I am mindful of the fact that in tickle videos, it is the combination of the tickler and the ticklee that makes the produce unique and appealing. Also, if the model can earn more, she is less likely to get discouraged and leave the industry.

After helping one producer, I asked him for a model contact and he told me that he would rather not and that there was only one other producer he would share such info with. The punch line is that his store is not even in the top 50 tickling stores. As a good person, I should just pay for his dam meds.

As for asking permission to shoot models, there is no reason any producer should or would do that, unless we have a reason to know that the model is under exclusive contract. I will never contact a producer and ask "can I please have your blessing to shoot that hottie you shot", unless I have been notified that she is under an exclusive agreement with you. If you let me know that she is under an exclusive contract, and I want to shoot her, I will seek you permission and assistance.

Being fair also at times requires being informed. We need to know who is under exclusive contract so that we can show the appropriate respect when seeking to book her.

Tommy, you're a very hard working man and I think we can all appreciate you, your effort and your ethic in general.

The value of this discussion and this thread is that the conversation can better inform us of how many of us think on the issue. It's much better than imagining what someone is thinking as we try to evaluate their actions.

My view of the entire industry is that we're a community. I view no store as my competitor. I view my best performance as the thing I want to beat.

JD
 
Luckily, I have not experienced such practices.

I've yet to be approached about the contact of any of the models that I have shot with. When I do, I'll gladly share their contact information. In a supply a demand stand point, I wouldn't have a model in a E.A because eventually if you keep using them the fans will become tired of the same girl in your store. It's not a matter of if it will happen, it's when it will happen.

I wouldn't get offended if a model is under a E.A because that's her choice to sign it. I don't count verbal agreements, when it's taken up in court that's not a viable form of evidence. Before she signs the paper work, she should have been well informed of the agreement. No one put her at gun point to sign it.

I say, we all have a friendly competition against each other. Some take the competition more seriously than others. I've gotten shrugged off by some of the producers who responded to this thread. Which is fine and I don't take an offense to it, just don't expect the same courtesy if they need my help.

If I can't work with the model because another company signed her, fine. I just say okay, thanks for letting me know, and move on.
 
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If I was producing videos right now, I would definitely be looking for exclusive deals with models. How is a producer supposed to set themselves apart if every girl is just turning up in every producers videos.
 
If I was producing videos right now, I would definitely be looking for exclusive deals with models. How is a producer supposed to set themselves apart if every girl is just turning up in every producers videos.

You may not see this but every producer has a distinct style of shooting. You can have the hottest, most ticklish models. But if you aren't consistent, and your quality and angles suck. You're still not going to make money no matter how many exclusive models you contract.
 
If I was producing videos right now, I would definitely be looking for exclusive deals with models. How is a producer supposed to set themselves apart if every girl is just turning up in every producers videos.

I would put forth that while, yes, a popular model with gravitas is certainly a factor in success, ultimately it is the skill of the producer that comes into play. While some fans might follow a particular model around from one producer to another, ultimately I believe brand loyalty is based on the flavor and quality of production. In fact, many of my favorites are based on expected quality and flavor of the producer and they mostly use unknowns.
 
I would put forth that while, yes, a popular model with gravitas is certainly a factor in success, ultimately it is the skill of the producer that comes into play. While some fans might follow a particular model around from one producer to another, ultimately I believe brand loyalty is based on the flavor and quality of production. In fact, many of my favorites are based on expected quality and flavor of the producer and they mostly use unknowns.

VERY true. I also have to quote James Darke's input: "There are two case scenarios where I find the use of exclusive agreements selfish and not in the interest of the model; 1. A producer is engaged in working with a model. Another producer decides that she is so great that he not only wants to shoot her (which would of course be fine), but he wants to put her under exclusive contract so that the producer now shooting her (and all other producers) can't shoot her any more. Now, that's BS that I will always work to spank and shut down. To protect against this abusive use of exclusive contracting, we are working on a protective measure to shield from such carnivorous loss.

2. A model has shot with a producer, then shoots with another producer. The first producer either offers her an exclusive contract to shoot with only him or black-lists her to stop shooting her.

While we are all engaged in business, understanding that (1) both models and producers are engaged in business (and not just the producers) and that (2) producers don't own models - is essential as a basis for conducting fair and reasonable business.

I've personally had experiences with producers trying to block models (at the very moment that the model walking into my house) from shooting with me. Mind you, models they had never once shot. Now, you know there's no paint you can put on THAT BS to make it not stink.

As for asking permission to shoot models, there is no reason any producer should or would do that, unless we have a reason to know that the model is under exclusive contract. I will never contact a producer and ask 'can I please have your blessing to shoot that hottie you shot', unless I have been notified that she is under an exclusive agreement with you. If you let me know that she is under an exclusive contract, and I want to shoot her, I will seek you permission and assistance."

These are things that spawned my original posting, if that was not already made clear. Point #2, and the whole "permission" thing especially.

Never said all EAs are bad, and more than anything, I've said that I'm on the side of the models. Without them and the fans, we have no business to protect.

As for who's crying, well ... when I receive a phone call from a model who tells me that another producer, with whom she's shot has fired her, blacklisted her or canceled a shoot with her, just because she shot with me, who's the butt-hurt party, then? Especially, when the producer who's "punishing" her had no EA with her. It's happened more than once. That is truly the picture of one who cannot cope with the laws of the concrete jungle.

Oh well. I'm sure this will be debated further and no one's mind will change about any of it. Knew that even before I wrote it. That was not my purpose for "pulling back the curtain" and shining a light on things. The individuals who have replied were, primarily, the ones I expected and their expressed viewpoints have also fallen in line with my expectations. My intent was to both share and gather information and insight on the matter. This thread has accomplished everything I intended and more. Thank you all. You've been very helpful.
 
Its the producers right to not shoot with a model again, or ever, if she/he has shot with their competitors and the producer feels it has / will hurt their sales (or otherwise). Who is the model to go crying to you about being blacklisted by them, and for you to take up some cause about it - why do you even care if a producer "blacklists" a model from working together with them again? I have to assume that not all producers ( though I think a minute % ) are only interested in touching women's feet - I would take it some actually care about being able to make sales and a decent profit, and would see it as a bad investment to shoot with models that are shooting the exact same content with other producers.

The only real "cause" I see here is the one that my colleagues have cited repeatedly ... the protection of my business. Again, thank you.
 
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