Koochie Koochie Koup - 1st batch

[nessonite1]

Short of disallowing any art to be posted I see no other option. If someone wants to be on the no-post list then they can be put on it. The art is handled exactly the same as videos and photos. We're not going to start disallowing artwork to be posted just because somebody hasn't tracked down the artist and gotten express consent. It's just not practical. We're not going to place such an unreasonable restriction on one medium that we have no intention of placing on any other. If we put something like a "do not post anyone unless otherwise noted" rule on artwork we'd have to follow suit with videos and photos and before you knew it nobody would be allowed to post anything and we'd be on here 24/7 deleting every post and feilding mass amounts of questions asking why TT suddenly sucks.
I'm not entirely sure we should be blindly believing that BAC has popped up out of the blue with a free yahoo email account to dig up ancient threads either.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Ok just as long as you think i'm shallow, after all it is America.

Why would you want me to think that? 😛

 

[Timewarp]

Cause it's America, bitch.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Short of disallowing any art to be posted I see no other option. If someone wants to be on the no-post list then they can be put on it. The art is handled exactly the same as videos and photos. We're not going to start disallowing artwork to be posted just because somebody hasn't tracked down the artist and gotten express consent. It's just not practical. We're not going to place such an unreasonable restriction on one medium that we have no intention of placing on any other. If we put something like a "do not post anyone unless otherwise noted" rule on artwork we'd have to follow suit with videos and photos and before you knew it nobody would be allowed to post anything and we'd be on here 24/7 deleting every post and feilding mass amounts of questions asking why TT suddenly sucks.
I'm not entirely sure we should be blindly believing that BAC has popped up out of the blue with a free yahoo email account to dig up ancient threads either.

I have not personally decided for myself whether this is BAC or not. I converse with him as if he is anyway, because if he's not his lies will eventually catch up with him with every new thing he says.

On the other hand however, creating a new e-mail account and bumping a thread that was recently bumped back up anyways doesn't seem suspicious. There are any number of factors you're not considering. Such as someone telling him, upon his return, where his work is and he has done the rest.

Whenever someone is accusing someone else of something, the best thing to do is think rationally. If you begin by thinking suspiciously, then you end up creating public gossip and end up dragging said person's rep through the mud. In the event the person is an imposter, then you are giving them what they wanted, like a troll does.

It's better to leave your options of conclusions open and not say anything. Talking about how it's suspicious or this and that only increases their satisfaction if you're right.....which is rather bitter-sweet.

No one wants to look like a fool for playing into it, but everyone wants to be right.

It's better to sit on the fence on this one, I think. The truth will reveal itself in time.

I take pride in not being gullible, as should anyone.

Besides, he's BAC, but it's not like he's my Lord and Savior or anything so no need to make a scene of it. People really need to compose themeselves around such individuals who command influence. You're probably embarassing them and humiliating yourself in the process.

 

[Journia]

Cunningham.....

 

[MTJpub]

I have known BAC for years. We have worked together in the past. It is indeed him as we have spoken privately about his return.

Morandilas
MTJ Publishing

 

[Journia]

Well. That settles it then.

 

[MistressValerie1]

The reason artists can be left out is because they're not represented properly, which is an oversight and doesn't have to be in situations and places where it can be helped. People don't care who the artis is in most instances, yet they want more of their art, and people post it, or even re-post it, without asking when these folks are just an IM or e-mail away.

Artists are treated exactly the same way as any other creative content producers. As Ness pointed out, we can't impose draconian restrictions on artwork merely because some material might be reposted outside of fair-use guidelines. It would be unfair, as well as unmanageable, for us to single out art for special treatment.

 

[MistressValerie1]

I have known BAC for years. We have worked together in the past. It is indeed him as we have spoken privately about his return.

Morandilas
MTJ Publishing

Since you are an established member and can vouch for his authenticity, I will consider that sufficient basis for deleting his material.

 

[Journia]

wooot wooootwooooot

 

[MistressValerie1]

I removed the posts that contained BAC art and am now moving this thread to Site Feedback for any further discussion.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Artists are treated exactly the same way as any other creative content producers. As Ness pointed out, we can't impose draconian restrictions on artwork merely because some material might be reposted outside of fair-use guidelines. It would be unfair, as well as unmanageable, for us to single out art for special treatment.

