N/C Tickle torture from a victim's perspective

[Mimi]

Aun, I'm sorry you're feeling singled out and unfairly targeted here. The way you worded your views when you first weighed in on this thread put some people on the defensive, and that is why everyone is sort of focusing their arguments in your direction.

You, as a ticklephile, are uncomfortable tickling your child or allowing anyone else to do so. That's fine, and you're certainly allowed to do as you see fit with your own children. The problem came when you more or less made a blanket statement saying that anyone who does have a tickling fetish should not tickle their child since it's sexual and that's not something you share with your children. Your statements seemed as though you were insinuating that anyone with a tickling fetish who tickles their child is a pedophile and using their kids for sexual gratification. I don't think that is quite how you meant it, but that is how it came across, and that is why everyone got so upset in your direction.

I have a perfectly normal playful relationship with my kids. The same sort of relationship any NON-ticklephile parent would have with their kids. Never does even the remote sexual thought creep in when we are playing. I feel the same way when I tickle them as I do when I hug them. It's simply a loving gesture, nothing more. My sexual appetite for tickling stays strictly within the bounds of my bedroom, and my relationship with my partner. I can enjoy completely platonic playful tickling with friends and family without any sense of sexual arousal. And that is the case for most of us. Hence why there is nothing wrong with us tickling our children in a normal loving parental manner.

If someone does get sexually aroused tickling their child, then they need professional help. The problem is not the tickling, rather the mind of the adult being aroused by a child. They should not be near children at all, in any sense.

I hope that sort of clears things up without adding to the anger and hurt feelings already circulating within the thread. I tried to explain it as calmy and fairly as possible so as to not further upset anyone.

Mimi

 

[aun_existe_amor]

"Your statements seemed as though you were insinuating that anyone with a tickling fetish who tickles their child is a pedophile and using their kids for sexual gratification"

I thought I had already cleared that up but some people still don't seem to understand.

 

[ViperGTS]

Thank you Mimi. I'm not as eloquent as you, dear. 🙂

 

[leeboy]

You know what, I'm sick of this. I LOVE being tickled. And anyone who doesn't is missing out. Period ! I don't care if some loser chick was tickled and so "traumatized" by it that she has to go on a crusade to denounce it. She's probably ugly and unpopular and dumb and trying desparately to find a way to matter to someone in this world.

 

[TMF Jeff]

You know what, I'm sick of this. I LOVE being tickled. And anyone who doesn't is missing out. Period ! I don't care if some loser chick was tickled and so "traumatized" by it that she has to go on a crusade to denounce it. She's probably ugly and unpopular and dumb and trying desparately to find a way to matter to someone in this world.

That's the stupidest thing that's been said on this forum in a long time. I hope this was said in haste and not something you seriously believe.

 

[ViperGTS]

You know what, I'm sick of this. I LOVE being tickled. And anyone who doesn't is missing out. Period ! I don't care if some loser chick was tickled and so "traumatized" by it that she has to go on a crusade to denounce it. She's probably ugly and unpopular and dumb and trying desparately to find a way to matter to someone in this world.

I'm with Jeff. If you really meant that, you're a damned moron. And I can guarantee that no one on here will disagree with us. Cept maybe you.

If you weren't serious, then what is you opinion? We'd all be interested in hearing it. 🙂

 

[Italian_Touch]

I'm with Jeff. If you really meant that, you're a damned moron.

... or maybe he was just drunk... it's saturday night! After a good night of sleep and after the hangover will be passed he'll take it back!

 

[kis123]

I have no problem with that site but do remember that the these women mostly late 40's to late 50's where part of a social change or revolution in the late 1960's to 1970's they protested and fought to get their way and they did and more power to them but the way that Kittenfingures was slammed is very rude. Also if there was a mens only forum these women would be on the war path faster then Crazy Horse in the Battle of Little Big Horn, and really all this does is just widen the gender gap between women and men.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

It seems as if some of our younger members have issue with this type of forum. Boomers had a different experience than our younger set. Many of them paved the way so our younger generation can have the freedom of choice they have today. Women have only had the right to vote for 85 years, men have had rights since the beginning of time.

I have no problem with feminism, taken in the right context. But there are extremeists in every group-some of these women are just that. There needs to be balance in order to maintain control of the environment and respect of any movement. Being a black female, I come across extreme attitudes on a regular basis. I have learned over the years to pick my battles because you're not going to change people's minds by screaming in their faces. You're only going to reinforce their extreme beliefs just like the gentleman did with the women on that forum. Personally, I think they're stuck in a time-warp and like being there. Some people don't want to move on with their lives and like wallowing in their past pain. Get up, dust off, and move on!

