Religion

[Bushido1]

Hello all, i was sitting here just thinking and all, and i thought of something to ask the community something. Now i'm a firm belive of america's freedom of religion, and i'm proud to call myself an american. I myself am a buddist, and i'm proud to be one, if anyone here know jerry fallwell in central VA some of you might know that he can be a very fanatical babtist, now i'm not putting down all babtist, thats not in my char. but fallwell is the kind of guy that dose not like people who are not christians. I have plenty of christian friends so i'm not putting them down. but i was wondering on other peoples veiw of their religion and other people's beliefs. but let us keep it nice and respectful for other people's beliefs. thanks for the feedback

-Bushido

 

[morgandee]

uh there must be something going on to have inspired you to write this

i will quote some nazi guy from irc just because it was really funny in an offensive way

"Although i hate nazi's and their kin, I agree with burning down churchs. God damn christians" --sephiroth___1

 

[Goodieluver]

I am a roman catholic, there are fanatics for every religion, everyone feels the religion they follow is the 1 true faith.

I dunno what the hell burning churches down and Nazi's have in common, National socialism's religion was roman catholic.

I like the quote from simpsons when bart became a roman catholic and the simpsons being protestant had a shit fit over it, bart said "You know what, it doesnt matter, its all christianity!" and they all shook hands and such

 

[Yet_One_More_Idiot]

I believe that everyone has the right to their own choice of religious beliefs, as long as they don't try to force said beliefs on others - case in point, people standing on street corners (or 'round London, in the Underground stations) preaching from the Bible or some other holy text. Very few people rushing around on their daily business are gonna care, so why bother trying to ram it down their throats?

My own religion is atheism; I firmly believe that there is no god.

 

[Dude'sonfire]

You can tell that this is gonna be one of those threads that goes on and on and on and.... lol 😛

 

[Melissa666]

Okay let me chime in here for a sec. If I see some guy walk on water, change water into wine and rise from the dead ill believe most likely that hes something special and possibly lord of the universe. If I read about him in some book called the bible and see nothing at all for thousands of years and realize that God is about as provable as Santa Claus I will not believe. Its really that simple. If theres God, let me see.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

We've had threads like this before. Its never worth the time. All it does is make people ancy and either way it fosters an exclusive and bias environment where people get defensive, make excuses, and it turns into a history lesson or battle of zealotry. People gloat about their religion/faith or intentional lack of one, etc. All it ever does is create further intolerance and friction. It creates a niche, a perch, from which people can attack, defend and counter. But its always oh so subtle isn't it? Like that makes it ok.

You're better off just talking to people you know can handle it in private. You can never trust everyone to be as mature as you are. Someone will always ruin it. These threads are nice, but not practical. They're better suited as personal conversations than public ones or as conversations with spiritual people. They're more likely to get along and agree on things then any random person who may not have an opinion on anything or have anything positive to add.

This thread is just as much grounds for preaching than actual quotation of scripture, dogma, or meditative reflections are. This thread is hypocritical by it's very nature, not it's creation. While I'm sure it was intended to be a discussion, we know it won't be. People are too different to be on the same page.

If you want to know about religion and have religious discussions, go to church. And if you want to learn about someone else's religion, go to their temple/place of worship and sit in on a service and ask questions afterwards.

You'll gain more that way in abundance without the fuss, conjecture or heresay the anonimity of a website (and a fetish one at that) can offer you.

Go to the source, and you will find answers to your questions. See these practices in action, don't read it out of a book or hear it from someone else's lips. So many misconceptions arize because its the internet. Don't seek answers from afar, go out and find them. Then, especially then, you will recieve the truth and facts of the matter, not what other people are telling you.

You will have learned a valuable lesson. You will have witnessed it for yourself. The faith the people there have and the energy they generate and how that is a testament from a higher calling. There is no true religion, only true faith. You either are the type to have it or not. Its as simple as that.