We're talking about getting permission before you post, which is not difficult in this community. It is only unfair to the artist, whom the focus should be put on, not the people enjoying the fruits of their labor.

Special treatment? I fail to see how, as all known artists would be approached and asked the same questions. It is they, not you, who decide what is right, therefore. It is out of your hands, as it should be, and the decision is that of the artist's.

Since you are not in disagreement with that much, then it's a logical conclusion that asking known artists, rather than assuming what is ok, is a good idea.

Once more and again however, the site needs to make the attempt to set a good example, not just hope that "good faith", as you put it, will prevail when it rarely does.

I see the same material posted over and over again, so no one can claim the chances to seek permission do not present themselves or there are no opportunities to be proactive rather than lazy.

I've intentionally held back from doing it myself because I wanted to see if others would have the same drive or initiative. I am seeing that they do not. It's almost like a "whatever, it's not a big deal" attitude "that's just the internet, don't even try to fight it".

It's just laziness is what it is. This could all be solved, and promptly.

It's not at all as hard as it sounds, or as dire as it's being exagerated (by both sides).

Theres no gurantee you'd lose content anyway.

I'd also like to remind you that this is in regards to fetish content, not outside regular internet content. I'm not counting the world wide web as a part of this equation, which makes it that much more easier to isolate and address.

It's not like you're overcoming a mountain....more like a hill.

"If you're so concerned about this Vlad, why don't YOU do it?" some may be thinking.

I don't think I should have to. I know no one thinks they should have to, but I have a legitimate reason- because I am tired of being the one doing it and if I do it no one learns anything. I want someone else to do it for a change. Theres got to be another well-intentioned artist, fan, or user out there that has the same gumption I do on the matter.

I get tired too, you know. It would be nice to know someone would do it either in my absense or because it's the right thing to do.

I'm getting to a point where I'm beginning to not give a damn either. But not because I don't care, but because I'm tired of trying.

Maybe that's what everyone is hoping for (even though it's a mostly unspoken thing). You all may get your wish soon enough...😛

(or will you? This whole BAC thing really rekindled those feelings)


On a side note, I applaud the move of this thread. It's far more appropriate here.

 

[nessonite1]

Demanding that permission be sought for every piece of art posted here would simply not be practical. As Missy Val said (and I have said) we aren't going to make seperate rules for posting art that we are not going to make for posting anything else.
The same rules will apply to posting artwork as apply to posting video, the same as it's always been. Unless you are suggesting that video and photo attachments should be disallowed without seeking permission of anonymous and possibly long-gone producers. Sorry, but it's just not happening.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

No one is demanding anything, and this conversation is now a broken record. I'm talking about people IN THIS COMMUNITY. These are known people that we do not check up on and so post their material without thinking about them. It's as easy as an IM or an e-mail. If done by the site, and not a user (which is ideal, since staff shouldn't rely on a user's word for it and should want to verify it themselves, plus it shows the artist you're personally taking care of it, which is reassuring), the staff would be in a position to know how to deal with this material, fimiliarize themselves with it enough to distinquish it from other styles, and would be able to react to matters more promptly and with certainty. It wouldn't have to be a reoccuring question because asking once and then making a list for people to see who has given permission and who has not helps the users see, in advance, what they have to work with.

Rather than just posting a list whose art cannot be posted, it would also be ideal to list whose art CAN be posted. That way users can upload with confidence and more freedom.

While it would be ideal that any material we recieve would have the blessing of the creator attached to it, I'm obviously smart enough to know thats not possible in the larger scheme of the internet.

Talking specifically about this site and, and perhaps the TMF however isn't unrealistic, crazy, or impractical at all.

When you look at it anyways, unknown content isn't that large in quantity. We get more of the reoccuring unaccredited work than anything else. So even if you were to not allow unknown content, it wouldn't hurt the site, as the majority of the content is coming from the same 15 or so people.

 

[nessonite1]

When you look at it anyways, unknown content isn't that large in quantity. We get more of the reoccuring unaccredited work than anything else. So even if you were to not allow unknown content, it wouldn't hurt the site, as the majority of the content is coming from the same 15 or so people.

you havent been to the anime chicks thread much, have you...
Disallowing content of unknown origin would indeed hurt the site and it just isn't going to happen. If you wish to compile a list of these 15 or so people and then seek out their permission for their work to appear here then you are more than welcome to. But this site and it's staff are not going to undertake something like that. not for art or any other medium. if it's as easy to do as you claim you could probably have done so in the time you've spend convincing us to force everybody else to.

