Health Bill passed!

[Rox_My_Sox1]

Really? I heard that got bad reviews...

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

Really? I heard that got bad reviews...

Eh, she wants to see it. :aniyawn:

It IS an interesting movie to come out right now, with this reform signed into law and all.

 

[MaxDragon]

While I am interested in affordable health care, I am NOT interested in being FORCED to buy it. That worked out so well with auto insurance. So come 2014 (if we survive 2012) I will be moving to Canada.

 

[omnislash]

So uh... nobody else knows where to find a bias-free rendition of this bill online? :S

 

[MistressValerie1]

The best summary I could find was here, despite its provocative headline.

 

[FeatherDaemon1]

So uh... nobody else knows where to find a bias-free rendition of this bill online? :S

Bias free? You speak of the political über-magnet of the decade. That is simply - impossible. :nono:

 

[omnislash]

Thanks Mistress, that's really helpful. And you're right, it was pretty even-tempered, with very little slant, and realistic perspectives.

 

[maniactickler38]

Another step towards complete socialism. higher costs for less quality. yep, that sounds like a good healthcare plan to me. :rolleyes

 

[Sorcerer Lance]

http://humon.deviantart.com/art/The-End-of-America-158177961

 

[GaryGoafer]

If people in the States think this healthcare bill makes America a 'socialist' country, us Europeans must seem like hardcore Stalinists by comparison.

 

[Sorcerer Lance]

the sad part is, I notice Americans absolutely LOVE to associate...nay, make the word "socialism" synonymous with "communism".

as far as I can tell, the rest of the "socialist" countries like Europe, Australia and such seem to be doing just fine without any threat of tyranny outside of terrorism while the US stays paranoid of the Red Scare from a few decades ago.

America just seems to fear change.

 

[the_jimmy_james]

Raf... Europe is a continent. Australia is too, but it's covered by one country so ya know...

 

[FeatherDaemon1]

If people in the States think this healthcare bill makes America a 'socialist' country, us Europeans must seem like hardcore Stalinists by comparison.

Not particularly, it is just that 'we' don't want the U.S. to get to that point. It is the slippery slope which is the concern.

 

[Travalion]

I'm sad that several republicans have made death threats again democrats in the senate over this bill passing. Want it or not, is this how people are going to act when things don't go their way from now on. Take a loss with some dignity. As for the socialist thing, only thing I have to say about it that has not been said yet, is I notice the news loves to whip out that card to get people all scared.

 

[epsilongold]

Now maybe they will focus on other things. Like, oh I don't know, maybe the ECONOMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FeatherDaemon1]

I'm sad that several republicans have made death threats again democrats in the senate over this bill passing. Want it or not, is this how people are going to act when things don't go their way from now on. Take a loss with some dignity. As for the socialist thing, only thing I have to say about it that has not been said yet, is I notice the news loves to whip out that card to get people all scared.

I'm personally sad that the veracity of such claims are never challenged. That they are just accepted as truth because they are simply heard through the media. :rolleyes

 

[taragohn]

I live in Holland and things are a lot different here

Fines for not having health care?
Here it is unthinkable NOT to have health care
Why would you not have health care?

 

[maniactickler38]

I'm sad that several republicans have made death threats again democrats in the senate over this bill passing. Want it or not, is this how people are going to act when things don't go their way from now on. Take a loss with some dignity. As for the socialist thing, only thing I have to say about it that has not been said yet, is I notice the news loves to whip out that card to get people all scared.

We should be scared. you might not give two shits about your freedom, but most of us do. at least the republicans arent firing off guns like the socialist left.

 

[Abadon XXX1]

This insanity with congress makes me sad and really wish not to choose democrat or republican because of this entire affair. That's why I choose who I think would do a good job, though I will say not a lot of congress did a good job on either end

 

[Kenjisan]

Honestly, I couldn't be happier that this passed. I am an independent, and a full-time student, but cannot afford health insurance while I am in school. In 2006, I had a abdominal surgery and was left with $40,000 in medical debt. Despite my efforts to negotiate with the hospital to pay off the debt, they wanted nothing less than $300 a month.

Now, explain to me how someone who can't afford health insurance can afford $300 a month. Long story short: I couldn't pay what they ask, so they sold my debt to a collection agency, ruining what little credit record I had built up. I now pay $150 a month to these guys, which is a great burden to me financially, and now I definitely can't pay for insurance(not until I get out of school anyway). It's my hope that students and others like me will now be able to afford insurance, and avoid becoming a slave to a financial institution.