 

[Goodieluver]

melissa, have you ever seen a dinosaur or a DoDo bird? These are creatures that are said to have existed but majority of people have never seen. That is the basis of religion, faith

 

[Yet_One_More_Idiot]

Not quite an accurate analogy, GoodieLuver - while the dinosaurs and the dodo are long since extinct, we can still see their carcasses or, in the case of dinosaurs, their fossilised bones, as evidence that they DID exist. There is no faith involved in that.
We cannot, however, see the fossils of any deities anywhere around. 🙂

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Scientists believe they have found DNA that belongs to Christ and have discovered his bloodline. But that would never be enough for an athiest. He'd have to be proven to be God incarnate and thats just not going to happen, not by a human's hand. Its no more possible than explaining the universe from a scientific perspective. We have theories but thats exactly like faith, its faith in mathmatical substitutions for things that cannot be explained. Scientists have faith in things they created because they have no foreknowledge of anything. So they make mathmatical principles up for things they'll never personally experience or contrive or be able to explain. They try to fit everything there is and ever will be into a jar of explaination when they can't even fill a thimble.

Society teaches us science. Our hearts teach us faith.

 

[morgandee]

i thought religion was based on a belief system, not particularly faith, but faith becomes an implicit part of religion when your belief persists especially throughout odds and acknowledged doubt upon evaluation of the situation; however it is not necessarily an intrinsic quality of religion

however the quote i brought up was just a weird chat quote i witnessed that was really hilarious and has no political or preaching bearing on what i believe because i don't really care to discuss my personal beliefs with anybody unless they want to be my clone ! then i will take you through my personal "basic training" session D: pushups, go

have a good day sir

 

[tidoman61]

well i am 100% irish, there fore i am roman cathlic

 

[Melissa666]

V. Dracula is 100% right. His post is a work of genius if I do say so myself. Im not going to participate in this discussion because its gonna lead into a TMFlike thread fight. I am withdrawing from this discussion and continuing my search to see Julie Morans feet tickled! 😎

 

[Cbarton]

Okay let me chime in here for a sec. If I see some guy walk on water, change water into wine and rise from the dead ill believe most likely that hes something special and possibly lord of the universe. If I read about him in some book called the bible and see nothing at all for thousands of years and realize that God is about as provable as Santa Claus I will not believe. Its really that simple. If theres God, let me see.

Well, for one, I've seen people healed, demons cast out (I was one of the people casting it out), and such. Happen often? maybe not here in the US. However, I have heard many first-person accounts from missionaries overseas. By faith, I know the Lord can heal a cold as easy as can heal cancer. Does he always? No. Sometimes, as the Michael Card song says, the joy is in the jouney. Prove His existence? All I can do is prove it through His works and His leading fo my life.

Faith is the assurace of things not seen (Heb 11:1). If you require proof, you become euqal to the Pharisees and other leaders of the Jews in Christ's time. Even then, they tried to write Him off, saying he was possessed or the devil himself. Faith is like a muscle, if you don't use it, it withers like a tomato in a drought.

Besides, Christianity in it's purest form isn't really a religion. A religion tries to pull one closer to God ( or gods) or become a 'god.' Christianity is God reaching down to man by sending His Son to redeem us. Two totally different concepts.

Not a sermon, just my $0.03

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Faith explains what science and religion cannot yet it itself is not an explaination and does not need one. Religion uses history and events to validate itself and science uses it's theories for the same purpose. Both are a path to explain what is but neither does in any entirety.

Faith is not just the acknowledgement of something more, it is the existance itself, the state of being and understanding, the final result of an exhausted search or just the beginning of one. Its about not needing an explaination anymore because you're already there, living that life that cannot be explained by science and you are reaching for that goal that religion cannot put into words. Faith continues where religion and science end.

This is why miracles are not explainable.

Faith is neither here nor there, its everywhere in everything. Yet so many live out of this loop and are seeking answers they already have.

When you use science to learn something, you learn something new about the world.

When you pray or meditate, you learn something new about yourself.

Both are paths to discovery, but only one ends in self-development, self-awareness and self-betterment. Faith and religion do what science cannot. It satisfies people. It gives them an answer. If faith was not evident in religion, religion would be pointless because then it would be just like science, an explaination of something that cannot be seen or felt.

What does science believe in? It doesn't believe in anything because it cannot explain itself, the result of a spite of not wanting to believe theres more to it than whats explainable to the human limitations. Religion and faith however is introspective and revealing. You continue to unlock a part of your potential as an individual with faith, prayer and following due course, following nature, and nature's cosmic law, fate, and destiny for you, not sciences'.

Science is non-conclusive. It necessitates more, and faith is the only thing that can complete the puzzle as we understand it. Religion is the gateway to faith.

