If You Support Gay Marriage, Then What About Polygamy and Incest?

[JimBoy]

I had this talk with a friend of mine who asked me if I support gay marriage then what about the other alternative relationships between consenting people? If gay marriage is allowed, shouldn't incest and polygamy be allowed as well?

Sex with children and animals are out of the question because they cannot legally consent to sexual relations.

However, if you want to have more than one husband/wife why can't you? If a brother and sister want to consent to sex why can't they? Where do we stop the barrier between what adults do under consent?

My friend wasn't trying to do the "slippery slope" argument or anything like that; but do other consenting sexual relations deserve a shot at becoming legalized too other than gay marriage?

What do you think about this?

 

[Violetta]

Personally, I'd be far more tolerant towards polygamy. I'm way behind gay marriage, and I can see how someone could feel they have enough love to have multiple husbands or wives. Incest, however, I'm opposed to. There are simply healthy concerns for any offspring before you get into the moral debate over the whole thing.

 

[Duke Diablo]

Well, for one, Polygamy isn't fair for the multiple men/women the person is marrying. Marriages of same gender don't assume one of them would be in better position than other, both partners are equal in respect they're getting. So, they should love only him/her, and he/she could love them all. Working both ways, though, so everyone can marry multiple partners, I'd think we'd end up marrying people we had a chat at the bus station.... everyone marries everyone, and in the end we would be one big, happy family.
So, here's something to think about: if you got 10 wives, you got 10 mother in-laws😀

About incest, I agree with Sammi. Genetical diseases have a higher chance of triggering the closer the relatives. That is the first reason incest has been frowned upon.

 

[melanie2]

how on earth can you compare gay marriage to incest???

 

[TICKLELOVERS]

As two married lesbians, we can assure you that love and equality are paramount in a relationship. Polygamy means one person is married to many partners, the partners are not intermarried. The idea of supporting gay marriage means that the love between two people (just two!) can be celebrated, regardless of gender, religion, age, sexuality or race. Isn't this what we all strive for? There was a time when wealth and nobility intermarried and the poor were not able to marry anyone rich. There was a time when people of different races or religion could not marry. In time, we erased those idiotic prejudiced barriers. Why shouldn't two people who love each other get married? We her all kinds of idiotic reasons why not, but hello, its our lives. As for incest, we need only to look at what happen to the great nation of Egypt to see how that turned out, Cleopatra married her brother and then got rid of him. Hatsheput was forced to married her brother and paid him back by keeping his son from the throne for 20 years. Inter family relation are immoral and health risk for children. On the other hand, less STDs are transmitted through lesbian sex and we don't have accidental pregnancies. We can plan better and in the Netherlands where gay marriage is recognised, divorce rates are LOWER amongst lesbian marriage than heterosexual ones. Marriage is about TWO people who are in love. After all, straight, gay, bisexual we are all people. Besides what is the difference between heterosexual and gay marriage other than production of offspring? Besides plenty of heterosexual marriages have adoption due to inability to produce children. So in summary, your friends' belief that if you allow gay marriage why not allow incest or polygamy, remind your friend marriage is about the love that exists between two people and that incests produces a higher quantity of children with deformities.
Love,
Heather and Anna
P.S We hope everyone is happy and you rock Isabeau, sammi-chan and Duke Diablo

 

[JimBoy]

how on earth can you compare gay marriage to incest???

I didn't. They are only connected by principle; what adults consent to with each other.

Who is to say that you cannot have sex with your relatives if you want to?

I feel that all alternative sexual relations have to be looked at if you want to legalize one. If gay marriage is pushed then we should look at all forms of consenting sexual relations and say which is allowed/not allowed.

Gay marriage and incest are not related; except for being under consent.

 

[melanie2]

i don't understand..gay marriage is just like heterosexual marriage, except it's same sex...why would anyone think to compare it to incest in any way shape or form? incest is taboo..should always be taboo...marriage between relatives usually always ends up with weak offspring eventually...

and this is like saying...hmm let's say you are gay...and gay marriages were the only legal marriage around for years and years..suddenly they legalize heterosexual marriage..as a gay person..or involved in a gay marriage that had been legal forever..would you then ask the question...if heterosexual marriage is legal, why not polygamy? incest?

the reasoning makes no sense to me..

