Question about studio “TICKLE innocent ticklish gf” on C4S

[ISUmark]

Coming back to this thread because I did a search on the forum after discovering the site. After buying a clip and testing the waters I've spent about 75 bucks on videos. Its obvious the whole thing is a gimmick which is absolutely fine with me. Ive purchased clips of Marta and Fernanda, and I can honestly say the 2nd series with Marta might be the best tickling media I've ever seen. Maybe its just personal preference but it just hits all the buttons on things I enjoy in a video. The reactions when the guy uses his beard stubble to tickle feet/ears/neck is amazing.

 

[FeetDepartment]

Any studio that blurs the face of the tickler is dirty to me. You'll put the models reputation on the line but not your own? And I don't care if non-con is just a gimmick. It sets a bad trend for producers who may want to imitate it. (Look at all the content inspired by Tracy the "reflexology student" from back40foot.)

 

[Phineas]

Any studio that blurs the face of the tickler is dirty to me. You'll put the models reputation on the line but not your own?

It's not about reputation. It's because members of this community scream bloody murder at any male who dares let the camera catch him above the wrist.

That said, it doesn't exactly help this studio not look sketch, I'll agree.

It sets a bad trend for producers who may want to imitate it.

I also agree with this. Tickle fetishists often aren't the sharpest tools in the drawer. A lot of them don't seem to be able to tell a scripted video from the real thing and then they go out and harass people because "Tracy did it so it must be OK". Never mind that Tracy basically gets banned from every establishment he goes anywhere near and has had the police called on him a few times.

 

[yeknohc]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone emailed them and heard back? I saw a recent video description where they offered to share a story about how they were able to successfully able to recruit one of the women to be in the video, and I think they've been making other similar offers by email, but they strike me as people who wouldn't actually respond if reached out to.

 

[morriso]

I've bought several clips of that studio. Here's the information I've gathered so far:

- Yes, it seems that those girls don't know what they've signed up for. I'm not confirming that, it's just my opinion.

- Because of my work, I've traveled around the world and I've lived from time to time in third world countries, especially in south america. Most of the girls are from Ecuador, but I've also seen a girl from Colombia and one from Venezuela in other videos. I'm sure not only because I recognize the way they talk, but also because in some videos you can see bottles of water from an ecuadorian brand.

- No, it seems that there isn't a safeword.

- Yes, they seem to sell their footage of the most ticklish girls (they say thay they don't sell the videos unless the girl is genuinely ticklish). From all the videos I've seen, they seem to be really ticklish. It's just an opinion though.

- Here's a tricky one: last year casually I went to Ecuador, I tried to buy one of their clips but I couldn't. Their website, gone. C4s wouldn't show a thing. After that I used a vpn and I could access, so my guess is that they block the content in the countries were the girls are from.

- Yes, I've contacted them. After I bought my first video, if I remember correctly, at the final part it shows a message saying either they're going to give you a discount on the next purchase, or give you a free clip. That part I don't remember, but I wrote them and they gave me whatever they were offering. They also said that if I wanted to be one of their ticklers, I should let them know. Of course I told them I was interested but they never answered back.

That's when I started looking closer and freaked out I guess. In my opinion, it's real stuff uploaded through a legal glitch, so I got rid of those vids. Maybe I'm overreacting, I mean if it's just a show to make you think is real, they made hell of a good work. The guys run ads on this forum too, so it might be fake, it might be just another trick. Or maybe there is an underground community that know it's real, buy their clips and shut the hell up, and that's thy the studio is like top 10.

- throwaway for obvious reasons, you never know

 

[kingmaker]

Here's a tricky one: last year casually I went to Ecuador, I tried to buy one of their clips but I couldn't. Their website, gone. C4s wouldn't show a thing. After that I used a vpn and I could access, so my guess is that they block the content in the countries were the girls are from.

geo blocking of clips is common and often asked by the models so that their family and friends don't recognize them

 

[Oddjob0226]

If you have consensually agreed to a contract allowing yourself to be tied up, then the simple fact that you are tied up in and of itself would most likely not constitute duress under the legal definitions in most states. Now, I think most attorneys would advise that you should not try to negotiate against negotiating a contract like this because it does open you to claims of duress.

