Gas Prices

[Icycle]

Beautiful response there Icycle. Really.

Thank you!

But it still blows me away how we all pull up to the gas pump, swipe the credit card, go wash the windshield, then accept the $46.22 charge to the credit card to fill up the wheels. Gotta have them wheels.

I do this weekly and don't question it. I've been conditioned.

You're not the only one. Pretty much all of us do this without question. I've heard our automobile dependancy compared to addiction before, and the anaology seems very apt. We'll do whatever it takes to keep on driving our cars. And just like addiction, people deny there's even a problem.

If you really want to, it is possible to reduce your dependance on gasoline. The next time you are the market for a vehicle, shop around for one with better fuel economy. Consider buying a smaller car that meets 95% of your needs, and use the money you save to rent a larger car the once or twice a year you drive up to the mountains. The next time you move, consider a home that is closer to work, mass transit, and the services you use on a regular basis. Then next time you change jobs, look for job opportunities close to where you live. For trips under two miles, consider walking or riding a bike.

When LindyHopper and I bought our first home together, we looked for a place that would give us short commutes. Her commute is only about one mile and she can walk or ride a bike. My commute is about five miles, which I can do in 10 minutes by car, or 25 minutes by bike. Doing this saved us a lot of money in gas, and we get to spend a lot more time together since we don't have to spend much time in the daily commute.

1. there are still billions of barrels of oil out there for the taking. The Western coast of California offers billions, Alaska more billions.

It is true that ANWR probably has about 2 to 15 billion barrels of oil. But as of 2002, the United States consumes 19.8 million barrels of oil per day, which is about 7.2 billion barrels per year. At that rate, we consume the entire eventual output of ANWR in anywhere from 3 months to 2 years. Even if drilling were approved, it would take years before the oil started flowing, and it would take decades to extract all the oil. At realistic extraction rates, ANWR would hardly make a perceptible dent in our oil imports. Similar arguements apply to other remaining conventional oil sources in the United States. They just aren't enough to meet our insatiable demands for oil.

If we really want to reduce our oil imports, we will have to do it through improved efficiency, demand reduction, and alternative energy sources, including unconventional oil, coal gasification, and biomass.

2. alternative energy sources are a political joke.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Unconventional oil sources, including tar sands and oil shale, have been experiemented with for years, but they have not been economically viable when oil prices have been low. Biomass, in the form ethanol, butanol, and biodiesel are already commercially viable in many locations, though American corn ethanol is heavily subsidized, and it is unclear whether it is a net energy source or not. I expect coal gasification and liquifaction via the Fischer-Tropsch process will end up supplying a large portion of our liquid fuel demand. We have enormous coal reserves, so coal gasification could meet our liquid fuel needs for decades to come, although at a higher price than we have been historically accustomed to.

 

[Icycle]

Biomass, in the form ethanol, butanol, and biodiesel are already commercially viable in many locations, though American corn ethanol is heavily subsidized, and it is unclear whether it is a net energy source or not.

Another problem with biomass as a mass replacement for transportation fuel is there is a limited amount of arable land in the world. Dedicated land to producing crops for biofuels means less land available to grow crops for food. Unless everyone wants to become vegetarians, we can't really afford to lose that much food production capacity.

 

[Goodieluver]

We're being conditioned like Pavlov's dogs.

It was gas shortages in the 70's.

Then it was coffee in the mid-eighties.

Then it was sugar in the late eighties.

Now we're back to gas again.

Get used to it, you won't see gas below $3 a gallon again.

Why ? Because we need it and can afford it.

This is a new benchmark.
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Why wont we? Economics is a circle, you have highs and lows. In the 70's with the crisis, Gas prices in some regions rose higher than we ever seen or could believe, then about 20 years later it was the lowest we ever saw. Its the concept of financial booms and recession

 

[Goodieluver]

Another problem with biomass as a mass replacement for transportation fuel is there is a limited amount of arable land in the world. Dedicated land to producing crops for biofuels means less land available to grow crops for food. Unless everyone wants to become vegetarians, we can't really afford to lose that much food production capacity.

The govt gives tax breaks and funds the farmers for the biodiesel project, dekalb here is actually one of the larger regions for it being corn biomass based fuel.

 

[Goodieluver]

Beautiful response there Icycle. Really.

But it still blows me away how we all pull up to the gas pump, swipe the credit card, go wash the windshield, then accept the $46.22 charge to the credit card to fill up the wheels. Gotta have them wheels.

I do this weekly and don't question it. I've been conditioned.

two more comments:

1. there are still billions of barrels of oil out there for the taking. The Western coast of California offers billions, Alaska more billions.

2. alternative energy sources are a political joke.

It's oil all the way.
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Its not an issue of conditioning, its a condition of need. Im not gonna walk 10 miles to get to work and i dont ride(or own) a bicycle. People do complain and hold those futile "dont drive" days but all it does it hurt themselves cuz boycotting gas hurts u more than the govt, because the companies set the price accordin to the stock market price on crude oil that is sellin

 

[Icycle]

Get used to it, you won't see gas below $3 a gallon again.

