Florida's election system still not fixed!

[Deleted member 2452]

dvnc, i'll concede the pal point...IF

you can show me where you've ever used it here on the tmf, as a friendly term. also it was the way you used it, in the context that you used it, and you yourself admited you were angery at what you thought was a slight to your family's involvment in viet nam, republic of.
yes i want to remain on friendly terms with you, and most others here.
no you stil don't get it! bush went to the u.s. supreme court to have them block the illeagle actions of the florida supreme court. it was the fl. supreme courts liberal politics that caused them to break the fl. election laws. btw, my memory is very good, i remember watching the goings on in the 2000 election, on t.v.. at the clinic where i worked, the t.v. was on one news channel or another for the entire time the drama was played out. so i don't need to look up what some pundit wrote about it, i saw it happen live!
trust me, biggles doesn't mean his tag line as anything but an insult. if i'm wrong, why doesn't he say so? also as i have taught my kids, if you know that you are doing something that hurts another, then don't do it! he has knocked america relentlessly, and one time that i mentioned a draw back of ausralian life, and politics, i was jumped on by a moderator and told to behave. now that's not right!
yes i appologised about how i spoke of the biggles situation earlier in this thread, but that was for your benifit dvnc. it's like the old joke, if 10 people tell you you're drunk, lay down. i didn't really see where i was that bad, but i took your word for it, and acted like a gentleman.
i do enjoy a good political debate, and am active in local politics. but i have never understood the liberal mind, it truely fasinates me how it works.
i look forward to continuing our talks.
steve

 

[BigJim]

I KNOW I'm making a mistake by joining in this conversation, but there is a part of me that just can't resist any sort of international debate.

Steve, apart from going on past conversations with Biggles; are you reading his mind or what? You've already made the mistake of saying Dave was using the word "pal" in a hostile way. (And why the hell does he have to prove previous non-hostile use of it to prove that it wasn't so in this case? 😕 😕 😕 )Why then does he have had to have used a quote from Dubya in an insulting way? From what I can tell (and admittdedly I'm no psychologist) the guy just loves ripping the piss out of politicians, full stop. He's done it to many different nations and political persuasions too; the guy is as far from biased as I am from being a Bin-Laden supporter. (What do you call an arab with two black eyes? Bin-Twatted!) Perhaps he doesn't say so (as you'd invite him to) because he just can't be bothered with something so trivial.

And why is it such an offence to make fun of a country's leader? Lawks-a-lawdy that sort of thing makes the world go round. In the pages of Punch, it's refered to as Satirical-Diplomacy.

I think sometimes that patriotism can go too far (and I'm not just refering to this case, but many others) and can lead down the dark alley of of head-in-sand disease. I myself am not a fan of Dubya's politics, although I love his stand up comedy routine. I'm no liberal when it comes to foreign and home policy, but Dubya's rate of executions while he was governer of Texas was something to behold. That's something else that someone was pissed off at me for; discussing whether to use the death penalty in America when I wasn't one myself. I think it was Talons who took me to task on that occasion.

If you were so offended at Biggles remarks, why don't you fire some back about Aussie politics? Knowing the bloody-minded bugger as I do (right Biggles? 😉 ) he'll be more than happy to fill up three pages with posts about any topic you can name. What's more, he'll use punctuation too!

 

[dvnc]

Re: dvnc, i'll concede the pal point...IF

Good grief, Steve! Wit' over 1500 posts, over 4 slots, wit' a majority being to users that didn't know me before the TMF, findin' where I used "pal" wit' anyone would be a trick. Findin' it in ANY context here would be challengin'. If I spot such, though, I'll forward ya a link.

Let's digress further, and look at exactly what I said:

You also know nothing of my family's military history, so challenging me there is also a thin argument. Some of us lost parents in Nam, pal. Don't screw with me, there. Clear? Good. Like anyone wit' such history, having it challenged constitutes a gross insult. Even if you don't mean it, it still don't feel so good, y'know?

