Police shoots 22 yo in the back while he was laying face down on the ground.

[Artoo]

No Ru, she is speaking her opinion. I will speak from carrying the badge and the gun. Without all the evidence and testimonies in she is rushing out to defend her profession. What happens if that cop testifies his gun went off when he unholstered? Is is still justified? My opinion, and that is all I will offer at this point is a very unfortunate thing happened to a young man in that station, even if he brought it on by being stupid and grabbing for that officer's weapon. I would assume that cop feels pretty damn bad. But again, even that is "opinion".

Of course, Jay, we're all giving our opinions here 🙂
Regardless of the reason behind why the gun went off etc, it is still the case that an unnecessary death has taken place, the policeman holding the gun is accountable for that, to whatever degree.

 

[punkrockergirl]

The point, though, is that what he was thinking and what actually is the case are, in this case, two completely separate things. Ergo he was not doing his job properly, and should be disciplined accordingly.
My mind goes back to the unlawful shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes on the London Underground. When he was on the floor, he was shot 5 times in the head by police, completely unnecesarily, as they already had complete empowerment over him.

wrong he did exaclty as he was supposed to, ensure his saftey and that of his fellow officers.. and the later is completly wrong shooting five times is unecesary but that isnt what happened here.. he shot once and whose to say he shot to kill.. he just shot a threatening suspect.. and its not your or even mu place to decide if the guy on the ground was a threat the officer decided

 

[CrystalLight]

yeah you really do .. how often do you have the chance to decide to shoot or not

I'm sure gangbangers and Mafioso's can speak to this enough for you. And even still, if you're a police officer you have to be even more alert as to what to DO in a situation. Shooting at anything that moves is not being alert, it's being sloppy.

you dont as a cop it happens all the time, i dont mean being threatened i mean the option and you will probaly never have that option so you wont get it and you will never be able to say what you would do if you were in his shoes

I don't care if it happens all the time as Jesus Christ. Anything in this world is a possible optional happenstance. Cop/Jesus/Pope or not.

I will never be.. able.. wha? Hypothetically, I could all day long. I would've made damn sure I had all of them cuffed, instead of dicking around. And then if he caused shit I woulda maced his ass.

 

[punkrockergirl]

I'm sure gangbangers and Mafioso's can speak to this enough for you. And even still, if you're a police officer you have to be even more alert as to what to DO in a situation. Shooting at anything that moves is not being alert, it's being sloppy.



I don't care if it happens all the time as Jesus Christ. Anything in this world is a possible optional happenstance. Cop/Jesus/Pope or not.

I will never be.. able.. wha? Hypothetically, I could all day long. I would've made damn sure I had all of them cuffed, instead of dicking around. And then if he caused shit I woulda maced his ass.

hypothetically yes you can say you would do this and this etc etc but you wont know for real.. and it is the cops fault they werent cuffed, had they been this wouldnt have happened but they werent

 

[CrystalLight]

hypothetically yes you can say you would do this and this etc etc but you wont know for real.. and it is the cops fault they werent cuffed, had they been this wouldnt have happened but they werent

Thank you for agreeing with everything I've basically been saying! 🙂

 

[Artoo]

hypothetically yes you can say you would do this and this etc etc but you wont know for real.. and it is the cops fault they werent cuffed, had they been this wouldnt have happened but they werent

And because it was the cops fault that they guy wasn't cuffed, none of them were doing their job properly, and therefore they should be disciplined accordingly.

 

[punkrockergirl]

i agree it the cops being sloppy that they werent cuffed and taken care of but i dont fault him for shooting.. the guy was a threat plain and simple.. a free perp is a threat especially after being told dont move and they move you have no idea what they are capable of and he made sure he wasnt going to be capable of anything

 

[punkrockergirl]

And because it was the cops fault that they guy wasn't cuffed, none of them were doing their job properly, and therefore they should be disciplined accordingly.

hes not going to be disciplined for not cuffing the guy and he isnt going to be disciplined for disabling a threat and nor should he be

 

[Artoo]

hes not going to be disciplined for not cuffing the guy and he isnt going to be disciplined for disabling a threat and nor should he be

Well, that's just fucking ridiculous. Disabling a threat? He would've been disabled if he'd been cuffed as soon as they impounded him.

At the very least it's a case of gross negligence on the part of the cops.
I really don't see why you think they should not be disciplined for that, at the very least.

 

[punkrockergirl]

Well, that's just fucking ridiculous. Disabling a threat? He would've been disabled if he'd been cuffed as soon as they impounded him.

At the very least it's a case of gross negligence on the part of the cops.

thats what he did... and it was neglegant to not cuff them but he was doing his job when he fired

 

[CrystalLight]

and he made sure he wasnt going to be capable of anything

By fatally wounding him? Is that what they teach you?

 

[Artoo]

thats what he did... and it was neglegant to not cuff them but he was doing his job when he fired

No, he would have been doing his job if the suspect had been cuffed initially. This is the point I have major complaints with - they didn't do their job properly, and as a result, someone has lost a life. This point needs to be addressed.