 

[TICKLELOVERS]

Thank you Isabeau, dear friend.
Your friends' argument is based on "alternative" sexual relations. What does that mean? As Isabeau and we have pointed out there is no difference between gay and hetero marriage. Family Sex or incest is immoral and causes health problems severe health problems. Just like beastiality. We say marriage between two consenting adults such exist regardless of race, religion, sexuality, creed, wealth or nationality. Incestous marriage causes birth defects and causes unnecessary confusion between family members. Imagine a son wanted to be involved with his mother, not only would it be disgusting but what about the father? Or a mother and her daughter? Or a father and his daughter? Or brother and sister? The bond of trust would be altered forever. What if they broke up? As for polygamy, polygamy promotes a sort of disparity of power. Polygamy says that you can have multiple lovers and the risk of STDs and unplanned pregnancies rises dramatically. Equally polygamy implies that a sort of wealth is necessary in order to sustain such a family. The beautiful thing about marriage is that it declares that love should only exist between 2 people. The union of a couple. One half completes the other. We can't see how we as a loving married lesbian couple could in any way equate to two sisters getting together or a mother and son. Or compared to some STD spreading man with 5 wives. Marriage should be about two non-family related people, JUST TWO non-family related people. Thank you and have a nice day.
Love,
Heather and Anna

 

[Camel26]

i don't understand..gay marriage is just like heterosexual marriage, except it's same sex...why would anyone think to compare it to incest in any way shape or form? incest is taboo..should always be taboo...marriage between relatives usually always ends up with weak offspring eventually...

and this is like saying...hmm let's say you are gay...and gay marriages were the only legal marriage around for years and years..suddenly they legalize heterosexual marriage..as a gay person..or involved in a gay marriage that had been legal forever..would you then ask the question...if heterosexual marriage is legal, why not polygamy? incest?

the reasoning makes no sense to me..

I second Izzy's sentiment...let me ask this, to the straight members of the forum: I always get asked if I CHOSE to be queer...why the hell would anyone choose to be a second class citizen? Why would anyone CHOOSE to be ridiculed, told they were "fucked up in the head and living in a fantasy world" by their own family? Why would anyone CHOOSE to not have their one true love recognized for what it really is? LOVE!?!?!

So let me ask: DID YOU CHOOSE TO BE STRAIGHT? Did you consciously wake up one day and say, "Hmm...well, I could be gay, bi, or straight...I think I'll go with straight just for kicks?" Because that is certainly not how it works for members of the GLBT community.

In that vein, if one is born gay or straight or somewhere in the middle, one is NOT born a Polygamist or Incestual. Polygamy is a cultural tradition of a small sect of the LDS church. It is a tradition, for lack of a better word, and it is a CHOICE. I will not sit here in judgement of those who choose to engage in polygamy--I have one wife, and I don't have the patience, the libido, or the finances to handle more than one. Kudos to you if you do. However, I do not believe that a SMALL sect of the US population making the choice to marry more than one person should keep MY marriage from being recognized. The issue is not that Gay Marriage will lead to Polygamy...the issue is that Polygamy is being used as an excuse to maintain the status quo...and it's a bunch of bullshit. All the GLBT community is asking is to have the wording changed to "Marriage shall be a legal agreement between two consenting adults" instead of between one man and one woman...the government could call it whatever they want but, as long as I get the same 1,138 legal protections that straight people can get by stumbling drunk into a vegas church after a one night stand...

Whenever my marriage is in ANY WAY compared to incest, I must ask the question: Are you seriously comparing the two? Incest, again, is a CHOICE. It's not one I agree with for the reasons Sammi expressed--too many possibilities for genetic anomalies in the offspring of such a union. And, again, I am not going to slam someone else for choosing said path. Not my place to judge...I'll leave that to a higher power, as I know what it's like to be judged by those who do so in said higher power's name...

Bottom line: Polygamy and Incest are choices...I did not choose to be who I am...I was born a queer woman...and, as such, I should not be denied legal protections for my family. 1,138 rights that every straight couple I know takes for granted on a daily basis. My wife and I are productive, educated members of society who work 40+ hours a week and pay taxes JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

So...why do I get to be a second-class citizen for one small part of who I am that I did not get to choose?

