Police shoots 22 yo in the back while he was laying face down on the ground.

[the wiz]

http://www.ktvu.com/video/18409133/index.htmlabout:Tabs/index.html

This video is very graphic, and you will see the shooting as it occurred.

 

[punkrockergirl]

he was told to stay still and he rolled over it was justified.. the cop cant take the risk of him trying to pull a gun.. when told dont move dont move i would have done the same thing

 

[the wiz]

he was told to stay still and he rolled over it was justified.. the cop cant take the risk of him trying to pull a gun.. when told dont move dont move i would have done the same thing

the cop stood up, pull his gun and shoot him in the back; while another cop already had his head held down.

also did you see the express on the cops face once it was done?

there no justification for shooting someone in the back like that.

 

[punkrockergirl]

when your put into that situation and you have to fear for your life you tell me what you think is justified... i dont see anything wrong with what he did

 

[..Glamorous..]

Isn't that wonderful.

 

[the wiz]

when your put into that situation and you have to fear for your life you tell me what you think is justified... i dont see anything wrong with what he did

So taking his baton and hitting him a couple of times wasn't a better ideal, tasing him wasn't a better ideal. A bunch of cops standing around could restrain one person who was not fighting back?

He need to be arrested and charged with 1st degree man slaughter.

 

[the wiz]

I disagree with you point of view; however, I do respect it.

 

[punkrockergirl]

you gotta remember in that situation you only have a split second to make a decsion and act on it.. he chose to shoot and did it.. we wont know what would have happened had he not shot him but we could be talking about a dead cop instead.. not saying my opinion is better or any more relevant than yours but you wont understand what goes through your mind in that situation unless your put into it

 

[the wiz]

you gotta remember in that situation you only have a split second to make a decsion and act on it.. he chose to shoot and did it.. we wont know what would have happened had he not shot him but we could be talking about a dead cop instead.. not saying my opinion is better or any more relevant than yours but you wont understand what goes through your mind in that situation unless your put into it

Been there, guy was trying to steal out of a parked car in a parking lot i was patrolling. I was armed with a 38, when I walked up on him he turned around and look me dead in my eyes. We stood there for a few moments which seems like hours.

I had my hand on my gun, however, since I wasn't a police officer; I known I could not shot him unless he had a weapon in his hands, and coming at me; which he didn't. All i could do was to let him run away and called the cops .

also, recently when coming out of my home some young punks was trying to steal my car out of my driveway. I had my 40 cal on me, again, according to the law, unless he made a move toward me I could not shot him.

So, i have some ideal about when you can or can not shoot someone.

 

[punkrockergirl]

Been there, guy was trying to steal out of a parked car in a parking lot i was patrolling. I was armed with a 38, when I walked up on him he turned around and look me dead in my eyes. We stood there for a few moments which seems like hours.

I had my hand on my gun, however, since I wasn't a police officer; I known I could not shot him unless he had a weapon in his hands, and coming at me; which he didn't. All i could do was to let him run away and called the cops .

also, recently when coming out of my home some young punks was trying to steal my car out of my driveway. I had my 40 cal on me, again, according to the law, unless he made a move toward me I could not shot him.

So, i have some ideal about when you can or can not shoot someone.

yes but your not an officer a person is quicker to shoot someone of the law because they are a threat... being through what i have i understand the not thinking about shooting or not.. i respect his descion and i think that a lot of people need to look into it more or be more educated on how you would feel in that situation before passing judgement on the guy

 

[the wiz]

yes but your not an officer a person is quicker to shoot someone of the law because they are a threat... being through what i have i understand the not thinking about shooting or not.. i respect his descion and i think that a lot of people need to look into it more or be more educated on how you would feel in that situation before passing judgement on the guy

i have to disagree, studies shows more non-police officers are murdered in greater numbers than police officers. in STL over the last 20 years, there have been a total of 1500 murders of non-police officers, compared to 125 cops murdered in the pass 100 years.

 

[punkrockergirl]

i have to disagree, studies shows more non-police officers are murdered in greater numbers than police officers. in STL over the last 20 years, there have been a total of 1500 murders of non-police officers, compared to 125 cops murdered in the pass 100 years.

still would you say its more dangerous being an officer or a civilian

 

[the wiz]

yes but your not an officer a person is quicker to shoot someone of the law because they are a threat... being through what i have i understand the not thinking about shooting or not.. i respect his descion and i think that a lot of people need to look into it more or be more educated on how you would feel in that situation before passing judgement on the guy

i have to disagree, studies shows more non-police officers are murdered in greater numbers than police officers. in STL over the last 20 years, there have been a total of 1500 murders of non-police officers, compared to 125 cops murdered in the pass 100 years.

police are trained to make quick decision under high pressures situations; they are require to do drills simulating many of the things they will encounter on the streets. including this same scenario.

there is nothing in the books which allow an officer to stand over someone with them back facing the pavement and shoot them in the back specially when another officer has his hands and knee on his neck.