Also, this bill allows for those with pre-existing conditions to get insurance. If there's anyone out there who thinks this is a bad thing, well, you're less than human, in my opinion. A good friend of mine found out he had MS a few years ago. Being a young guy like myself, this was fairly shocking to me. Unfortunately, no insurance companies would accept him after this, which made getting treatments impossible. For about five years I've watched him suffer, and complain about the pains he gets, and how his vision is getting worse, while nothing could be done. For a while, I thought that I'd basically have to sit back and watch a good friend of mine slowly die while treatments which could extend his life quite a bit were available.

Thanks to what was signed into law this week, my friend can finally get the treatment he needs. Just try to fucking repeal it.

I'm personally sad that the veracity of such claims are never challenged. That they are just accepted as truth because they are simply heard through the media. :rolleyes

Um... you can hear the tapes of the threats through several major news websites. I will say this again: You can hear the threats with your own ears. Unless of course, you were referring to something else, as it's kinda hard to tell from your message.

Another step towards complete socialism. higher costs for less quality. yep, that sounds like a good healthcare plan to me. :rolleyes

This sort of cynicism is why America is falling behind the rest of the world. There is this hostility to anything but the status quo. America has changed immensely since it's founding, but because it's hard for an individual to measure, we just assume that everything is the same it's been since the beginning, and that anything that seeks to change the way things are done is a threat to the institutional foundations of this country. Bullshit. This is a step in the right direction.

On all the socialism crap, this is a complete non sequitur. The word socialism itself has come to represent something that can only be described as anti-american and evil. Yet we've had socialist institutions in this country for ages.

If you don't want socialism, then we better repeal public education - that's socialist.

We better repeal medicare while we're at it - that's socialist too, after all

Police and fire fighters are part of a socialist system too.


The bottom line is, you can't bash one thing for being socialist and ignore the others. If you sincerely believe that something with a socialist aspect is bad for the country because it's socialist, well, I'd hate to live in the America that you want, buddy.

Not particularly, it is just that 'we' don't want the U.S. to get to that point. It is the slippery slope which is the concern.

What is this slippery slope. Mind explaining how this works? By the logic you are suggesting, every other major industrialized country in the world is on the brink of an oppressive socialist dictatorship.

Now maybe they will focus on other things. Like, oh I don't know, maybe the ECONOMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except that current the current burden of health care costs on the economy are(get ready for it) tied directly to the economy.

We all have health care ...even now. Learn history, this is not about health care, global warming, or any other of the b.s.
It's not to late yet. We can fight to reverse this.

Last I checked, this bill was about making health care affordable to Americans who can't afford it(like myself), while reforming several wasteful and inefficient aspects of the system. If you have something substantive to say, aside from the tinfoil idea that this will turn our country into a socialist nightmare, then please, let us know.

uh we already have free health care. I had broken bones in my hand, had them reset. "cost" me a few grand. dont pay the bill. I didnt, what are they gonna do? thier prices are way out of control

This is not true. While it is true that you can sometimes get hospitals to forgive your debt, others won't let you go so easily, as is the case with what happened to me in 2006

We should be scared. you might not give two shits about your freedom, but most of us do. at least the republicans arent firing off guns like the socialist left.

No, I will not be held hostage to your empty cynicism and baseless fear tactics. The universe is built on ideas. The thought that there is only one "true" way of doing something is idiotic and harmful. The founding fathers realized this when they set out to establish this great republic. They knew that thought was an evolutionary process, not a static one. If the founders did not want change in the system, then our system would not be designed in a way to allow such change.


I am not scared of this. This is nothing more than the same progressive change which has occured since the beginning.

 

[Hootus1]

After working for the Fed for 24 years, specifically the Department of Defense, I can tell you that if the government says it is good for you, HAUL ASS in the opposite direction!
My kidneys laid down on me in 2005 and I was medically retired from civil service. They never offered me an office job and at the time I had only six years to go for full retirement. The medical retirement cost me 1000 dollars a month to go out early.
In 2008 I got my kidney transplant. I have to say that I was blessed by God for some reason. However the sad part is a 14 year old girl died so I could recieve one of her kidneys.
This new health care bill with its diagnostic board a.k.a. "death panel", and yes when boiled down that's really what it amounts to, makes me wonder if I would have been told "We're not recommending you for a transplant, you will do dialisis the rest of your days." Because of my age, 53 soon to be 54, and unable to be around any kind of workplace chemicals, I wonder if I would have been turned down.
Right now I am able to afford my own insurance, but what about the day when the premiums get so damned high that I can't. And what happens if when I have to go to the government plan they tell me they will not issue me my anti-rejection meds???
I'll be dead within a month.
In my situation, the democrats did me no favors. I know others feel differently, and thats fine. but I can only see this from my angle and the new health bill is going to be nothing but bad for a lot of people.
I generally try to stay away from politics on here, so if I made you mad so be it. But that's the way I feel about it.