OBleeding, I personally would WELCOME a men's only movement and would be one of the first to raise hell to new heights if some extremeist womens group would try to trash it. Men need a place to discuss issues only men understand. The purpose of feminism was to right wrongs, not for women to become men! I like the fact that we are different-I don't like not being paid equally for the same work or being called names for being a woman with an opinion. I enjoy being a chick just as much as you enjoy being a man-my desire for equality pretty much ends there. Our differences should be celebrated, not used as a weapon against each other. As someone previously posted, this only widens the gender gap.

 

[kis123]

You know what, I'm sick of this. I LOVE being tickled. And anyone who doesn't is missing out. Period ! I don't care if some loser chick was tickled and so "traumatized" by it that she has to go on a crusade to denounce it. She's probably ugly and unpopular and dumb and trying desparately to find a way to matter to someone in this world.

Wow! All I can say is......Wow!

 

[kis123]

Oh, and the NC tickling thing.....

I thoroughly agree with Bella........a lot of people don't seem to understand that being NC tickled is NOT a good thing at all! I went through a lot of it as a child, and it was used as a weapon against me in my marriage. It took a lot of time for me to trust someone to re-introduce me to tickling as fun, sensual, playful, and yes....sexual. I still have trust issues and absolutely refuse to be restrained because of the abuse in my past.

When you didn't ask to be tickled and it goes beyond a little poke or squeeze here and there, that "ler" has stepped into the realm of abuse. It makes a person feel violated to the point that one might feel during a rape. When you use tickling to dominate or control someone, it's just plain wrong!

And aun, I TOTALLY agree with you about your daughter. My kid is 16 years old now and is 6' tall so no one will try it on her now. But, when she was a little girl I did not let anyone tickle her other than me and her dad. You don't know who the fruitcakes are out here and I wasn't willing to find out the hard way. Many pedophiles use tickling to feel out their victims.

Maybe my stance was extreme, but she didn't get molested either.

 

[Italian_Touch]

Oh, and the NC tickling thing.....

I thoroughly agree with Bella........a lot of people don't seem to understand that being NC tickled is NOT a good thing at all! I went through a lot of it as a child, and it was used as a weapon against me in my marriage. It took a lot of time for me to trust someone to re-introduce me to tickling as fun, sensual, playful, and yes....sexual. I still have trust issues and absolutely refuse to be restrained because of the abuse in my past.

When you didn't ask to be tickled and it goes beyond a little poke or squeeze here and there, that "ler" has stepped into the realm of abuse. It makes a person feel violated to the point that one might feel during a rape. When you use tickling to dominate or control someone, it's just plain wrong!

And aun, I TOTALLY agree with you about your daughter. My kid is 16 years old now and is 6' tall so no one will try it on her now. But, when she was a little girl I did not let anyone tickle her other than me and her dad. You don't know who the fruitcakes are out here and I wasn't willing to find out the hard way. Many pedophiles use tickling to feel out their victims.

Maybe my stance was extreme, but she didn't get molested either.

I agree with almost everything you wrote but, people, please, stop comparing tickling with rape. Tickling could be engaged abusively, but it cannot be compared to rape. I think that these comparisons are detrimental for the community because they imply that when you tickle someone, it is as if you had sex with her/him, with all the implications (legally an not) that derive from it: is a casual poke to a friend of your harrassment? Or is it only if you are part of a community that has a tigle fetish, otherwise not? ...?!?

Just, don't do these comparisons. Finally, I find it quite unfair for women who actually got raped.

 

[TklNat]

Alright, here goes...

I'm a full-time lurker on these forums and have never really felt the inclination to post, but this time it's different. This is why:

I visit this forum regularly to read a bit about my fetish and other people's opinions and experiences with it. What makes it so enjoyable for me is the friendly and open atmosphere that has always been a hallmark of the TMF.

This is the first time I have seen so many personal attacks, poor judgements (that the respective posters wouldn't usually go droning about on end) and refusal to listen to each other in a single thread. So, please, for Christ's sake, take a step back, read the whole thing again and don't put things into each other's mouths. Why don't you try to understand each other, because if you don't, the whole discussion becomes a farce. Jeff and Mimi have already tried to calm things down, but many of you don't seem to be ready to give that a thought. You're talking past instead of to each other. At least that's my impression.

So, when I write things like these, I also have to put in my own two cents, I guess. This is gonna be long, so please bear with me.