 

[punkrockergirl]

i have to disagree, studies shows more non-police officers are murdered in greater numbers than police officers. in STL over the last 20 years, there have been a total of 1500 murders of non-police officers, compared to 125 cops murdered in the pass 100 years.

police are trained to make quick decision under high pressures situations; they are require to do drills simulating many of the things they will encounter on the streets. including this same scenario.

there is nothing in the books which allow an officer to stand over someone with them back facing the pavement and shoot them in the back specially when another officer has his hands and knee on his neck.

ive had this training and as i said i would have gone about it the same way and i cant fault him for worrying about himself and not the perp

 

[the wiz]

from youtube

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Video: Calif. cop shoots apparently helpless man in the back
David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Published: Monday January 5, 2009




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Two videos showing a Bay Area Rapid Transit police officer fatally shooting an unarmed, cooperating 22-year-old man have surfaced, thanks to a vigilant teen and an anonymous cameraman.

According to officials, five officers arrived at a subway station around 2 a.m. in response to reports of fighting on a train. Officers handcuffed a group of suspects, and detained the soon-to-be victim, Oscar Grant III.

In both videos, though detained, Grant had clearly not been cuffed.

Mario Pangelina Jr., aunt to Grant's four-year-old daughter, witnessed the events leading up to the shooting.

"First, an officer grabbed Oscar by the neck and pushed him against the wall," the Oakland Tribune quoted her as saying. "Oscar didn't fight him, but he didn't go down either. He was like, 'What did I do?' Then another officer came up with his Taser and held it right in his face. Oscar said, 'Please don't shoot me, please don't Taser me, I have a daughter,' over and over again, real fast, and he sat down."

 

[Artoo]

still would you say its more dangerous being an officer or a civilian

In this case? The civilian. Give a power-hungry cop a gun or a taser, and he'll use and abuse it. Obviously not all cops are like this, but you get cases like this cropping up all the time.

 

[punkrockergirl]

ok i dont know why u posted it again.. i saw it and i agree with what happened... but i guess we can agree to disagree

 

[the wiz]

ok i dont know why u posted it again.. i saw it and i agree with what happened... but i guess we can agree to disagree

what i posted was the unedited version from youtube, including the point of view from one of the people in the station at the time.

 

[FlockOfSeagulls]

I can honestly see boths sides of this debate. It would be a tough situation to be put into, evidently the officer felt as if his life were in danger

 

[Mister Scruff]

when your put into that situation and you have to fear for your life you tell me what you think is justified... i dont see anything wrong with what he did

Anyone who fears for their life in a situation over which they have so much control is far too jumpy to wear a badge. The bloke was lying down, two policemen standing over him.

Of course the officer in question recently became a father and also various other stupid reasons, so there's obviously not going to be any charges pressed ^_^


EDIT:

http://www.ktvu.com/video/18418661/index.html


2:43; Ex-BART police officer and self defence instructor says it wasn't a deadly force situation, and the bloke probably thought his pistol was his Taser. Given the oopinion of this experienced person, and the policeman's reaction to the shot, I think this is a case of "don't attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity". Or "poor personal admin". The only problem is that poor personal admin has cost a 4 year old girl her father, so something has to be done.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

What happened is sad no matter how you view it. I wish there was better video. There were several things that I thought I saw but can't be sure of, given the picture quality...or lack thereof.

Still, you have a crowd of loud people yelling at the cops, some circling in close until the backup got on scene. (I thought I saw a gun in the hand of one of them...grey sweatshirt, back to the camera...towards the beginning of the video.) Before taking the guy down to the floor, the cops had taken up defensive positions around the group that had been detained. That suggests that they already felt their own safety to be threatened.

It appeared from one angle that the suspect was kicking at the cop sitting on his back, which would explain why he rose and stepped back. When he got kicked again, he likely fired on reflex.

It's difficult for me to hear people being so quick to condemn. I have friends in law enforcement. I pray for their safety every day. After losing two of them while on duty in unrelated incidents, I'm not as quick to judge cops as I once was...or as quick to take them for granted.