Hootus

 

[Hootus1]

Oh yeah I forgot one other thing. I don't like the idea of the I.R.S. doing the "collecting of fines." Anything they are involved with is nothing but trouble!!!
It give new meaning to the old saying,

"That's the way it goes, first your money, then your clothes!!!"

Have a nice day everyone,

Hootus

 

[Kenjisan]

After working for the Fed for 24 years, specifically the Department of Defense, I can tell you that if the government says it is good for you, HAUL ASS in the opposite direction!
My kidneys laid down on me in 2005 and I was medically retired from civil service. They never offered me an office job and at the time I had only six years to go for full retirement. The medical retirement cost me 1000 dollars a month to go out early.
In 2008 I got my kidney transplant. I have to say that I was blessed by God for some reason. However the sad part is a 14 year old girl died so I could recieve one of her kidneys.
This new health care bill with its diagnostic board a.k.a. "death panel", and yes when boiled down that's really what it amounts to, makes me wonder if I would have been told "We're not recommending you for a transplant, you will do dialisis the rest of your days." Because of my age, 53 soon to be 54, and unable to be around any kind of workplace chemicals, I wonder if I would have been turned down.
Right now I am able to afford my own insurance, but what about the day when the premiums get so damned high that I can't. And what happens if when I have to go to the government plan they tell me they will not issue me my anti-rejection meds???
I'll be dead within a month.
In my situation, the democrats did me no favors. I know others feel differently, and thats fine. but I can only see this from my angle and the new health bill is going to be nothing but bad for a lot of people.
I generally try to stay away from politics on here, so if I made you mad so be it. But that's the way I feel about it.

Hootus

Fair enough. You gave fair reasoning based on your own experience, which is more than I can say for some in this debate(not pointing fingers at specific members per say). While there is the stigma that government can't run anything properly, it's hard to trust insurance companies who's ultimate goal is to make money, rather than save lives. Part of this bill was intended to make these companies work for your business, rather than be the lesser of a number of evils. It is my hope that this will be accomplished.


On a related note, here's a fun little story: As a current resident of Tokyo, Japan, this country runs universal health care parallel to private health care. The private health care is still very much alive if you desire it, but the universal health care works quite well. How much you pay depends on how much you make, so as a student making nothing, I pay about $40 a month. Someone making $3500/month would pay about $400.

I recently walked into a doctor's office to have my back x-rayed after a fall. The co-pay was 2000 yen, or about $23. There was no appointment, no bullshit. It was a perfectly smooth transaction. To get checked for illnesses on another occasion, the co-pay was 500 yen, no appointment.

Since the health care debate was so heated, it made it's way into the news here as well, so I had a chance to talk to local people about what they thought of their health care. Many of them were shocked that so many in America would be opposed to having the type of system that they enjoyed. While I can't say that this was in anyway scientific, I couldn't find anyone at all dissatisfied with the health care they received here. The Japanese people currently have the highest life expectancy in the world, and while diet plays a role, certainly, you don't reach this level of life expectancy with a poor health care system.

Now the kicker: This Japanese health care system, this supposed "socialist nightmare" that helps ensure the healthiest population in the world, that seems to work fine based on all experience, was created by none other than the United States of America after World War II. Tell me again why this isn't possible?

 

[chode]

"onestly, I couldn't be happier that this passed. I am an independent, and a full-time student, but cannot afford health insurance while I am in school. In 2006, I had a abdominal surgery and was left with $40,000 in medical debt. Despite my efforts to negotiate with the hospital to pay off the debt, they wanted nothing less than $300 a month."

How is your school paid for?


And its not about health care for everyone, no one is against that. Its how it is being paid for. The Dems dont care that the country is going to be so in debt that the country becomes bankrupt. The American dream is killed. You bust your but and make alot of cash? Sorry, the gov now gets half. Not ok.

 

[Hootus1]

as a college student I can understand why you are glad to see this bill pass. I don't have a problem with any of you that feel that way. But what are you going to do if your tuition and books keep climbing and you can't pay the fine for not having insurance? If I remember right, the fines go up over the years don't they? It may be 40 bucks now, but what happens when it gets into hundreds or thousands? I remember when I went to Aircraft Mechanic school in 1981, the total price for 18 months of training was 5200 bucks. The same course now is over 35,000 bucks. You see what I mean? I agree that the insurance companies are overcharging, however I would have liked to seen the insurance companies be able to compete across state lines. I think this would have brought prices down. Don't get me wrong, there are some good things in this bill. Like pre-existing conditions. Thats me now! Diabetes and a kidney transplant. Thats about as pre-existing as it gets.