Why wont we? Economics is a circle, you have highs and lows. In the 70's with the crisis, Gas prices in some regions rose higher than we ever seen or could believe, then about 20 years later it was the lowest we ever saw. Its the concept of financial booms and recession

The reason we probably won't see gas prices much below $3/gallon again is that oil is a finite, non-renewable natural resource with some unique geophysical characteristics. Over the last one hundred years or so since oil was first commercially extracted, we have discovered and pumped out pretty much all of the easy to reach oil deposits. About half of the original oil still remains in the ground, but what is left is the hard to reach oil, and it will become progressively more difficult to extract. Eventually, despite our best efforts, the rate we extract oil from the ground will plateau and then decline. Since the worldwide demand for oil has been increasing at about 2% per year, once oil production peaks, there will be gap between supply and demand which will drive up prices, probably much higher than we have seen even in the 1970s. the difference this time is the oil supply shortfall will be permanent.

Oil geologists disagree about exactly when the peak of oil production will occur. Some say it could happen as early as 2006 or 2010. Some say as late as 2025. But nearly all agree that it is coming soon.

 

[isabeau]

hubby says a honda suv without 4WD rather defeats the purpose..

 

[Icycle]

People do complain and hold those futile "dont drive" days but all it does it hurt themselves cuz boycotting gas hurts u more than the govt, because the companies set the price accordin to the stock market price on crude oil that is sellin

The gasoline boycotts that you see floating around the Internet that tell people to boycott a certain gasoline company, or to avoid buying gas on a certain day are indeed futile if people don't change their driving habits. It just means that means that one gas station sells a little more gas one day and a little less another day. The aggregate demand doesn't change and there is no effect on gas prices.

If people truly want to reduce the amount they pay for gasoline, they need to make substantive changes in their long-term gas consumption, by driving more fuel efficient cars, by driving in a more fuel efficient manner, and by simply driving less. Taking these actions will reduce your personal gasoline expenses, and if enough people do it, gas prices would decline. But don't hold your breath for plummeting gas prices due to widespread adoption of bicycling. 🙂

 

[Icycle]

hubby says a honda suv without 4WD rather defeats the purpose..

It really depends on what you use the SUV for.

If you use it mostly for commuting to and from work, with the occasional roadtrip on the Interstate, then 4WD is nothing more than a status symbol and marketing gimmick.

If you frequently travel in snowy or icy conditions, or on steep, muddy, unpaved roads, 4WD can mean the difference between getting to your destination and getting stuck in a ditch.

I have no idea how you and your hubby intend to drive the SUV, so I can't say whether or not it is necessary in your case. But for most people who have it, it is simply overkill and a waste of money. Heck, whenever I drive up to the mountains in the snow, I take my 2WD Saturn with traction devices on my tires, and I've never had any problems.

 

[isabeau]

It really depends on what you use the SUV for.

If you use it mostly for commuting to and from work, with the occasional roadtrip on the Interstate, then 4WD is nothing more than a status symbol and marketing gimmick.

If you frequently travel in snowy or icy conditions, or on steep, muddy, unpaved roads, 4WD can mean the difference between getting to your destination and getting stuck in a ditch.

I have no idea how you and your hubby intend to drive the SUV, so I can't say whether or not it is necessary in your case. But for most people who have it, it is simply overkill and a waste of money. Heck, whenever I drive up to the mountains in the snow, I take my 2WD Saturn with traction devices on my tires, and I've never had any problems.

sighs well i certainly don't care for status..we just liked the suv so we bought it..and since we live in rather a mountainous state, it does come in handy.

 

[MrMacphisto]

In the short term, no. But Iraq wasn't producing anywhere near full capacity even before the war, and instability in Russia and Venezuela hasn't helped either. Medium and long term though, the real reason oil prices are so high is simply because demand is the highest its ever been.

Pretty much... China and India are consuming a lot more oil than before.

In terms of the U.S. though, lowering our gas taxes would help a lot. Right now, there is a big push for lowering (and maybe repealing) the gas tax in NC. We have one of the highest state gas taxes in the country. Whether or not we will actually lower the gas tax is another matter....

In Greensboro, gas ranges between 2.85 and about 3.00 a gallon, depending on where you go.

 

[Bugman]

Regular unleaded went to 2.95 here,but was down to 2.86 this morning.

 

[Icycle]

In terms of the U.S. though, lowering our gas taxes would help a lot. Right now, there is a big push for lowering (and maybe repealing) the gas tax in NC. We have one of the highest state gas taxes in the country. Whether or not we will actually lower the gas tax is another matter....

This is a supply and demand problem. Lowering gas taxes will not help. If you remove gas taxes, that will lower prices in the short term. But price is set by supply and demand. The price will be instantly lowered, but it will quickly rebound as gasoline reaches the same supply-demand equilibrium that it had before. The difference is that the money that the government was collecting to build and repair roads is now going to the oil companies as higher profits.