What did you say that inspired this? Dig:

a couple of points you made i'd like to rebut.
in the 2000 election (for president) the democrates tried to go to court to keep the military votes
from being counted for the first time! they, your democratic party tried to keep the votes of our
brothers, and sisters (of all political parties) from being counted. that my good sir is excreable!

Now, your statement, that I'm part of a party whose alledged activities are assumed to be attempting to prevent allowable military votes, challenges anyone disagreeing with you, and further labels them as Democrats. I don't sweat party labels. I do sweat the notion that I'd not support the US military, as an alleged Democrat. The use of "pal", repeated above for convenience, is SUPPOSED to convey familiarity, as we ARE familiar. Have been for years. Had I wished to be lowly, and bitingly slam you for a perceived slight, without knowing you mean such, I'd have used "bub", at best. Being that I'm a moderator, and should show a degree of decorum here, I'd do no worse here. Outside of here, I'd likely have been snide in some manner, were I to have been of a mind to be.

I wasn't then. I still ain't. How many do you know that would still not be, given the insistence you have that I am? That's a small number, brother. No, we're not related. It's another colloquial moniker, like "pal". Clearly, I need to rotate my colloquialisms with greater regularity.

Mind ya, if all's well on your end, I'll not sweat it. If ever I run across that specific colloquialism, outside of this thread, I'll forward ya a link.

Why Biggles didn't say anything concerning his sig line is likely 'cause I responded that I found it to be harmless. Biggles, if you're still readin', would ya mind 'fessin' up, one way or t'other, about that sig of yours?

When he does, Steve, perhaps you'll understand that this would be two people in this thread that you didn't correctly understand, and took in negative light. I meant no negative in "pal" and Biggles doesn't appear to mean anything negative in pointing out a publically-know blooper from the 2000 campaign. Given that he's a political buff, it's not surprising, if you think about it a sec.

I don't know the details of the incident to which you refer, where Aussie politics are concerned, but I don't know where moderators, here, would jump on you without cause. Some might've jumped into this, as I perceived possible insult, and you HAVE said things I've pointed out could be perceived as such. I just happen to know you from before the TMF, and know that you don't want to go steppin' on folks unknowingly. I give you this benefit of the doubt from PERSONAL knowledge. If I didn't know, I'd be obliged to point out where you're biting me and democrats in general, and take action. Such is the way of moderated boards.

It's easy to avoid moderation, and it's been available for free for over a decade. It's how we met, after all.

Jeez, another long one. Apologies to all. Skip as needed.

Back to the other digression, with the 2000 election. I saw it live, too. I worked on the comm. portion of a cable box wit' net functionality back then. Saw the whole deal. You'd made the call to ask for proof, and I've provided mine. I still see no contest to it. Only your recall, which disagrees with printed facts available. Recall is not more reliable than physical proof. That's why I got such. I do encourage you to get something proving your disagreement. It'd force me off my butt to either agree, or to counter. Both sound interesting to me.

I appreciate your desire for gentlemanly conduct, sir. Please consider this - my request for consideration of Biggles is not merely a desire to appear gentlemanly. I wished you to note that your disregarding him as uninformed of US politics was perhaps unjust. Turns out it was, and that man actually STILL wants to discuss such stuff. I respect that. I respected your apology for curtness. He, in turn, opened it up to discuss his country's politics too. The man wants to play nicely. I just wish for all to see where things can be both interesting and challenging, without always just agreeing placidly. Placidity is too traquil for constant companionship.

Learn the liberal mind, sir. Always know your potential opponents. The very worst that happens is awareness. In better moments, there's also growth.

Does this mean we're still pals?

dvnc

 