 

[Budweiserbob!]

how on earth can you compare gay marriage to incest???

Although I totally agree with you, Isa, I can see how he made the connection. He's used the wrong term.
Homosexual Love is the concenting love between people of the same sex, his comparison is consenting love between people of the same family...
Incest is just the sexual intercourse between two people with very strong relation.

Personally, I don't have a problem with any form of consenting love, be it gay, lesbian, close relation, polygamy etc. I say this because I know it's none of my concern. Anyone has the right to be with anyone who feels the same way about them. If a man wants to have 6 wives, and those 6 wives don't mind sharing that one man, then let him. Or if two cousins (somehow) fall in love with each other, they have all the right to be together. >.>
How they met or how they live, I don't care, because in the end they're just people who've fallen in love with each other and on that basis, they have the right to be together. ^^
Now you're probably sitting there thinking "Dear God, Bob is one sick son of a gun", that's fine. x]
I'm just basing my logic on the perception of love, and common factor each of these relations have. 😛

 

[JimBoy]

As stated before the key word I am using is "consent".

I understand sexual orientation is not a choice and that you are born with it. However, if you want to have more than one spouse; as long as you love and respect one another and agree to the situation then who is to say that it can't go on? Why can't you choose to go into that lifestyle?

As for incest on the other hand, if relatives choose to have sex with one another under consent then why not?

Another key point here is that nobody should get hurt. Now with incest, the offspring of incest can lead to various genetic and psychological problems which has been proven before. Clearly the unborn child did not agree to this so one can argue that this damages life. So incest is a no-no.

Are marriages validated by social opinion, with all its irrational whims and ugly prejudices, or by the law? Should private, legal matters be determined by every-changing public opinion, or by legal statues that have been studied and debated by lawyers and judges?

 

[melanie2]

no..private individual matters should never be decided by the government..it brings to mind the Terry situation..how dare the government get involved in keeping her alive? it was none of their business...it was the family's and the family's alone..she couldn't make any decisions anymore..she was a living corpse...and the awful part was it was all i heard about on tv that spring..one year after my own mother starved to death..just imagine if the whole country had been involved in what happened with my mother..if the government had decided to come in...force feed her..make me and my family out to be some sort of villains without understanding or even attempting to understand what had gone on before..noo they come in and disrupt an already grieving household...two familes fighting over what should be done about Terry..get the whole country taking sides in what initially was none of their or our business ever...

sorry to digress, but the government should butt out of people's private lives..what are we...communists??

 

[TKLVR181]

I for one don't really like the idea of incest, but I don't have any stake in it and can't really say whether it's 'real' love or not, so I don't think I'll go into it.

But polygamy I don't think is a good idea, for reasons already said in this thread-it isn't fair. I am a FIRM believer that every person has ONE soulmate--if you're going out and marrying six people then you're either putting your real soulmate amongst so many others, you're depriving others of THEIR soulmates, or both. Just my 2 cents.

~K

 

[Senshi1]

Camel put it really well, IMO.

Personally, I agree with Sammi and Izzy - gay marriage is fine, polygamy should be fine, but incest would be a no. Whether it's "gross" or not is irrelevant - it's genetically unhealthy, and really not fair on the offspring.

Although saying that, polygamy could be seen as unfair to the offspring too, what with all the family. But I guess you can only have one real mother and father, married or not. I think polygamy should be legal but ONLY if the wives/husbands all know and consent to being one of multiple spouses.

 

[Rox_My_Sox1]

Polygamy is a complex issue as it stems from a time when people often had more than one wife and women did not have many (OR ANY) rights and were often not considered persons in general.

As for Incest, I'm not into it whatsoever and I admit it makes me wanna puke but if someone wants to fall in love with their sibling then the least they can do is have a vasectomy/tubes tied and not burden their would be child with deformities they themselves caused through sexual irresponsibility.

 

[Relent<]

You realize that homosexuality and having sex with a blood relative are completely different things, don't you?..
Polygamy is actually practiced rather regularly, even if it isn't necessarily in the open. I can't say I care enough about it to support or defame it; I guess I disdain it.