Man's desire to know everything has made science the equal of faith, in spite. It wasn't always that way. Are we therefore so fickle and capracious that we cannot believe in anything indefinitely?

Is not our human understanding limited by our science?

What does faith limit? It limits nothing. It seeks to neither prove or disprove anything. It is the living out of what you believe and that is the ultimate revelation. The journey is both over and just beginning at the same time. You have your explaination with faith, your purpose and your intent, your validation and your peace.

This is why so many religious spiritual people (of all the world's religions) seem happy, content, and not affected by the world around them, though they live in it, not because they have lulled themselves into a false sense of security. They are at the apex and zenith of human existance. And while it seems foolish to the scientific as it doens't change the physical, its not trickery or guile that enevitably leads to faith. Its a trust in what you cannot control. Its surrendering your destiny to your heart where the answers lie.

Its letting life and kindness be your master, not scientific verbatim.

Faith is letting go and letting this physical existance do what it will fully believing it is the will of a greater force and not self-serving science. It only seems so foolish because its perfect from all points of view. It cannot be discredited because it is not tangible. Science is a credit and testament to human evolution, but it is not the answer to anything. It only defines material matter.

The heart and soul is vast, incalculable and born of a different matter. It exists in the human entity for self-realization. And once you get to realizing the journey begins. Its up to you however to use this time wisely, as there is one thing religion and science agree on- this life doesn't last forever.

 

[Melissa666]

I think Gilbert Gottfrieds performance in Problem Child 2 is as close to God as ive ever gotten. :amazed:

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Well, for one, I've seen people healed, demons cast out (I was one of the people casting it out), and such. Happen often? maybe not here in the US. However, I have heard many first-person accounts from missionaries overseas. By faith, I know the Lord can heal a cold as easy as can heal cancer. Does he always? No. Sometimes, as the Michael Card song says, the joy is in the jouney. Prove His existence? All I can do is prove it through His works and His leading fo my life.

Faith is the assurace of things not seen (Heb 11:1). If you require proof, you become euqal to the Pharisees and other leaders of the Jews in Christ's time. Even then, they tried to write Him off, saying he was possessed or the devil himself. Faith is like a muscle, if you don't use it, it withers like a tomato in a drought.

Besides, Christianity in it's purest form isn't really a religion. A religion tries to pull one closer to God ( or gods) or become a 'god.' Christianity is God reaching down to man by sending His Son to redeem us. Two totally different concepts.

Not a sermon, just my $0.03

Amen to that, brother.

I can personally attest to many different physical phenominon that could not be explained, and it doesn't have to be. Its there, it happened, and it was good. This is faith and a result of it.

I've seen and heard people speak in tongues (and I almost did once myself, but I was stubborn and didn't let the Spirit use me I wish now I would have), you should have heard it...it was so beautiful, it was like a choir of angels singing and these are just human beings, they were in and out of sync everyone speaking a different language that is not of this earth and it was really something to bear witness to and its like everyone knew instantly when to stop because everyone stopped at the same time, not a second sooner or later. I've seen people go up to alter area and give a personal account of what they just experienced, and I believe them because I felt it too. We were ALL connected at the same time like one soul. This is a power from ABOVE. This is TRUE TOGETHERNESS and its available to anyone of any religion or even people who do not have one.

"Where two or more are gathered in my name, there shall I be."

This is just a sample of what true FAITH and utter surrenderence to Will of the Creator can achieve for humankind, especially on an individual basis. It would do much more for humankind if we would just allow it to.

I am a LIVING testament to the graces of God as are countless others, apparently yourself included. And religion didn't have a thing to do with it other than to share this faith with others.

Whether I was healing or was healed, its all part of the miracle of faith. No damn science can tinker with that. EVER.