[ShiningIce]

first off I APPLAUD Biggle's comments and feelings on Bush because its ABSOLUTELY true!! and no Areenactor hes NOT MY PRESIDENT.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

dvnc, it means we're "friends"

if being friends to you means pals, then so be it, we're pals.
ok, let me try to get my mind on this; you want me to prove with online documentation that bush didn't sue to get the presidency? as al gore did.
i guess i did mean what i said about the democrates trying to keep the military votes from being counted. i sugjest that if that bothers anyone who is a member of the democrat political party, they question their party officals about it. i still am ticked off about it. see i served my country, and i never missed a vote. it would gall me to know anyone was so calus about my voting rights while i was totin a rifle gun in my countries defense. if you don't remember what i'm refering to, then look it up, but i believe you evryone remembers this from nov.2000.
my dislike of biggles goes beyond the political. if you'll all recall, he and i had a heated debate on the topic of the shriners. he tricked me into appologising for calling him *SOMETHING UNKIND*, then reneged on his promise to do the same. to me he is *NOT PLEASANT*! i know you'll have to delete that, but it felt real good to have said it!
big jim, i know you mean well, and you are welcome in any conversation i have, i am honored to call you a friend.
steve

*starred edits by dvnc. Steve, that was disrespectful to Biggles, AND to me, forcing me to do an edit*

 

[Deleted member 2452]

first off I APPLAUD Biggle's comments and feelings on Bush because its ABSOLUTELY true!! and no Areenactor hes NOT MY PRESIDENT.

well boy-o, it may smack of orwells 1984, but i forwarded a copy of that statement to a guy i know in military intel. good luck gettin in now, lol
steve

 

[BigJim]

Re: dvnc, it means we're "friends"

big jim, i know you mean well, and you are welcome in any conversation i have, i am honored to call you a friend.
steve

Likewise Steve, even if you do disagree with me.

Going off on another well meaning tangent here, but when Biggles made that remark about secret societies (still havn't managed to locate my local lodge 🙁 ) he didn't insult every member of them. For devil's advocate's sake, if you assume for a moment that Masons etc. WERE into conspiracies big time, then you could'nt say that the same applied to every member of them. If your dad or grandad was a 3rd degree mason, then he's probably the master of his local lodge.(The first three degrees are refered to as the "Blue Degrees" and comprise about 95% of all members of Freemasonry.) If his lodge is in the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, then there's another 30 degrees above him (33rd degree-ers are usually world leaders and senior dignitaries) and yet another 13 degrees above that. (The alleged Illuminati ranks. Please no references to the Tomb Raider movie here guys, that was such a crap film! 😡 ) Saying that your father/grandfather would be involved in any global conspiracy, is like saying that a platoon sergeant was responsible for an entire army invading a country.

 

[dvnc]

Re: dvnc, it means we're "friends"

Prove, by some medium beyond personal recall, that Bush didn't do as the article I found SAYS he did. Again, here's MY proof he DID file suit, in the Supreme Court, even:
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Bush-Supreme-Court.htm
Quote - "George W. Bush called on the U.S. Supreme Court to halt the vote counting in Florida altogether."
If you're correct, there must be proof.

Like most of the whole country, I didn't dig that the military vote submission was questioned at all, but agreed that it WAS and IS protocol for timely submissions. That was also handled without further debate, given what I've reread in the last few days. I think I see where this election held personal angst for you, in the perceived mistreatment of the armed forces. You won't find many Americans who thought that such tact was a wise route, which is why the politicians quickly backed off of it, likely.

*sigh* I did have to delete your post's insults, Steve. Please don't do them again. I've obviously left the edited version there. If you don't care to interact with Biggles, please don't. I expect better from an grown and educated man in a medical profession, like you.

dvnc

 

[shark]

Requested explanation

It seems that I have been asked to explain my actions.Fine,let's start here:

1...This thread was started as a FLORIDA election thread.I hardly consider that as international.

2...Given the past posts of Big Jim and Biggles,I have seen both will happily post derogatory and/or slighting remarks.This is especially noticeable when the party in question has no idea what they are talking about.I have brought up the topic of foreign
(read non-US citizen) persons misunderstanding the US and its people
in the past.I don't care if you do have remarks,but at least know what the hell you're talking about first.I have taken shots at others in the past,but at least I did know what I was talking about.

3...International forum or not,any person here can disagree with posts from another.Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see no obligation,of any kind,on anyone's part,or as a part of the forum,to recognize or validate anyone's opinion.

