same-sex marriages on going Battle

[Drago691]

i just said that i do not agree with there lifestyle that Gay people are living.

Though, about God, he supposedly made people, and then he made some gay. Ahem. If that were true, they only live that lifestyle because God made them that way. Think about it. So I think priests and the president and shit, should stop being pricks and let them do it.

Marriage isn't a big thing to me. I CAN do it, yet I don't really want to. I would rather do anything than step foot in a church again. Then there's the gays, who can't, but want to so badly. Hmm, hmm.

Whatever.

 

[MayDay1]

i just got up out of bed so im still alittle tired 😛

But i just thought i would check on my thread and i see that alot of people wrote back to it. But anyways Why do some of you people think that it should be legal? Myself as a christian i shouldn't go against Gods word because it clearly states MARRIAGE should be between a Man and a Woman. it NEVER says Marriage shoud be betweeen a Man and a Man or a Woman and another Woman. Thats for sure it clearly is stated and layed out. and gibby is right i do not Hate Gay people i like them as people (i never said that once in my first thread) what i said was i just do not agree with there lifestyle that Gay people are living.

1. Which version of the Bible would this be? You know there are at least 40 different ones out there that vary widley yet swear that this version is the true word of God.

2. If you don't hate gay people why do you deny them a basic right of life?

3. Who's to say that YOUR God is the one true god. Don't Buddha, Vishnu, Allah (the real Allah, not the bastardized version the Taliban trots around so calm down), Ra, Odin, Zeus, and Bob Dobbs have a say in this?

4. A Christian Goth band is a contradiction. You're either one or the other. Not the subject at hand I know but something that just caught my eye.

 

[rackabones]

Thou shalt not kill

If George W. Bush wants to be a christian he should think about this commandment... and then REPENT

 

[tummynavelboy]

1. Which version of the Bible would this be? You know there are at least 40 different ones out there that vary widley yet swear that this version is the true word of God.

2. If you don't hate gay people why do you deny them a basic right of life?

3. Who's to say that YOUR God is the one true god. Don't Buddha, Vishnu, Allah (the real Allah, not the bastardized version the Taliban trots around so calm down), Ra, Odin, Zeus, and Bob Dobbs have a say in this?

4. A Christian Goth band is a contradiction. You're either one or the other. Not the subject at hand I know but something that just caught my eye.

1. The word of God will never change it will stay the same through years and years to come. i read the NIV new living Translation bible


2. i don't deny them the basic right to life i just do not belive in Gays getting married. i feel its not right


3. Yeah all religions (expect Satanism) claim to have some sort of God or Gods but they aren't the True God. and being a Christian is not a religion anyways its a Relationship with God and with him alone. and if you wanna live your life without Jesus then thats your choice freedom of will... im done preaching though

4. Christian Goth bands=Serving Jesus Christ plain and simple NOT serving this world and having the mind frame of this world but Having the mind frame of Christ and serving him. the only difference between a chrisitna goth band and a non one is that they sing about Christ where most non christian Goth bands don't.


back to the Topic at hand which is Gays and Marriage thank you :happy:

 

[MayDay1]

1. The word of God will never change it will stay the same through years and years to come. i read the NIV new living Translation bible


2. i don't deny them the basic right to life i just do not belive in Gays getting married. i feel its not right


3. Yeah all religions (expect Satanism) claim to have some sort of God or Gods but they aren't the True God. and being a Christian is not a religion anyways its a Relationship with God and with him alone. and if you wanna live your life without Jesus then thats your choice freedom of will... im done preaching though

4. Christian Goth bands=Serving Jesus Christ plain and simple NOT serving this world and having the mind frame of this world but Having the mind frame of Christ and serving him. the only difference between a chrisitna goth band and a non one is that they sing about Christ where most non christian Goth bands don't.


back to the Topic at hand which is Gays and Marriage thank you :happy:

Hoo boy.......