 

[alchemy1]

You know...I used to believe. When I was a kid, there was a God...there was also a Santa Claus, a tooth fairy, and an Easter Bunny (well, maybe not that one). Then as I started to mature into the cynical, doom-laden person you see before you, I started asking questions. I still believed mind you, but just to believe in God because the bible tells me so was not enough anymore, I wanted to know the why of things. You see, things such as God creating a pillar of flame to allow the Hebrews to escape from the Egyptions didn't sit well with me, if God is all powerful, couldn't he do something better than that...like, oh I don't know, ANYTHING. You want another example, somewhere in the old testiment it says that shrimp are an abomination...SHRIMP! (I assure you, it's there) It was stuff like that...LOTS of stuff like that which gave me pause and caused me to reflect and reconsider my faith. I am not the type of person to follow blindly or take anything at face value, I am a questioner...a doubter...I NEED to know the why of things. So I started asking questions...and started getting LOTS and LOTS of "the lord works in mysterious ways" types of answers....that doesn't fly with me. Finally, while I don't claim to have had a hard life, I have had to deal with my share of sh*t from time to time. During these times, I have tried to turn to my faith or the bible for solace. Time after time, however, I found no solace or comfort in either. You know what I did find comfort in though? "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do" by Bruce Lee. I read this book and IMEDIATELY felt better. Bruce was not a religious man, but he did believe in the power of the human being and especially the individual. I offer you a quote:

"The function and duty of a human being, a "quality" human being, that is, is the sincere and honest development of potential and self-actualization. One additional comment: the energy from within and the physical strength from your body can guide you toward accomplishing your purpose in life - and to actually act on actualizing your duty to yourself." - Bruce Lee

Truthfully, I have no problem with the basic message of Christianity. I do believe that it is a good and necessary one...which is why it has hung around for 1000's of years. The only problem with that is that some people focus more on the person than the message. As Bruce says: "It is like a finger pointing to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

Besides Bruce's teachings, my religion consists of this: Heaven and Hell is right here. This is Heaven, and this is Hell and God and the devil reside inside all of us. It's the choices that we make in our lives make it either one or the other. In essence, we create our own fate. You know, I don't need to go to a building to pray, I can pray inside of myself if I so desire, to whom ever I want..and get the same results. I don't need to be told I'm going to hell if I don't learn the books of the bible or if I don't believe like you do. I mean, who the hell are you to say that to me?!

In closing, PLEASE DO NOT BE OFFENDED BY ANYTHING I JUST SAID. It is not my intention to offend, anger, insult, or ridicule anyone. This is simply what i believe, nothing more.

 

[Timewarp]

Again with the religion thing. How many threads need to be made on this one subject. If your not sure what to do, take a long look at yourself and make a desicion. Sheesh, this discussion just pops like weeds.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

If it pops like weed, then can you blame anyone? 😛

 

[morgandee]

weed 😱~~~~~~

 

[alf1]

That's maybe the 10th or so post about religion or close since i'm a member here, so i give up and let you all discuss once again about the same things 🙂.

 

[-Kunoke-]

There's only one thing I have to say. I have a huge problem with most Christians. I can't go ANYWHERE anymore and say "Oh my god!" without a Christian correcting me! I'm sorry, but look, it's YOUR religion, and you have no right at all to tell people what they can and cant say.

Sorry if I brought that off as rude, but it had to be said.

 

[Goodieluver]

Alchemy, about the pillar, we do not know if this was a literal thing or if was percieved as a pillar of flame, we are reading a text thats translated into english from latin from aramaic\hebrew, so words are changed, just like the crossing of the red sea, with new translations, the Jews crossed the "Sea of reeds" which at times is shallow enough to cross.

Also on Jeet kune do, even bruce lee even said that anyone who reads the book should trash and burn it because its not a teaching tool or a blueprint to learn and shouldnt gain anything significant from it, its simply his way of seeing the world and how someone can interpret things, i believe its roughly in the first chapter

 

[alchemy1]

Alchemy, about the pillar, we do not know if this was a literal thing or if was percieved as a pillar of flame, we are reading a text thats translated into english from latin from aramaic\hebrew, so words are changed, just like the crossing of the red sea, with new translations, the Jews crossed the "Sea of reeds" which at times is shallow enough to cross.

Also on Jeet kune do, i bruce lee even said that anyone who reads the book should trash and burn it because its not a teaching tool or a blueprint to learn and shouldnt gain anything significant from it, its simply his way of seeing the world and how someone can interpret things, i believe its roughly in the first chapter

Thanks man, you just made two more points for me. 😀 Yep, the bible has gone through so many incarnations and transaltions and so forth, how can we possibly try and base our life on it. Did you ever play that game called telephone when you were a kid? How often did the message at the end of the line even resemble the original? You see, TO ME, the whole concept is absurd...but once again, that's just me.

Also, very good point about Jeet Kune Do, however, as I said in my last post, "it is like a finger pointing to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

Rock On!