4...Jim,you were the one who personally called me on this,so I'll direct this to you.You personally admitted to being free with shots at the US.That's fine,some are accurate.Some others have shown a major misunderstanding on your part,and I have also seen this in foreign persons that I have met.At least you don't come over,enjoy the benefits,and bitch,whine,and take shots the whole while.Be that as it may,you are entitled to an opinion.If there is ANY moderator who can show me an obligation on anyone's part to acknowledge,validate,or otherwise lend credence to another's opinion,please do.I imagine there will be a few telling me what to do with mine,but I can live with that.

5...Rather than go the route of the possible flamebait,I opted for the "mind your own business" approach.It's an accurate assessment of my opinion on this matter and obviously not going to be edited.

Does this post suffice as an explanation?

 

[Dave2112]

First off, just to address the title of this thread "Florida's Election system still not fixed", All I can say is Yes It Is...Fixed. 'Nuff said on that.

This whole thread is starting to become yet another TMF personal arguement page. The points are being rehashed into unrecognizable goo. There are always going to be strongly-held beliefs one way or the other in a two-party system. We've proven time and time again that these political discussions tend to become 5-page slamfests after awhile. And why does it seem that whenever a political discussion is started, it almost always turns into a military one? The military is not a branch of government and shouldn't be used as a metaphorical argueing point every time one of these Donkey vs. Elephant threads comes up.

Let's get this back on topic, it's starting to outlive its usefulness.

 

[BigJim]

Re: Requested explanation

It seems that I have been asked to explain my actions.Fine,let's start here:

1...This thread was started as a FLORIDA election thread.I hardly consider that as international.

2...Given the past posts of Big Jim and Biggles,I have seen both will happily post derogatory and/or slighting remarks.This is especially noticeable when the party in question has no idea what they are talking about.I have brought up the topic of foreign
(read non-US citizen) persons misunderstanding the US and its people
in the past.I don't care if you do have remarks,but at least know what the hell you're talking about first.I have taken shots at others in the past,but at least I did know what I was talking about.

3...International forum or not,any person here can disagree with posts from another.Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see no obligation,of any kind,on anyone's part,or as a part of the forum,to recognize or validate anyone's opinion.

4...Jim,you were the one who personally called me on this,so I'll direct this to you.You personally admitted to being free with shots at the US.That's fine,some are accurate.Some others have shown a major misunderstanding on your part,and I have also seen this in foreign persons that I have met.At least you don't come over,enjoy the benefits,and bitch,whine,and take shots the whole while.Be that as it may,you are entitled to an opinion.If there is ANY moderator who can show me an obligation on anyone's part to acknowledge,validate,or otherwise lend credence to another's opinion,please do.I imagine there will be a few telling me what to do with mine,but I can live with that.

5...Rather than go the route of the possible flamebait,I opted for the "mind your own business" approach.It's an accurate assessment of my opinion on this matter and obviously not going to be edited.

Does this post suffice as an explanation?

You're right Shark, I can be free with my shots. But I'm also fulsome with my praise of the US. I've said several times that I wish to God I HAD been born there.

I never asked anyone to validiate, agree with or endorse my opinions though. All I asked was the right to give them and not get the "you're a foreigner, so bugger of!" line thrown at me.

In all seriousness, if I've made a short-sighted error, then feel free to pull me up on it. I'm not such an arrogant git that I think I know everything about everything. You didn't mention what exactly I'd said that showed a misunderstanding on my part. If you tell me, I can promise you and anyone, that I'll listen to and respect your point of view. I can't promise that I'd come round to your point of view, but I can promise that I'll read and digest what you have to say to the fullest.

As for regional discussion, does the act that this started out as a discussion on the Florida electoral ballot mean that only Floridians should be able to take part? I've seen people from all over the US chip into this discussion, so is that part of your point?

 

[R. Davis]

ARE THE FLORIDA ELECTION OFFICIALS EVER GOING TO GET IT RIGHT? THE U.S. JUSTICE DEPT. SHOULD BE DOING SOME SERIOUS INVESTIGATING. TWO THINGS ARE CONSTANT IN AMERICAN POLITICS(DEMOCRATS versus REPUBLICANS)AND(THE AMERICAN PEOPLE GETTING THE SHORT END OF THE STICK)!