1. It allready has. Lots of times

2. I didn't say you denied the right to live, I said you denied a right OF life. And you just did it in that sentance.

3. Are you sure yours is the one true god? There's a lot of people who think their god is the true one and it ain't the same as yours. Somebody's wrong and it might be you.

4. Goth is about alienation and hopelessness. And most of the people in that community got that way because they were alienated by society at large, especially churches. Look it up.

And one more thing. Do you personally know a homosexual?

If it sounds like I'm picking on you I'm not. It's just that your reasoning has holes big enough to drive a tank through.

 

[frye45]

I have been over this gay marriage issue a thousand times--including in the court system--and the one charge the anti-marriage crowd has NEVER answered is, "How does gay marriage present a threat to straight marriage?" For all the vague talk of sanctity of the institution and word of God and the Constitution--which, by the way, makes reference to "pursuit of happiness"--no one has ever answered that question. And don't tell me it will lead to bestiality and incest. To compare a loving gay couple to a pedophile is downright insulting. Of course it should be legal! What is there to discuss?

And for everyone's information, civil unions are not the same as marriage!! There are still certain issues that are not resolved by civil unions unless the couple wants to jump through a mangled series of legal hoops. And why should they have to?

All of Bush's talk of "activist judges" is just another of his little ploys to placate his conservative base. If it weren't for activist judges, interracial marriage would still be illegal and African Americans would be in separate schools. The Supreme Court stated that separate is rarely equal, and so it is with marriage vs. civil unions. As long as we say that gays can have separate rights but not equal rights, what kind of open-minded society are we?

Perhaps you can tell this issue is very personal to me.

 

[Kalamos]

I've read all the posts so far... I'm not familiar enough with american laws and associations. But Frye's point on civil union is VERY sound and good.

And it's been debated in europe too, about legal marriages and de-facto marriages.
It's not only a matter of semantics: it also means, for instance, a gay spouse can inherit should the partner pass out. They can get all manners of help from the state, tax reductions, fundings to buy home.

As you see, it boils down to money too, not only "generic" dignity or equal treatment.

Speaking of Right and Wrong... I'm italian - as you probably know. Most of my teachers were priests, and could see the human beings beyond the cloth.

I've studied a bit of theology too, so while I respect religion, I hold little awe towards it.

So I fail to accept dogmas as true believers can. For instance, I can't see why God [or a god] should be so interested in fertile couples [Go forth and multiply] and be so horrified by barren unions.

I suppose this is the real problems with gay couples - a problem nobody has commented upon, yet.

They can bear NO children - and marriage, for example, would let them [oh, my goodness... 😉 😉 😉 ] ADOPT one. Maybe a war orphan... But no, where can we get one? 😉 😉 😉

Is that God really a loving Father [or Mother], or just celestial breeder?

Come on! I don't personally know many gay couples, but I can't see why they shouldn't get what have been [correctly IMHO] called basic rights.

I can't even see masses of evil gays bent on overthrowing traditional family system.

They are just ppl with a particular sexual disposition, and they are not inherently evil - or good.

What I can see is a bunch of leaders bent on making a fuss over trivial matters, while real world is going on elsewhere...


As usual, my respectful - yet heartfelt - 2 eurocents. 😉

Reg's.

 

[tummynavelboy]

Hoo boy.......

1. It allready has. Lots of times

2. I didn't say you denied the right to live, I said you denied a right OF life. And you just did it in that sentance.

3. Are you sure yours is the one true god? There's a lot of people who think their god is the true one and it ain't the same as yours. Somebody's wrong and it might be you.

4. Goth is about alienation and hopelessness. And most of the people in that community got that way because they were alienated by society at large, especially churches. Look it up.

And one more thing. Do you personally know a homosexual?

If it sounds like I'm picking on you I'm not. It's just that your reasoning has holes big enough to drive a tank through.

Back on topic now People 🙂


Homosexuality

God finds homosexual behavior detestable (Leviticus 18:22)

the Word detestable means=offensive to the mind,scorn,repulsive behavior etc...