 

[punkrockergirl]

By fatally wounding him? Is that what they teach you?

yes

No, he would have been doing his job if the suspect had been cuffed initially. This is the point I have major complaints with - they didn't do their job properly, and as a result, someone has lost a life. This point needs to be addressed.

no he was doing his job by disabling the threat and no one says he shot to kill just stopping the threat ..

 

[Artoo]

no he was doing his job by disabling the threat and no one says he shot to kill just stopping the threat ..

As far as this argument goes, the shooting of the man would've been unnecessary (and that's stretching it a bit), if the police had been doing their jobs and cuffed the man first and foremost. It's this point that I have most contention with. Why are you not getting this?

 

[CrystalLight]

yes

What's the name of the Academy you train at?

 

[punkrockergirl]

As far as this argument goes, the shooting of the man would've been unnecessary (and that's stretching it a bit), if the police had been doing their jobs and cuffed the man first and foremost. It's this point that I have most contention with. Why are you not getting this?

i get that but regardless he did the right thing in shooting him i dont get what your not getting .. yes i agree it should have been avoided but it wasnt

What's the name of the Academy you train at?

been out of the academy quite awhile now

 

[kis123]

i agree it the cops being sloppy that they werent cuffed and taken care of but i dont fault him for shooting.. the guy was a threat plain and simple.. a free perp is a threat especially after being told dont move and they move you have no idea what they are capable of and he made sure he wasnt going to be capable of anything

If he had followed proper procedure and cuffed him first, this thread wouldn't exist and a four year old would not be without a father. It is the officer's job to obtain and maintain control; this incident clearly shows the cop did not have control of the situation.

Deadly force is supposed to be the LAST resort, not because the suspect isn't doing what he was told. The officer had more options than the suspect but didn't follow procedure; if he did that guy would still be here. This was senseless and did not have to be. At the least, he should be fired.

All I see are a myriad of bad decisions:

-fighting on the train in the first place
-cops not getting things under control
-frightened suspect not following police orders
-shooting a man on the ground instead of using pepper spray or taser to control him.

Just a big ol' hot mess to me and unfortunately the city is going to pay big time on this. There's no way that cop will be completely cleared, not if they don't want the city burning again

 

[CrystalLight]

been out of the academy quite awhile now

Ok, then what is it exactly that you are doing?

That is not proper protocol and if a cop did that on a daily basis, their badge would be pulled. I really, really hope you were just kidding when you said that's what you were trained to do.

 

[Artoo]

If he had followed proper procedure and cuffed him first, this thread wouldn't exist and a four year old would not be without a father. It is the officer's job to obtain and maintain control; this incident clearly shows the cop did not have control of the situation.

Deadly force is supposed to be the LAST resort, not because the suspect isn't doing what he was told. The officer had more options than the suspect but didn't follow procedure; if he did that guy would still be here. This was senseless and did not have to be. At the least, he should be fired.

All I see are a myriad of bad decisions:

-fighting on the train in the first place
-cops not getting things under control
-frightened suspect not following police orders
-shooting a man on the ground instead of using pepper spray or taser to control him.

Just a big ol' hot mess to me and unfortunately the city is going to pay big time on this. There's no way that cop will be completely cleared, not if they don't want the city burning again

Thanks for putting it a little more concisely than I could manage. 😉

 

[punkrockergirl]

Ok, then what is it exactly that you are doing?

That is not proper protocol and if a cop did that on a daily basis, their badge would be pulled. I really, really hope you were just kidding when you said that's what you were trained to do.

im a csi for the nypd and to an extent that is what they teach you to do .. if your threatened shoot, if your threatened enough shoot to kill... and i trained at the chicago police academy just to answer your last question...

 

[CrystalLight]

if your threatened shoot, if your threatened enough shoot to kill...

And he was threatened enough to shoot?

 

[punkrockergirl]

And he was threatened enough to shoot?

guess so he did and im sure the cop wouldnt just shoot when he wasnt threatened knowing that it would risk his job and jail time.. so he must have saw it as enough of a threat to pull the trigger

 

[Artoo]

guess so he did and im sure the cop wouldnt just shoot when he wasnt threatened knowing that it would risk his job and jail time.. so he must have saw it as enough of a threat to pull the trigger

You're sure he wouldn't? Maybe he panicked. Who knows?
You're putting a lot of faith in this one policeman, it seems.

 

[punkrockergirl]

You're sure he wouldn't? Maybe he panicked. Who knows?
You're putting a lot of faith in this one policeman, it seems.[/QU

yes im sure if he panicked he wouldnt have been able to pull and shoot on target he would have froze if he panicked he knew what he was doing .. and yes im putting faith in him because i know how much hard work it takes to do this job and i trust the people that put in the time to do it

 

[Artoo]

yes im sure if he panicked he wouldnt have been able to pull and shoot on target he would have froze if he panicked he knew what he was doing .. and yes im putting faith in him because i know how much hard work it takes to do this job and i trust the people that put in the time to do it

Indeed, they do a tough and demanding job, no one is saying otherwise. But it doesn't mean that mistakes are never made.
Also, panicking doesn't necessarily mean you freeze; you can also act irrationally, as this guy seems to have done.