My first question is the same as they'll be asking themselves. What the hell just happened?! Unless you have a dirty or just plain evil cop, they won't be taking this lightly. They'll be questioning themselves on every step of what took place, torturing themselves with thoughts of what might have been done differently.

We have the luxury of watching a video over and over to see what else might or might not be there. They have a split second to determine if fluent events pose a risk and if so to react appropriately. I hope that more video turns up. It may help to answer some of the questions that will be flying around. But, if I saw things correctly, I don't believe that charges will be brought. It appeared to be self-defense.

All those involved are in my prayers, either way.

 

[scarecrow]

im not going into the actual case itself even though its like 5 mins drive from my house to that bart station,but being in the army were faced with stuff like that all the time,to the point where we even have to judge if people with guns are a threat,you go into a house and theres a dude with a gun,well he may be allowed to have it,they are allowed one kalashnikov with 2 magazines in iraq per household so just cuz he has a weapon,you have to decide,is he pointing it at you,is it loaded,is he aiming at someone else or he just kinda standing there with it,and then you have to decide whether or not to kill him or her in literally a fraction of a second,you take too long and you could die i dont but personally id rather kill them then get shot myself,im not saying whether or not the dude in bart was a threat or not,i really dont care,but making life or death choices in the blink of an eye isnt easy to do,people make mistakes,again im not saying whatthe cop did was right or wrong

 

[maniactickler]

Hard to tell from that video. not enough details. maybe the suspect was reaching for something? if thats the case then im ok with the shooting, but again, not enough info to make a clear call.

 

[the wiz]

I too have family members and friends in law enforcement; however, i also have sons from age of 28 - 18; they all was knows to respect the authority of the police for the simple fact something like this could happen.

however, over the last 15 years, there has been tapes from the Rodney king beating; to an officer picking up and slamming a cuffed suspect head first on the car and continually punching him in the head.

from hearing police shooting a 98 year old handicap women in hear wheel chair when the warrant they had was bogus; to the police shooting a 22 year old man for "stealing his car in his own driveway", from the shooting of a African man in NY when he was holding is wallet (41 times) to the shooting of a 19 year girl having a seizer in the passenger sit of a car. to the shooting of a man on his bachelor party.

I again the police has a dangerous job; however, it comes with the terriory. it sad that at the age of 46, i fear being shot by the police just as much as i fear being shot by someone trying to rob me. damn if i do and damn if i don't

I agree with manic, if he was reaching for a weapon then yes shot him; however, the cop at his head was watching everything that was going on. just when the cop was about to shoot he stood up and step away.

What happened is sad no matter how you view it. I wish there was better video. There were several things that I thought I saw but can't be sure of, given the picture quality...or lack thereof.

Still, you have a crowd of loud people yelling at the cops, some circling in close until the backup got on scene. (I thought I saw a gun in the hand of one of them...grey sweatshirt, back to the camera...towards the beginning of the video.) Before taking the guy down to the floor, the cops had taken up defensive positions around the group that had been detained. That suggests that they already felt their own safety to be threatened.

It appeared from one angle that the suspect was kicking at the cop sitting on his back, which would explain why he rose and stepped back. When he got kicked again, he likely fired on reflex.

It's difficult for me to hear people being so quick to condemn. I have friends in law enforcement. I pray for their safety every day. After losing two of them while on duty in unrelated incidents, I'm not as quick to judge cops as I once was...or as quick to take them for granted.

My first question is the same as they'll be asking themselves. What the hell just happened?! Unless you have a dirty or just plain evil cop, they won't be taking this lightly. They'll be questioning themselves on every step of what took place, torturing themselves with thoughts of what might have been done differently.

We have the luxury of watching a video over and over to see what else might or might not be there. They have a split second to determine if fluent events pose a risk and if so to react appropriately. I hope that more video turns up. It may help to answer some of the questions that will be flying around. But, if I saw things correctly, I don't believe that charges will be brought. It appeared to be self-defense.

All those involved are in my prayers, either way.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

I agree that there've been far too many cases where abuse of authority is the case. I also agree that the danger comes with the territory...though I fail to see how that should exclude an officer from having the right to defend themself. That would be like asking firemen to go in and fight a fire with no hose or anything...or to not vacate the premises if it's about to cave in.

My point was that this didn't appear to me to be one of those times. I could be totally nuts. Other footage or better versions of the current footage may well prove me wrong. But, that's my impression after watching it several times.

BTW, in the youtube video that you put up, the guy who appeared to have a gun is about 12 seconds in. The female officer takes off after him as backup arrives. He appears to be the suspect cuffed on the ground closer to the train later in the footage.