 

[Senshi1]

Yeah, I just want to say that I personally don't LIKE the idea of polygamy. I think it's a terrible idea. But having said that, I still think it should be LEGAL. Just because I wouldn't do it, doesn't mean others have to refrain from it also.

Gay marriage on the other hand seems fine. It's not hugely different from "straight" marriage in a lot of ways, and I don't think it's a bad idea at all. And honestly, all this hype about it seems - to be blunt - stupid to me. There are so many more pressing issues people could get their arse in their hand over. It's like when you see police going out of their way to bust people for piddling little offences; you think "Jeez, don't you have more important things to do?"

But again, incest is another ball game. With gay marriage and polygamy, the children are free to lead lives completely unrelated to those things should they wish to do so. But with incest, it's pretty hard to move on if you have a toe growing out of your head.

 

[TKLVR181]

Gay marriage on the other hand seems fine. It's not hugely different from "straight" marriage in a lot of ways, and I don't think it's a bad idea at all. And honestly, all this hype about it seems - to be blunt - stupid to me. There are so many more pressing issues people could get their arse in their hand over. It's like when you see police going out of their way to bust people for piddling little offences; you think "Jeez, don't you have more important things to do?"

Quoted just to underscore how much I agree with him here. We as a society/societies have a LOT better things to worry about legislating than two adults chosing to live their lives together in a way that isn't hurting another living being, and most certainly (IMO) not themselves.


~K

 

[NWIBOY]

I'm not for Incest, Polygamy, or gay marriage....

But aren't we all connected by a string of 7 invididuals or less? So in one way or another incest is already occuring, if you want to look at it that way.

 

[melanie2]

^ yikes..now my head is spinning...

 

[SilverleafLycan1]

Incest, no. Polygamy, hell if they all know about it and accept it, I say go for it. Gay marriage is an interesting topic for me though. On more then one occasion I have said no to it. Not because I'm against the union, because of the wording.

The key word I pick out is 'marriage.' Marriage to me is a church activity, a religious experience. If the church (any of them) want to allow it, so be it. If they don't I don't believe the government should be allowed to force them into doing so (separation of church and state andall).

I'm all for civil unions. Homosexuals are citizens and should be allowed to benefit from all of the benefits of marriage. Honestly it's all about the wording of it. I fully understand that it's just about the exact same thing and that I'm nit-picking. I'm just worried about backlash against religious organizations who still say no after it's been legalized (Though, quick side question, is it even banned?), and seeing lawsuits come up. As interesting as it could be precedent-wise, it is something I see as being completely unnecessary and would waste time.

Just my two cents.

 

[melanie2]

yes marriage is basically considered a religious event..however if a couple who is not married lives together long enough..they are considered married under hmm civil law? or some such thing...meaning they didn't have to have a special ceremony..that after years of living together, they are considered married under civil law...

 

[QueenBeeBeeMari]

I believe that you should be able to marry and have sex with whoever you want and if you want to do it with a tree then whatever makes you happy.I am not saying that's it's for me but if both partners are consenting then,well,life's to short to live it someone else's way.So,in my eyes as long as they don't force their lifestyle on anyone else then it should be perfectly legal to marry whoever you want.I mean they are the ones who have to live with their decision so where do we get the right to tell them that they can't love something because we don't see it as true love or we see it as disgusting.That's not our place we don't know what's in their heart and soul and how they feel.They may love that person more then life itself and it wouldn't be fair in my eyes to separate true love and all it's beauty.So love and peace to all creatures no matter how or who they love is my suggestion.

 

[Wade1]

The key word I pick out is 'marriage.' Marriage to me is a church activity, a religious experience. If the church (any of them) want to allow it, so be it. If they don't I don't believe the government should be allowed to force them into doing so (separation of church and state andall).

The legality of gay marriage would merely permit gay people to get married; it wouldn't force any church to perform the ceremony. There are lots of citizens who are legally able to marry (such as divorced people) even though individual churches or denominations may not choose to marry them in their rituals.

Not only would it be right for gay marriage to be legalized, I suspect it's unconstitutional for it to be illegal (equal protection and all that).

 

[The_Kev1]

I think we can have gay couples protected under the law and still maintain our 2 person tradition.