Religion

[Celtic_Emperor]

I'll just say that I don't see how you can see that people today are basing their lives entirely on the Bible. Thats ridiculous. You take an instance in history, a decade even, and say that is what christianity is about. Living according to the Bible as if it was some law of the land. Its not. Its not a book of morals, its a pedigree of inspiration and purpose and gives helpful advice for everyday living. Anyone can make use of that no matter who you are. Any priest will tell you that. Its not their fault if the PEOPLE want to misuse it And people who have used it as a means to disicipline their children, etc, have committed an abuse.

We live in a different age now. Pretending like its still the quaker settler regime and using that as if it were the current example of what christianity or the Bible is about is really petty and a means to drive around the issue without having to confront it.

"Oh those christians, with their telling me I have to go to church, blah blah blah, forcing the bible and religion down my throat blah blah blah!"

Oh come on! How exagerated is that? Christians don't even go door to door. The only place you're going to hear them talk about this is at church or on tv in any ammount of detail. If you're there and you don't like people talking about church while they're at church then something is seriously wrong with you.

Its not like christians are walking around the streets with fliers advertizing christianity like its some fad. They're not forcing anything down your throat. People exagerate this so unfairly just because christianity is an easy target, like we're some street menace you can't escape no matter where you go.

Thats just people bitching and whining because THEY'RE the ones who are intolerant. If you can't trust yourself to be nice in the presense of a well-intentioned christian of any denomination then you shouldn't listen to them at all and just move on.

No one is forcing anyone in this day and age. What the hell is wrong? More people like me need to say something because this false analogy that religion is being forced down our throats is extremely exagerated in most of the western hemisphere.

You have the choice to believe whatever you want, but complaining about something that has been a part of american history for so long isn't going to get you anywhere. We live in an age of freedom of choice. You don't have to be christian if you don't want to be, you can be something else or nothing. You can't undo history and you shouldn't be hung up on it and use it as an excuse to allow yourself to be driven away by the goodness that is there.

Stop whining. Most of the time, its bitching just to bitch for the sake of bitching because theres something to bitch about. LOL 😛 If you hate it so much why the hell are you allowing yourself to be subjected to it? Theres not some curse thats keeping anyone of age from doing or believing what they want. Thats a choice of indifference and laziness if you're allowing it to happen, and you're doing it to yourselves. Your intolerance will always be your own undoing, therefore.

 

[Goodieluver]

Thanks man, you just made two more points for me. 😀 Yep, the bible has gone through so many incarnations and transaltions and so forth, how can we possibly try and base our life on it. Did you ever play that game called telephone when you were a kid? How often did the message at the end of the line even resemble the original? You see, TO ME, the whole concept is absurd...but once again, that's just me.

Also, very good point about Jeet Kune Do, however, as I said in my last post, "it is like a finger pointing to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

Rock On!

Telephone or not, its a rule in 99% of all societies whether u wanna base off the bible or Byzantine law but, thou shalt not kill

 

[alchemy1]

Telephone or not, its a rule in 99% of all societies whether u wanna base off the bible or Byzantine law but, thou shalt not kill

Whoa, what if the original law was thou shalt not dill? That would be pretty freaky...everybody who has eaten dill pickles would be going to hell. 😀

 

[~Samurai~]

Christians don't even go door to door.

Only if you consider Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Baptists to be non-Christians. We finally had to disconnect our doorbell because of their constant harassment. Jehovah's Witnesses are so well-known for their door-to-door evangelism that even late nite comedians joke about it.

No one is forcing anyone in this day and age. What the hell is wrong? More people like me need to say something because this false analogy that religion is being forced down our throats is extremely exagerated in most of the western hemisphere.

Christian organizations that are lobbying to outlaw "sodomy," gay adoption, sexually explicit speech, stem-cell research, abortion, consenting-adult sex outside of marriage, birth control, gay marriage, and the teaching of evolution: Christian Coalition of America legislative goals page, Focus on the Family, and Family Research Council. How can you say that they are not "forcing anyone"?

 

[Ignatz]

There's only one thing I have to say. I have a huge problem with most Christians. I can't go ANYWHERE anymore and say "Oh my god!" without a Christian correcting me! I'm sorry, but look, it's YOUR religion, and you have no right at all to tell people what they can and cant say.

Sorry if I brought that off as rude, but it had to be said.

