Police shoots 22 yo in the back while he was laying face down on the ground.

[badreligion]

the cop stood up, pull his gun and shoot him in the back; while another cop already had his head held down.

also did you see the express on the cops face once it was done?

there no justification for shooting someone in the back like that.

Id take her word for it she knows what shes talkin about

 

[KrazieDog]

I won't take anybody's "word" for it when each person's "opinion" is all that is being stated here. I'll chime as another who has done the work, gone through the training and worked the same kind of scene. I don't know what is going through that officer's head, because I'm not a mind reader. Is the fact it happened, sad? Without a doubt. I think with that many officers on scene, he could have been subdued quicker and better. But the event in question is the shooting. Its hard to see everything clearly from the camera angles, but this WILL be a highly debated case because there is NEVER this much coverage on an event like this. They were lucky that this many people caught in on tape in different angles and the tapes will be studied extensively. Did he just "lay there"? Absofuckinglutely not. At the time of the shooting the suspect rolled over quickly grabbing at the officers.

The video I'm posting below is a newer video which IMO shows the best angel yet. Look closely at 40 seconds, the guy on the ground IS still fighting and reaching for the cops, and when the shooter is pulling his gun, you can see what looks like the suspect's hand reach up at this thigh near his gun belt as if he "could" have been reaching for his gun, in which case, the cop "may" have felt in danger. I'm not saying I agree, just cause I did the work, nor am I running to call a lawyer. I'm just showing another point of view. I'm speaking clearly for those that may run in here to make assumptions about what I'm saying; I'm not condoning or justifying the shooting. The fact is, I've also had someone reach for my gun after just such a fight, and luckily nothing came of it other than me putting my forearm through his face. But again, everything, including video and witness and police statements need to be reviewed thoroughly. Here is another angle.

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[McNoodle]

I'm not going to comment on the shooting itself but I wish they had of cuffed him immediately.

 

[punkrockergirl]

as ive said already here with myself being in a law enforcement job if i had a room full of suspects even if there were other officers around.. if somebody jumped up like that i would have shot as well he could have been grabbing for a gun or anything you have no idea what these people are capable of.. and remeber hindsight is always 20/20 you may think he should have tased him or whatever but a taser doesnt effect people the same.. there are some people who it hardly effect at all and if he was one of those people and was pulling for a gun the cop would have been shot and you would be saying the dumbass cop should have just shot him.. the cop was looking out for himself and thats always the right thing to do

 

[Brock Samson]

No way that 5 officers can't detain one man without shooting him. That being said, let's get the obvious questions out of the way. If he was being placed under arrest or being legally detained, he should have been cuffed. That's first and foremost. The part that you don't see would be, and should be, the part where the police officers pat down the guy and check him for weapons/drugs/drug paraphernalia, which is SOP in an arrest/detainment. Nonlethal force before lethal force: this is instilled into every training regiment. Lethal force is the last option. Add these things together with video and witness testimony, and you have a clear cut case of the police fucking up. Again.

And yes, I have been in that situation, quite a few times, so I know that this split second decision to use NONLETHAL force should have been an easy and clear one, what with all the training that the officer has gone through. Sounds like a case of another trigger-happy cop who was way too freakin panicky and decided that a guy held by one cop and watched over by another, with two more watching the crowd with guns drawn, just wasn't enough to make him feel safe.

 

[punkrockergirl]

No way that 5 officers can't detain one man without shooting him. That being said, let's get the obvious questions out of the way. If he was being placed under arrest or being legally detained, he should have been cuffed. That's first and foremost. The part that you don't see would be, and should be, the part where the police officers pat down the guy and check him for weapons/drugs/drug paraphernalia, which is SOP in an arrest/detainment. Nonlethal force before lethal force: this is instilled into every training regiment. Lethal force is the last option. Add these things together with video and witness testimony, and you have a clear cut case of the police fucking up. Again.

And yes, I have been in that situation, quite a few times, so I know that this split second decision to use NONLETHAL force should have been an easy and clear one, what with all the training that the officer has gone through. Sounds like a case of another trigger-happy cop who was way too freakin panicky and decided that a guy held by one cop and watched over by another, with two more watching the crowd with guns drawn, just wasn't enough to make him feel safe.

no i didnt see him be patted down but if he was then your completly right and i would take back all i said but i didnt see that so i have to assume it didnt happen

 

[Brock Samson]

Let's not assume that one of the most important and greatly stressed parts of police procedure was completely ignored by officers who look as though they have at least a few years under their belts. I mean, not all 5 of them, anyway. Hopefully this is asked in the inquiry and by IA. That alone is a suspension-worthy offense, given the outcome.