 

[amk714]

You're right Dave

When I started this thread, I wanted to see how people would react to the news that Florida is still having problems with its elections. I know politics is divisive, but I never anticipated just how passionate most of the replies would be. If I have opened any old wounds, I am truly sorry for that. If any moderator wants to close this thread, feel free. This will be my last reply in this thread. Standing up for what you believe in is cool, so I fault none of you for expressing your opinion, whatever it may be. That's all I have to say, peace, and never stop fighting for your right to be heard 🙂

 

[Biggles of 266]

This is gonna be a long one guys...

5) my problem is with biggles, not all non-americans. he is hostile to MY president, and takes any opportunity to belittle, and knock him. biggles "tag line" at the end of his posts is a good example. it is ment to make fun of pres. bush, and is taken out of context. it's continued use is offensive to me! therefore i choose not to discuss politics with him. i'll discuss the terrorist issue, and tickling, and a number of other topics with him, but not internal american politics. his bias is too evident

If it'll really make you feel better, I'll change my sig. I took the quote from a book because I thought it was funny. I love to see important and respected people actually slip up a little bit and appear just as human as the rest of us.

Biggles is just as respectable, and even opened debate on his own country. He's just into politics. Guys like him are usually better debaters than pikers like me. Do please reconsider discourse with the man. I do believe you'll find him every bit the counterpoint that I am, and better.

Thanks DVNC, you're too kind to a smartarse like me. I'd love to debate with anyone, but especially Steve, about my country. I've got some problems with how the Australian government is run, and I've got some problems with how the politicians that I vote for are running the country (into the ground, and into more debt).

trust me, biggles doesn't mean his tag line as anything but an insult. if i'm wrong, why doesn't he say so? also as i have taught my kids, if you know that you are doing something that hurts another, then don't do it! he has knocked america relentlessly, and one time that i mentioned a draw back of ausralian life, and politics, i was jumped on by a moderator and told to behave. now that's not right!

I don't mean it as an insult, it's just there as a joke. Believe me, as soon as John Howard says something stupid and as funny as the quote I have their now, it'll be going on the sig! 😀
I know I poke fun at America sometimes, but the reason I do so is because there aren't enough Australians here to get any jokes I'd make about my own country. If I make a joke about GWB, probably 90% of the members will get it. They might laugh, cry, vomit, fall over, or be offended, but if I make a reference to the hot-potato leadership of the Australian Democrats, 2 or 3 of us will understand.
It's a drawback to living down here, all the interesting discussion goes on while I'm asleep.

From what I can tell (and admittdedly I'm no psychologist) the guy just loves ripping the piss out of politicians, full stop. He's done it to many different nations and political persuasions too; the guy is as far from biased as I am from being a Bin-Laden supporter. (What do you call an arab with two black eyes? Bin-Twatted!) Perhaps he doesn't say so (as you'd invite him to) because he just can't be bothered with something so trivial

Hey Jim, good to see ya. You're exactly right. It's not just coz I don't like Dubya, I'm just talking to the largest audience.

I hereby invite you all to take your best shot at Australian politicians and the government that my country has elected.

If you were so offended at Biggles remarks, why don't you fire some back about Aussie politics? Knowing the bloody-minded bugger as I do (right Biggles?) he'll be more than happy to fill up three pages with posts about any topic you can name. What's more, he'll use punctuation too!

Let's hear some good lines about Howard, Crean, Abbott, Watkins and Ruddock. Especially Ruddock. I hate that guy... Bloody-minded eh? 😉 I can't help the punctuation thing! It's an inbuilt gene, and I'll turn to stone if I leave a comma unplaced.

Why Biggles didn't say anything concerning his sig line is likely 'cause I responded that I found it to be harmless. Biggles, if you're still readin', would ya mind 'fessin' up, one way or t'other, about that sig of yours?

See above pal 🙂. I didn't know it was offending anyone until Steve mentioned it a couple of posts ago. I honestly thought it was funny, but I'm changing it.

see i served my country, and i never missed a vote

I'm glad to hear it Steve. Nothing pisses me off quite as much as people who complain about the government all the time, but never actually bother to vote, campaign for or support their chosen party.

then reneged on his promise to do the same

I can't actually remember promising anything, but then I do forget things in my old age.