Kunoke, it's true that many Christians are petty and sanctimonious. For the record, we are under orders from Christ not to behave that way: "Judge not, lest ye be judged" and that whole bit about the mote in your brother's eye and the beam in your own. It's good advice, but devilishly difficult to follow.

I wonder if you haven't indulged yourself in an exaggeration, though. I live in the so-called Bible Belt and have hardly ever had someone correct my language (which can be pretty profane under stress) in the manner you describe. But maybe you do live in a hotbed of pharisees. If so, the points I raise in my first paragraph should serve you well next time you need to silence a loudmouth.

And if you feel beleaguered or outnumbered, think of the 19th Centrury British poet and satirist William S. Gilbert who once stayed at a hotel which was hosting an Anglican Ministerial Conference. Gilbert entered the dining room and found himself surrounded by bishops and vicars. "By Gad," he roared. "I feel like a lion in a den of Daniels!"

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Only if you consider Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Baptists to be non-Christians. We finally had to disconnect our doorbell because of their constant harassment. Jehovah's Witnesses are so well-known for their door-to-door evangelism that even late nite comedians joke about it.

Christian organizations that are lobbying to outlaw "sodomy," gay adoption, sexually explicit speech, stem-cell research, abortion, consenting-adult sex outside of marriage, birth control, gay marriage, and the teaching of evolution: Christian Coalition of America legislative goals page, Focus on the Family, and Family Research Council. How can you say that they are not "forcing anyone"?

You have the power to completely ignore that is what I'm saying. As far as legislation is concerned, no one has the power to force anyone to do anything. At least not yet. So what I'm saying is still true. When it ceases to be then its sad indeed.

I just hope you realize that these views do not represent all christians and alot of these values are extremely conservative to the point of being fanatical.

I share in your anger, but I do not share in your sentiment.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Kunoke, it's true that many Christians are petty and sanctimonious. For the record, we are under orders from Christ not to behave that way: "Judge not, lest ye be judged" and that whole bit about the mote in your brother's eye and the beam in your own. It's good advice, but devilishly difficult to follow.

I wonder if you haven't indulged yourself in an exaggeration, though. I live in the so-called Bible Belt and have hardly ever had someone correct my language (which can be pretty profane under stress) in the manner you describe. But maybe you do live in a hotbed of pharisees. If so, the points I raise in my first paragraph should serve you well next time you need to silence a loudmouth.

And if you feel beleaguered or outnumbered, think of the 19th Centrury British poet and satirist William S. Gilbert who once stayed at a hotel which was hosting an Anglican Ministerial Conference. Gilbert entered the dining room and found himself surrounded by bishops and vicars. "By Gad," he roared. "I feel like a lion in a den of Daniels!"

Thank you for your post.

 

[~Samurai~]

The problem here is that many sexual variants are already illegal due to successful lobbying by extremist activists. The U.S. Attorney General says that he wants to make enforcement of obscenity laws against adult websites like this one a "top priority," with the Christian political action committees cheering him on. In some states, legislators are seriously trying to banish evolution from science curricula or force the teaching of purely religious views in biology classes. Abstinence-only education is already the law of the land in public schools and is even being foisted onto foreign countries through selective foreign-aid programs. Brazil recently turned down a $40 Million grant because the Bush administration made a precondition that Brazil would have to change its sex laws to be more restrictive! Story here.

Summary:

Forca Brazil! Finally, a state willing to call the US what it is – a Christian fundamentalist state which has rejected science and reason in favour of religious dogma. While Brazil has taken real steps in the battle against HIV/AIDS, the US continues to rely on archaic condemnations of sex outside of marriage as a means to prevent the spread of infection. Would it hurt so much for America to behave like an adult for a change?

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

And yet, none of these things have to do with the tenets of the christian faith. Its an abuse of power and position by some, usually politicians and not religious clergy themselves.

These individual sects of churches are just as much a pawn as the people who would otherwise be victims or are.

So we need to revalute our posture, band together, church and victims, and make a decisive stand against these lobbyists and politicians.

None of these things are the christian way, and Jesus would certainly be saddened by all of this. The truths of love and faith are not being presented in any of this and thats also sad.

 

[~Samurai~]

It may be true that passing gobs of laws is unchristian, but try to tell that to the Christian Lobby:

Justice Department task force will try to curb porn

By Robert Marus

ABP Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON (ABP)—Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is pleasing conservative Christian leaders by focusing attention on pornography.