 

[punkrockergirl]

Let's not assume that one of the most important and greatly stressed parts of police procedure was completely ignored by officers who look as though they have at least a few years under their belts. I mean, not all 5 of them, anyway. Hopefully this is asked in the inquiry and by IA. That alone is a suspension-worthy offense, given the outcome.

thats true.. that is the first thing they teach you in training.. so i guess if he didnt thats his own fault but if he did and still shot him then yes he was jumpy and trigger happy and someone like that doesnt belong in blue

 

[CrystalLight]

The cop got jumpy. You're trying to contain a group of men, surrounded by a shitload of bystanders. You're not going to be thinking. Just as he wasn't.

Shooting him was fucking stupid. He could've just as easily maced him or tasered him. But, like most cases, it will more then likely be justified as it almost always is in court. Can't have the boys in blue (or black) being made out to be monsters, now can we? It's not good for image.

 

[punkrockergirl]

The cop got jumpy. You're trying to contain a group of men, surrounded by a shitload of bystanders. You're not going to be thinking. Just as he wasn't.

Shooting him was fucking stupid. He could've just as easily maced him or tasered him. But, like most cases, it will more then likely be justified as it almost always is in court. Can't have the boys in blue (or black) being made out to be monsters, now can we? It's not good for image.

yeah thats what its all about image right.. i mean god forbid the cop be worried about himself.. and yes its justified because the difference between the cop and the guy on the ground is that the cop protects and serves and the guy on the ground is a criminal

 

[CrystalLight]

yeah thats what its all about image right.. i mean god forbid the cop be worried about himself..

Yes, because with two other cops around him in close quarters, along with all the others that the girl showed, he was so unprotected. 🙄

If you know so much about being trained, then you know that you don't shoot a person just because they give a struggle.

and yes its justified because the difference between the cop and the guy on the ground is that the cop protects and serves and the guy on the ground is a criminal

Yes, possibly killing someone because they struggle with no clear forewarning of the fact that he will get shot. That is an excellent image of justification.

 

[punkrockergirl]

Yes, because with two other cops around him in close quarters, along with all the others that the girl showed, he was so unprotected. 🙄

If you know so much about being trained, then you know that you don't shoot a person just because they give a struggle.



Yes, possibly killing someone because they struggle with no clear forewarning of the fact that he will get shot. That is an excellent image of justification.

how many people are around has nothing to do with saftey if the guy pulls a gun it doesnt matter how many people are around... and yes you do shoot if they give a struggle and you fear for your life .. you taze or mace when they resist and are not a serious threat... and no they dont need a warning for it to be justified he was told to stay still and down and he rolled towards the cop .. the rest is what the cops chooses to do

 

[CrystalLight]

how many people are around has nothing to do with saftey if the guy pulls a gun it doesnt matter how many people are around...

It doesn't? How doesn't it? How does it not matter if you have one cop on his left and one at his back, he's going to get shot in the process of pulling anything out before the cop gets shot.

And if how many people are around has nothing to do with safety, then.. um.. why is the phrase "safety in numbers" one that happens to be tired and true?

and yes you do shoot if they give a struggle and you fear for your life .. you taze or mace when they resist and are not a serious threat...

And because he struggled that instantly made him a serious threat? That justified being shot? Is that what you would tell the family of a perp you shot because he shifted his ass underneath you?

and no they dont need a warning for it to be justified he was told to stay still and down and he rolled towards the cop .. the rest is what the cops chooses to do

Huh. I totally must have missed him rolling towards the cop, when so many were hovering right over him.

And the rest is NOT what the cop chooses to do, it's what's smart and what he did was stupid.

 

[punkrockergirl]

It doesn't? How doesn't it? How does it not matter if you have one cop on his left and one at his back, he's going to get shot in the process of pulling anything out before the cop gets shot.

And if how many people are around has nothing to do with safety, then.. um.. why is the phrase "safety in numbers" one that happens to be tired and true?



And because he struggled that instantly made him a serious threat? That justified being shot? Is that what you would tell the family of a perp you shot because he shifted his ass underneath you?



Huh. I totally must have missed him rolling towards the cop, when so many were hovering right over him.

And the rest is NOT what the cop chooses to do, it's what's smart and what he did was stupid.

and when you put on a badge and and carry around a gun dealing with criminals on a daily basis you can tell me how easy it is to feel threatened, until then you wont understand a situation like this.. hindsight is 20/20 and the cop had a split second to react and he made the right choice

 

[Artoo]

.. you taze or mace when they resist and are not a serious threat...

Lolwut? Did I miss something here?
Surely you mean when they are a serious threat, or is policing in the US actually that trigger happy? It's not like it is in the movies, y'know...