2...Given the past posts of Big Jim and Biggles,I have seen both will happily post derogatory and/or slighting remarks.

Jim and I enjoy the fine old english tradition of taking the piss, and will post slighting remarks on request and receipt of a cheque for $5, addressed to the BigJim and Biggles 'Rent Us Some Strippers' fund.

every time one of these Donkey vs. Elephant threads comes up

Why do the political parties in the US use Donkeys and Elephants as their mascots? We don't have mascots in this country, and I think we're all the poorer for it.


There we go, all done. I hope I've answered all your questions and made my points as best I can. This has been fun, we should all do this again sometime soon. And once more...


I hereby invite one and all to take shots at the government of my country. The funnier the better. The best jokes will be rewarded with a genuine solid-gold $1 coin. rewards will not be honoured


lots of love and kisses,

Biggles of Two Sixty Six

 

[ShiningIce]

well boy-o, it may smack of orwells 1984, but i forwarded a copy of that statement to a guy i know in military intel. good luck gettin in now, lol

OOOH I'm shaking in my boots. For a man in his early sixties not very mature.......grow up. 🙄

 

[Biggles of 266]

Hey Ice, please drop me an email at: [email protected]

Biggles

 

[ShiningIce]

E-mail sent.

 

[kurchatovium]

This thread is getting a little too hot, how we got from Florida elections to jokes about Australian politicians I am not quite certain. I wish I knew some jokes about Australian politicians I wouldn't mind collecting some gold coins. How about jokes about Paul Hogan do they count? Is he like a Senator now or something? Was that a joke? Do I get a dollar? Anyway I digress. Look life is too short to get so heated up over this junk. Its Ok to discuss it but don't bust a jugular over it. My Aunt and I disagree on almost every political issue yet we still always manage to get along great. Theres a lesson in there somewhere.

 

[Biggles of 266]

What Paul Hogan is is very very rich. He's got a young wife and slightly younger baby and they both live in California.

I've changed my mind, the funniest post about the Australian government will actually get a genuine Australian dollar posted to them.

Biggles

 

[dvnc]

LOL! Gentlemen, I'll give one of you a genuine Marvel Comics bonus no-prize if you'll start another thread to continue. This one's old, tired and way off course.

Thank you, though, for an interesting thread! Does anyone have anything to say about the actual subject of this thread? If not, let's let this old dog lie, and start another.

dvnc

 

[Deleted member 2452]

thank you biggles

for changing your tag line.

steve

 

[Biggles of 266]

yeah, no worries, sorry if it offended you.

 

[BigJim]

Hey Biggles, I got a question for ya, you antipodean arse! 😀

I maker a point of never voting at elections, because all politicians disagree like buggery with each other at election time and then pull the pants off and roger the country up the duck-run at the earliest opportunity as soon as they are elected. They're all on the payroll of the same puppet-masters and all sing off the same songsheet eventually. My stance is not one of voter apathy; it's a stance of deliberate boycotting. I refuse to vote one way or the other until we actually have someone to vote for who's not a money grabbing, corrupt, powerless, arse-wipe of a criminal.

At the same time I always am very vocal about local and national politics, and never waste an opportunity to get involved with an issue I believe in. Do you think the tax pounds I pay give me the right to lambast some git who's wasting them on hopscotch lessons, for one-legged, lesbian, immigrants and tea parties for turtles? Or do you think I should shut up unless I actually put my cross down at election time?

This is a discussion I had once with Joby-Wan Kenobi. She actually had the honour of being involved in local government once, and she disagreed with me quite heavilly. What do you think?

 

[Deleted member 2452]

gee big jim

shame you only want biggles thoughts...*sniff*

steve

 

[BigJim]

Re: gee big jim

shame you only want biggles thoughts...*sniff*

steve

Hey Steve, be like and feel free to but into any of my conversations. After all, I've butted into numerous ones of yours! 😀 What are your thoughts?