Gonzales’ deputy, Christopher Wray, announced May 5 that the Department of Justice is establishing a special task force that will try to curb the distribution of obscene images. The Obscenity Prosecution Task Force will coordinate efforts across different parts of the vast law-enforcement agency, with emphasis on the “special challenges that obscenity cases pose in the computer age,” according to a statement from Wray.

Conservative religious leaders reacted positively to the news. Tony Perkins, president of the Washington-based Family Research Council, lauded the development in a May 6 statement. “We are thrilled to have some backing in our fight to protect our children,” Perkins said.

However, he also sounded a note of caution regarding Gonzales, who prior to his appointment had been viewed with suspicion by some conservatives as someone with moderate tendencies.

“We will watch closely, though with a growing sense of confidence in our new Attorney General, to see who is appointed to direct the effort,” Perkins said.

The Baptist Standard.

Note that they said that Gonzales "had been viewed with suspicion by some conservatives as someone with moderate tendencies," as if "moderate tendencies" were something bad! 🙁

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

You can keep quoting as many reports and news media as you want. It doesn't change the fact that these have nothing to do with God, faith, or even the religion itself.

Any self-serving lobby is just that, a self-serving lobby. Just because they slap on "christian" to that "lobby" doesn't change a damn thing. Just because they use delicate choice words doesn't make what they're trying to do savory either.

This is all political scheming, and as I said, the churches are being used as leverage. That doesn't reflect badly on christianity, that reflects badly on these factions and lobbys.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

My take on religion is this two-sided. Myself, I don't care enough to bother believing. I am not a devout anti-religious atheist. I couldn't even be called an atheist because I don't not belieive in a god or gods or path to enlightenment or whatever, I simply do not care enough to bother.

WHen it comes to others, I feel that anyone has the right to practice whatever they want (Or not practice at all) so long as they keep it out of my life and the lives of others. Believe whatever and in whomever you please, but don't force it on others. Would you like someone else's religion or religions's principles forced on you? I didn't think so.

 

[morgandee]

satan is my master
he tells me what to do
he buys my metallica records for me
and sometimes i think
satan is my master

 

[Timewarp]

I give up on this species.

 

[Goodieluver]

Only if you consider Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Baptists to be non-Christians. We finally had to disconnect our doorbell because of their constant harassment. Jehovah's Witnesses are so well-known for their door-to-door evangelism that even late nite comedians joke about it.

Christian organizations that are lobbying to outlaw "sodomy," gay adoption, sexually explicit speech, stem-cell research, abortion, consenting-adult sex outside of marriage, birth control, gay marriage, and the teaching of evolution: Christian Coalition of America legislative goals page, Focus on the Family, and Family Research Council. How can you say that they are not "forcing anyone"?

Right back at you, there are groups and legislations that are fighting for gay marriage, abortion, stem cell research\etc, you can call that forcing the govt to their ways

Also look at how atheists cause a shitstorm cuz of the useage of God in everyday life. If they have a problem with the word God, i suggest they give me all their printed and coined money, since God is on their greenbacks

 

[Goodieluver]

satan is my master
he tells me what to do
he buys my metallica records for me
and sometimes i think
satan is my master

If you're gonna joke and link a metal band and satan, i wouldnt choose metallica

Thats like me saying Alister Crowley and Bible in the same sentence and linking them

 

[morgandee]

well, ooookaaaay </eeyore>

let's try this then !!!!!!!!!1111one

satan is my master
he has always been
he buys my jon denver albums for me
and sometimes i think
satan is my master

 

[Goodieluver]

Im simply saying, Metallica is a joke, after the black album it became a joke

 

[-Kunoke-]

Kunoke, it's true that many Christians are petty and sanctimonious. For the record, we are under orders from Christ not to behave that way: "Judge not, lest ye be judged" and that whole bit about the mote in your brother's eye and the beam in your own. It's good advice, but devilishly difficult to follow.

I wonder if you haven't indulged yourself in an exaggeration, though. I live in the so-called Bible Belt and have hardly ever had someone correct my language (which can be pretty profane under stress) in the manner you describe. But maybe you do live in a hotbed of pharisees. If so, the points I raise in my first paragraph should serve you well next time you need to silence a loudmouth.