 

[CrystalLight]

and when you put on a badge and and carry around a gun dealing with criminals on a daily basis you can tell me how easy it is to feel threatened, until then you wont understand a situation like this.. hindsight is 20/20 and the cop had a split second to react and he made the right choice

I don't need to put a badge on to deal with criminals on a daily basis. And I'm fairly knowledged in that whole threat area considering my area of the city.

It's not about "understanding", it's about common sense. And he wasn't using it.

The cop has a split second to react, just as much as anybody else. He had no right to shoot, period. Mace or Taser would have sufficed just fine.

 

[punkrockergirl]

Lolwut? Did I miss something here?
Surely you mean when they are a serious threat, or is policing in the US actually that trigger happy? It's not like it is in the movies, y'know...

i know its my job.. when they are a mild threat you use mace or the taser if its a serious threat you pull a gun... dont have to use it but you pull it.. in this case he chose to shoot

 

[CrystalLight]

Lolwut? Did I miss something here?
Surely you mean when they are a serious threat, or is policing in the US actually that trigger happy? It's not like it is in the movies, y'know...

Or CSI or Miami Vice or Cops. You are absolutely correct.

And dear God, NO. That is not how it's like in the US.

 

[Artoo]

i know its my job.. when they are a mild threat you use mace or the taser if its a serious threat you pull a gun... dont have to use it but you pull it.. in this case he chose to shoot

And you consider the guy facedown on the floor surrounded by policefolk a serious threat?

 

[punkrockergirl]

I don't need to put a badge on to deal with criminals on a daily basis. And I'm fairly knowledged in that whole threat area considering my area of the city.

It's not about "understanding", it's about common sense. And he wasn't using it.

The cop has a split second to react, just as much as anybody else. He had no right to shoot, period. Mace or Taser would have sufficed just fine.

i respect your opinion.. and you dont have to think anything of mine but you wont understand until your in that situation.. ive been shot before because of my not paying attention and not reacting and since then when on the job im always on top of things and im not going to condem this guy for doing his job.. i have no idea what he was thinking but he felt threatened enough to shoot

 

[punkrockergirl]

And you consider the guy facedown on the floor surrounded by policefolk a serious threat?

i dont but he did and i cant blame him for it i have no idea what he was thinking but as i said before he was apprently threatend by something

 

[CrystalLight]

i respect your opinion.. and you dont have to think anything of mine but you wont understand until your in that situation.. ive been shot before because of my not paying attention and not reacting and since then when on the job im always on top of things and im not going to condem this guy for doing his job.. i have no idea what he was thinking but he felt threatened enough to shoot

Again, you don't need to be wearing a uniform to be in that type of situation.

Yeah, that's all well and good. You're incredibly wrong, but it's been an intriguing discussion absolutely. 🙂

He wasn't thinking. He had 500 things going around his head at once and figured shoot first, ask questions later. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

[KrazieDog]

Lolwut? Did I miss something here?
Surely you mean when they are a serious threat, or is policing in the US actually that trigger happy? It's not like it is in the movies, y'know...

No Ru, she is speaking her opinion. I will speak from carrying the badge and the gun. Without all the evidence and testimonies in she is rushing out to defend her profession. What happens if that cop testifies his gun went off when he unholstered? Is is still justified? My opinion, and that is all I will offer at this point is a very unfortunate thing happened to a young man in that station, even if he brought it on by being stupid and grabbing for that officer's weapon. I would assume that cop feels pretty damn bad. But again, even that is "opinion".

 

[Artoo]

i respect your opinion.. and you dont have to think anything of mine but you wont understand until your in that situation.. ive been shot before because of my not paying attention and not reacting and since then when on the job im always on top of things and im not going to condem this guy for doing his job.. i have no idea what he was thinking but he felt threatened enough to shoot

The point, though, is that what he was thinking and what actually is the case are, in this case, two completely separate things. Ergo he was not doing his job properly, and should be disciplined accordingly.

My mind goes back to the unlawful shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes on the London Underground. When he was on the floor, he was shot 5 times in the head by police, completely unnecesarily, as they already had complete empowerment over him.

 

[punkrockergirl]

Again, you don't need to be wearing a uniform to be in that type of situation. :facepalm:

Yeah, that's all well and good. You're incredibly wrong, but it's been an intriguing discussion absolutely. 🙂

He wasn't thinking. He had 500 things going around his head at once and figured shoot first, ask questions later. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

yeah you really do .. how often do you have the chance to decide to shoot or not .. you dont as a cop it happens all the time, i dont mean being threatened i mean the option and you will probaly never have that option so you wont get it and you will never be able to say what you would do if you were in his shoes