1) I don't see what's wrong with an all-women forum. Maybe it's because I was raised in a country where segregation never was an issue, but I don't even see what would be wrong with a "whites-only" forum. If they want to be stupid dickheads wallowing in their own racism, let them, I just don't go there, they have a right to opinions I think are idiotic. I also think that women-only groups or forums have some validation for women who were abused and have an understandable, well, let's call it "scepticism" of males. Isabeau, I admire you for your openness, but maybe these women just want to talk about their experiences without men being "present". That this sort of thing wouldn't cut it for you, because you seem to seek solutions and not only comfort in shared bad experiences doesn't mean it has to be the same for them.
There is also no right to post on every forum on the 'net; a forum, which is owned by someone, is his own little dictatorship in a way. So, even if I didn't think it was okay, these "boomers" have every right to ban any member who is male.

2) Is "tickle torture" rape? No, not in the original sense of the word. No, not in the legal sense of the word, either, at least here in Austria. But "rape" is used colloquially for any form of sexually motivated abuse and/or harassment, and I think this is the context in which it was meant. Let's not be picky about words, that's just childish in my opinion. Apples and pears, I know, but I guess most of you also write e-mails, and not the more correct "electronic letters", don't you?

3) I don't claim to have any authority on this, but for me, "tickle torture" has to do with overpowering somebody through physical force or bondage and tickling him/her while he/she is helpless. Consensual or not. So, simply tickling anybody, including children, without inhibiting them from getting away, doesn't qualify as "torture" for me. I always thought that this was kind of a general consensus on the definition, but it seems I was very wrong there.

4) Tickling your children (*without* the torture-addendum) is perfectly normal in my opinion and only becomes questionable when the child in question does not like it. And don't try to sell me that's impossible to tell: I think it's always pretty clear with children whether they protest because it's part of the game or because they really mean it. One should know his own children well enough for that.
With tickle torture (no matter if fetish-induced or not) it's the other way round: There may be instances where the child enjoys it, but going with "better safe than sorry" I'd personally stay away from it completely.

5) @ aun & Viper: I understand both of you pretty well I guess, why don't you? I have no children, so I can only speculate here, but I can well imagine I could tickle my kids without getting aroused, just like I can kiss my little cousin without feeling something that shouldn't be. (BTW, I don't tickle her at all, because she doesn't seem to like it. Quod erat demonstrandum from above.) However, I can also imagine being shy about it because I am not sure what it will do to me and I don't want to go there, in case it's really the tickling alone that arouses me and not only the person it's done to. (Hell, I can get aroused from seeing people I find terribly unattractive getting tickled, so it's possible.)
This is not a question of "right" or "wrong", it's a question of what's right for one personally. Making sweeping generalisations in any direction won't lead anywhere.

6) Likewise, you can't say "tickling (now in the fetish sense) is this or that, period". Many people here seem to enjoy playful tickling the most, but that doesn't mean it's the case with everybody. My girlfriend and I like harder play, and, excuse me, if tickling her to her absolute limits while she can barely move doesn't have to do with getting off on domination (or control) and some level of sadism I honestly don't know what does. I am happy I found a partner who was more than willing to explore this fetish of mine to the fullest, but I (and she, too) still acknowledge the psychological background of what we are doing, the "darker side of the kink", as someone put it. That we both enjoy it that way doesn't take away the elements I mentioned, nor does it mean that this version of the fetish, and this version only, is what tickling is.

7) That said, I would be surprised if a woman that has been abused in her past was not afraid of me if she knew these "controlling" and "sadistic" facets of myself. Wouldn't you be?

8) And last but not least: Yes, I also think bj is just a troll.

Well, I'm done. I hope nobody took anything of this personal, because that certainly was not intended, but I just had to get this off my chest.

Over and out,

TklNat

 

[aun_existe_amor]

Oh, and the NC tickling thing.....

I thoroughly agree with Bella........a lot of people don't seem to understand that being NC tickled is NOT a good thing at all! I went through a lot of it as a child, and it was used as a weapon against me in my marriage. It took a lot of time for me to trust someone to re-introduce me to tickling as fun, sensual, playful, and yes....sexual. I still have trust issues and absolutely refuse to be restrained because of the abuse in my past.

When you didn't ask to be tickled and it goes beyond a little poke or squeeze here and there, that "ler" has stepped into the realm of abuse. It makes a person feel violated to the point that one might feel during a rape. When you use tickling to dominate or control someone, it's just plain wrong!

And aun, I TOTALLY agree with you about your daughter. My kid is 16 years old now and is 6' tall so no one will try it on her now. But, when she was a little girl I did not let anyone tickle her other than me and her dad. You don't know who the fruitcakes are out here and I wasn't willing to find out the hard way. Many pedophiles use tickling to feel out their victims.

Maybe my stance was extreme, but she didn't get molested either.