God will judge thoses who practice homosexual behavior (Romans 1:18-32)

Homosexual behavior has no place among Christians (1 corinthians 6:9-10)


But yeah true that even some christians im sure are homosexual but that does MEAN that God does not still love them because he does. he loves all his children that follow him and belive in him that he died on that Cross


i would like to hear more belivers like gibby how do you feel on what everybody has said first on all this

 

[maverick83]

lol...I see I got into this one late. I hate work! Well anyway, here are my thoughts on the gay marriage issue.

Denying homosexuals the right of legal marriage is discrimination. (Religious marriage may be another case, but that decision is in the hands of the religious institution a given homosexual couple wishes to be wed by.) A homosexual can’t help being gay any more than I can help being straight. As for religious beliefs, let’s not go ass-backwards. I realize our laws were originally based on religious beliefs, but I think it’s time for a change. No longer is one belief system shared by 99.9% of the population, and our laws need to reflect that. We need to define laws as based on that which is essential for the survival of humanity and the equal rights of human beings. I am tired of people saying that this country was founded on Christian beliefs. No. This country was founded on a little thing called freedom, including freedom of religion. To make that statement is to push one’s religious beliefs on others, and is the exact opposite of what this country was founded on. But back to the point. Religious beliefs aside, there is no harm in homosexual marriage. I say let ‘em get married, and mind your own business.

If I may ask a question about the religious issue, though...why would your God condemn something a person has no control over?

 

[Jamandi]

BellyButtonsRoc quote: all religions (expect Satanism) claim to have some sort of God or Gods.

Not true, what about Goddesses and religions without any God, Goddesses, or Gods like Buddhism. And no, the Buda is not considered a God. Also in regards to God not liking the gay life style, what exactly is a gay life style? Is watching the Tony Awards shunned by God? Speaking of lifestyles God doesn't like, don't you think posting on a sexually related internet site where thousands come to cum everyday would be accepted? In that case lets pass a constitutional law banning you from replying to my post because I think it's not an acceptable lifestyle in God's eyes. All those in favor....

-Jamandi-

 

[nessonite1]

BBR...Hun I think you need to stop taking every word in the Bible so literally. First of all it wasn't sent down on a little white cloud completely penned and bound straight from God. It is a collection of prophesies, stories, etc, passed down through many many generations by word of mouth. Many Christian customs were in fact borrowed from other cultures, religeons, etc, as well. To debate over what God meant by wordin something a certain way just doesnt make sense ESPECIALLY since we are reading something that has been translated and retranslated.

My own personal opinion on the matter at hand is that I refuse to tell someone else what is or is not right for them. God/religion not being a part of the discussion for me. Marriage today has gone from a purely religious ceremony to a legal binding of two people. The fact that many people incorperate a religeous ceremony into the deal is the only thing that makes it remotely a spiritual thing.
Also...even if it were 100% clear how God felt about these things our countrie's law clearly states that government shall make no decisions concerning the church and the church shall make no decisions concerning the government. Therefore the Christians, Jews, Buddhusts, whatever...none of them can tell the government "you may not allow two people of the same gender to be legally bound because we think it's wrong.

Anyway...personally I think we've got a lot of bigger problems than this that we could be thinking about. Telling two people they cant be lagally tied to one another just because their plumbing doesnt fit together the normal way doesnt seem very productive.

Look at it this way BBR and the rest of you who are far to that side of this debate...Does God see us as genders? Does he seperate us by race? Hair color? Eye color? All of that is just as insignificant as what we have in our pants. We're all just people.
When you die and go to meet your creator...do you take your penis with you? I dont think God will say...
"You slept with a woman and so did she. But YOU had a penis on earth so you're ok..."
This doesnt need to be a vicious debate. I'm a peacemaker at heart and I want to thank you all for keeping this thread cleaner than it would have been on the TMF.
Kalamos especially...your posts are always well composed.