Have you brought this up with the TMF staff? if so, were they any more willing to accept rules like this?

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

you havent been to the anime chicks thread much, have you...
Disallowing content of unknown origin would indeed hurt the site and it just isn't going to happen. If you wish to compile a list of these 15 or so people and then seek out their permission for their work to appear here then you are more than welcome to. But this site and it's staff are not going to undertake something like that. not for art or any other medium. if it's as easy to do as you claim you could probably have done so in the time you've spend convincing us to force everybody else to.

Have you brought this up with the TMF staff? if so, were they any more willing to accept rules like this?

If you think I've been talking all this time about that thread then you're WAY OFF and no wonder you're so against this.

I am not refering to that random thread at all. I am talking about original content from artists in the community whose permission we do not necessarily have but could easily get.

While I did make comments in that thread in regards to DA artists, that is something I myself would handle, since not everyone is a DA artist or even knows any of these people, but I do. Therefore, I'm quite possibly the only one who can be pointing attachments in that specific thread out and asking that they be removed as I know the artist would want that.

Whether or not I will, simply because it's a matter of keeping up with the uploaders, is another matter however.

The regular accreditation for community artists is something everyone and anyone can do, however.

As I said in my last post in bold type, it's just as good to post a list of people whose work can be distributed alongside the list of people whose work cannot.

If you say the staff cannot do that, it's because you don't want to, not because you can't or it's impractical, or whatever. If I was still a part of the staff, I would have already taken care of this years ago without any of the other moderators having to lift a finger. Nobody would care then. That's usually the way it is when responsibility doesn't fall on you.

People don't like work delegated to them, I understand that. It was something I would have been willing to do and offer to do without anyone asking me, since I will have had the authority to make it all work. But now things are different and I can only defer and refer to you guys on my findings. To be quite honest, that would make me feel like I'm on a lower level than you, which I don't feel I am considering my presense here. I'm not your errand boy. I shouldn't have to "ask my supervisor" so to speak. Alot more would get done if I didn't have this chain of command imposed on me.

I don't want to call it resentment, it's certainly not that, but it a reoccuring feeling that transpires every time I want to do something officially but do not have the authority to do so. Constantly being told no when I know that if I swung it by the owner personally, with the power of authority behind me, he may be more inclined to pursue any of these ideas.

Maybe I can find others to do this for me, as I don't feel I should have to. Yeah, I'm that stubborn. 😛

EDIT:

As for TMF, that must be a trick question, as I don't even bother there hardly anymore. I've learned that, as an individual on that site, it's hard to get anything done when you're not staff yourself (which is almost like whats going on here). There's alot more of that forum politics and cliques bullshit over there too.

Plus, I still don't have my artwork forum there. Until I get it, I don't see any reason to contribute. Although I may post in the general discussions from time to time, regardless. General discussions is something that TMF, I admit, does a little better than this place, or more frequently. Theres less jokes and more talk, and that's more up my alley, not to take anything away from this place, which I obviously prefer.

 

[nessonite1]

Actually we don't remove things just because somebody tells us that's what the producer would want. We need to get word from the producer him/herself.

It's not because we want to avoid the extra work, it's because we prefer to run this forum with fewer rules rather than with more rules. Disallowing ALL art that is not specifically allowed by the artist goes against the open atmosphere of this site. We have a no-post list that we follow as strictly as we can. We just have no interest in enforcing a "post only these artists" list. If you think you'd have better luck runnign this by the admin then please do so. But it's pretty clear that the rest of the staff isn't interested in implementing these new rules.

To be quite honest, that would make me feel like I'm on a lower level than you, which I don't feel I am considering my presense here. I'm not your errand boy. I shouldn't have to "ask my supervisor" so to speak. Alot more would get done if I didn't have this chain of command imposed on me.

The chain of command applies to you the exact same way as anyone else. Your ideas are not considered to be any more or less important than any other member. If you feel really strongly that these artists should be sought out for their permission then go ahead and do it. I'm just telling you that we're not going to create rules forcing the entire site to do this unless specifically instructed to do so by the admin. Hell, if this were my idea or Missy Val's we wouldn't be imposing a rule of that magnitude without asking the admin to green light it first anyway.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Very well then.

 

[Journia]

hehehe