I have no idea about “most states” but in TX there have been cases where women, who were tied up and then hurt, have been able to go to court & put someone away. My high school had what they called “the pickle case.” The senior government classes one year went to county court to watch an actual case being tried. Unfortunately, the chaperones didn’t realize that it was a sexual assault case where a prostitute agreed to be tied up but she was then beaten, burned with cigarettes and violated with a pickle. It couldn’t be removed until she went to an emergency room. That’s when the case got rolling.

Meanwhile, if you are doing some BDSM play in your own home & police show up, if they want to be jerks for wasting their time, they can take you to jail for unlawful imprisonment. Even when both adults consented to the play. It was Texas, after all, that arrested two men for sodomy, the case went to the Supreme Court, & SCOTUS ruled on the side of the men that their rights to privacy was violated, so TX struck down the sodomy laws.

If arrested for unlawful imprisonment the charges would eventually be dropped; it would simply be a form of official repression barely on the right side of the law. Few people would fight back legally because of the possible embarrassment of going to court over their bedroom kinks.

 

[ChicagoDavid]

I saw this thread and was about to post, "it's so obviously fake that it's okay, like an ad that says if you buy our cologne beautiful women will immediately undress and climb all over you." I skimmed the posts in this thread, and it seems they could be doing what they say they are doing?!

 

[ChicagoDavid]

JFC. You are out of your fucking mind if you don't think having a woman tied up is not an implied threat when it comes time to "re-negotiate" her boundaries with regards to what you're allowed to do to her.

This is why models bring escorts to shoots. Because some of you are fucked in the head.

Golden Rule me, I don't fucking care at this point. This community has no one to blame but themselves for why we're all considered to be predators.

Hey Phineas, Iggy pop is not "out of his fucking mind," in his substantive comment on what is/isn't "duress," but more importantly, you should see if you can draft a civil post.

 

[pacattack]

Producer/model here who knows how the process of uploading clips on clips4sale works. After the great Pornhub purge and the new Mastercard regulations every clip you upload has to have a compliance profile for each model. The compliance profile must have their stage name, date of birth, pic of ID, and a scanned signed model release. You cannot upload any clips of any model without a compliance profile. I inserted a pic highlighting what you have to do now when uploading a clip. Long story short all models starring in clips on clips4sale with in this year had to have known what was happening.

View attachment 703237

Damn. Which would imply that prior to this there were models who had no idea what was about to happen.

 

[Phineas]

Hey Phineas, Iggy pop is not "out of his fucking mind," in his substantive comment on what is/isn't "duress," but more importantly, you should see if you can draft a civil post.

Nah dawg, I'm good. I'm quite ok with stating that someone who ties someone up and then decides "now's a good time to re-negotiate our boundaries and I'm totally not relying on the implied threat as leverage" is a predator. GTFOH.

Blows my mind that you people would even consider it, let alone argue that it is totes fine.

This place. I swear.

 

[kingmaker]

Damn. Which would imply that prior to this there were models who had no idea what was about to happen.

It's still possible, the contracts are not standardised and c4s don't read them (they are written in every langage, I doubt they are reading the indians one, chinese ones etc ...)

Models often come with someone and take precautions now-a-days, there is a whole procedure that they follow before shooting (background checks etc)

The only thing that this uploading of form and ID is effective at is making it impossible to upload candid or underage video.

But if the producer is borderline with his ethics, there is no online or paper form that can help with that.

One of the way to have an idea if the producer has a good vide is to see if they have recurring models, but ultimately it will never tell you if he got handsy once or twice

 

[ChicagoDavid]

Nah dawg, I'm good. I'm quite ok with stating that someone who ties someone up and then decides "now's a good time to re-negotiate our boundaries and I'm totally not relying on the implied threat as leverage" is a predator. GTFOH.

Blows my mind that you people would even consider it, let alone argue that it is totes fine.

This place. I swear.

Nice try. Well, not really. Iggy pop did not state any of the things you say he states. In fact, he literally says the opposite, and says that when the model is tied up is NOT the right time to renegotiate. So, if you are going to personally attack someone based on their post, you should actually read the post and make sure you aren't being, well, plainly wrong.

 

[biddlybong]

...

 

[SoleMates]

Nice try. Well, not really. Iggy pop did not state any of the things you say he states.

Really? I may just be a simple space chicken from Alpha Centauri, but;

Congratulations! You now have a contract signed under duress.

This isn't duress.

That sure sounds to me like Iggy is saying what Phineas thinks he's saying.