And if you feel beleaguered or outnumbered, think of the 19th Centrury British poet and satirist William S. Gilbert who once stayed at a hotel which was hosting an Anglican Ministerial Conference. Gilbert entered the dining room and found himself surrounded by bishops and vicars. "By Gad," he roared. "I feel like a lion in a den of Daniels!"

It's possible that I exaggerated a tad, but I know that it happens, and it happens a lot to me. I'd even say almost on a day to day basis.

 

[morgandee]

maybe i'm the one being misunderstood ~

time2gogoth~

 

[Melissa666]

In id say 50 years all religions that involve any sort of Christianity or Judasim will be looked upon as old Greek or Nordic religions involving Zeus and Odin...nothing more than trying to put a face on that which cant be explained. The bible which supposedly is perfect contradicts itself about 40 times. Watch a George Carlin vid, hell tell ya and make sense. Let me prove there is no God right now. If theres a God let him completely erase the TTC right at the moment I finish this sentence. See? Were all still here! Now that ive disproven the God myth is there anything else you guys wanna know? 😀

 

[killedbyanangel]

I suppose the question to ask yourself when entering a conversation such as this is as follows:
Are you here to learn and understand from another's point of view or to simply shoot it down?
We can all argue until we're blue in the face about whether God exists or not; and unless somone has had an experience with said deity we can't change anyone's opinion.
I believe the original topic in mind was to share our beliefs. So if anyone happens to be interested I'm going to share mine:

I'm from a very small sect of christianity called " Christian Universalism". In a nutshell I believe that hell does not exist and that the whole concept is a perversion of the original scripture. If you want more info as to how, PM me and I'll give you a couple of links on the subject. I also draw from some different sources outside of the protestant Bible (For example: "Gospel of Mary Magdalene"). Christian Universalist churches are very difficult to come by so I rarley go to church, and I'm quick to exit if somebody starts discussing fire and brimstone.

What do I believe happens when you die? I believe we all start are journey to the kingdom of God, which involves correction for all of us, NOT punishment. Simply being shown (and coming to terms with) the error of our ways, so we may be as enlightened as he is.Also I accept that this is MY way of viewing God, and that others may see him (or her if you prefer) differently. I also take the Bible in context to the time it was written. Many things that may have applied back then, do not apply today. Some of it happens to be moral tales, while other parts of it I believe to be true. I look at the whole of it as a tool to understanding God. Just like other books may fuel that purpose for someone else ("The Alchemist" is a book that comes to mind).

 

[aaaaaaugh]

Religion: It's what keeps the poor from killing the rich.

 

[Ignatz]

I suppose the question to ask yourself when entering a conversation such as this is as follows:
Are you here to learn and understand from another's point of view or to simply shoot it down?
We can all argue until we're blue in the face about whether God exists or not; and unless somone has had an experience with said deity we can't change anyone's opinion.
I believe the original topic in mind was to share our beliefs. So if anyone happens to be interested I'm going to share mine:

I'm from a very small sect of christianity called " Christian Universalism". In a nutshell I believe that hell does not exist and that the whole concept is a perversion of the original scripture. If you want more info as to how, PM me and I'll give you a couple of links on the subject. I also draw from some different sources outside of the protestant Bible (For example: "Gospel of Mary Magdalene"). Christian Universalist churches are very difficult to come by so I rarley go to church, and I'm quick to exit if somebody starts discussing fire and brimstone.

What do I believe happens when you die? I believe we all start are journey to the kingdom of God, which involves correction for all of us, NOT punishment. Simply being shown (and coming to terms with) the error of our ways, so we may be as enlightened as he is.Also I accept that this is MY way of viewing God, and that others may see him (or her if you prefer) differently. I also take the Bible in context to the time it was written. Many things that may have applied back then, do not apply today. Some of it happens to be moral tales, while other parts of it I believe to be true. I look at the whole of it as a tool to understanding God. Just like other books may fuel that purpose for someone else ("The Alchemist" is a book that comes to mind).

Thanks for steering this thread back on course. This could be a stimulating and civilized discussion if enough of us post in that spirit. I plan to contribute a statement as comprehensive as your own when I get the work week behind me and have time to marshall my thoughts.

 

[Goodieluver]

Religion: It's what keeps the poor from killing the rich.

Where you get this from?