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

It is $2.99 a gallon here in Bay City

 

[natural tickler]

It is $2.99 a gallon here in Bay City

stop whining


It is 3.49 here

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

I just drove by the least expenisve station in the area a bit ago. They're up to $3.17 for regular. That's about the highest they've been. Others in the area run as high as $3.29. We aren't as bad as a lot of other spots. But, it'll still slow people down on running around a lot more than necessary.

Ann

 

[Sultrybrunette]

Grrrrr it jumped up to 3.14 this morning here in Lansing. Obscene.

 

[Mz Chaos]

stop whining


It is 3.49 here

Damn! I feel for ya!

 

[Goodieluver]

Pretty much... China and India are consuming a lot more oil than before.

In terms of the U.S. though, lowering our gas taxes would help a lot. Right now, there is a big push for lowering (and maybe repealing) the gas tax in NC. We have one of the highest state gas taxes in the country. Whether or not we will actually lower the gas tax is another matter....

In Greensboro, gas ranges between 2.85 and about 3.00 a gallon, depending on where you go.

Durin the first major gas crisis i wanna say in 00 or 01, illinois(or maybe just chicago) repealed its gas tax for the last half of the year, it dropped about 10-15 cents overall, nothing major. I mean, would it really help u if gas was 3.00 instead of 3.15?

Im actually rather confused, why is diesel in some markets cheaper than regular unleaded, it takes more to refine diesel, yet its same price if not cheaper?

 

[Icycle]

Durin the first major gas crisis i wanna say in 00 or 01, illinois(or maybe just chicago) repealed its gas tax for the last half of the year, it dropped about 10-15 cents overall, nothing major. I mean, would it really help u if gas was 3.00 instead of 3.15?

As I noted earlier, getting rid of gas taxes will not have a signficant impact on gas prices. The only thing can could substatially lower prices would be to dramatically increase the supply, or dramatically lower the demand.

Im actually rather confused, why is diesel in some markets cheaper than regular unleaded, it takes more to refine diesel, yet its same price if not cheaper?

Diesel is a different product that gasoline, though the both come from petroleum. Diesel is simpler to refine than gasoline, so it is often cheaper. However, there are many other factors than can influence diesel price. For example, home heating oil is fairly similar to diesel, so wintertime demand for home heating oil can drive up diesel prices.

 

[Goodieluver]

I do not see how people can blame President Bush for the prices, lately prices have gone up due to the new middle east violence but prices in the rest of the world on average are all higher than the US. The national average for the US unleaded gasoline is 2.89 as of may 2006 per the int'l energy agency

Here are other numbers
France-6.20
Germany-6.42
Italy- 6.44
spain-5.18
england-6.70
japan-4.53
canada-3.52
saudi arabia-.62(yes, 62 cents)

So for those who accuse the "oil barons" and President Bush of these gas prices, how is it that at that avg, America is lower, even lower than our canadian brothers. One man cannot dictate world petroleum prices, and one man cannot be held responsible for the price of something.

 

[TKpervert]

$3.23 here in Orange County Calif

 

[Icycle]

So for those who accuse the "oil barons" and President Bush of these gas prices, how is it that at that avg, America is lower, even lower than our canadian brothers. One man cannot dictate world petroleum prices, and one man cannot be held responsible for the price of something.

The reason gas prices are so low in the United States compared to the rest of the industrialized nations is that we have one of the lowest gasoline tax rates of any industrialized nation. Japan, South Korea, and all of Western Europe have very high gas tax rates. The reason that Saudia Arabia has such low gas prices is they heavily subsidise gasoline, as does Iran, Iraq, Libya, Indonesia, and a few other few other nations.
Bush can't be held completely responsible for relatively high oil and gas prices worldwide, but he has been a contributing factor. Oil supplying nations have been pumping oil at or near maximum capacity in recent years. When we invaded Iraq on Bush's orders, most or all of the oil producing capacity of one of the top oil producing nations was taken off line. Due to ongoing violence, it still hasn't recovered. Since the world doesn't really have any spare capacity to fill in for Iraq, prices have risen.
Bush and the Republican Congress have also continued to propagate policies that encourage Americans to continue their gas-guzzling habits, including a tax break for large SUVs, and leaving fuel economy standards at their 1987 levels. Because the United States alone accounts for 25% of world oil consumption, our demand patterns have a strong impact on worldwide demand, and hence worldwide oil prices. If we took measures to reduce our oil consumption, that could lower world oil prices.

 

[Bel]

Whe i need to go to the gas station i usualy fill up my car with about 10 gallon that will cost me right now about $58-59 so then you figure out what kind of prices we got in europe and me who is in sweden.

 

[unit5610]

I payed 2.94 today but lightning started a big fire at the gasoline terminal in Providence last night, which is supposed to create a local shortage, of course. 🙁