"This" - meaning, "Renegotiating a contract while one party is tied up is considered a threat".

I got curious, so I hit the Google. Under California law, we have the following that I found on a law firm's website;

To claim the defense of signing under duress, a party must show that assent or agreement to the contract was induced by a serious threat of unlawful or wrongful action. He or she must also show that they had no reasonable alternative but to agree to the contract. Blackmail is an example of duress.

Here in California we also have the "reasonable person" thingy where laws are defined by what a "reasonable person" would assume. And, well, I imagine that it wouldn't be that hard to argue that your average woman would consider being tied up by someone who was then flipping the script a threat, and at the very least they have no reasonable alternative if they have to rely on the other party to, y'know, at the very least untie them.

And furthermore, back when this post was a thing, I did an impromptu poll on my Instagram. I said to my audience of roughly two thousand followers, "You go to a shoot. The producer decides to renegotiate your contract while you're tied up. Is this a threat?"

I don't remember the exact numbers (somewhere in the double digits), but with the exception of two dudes who were neither photographers/producers nor models, everybody
(including a handful of models) responded that yes, it was a threat, which sounds to me like a "reasonable person" would come to the same conclusion. At the very least, if this case went to trial, all it would take is one woman on the jury and there's no way this dude is getting found not guilty.

So yeah, under California law I'm pretty confident in stating this would be considered duress, and that I'd be giving a serious side-eye to anyone who tried to argue that it wasn't. All the victim has to do is reasonably (there's that word again) believe they're in danger, and, barring the producer pulling a knife on her, this is as close as it gets in a situation like this.

Yes, he goes on to say "it's probably not a good idea regardless", but IMHO that doesn't negate the first half of the comment. And speaking personally, I can't imagine seriously taking the "it's legal, so it's ok" stance on something like this, especially not if you want to keep a steady supply of models coming in. You scare one enough, legally justified or not, and your ass is getting called out on Twixxer or whatever the hell it's called now and your business is done.

That said, the store's gone, so good riddance I guess?

Edit: As an aside... I know at least one model whose security escort(s) consist of some actually dangerous people. Like, convicted felons. She feels safe enough with me that she'll shoot at my place without bringing security at this point, but I can guarantee you that if I took that as a sign that it was ok to cross her, I'd be waking up in the trunk of a car, Pulp Fiction-style. Do NOT fuck with these girls. You may get away with it in the moment, but if you screw with the wrong one you're going to wish it was just the legal system you were dealing with and they're not going to care if a court wouldn't consider it duress or not.

 

[kingmaker]

It's funny that you guys were speculating about this predator and now almost a year later C4S have shut down his store and ***************** has closed the TickleDr store for "maintenance". Maybe the girls are aware it's a fetish video... it still doesn't justify lying to gain their consent.



https://docdro.id/gwkhI8l

He still has ads running on the TMF ..

What would be best is to know from the models if this whole "No fetish" thing was really what the model agreed on or if there was a talk about it between the recruitment and the session

And C4S, with their whole verification system ... they really dropped the ball on this one, it was not hard to check their website.

It's easy for them to ban a video because they see a cat in the background but they can't make basic verification about a guy that is litterally saying he does something dodgy everywhere ...

 

[biddlybong]

...

 

[Oddjob0226]

Damn. Which would imply that prior to this there were models who had no idea what was about to happen.

In the good old college days of the 1980s & VHS, I definitely saw previews (and lots of mailed brochures) that depicted some very intense stuff. I mean, some of the mailers could have been set-ups by the USPS (one in particular contained only descriptions, and two different videos included sex with a pregnant woman who then gives live birth. It was like playing that game "Third World Or Entrapment?")

But some of the videos from rinky-dink indie producers that weren't even Tao, let alone Cal-Star or Harmony, were almost certainly hookers who were paid (bribed) or tricked to be **intensely** bound, gagged & blindfolded in a cheap motel to be beaten viciously. There was a couple in Las Vegas who did some of these.

Thanks to the Meese Commission on Pornography, even the legitimate Harmony had to "bury" some of the early videos for 25 years or so since they didn't have the new, federally required model info on file, so I really doubt this man & woman, and others like them, had any contracts of information collection of legal standing.