Thank you Kis 🙂

 

[Italian_Touch]

I'm a full-time lurker on these forums and have never really felt the inclination to post, but this time it's different.

Good outing, TklNat, well done.
As for me, since the thread appears quite aggravated, I'll not add further comments ("I want my two cents back!!!" LOL)

Bye all!!!!

 

[steph]

No. I don't understand your question. What did I say?
XOXO

I'll happily explain anything you don't understand

 

[TMF Jeff]

No. I don't understand your question. What did I say?
XOXO

If you two want to continue this conversation, take it private please.

 

[venray]

Forcing ones self on someone in ANY manner is wrong. No matter what the reason. Whether it is sexual or playful (in your eyes) or whatever other reason one might use to justify it. If it is unwanted by the recipient it is wrong.

I fail to see how so many can defend such actions because THEY dont see any harm. Others do and have that right.

I won't comment on specific posts or posters here as it would serve no purpose judging from the way everyone seems to be on the defensive.

Tickling IS just sexual....to many...

Tickling IS merely playful....to many...

Tickling is both of the above...to many..

We must learn to accept our differences and be able to discuss our feelings freely without fear of having someone jump down our throats to make a point before we can truly understand this "kink" of ours...

As for the Boomer site, why would anyone think that someone posting on a vanilla site about how good our fetish can be, would be met with open arms and understanding....?

It really puzzles me how we who claim to be so misunderstood truly do not understand where others are coming from......

Ray

 

[Hosetickler23]

Well this has put many of us into a Civil War and a great President once put it "A house divided against it self cannot stand."

Ok lets just put it on the line anyone who forces them selves onto another is in many states considered Sexual Abuse/Assult or Assult or even Rape and theirfor Non Consentual Sex, tickling, or anything is not good at all.

To stiffel another persons opinions is just as bad a Constitutionally allowed freedom in the Bill of Rights "The Freedom of Speech." and as everyone knows opinions are like @$$holes everyone has one. And we should all remeber that this is America and anyone can say just about any fool thing they want to. Let people think what they want. I really could careless about a bunch of bitter women with their minds closed tighter then Ft. Knox want to rant about and if any of you are reading this go lock your selves under that rock you've livin' under for the last 40+ years. But don't attack my freedoms. God Bless America

 

[Horatio]

Yikes!!

Folks:

I just looked at this thread and am sorry I started it. I had no idea things would go this far. I naively assumed people would look at the boomer forum, ponder it for a minute or so, and then let it go.

My bad.

 

[ViperGTS]

Well this has put many of us into a Civil War and a great President once put it "A house divided against it self cannot stand."

Ok lets just put it on the line anyone who forces them selves onto another is in many states considered Sexual Abuse/Assult or Assult or even Rape and theirfor Non Consentual Sex, tickling, or anything is not good at all.

To stiffel another persons opinions is just as bad a Constitutionally allowed freedom in the Bill of Rights "The Freedom of Speech." and as everyone knows opinions are like @$$holes everyone has one. And we should all remeber that this is America and anyone can say just about any fool thing they want to. Let people think what they want. I really could careless about a bunch of bitter women with their minds closed tighter then Ft. Knox want to rant about and if any of you are reading this go lock your selves under that rock you've livin' under for the last 40+ years. But don't attack my freedoms. God Bless America

I hate to be the one to break this to you, bro.

Your freedoms are invalid here. The United States Constitution holds NO jurisdiction over what is contained in a privately owned and operated website. You have no freedom of speech, no freedom of any kind here unless it is given to you by the moderators of the website. This is not a democracy. This is a dictatorship.

As much as I dislike what those women are saying, and as much as I'd like to see each one of them shove it as far up their asses as possible, there's nothing we can do to force them. Their website is owned and operated privately and what they say goes, no matter how skewed or wrong we feel they are.

 

[darkscar]

Bah they dont bother me at all. If they want to hate ticlking and put it down let them. I dont know them and i dont care to know them. Every body is entitled to there own oppinion. heh an all womens form huh? they problably have guys on there acting like women anyway. you never know whats really on the other side of the keyboard

 

[BellaRisa]

Bah they dont bother me at all. If they want to hate ticlking and put it down let them. I dont know them and i dont care to know them.

I'm starting to think that some folks here never really learned to read and comprehend.

For the last time: the women on that board never said they hate tickling. Not once. They said they don't like ABUSIVE tickling. Some of them felt traumatized by ABUSIVE tickling in their past and thought they were in a safe place to talk about that amongst other women who likely had simialr memories. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and frankly I applaud them. And what's truly amusing is that anyone here who actually reads and understands what they just read would agree with those ladies.

Bella