 

[Oddjob0226]

It's funny that you guys were speculating about this predator and now almost a year later C4S have shut down his store and ********** has closed the TickleDr store for "maintenance". Maybe the girls are aware it's a fetish video... it still doesn't justify lying to gain their consent.

https://docdro.id/gwkhI8l

It looks it's no longer down but has instead been taken over. There are 16 pages of photos & text exposing them both:


"TickleDr.com is based in Quito, Ecuador. It is run by ********** and his accomplice
************ who trick and manipulate girls into appearing in tickle torture fetish videos for
the online market. They are systematically abusing young women, torturing them for sexual
gratification by lying to them about their intentions and creating fabricated scenarios and
personas to gain their victims' trust. They pretend to be researchers conducting a legitimate
scientific study when in fact Stefano has a fetish for extremely brutal tickling with the intention of
causing as much suffering as possible in his unaware victims.

One of the ways they do this is by posting adverts on facebook and instagram inviting people to
participate in a paid clinical trial. They explain that they would like to study the participants'
nervous reactions to techniques that can cause desperation, panic and even pain. They pose as
scientific researchers in order to take advantage of the victims' trust - the trust that medical
professionals would not behave in an inhumane or cruel way."

 

[Comfort Eagle]

Well fuck me, I was wrong. I guess in hindsight it relied heavily on the girls themselves not being familiar enough with English to understand how fucking strange those "promo videos" were and how awkwardly worded that entire website is.

Yeah, sick fuck. Purge his bullshit off the site and post the pdf everywhere.

 

[Oddjob0226]

I guess one of the mods reconsidered & found something to look at. That's good, considering that harassment just in the TMF chat room has driven changes to its functioning over the years to reduce such activity directed at female chat users (#believewomen #Tickled):

https://www.ticklingforum.com/showt...A-quot-tickle-innocent-ticklish-gf-quot/page3

**"I'm closing this thread because the accusations sound like complete nonsense to me. If the OP (who joined the forum apparently just to make these wild accusations) has ANY evidence, they can contact me directly with it.

But so far all we're hearing are descriptions of things they've allegedly seen, which to me sound less like reality and more like an episode of Law and Order to be completely frank. I suspect someone saw the fetish site about science, became confused and alarmed, and started making up new elements to convince other people to believe the scenario that they think they've figured out.

I don't believe there are any documents or witnesses as alleged, but if there's anything to look at I'll be happy to reconsider."**

That "science" website/producer -which is still up- is bizarrely vague & unprofessional. I worked in video production for 10 years, and news production ever since. "We want to see women angrily arguing, or laughing uncontrollably, or even crying;" "We helped 100 clients last year!" Why are y'all so shady while also celebrating ineptitude?

You'd think that after Dave D'Amato and the Tickled documentary that folks would be more interested, not less interested, in finding out if there is fire occurring along with the smoke.

 

[Oddjob0226]

It's apparently quite a to-do in Ecuador. The guy works for the Italian Embassy & has a 😉casting company:


https://www.reddit.com/r/ecuador/comments/141m4cm/quito_beware_of_this_dangerous_person/

The women don't know the true fetish extent since, according to the reddit thread, the fetish site is blocked in Ecuador. It's not a thing they could find even if they had suspicions.

A similar thing happened in Argentia, with U.S. citizens getting arrested:

https://baexpats.org/threads/u-s-citizen-apprehended-for-crimes-committed-in-ba.35622/page-4



The questionnaire on the casting siteis telling:

Concorsi per aspiranti attrici, modelle per sfilate o smalto, video commerciali, candid camera, eventi


Contests to be an actress, clothing or enamel model, commercial videos, candid camera clips, events


Fill out the form:

Name

Exact name of your Facebook profile

Retype your Facebook name

Age

Email address

Enter your email again

Your WhatsApp number

Type your WhatsApp again

Your Country

Your city

Would you like to participate in a video:

_Tickling
_Of hidden cameras
_Bungee jumping
_Any video
_Clothing model only
_Animal Defending testimonial only

Message -

 

[biddlybong]

...

 

[kingmaker]

There are a lot of effort to counter these claims on their website, but no one is talking about it

 

[Comfort Eagle]

There are a lot of effort to counter these claims on their website, but no one is talking about it

For starters it's because he says "What it's not even porn idk what everyone is talking about, anyone can jerk off to anything..." Which is the exact same shti David D'mato said for years.

The man has a banner ad on TicklingMediaForum dot come. A website where people post, sell, and talk about sexualized tickling. How did that end up on there if "I didn't even know people beat off to this I just wanted to make horror films..."?