 

[tummynavelboy]

BellyButtonsRoc quote: all religions (expect Satanism) claim to have some sort of God or Gods.

Not true, what about Goddesses and religions without any God, Goddesses, or Gods like Buddhism. And no, the Buda is not considered a God. Also in regards to God not liking the gay life style, what exactly is a gay life style? Is watching the Tony Awards shunned by God? Speaking of lifestyles God doesn't like, don't you think posting on a sexually related internet site where thousands come to cum everyday would be accepted? In that case lets pass a constitutional law banning you from replying to my post because I think it's not an acceptable lifestyle in God's eyes. All those in favor....

-Jamandi-

Jamandi


and anybody else that wants to Check this link out please do so. The link is about Jesus Christ amongst other Gods teached by: Ravi Zacharias.

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/let_my_people_think/Archives.asp its a two Parter. so please to whoever wants to listen to it Really Listen to it the whole thing. my Dad really likes this guy.

and as well as his website http://www.gospelcom.net/rzim/ravi.php


i know this is off topic. But i just thought i would share this with all of you. you'll also need either Windows or Realtime Player

and NO im not trying to preach down your guys throat



Thank you

ps. i haven't listened to the article but i just some of you Might want to

 

[uttahcee1]

when the post the lord prayer and the 10 commandment back in public display when they allow my chlidren say the pledge to the flag . When they allow me to have a nativaty sceene in a public common, then and only then the socall better than thou liberals
should consider to debate the issue of open marriage.
I'm from massachusetts and I am appalled from the responses of the pro and con side of this issue, I just want to point out some facts that our society need to address 40% of our children come from broken homes
25% live at or below the poverty line 50% of new STD
are children below the age of 16. We need to make a collective effort to put our personal objective aside and help our community

 

[uttahcee1]

for the bible thumpers remember Man interpered God Will I may remind you Man is not God and everything Man touched he usally ###% up

 

[CrypticSlayer]

time to start things with a bang....

well... post #1 for me shall enter the debate that never ends...

Why is it that all topics of this nature somehow invoke religion? Correct me if I'm wrong, but not all of us are Christian, or any other religion for that matter. In a country that supposedly supports the freedom of religion, God somehow shows up in so many debates. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned how the Constitution doesn't have any "separation of church and state" clause. That might be true, but the freedom of religion would logically extend to mean that laws should not be based on religion. If you wanna blast gay marriages, don't use scripture, because it doesn't mean shit to those of us that are agnostic or atheist.

Anyway, what's the big deal about gay marriages? Canada, the Netherlands, and many other 1st World nations that are arguably more desirable to live in don't care, so why do we? For a nation that continually mentions its support for personal freedoms, we seem to be very inconsistent in our behavior. The same people who don't want the government to touch their gun rights should also support the right to make a personal decision between two consenting adults (aka - abortion, euthanasia, and gay marriages)....

 

[maniactickler38]

now im not even close to being religious, but i find it disturbing that the trendy thing nowadays is to attack and deface the bible and christianity. it cant be important i guess, its only how civilization was based on. lets just toss it out. liberalism is slowly poisining our society. you can see it in the declining of morals in this world. lets at least hold on to something half decent while we still can.

 

[gibby59]

now im not even close to being religious, but i find it disturbing that the trendy thing nowadays is to attack and deface the bible and christianity. it cant be important i guess, its only how civilization was based on. lets just toss it out. liberalism is slowly poisining our society. you can see it in the declining of morals in this world. lets at least hold on to something half decent while we still can.

Great post maniac. Comments on some previous posts:

No the Constitution does not reference "pursuit of happiness". The 14th amendment says "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;"

Gay people have all the same rights that I have as a citizen of the United States. I don't have the right to marry a man and neither do they.

People say that this country was founded on Christian beliefs because it was. Yes a homosexual can control their behavior, they are not born gay, they use the gift of free will that God gave them to choose to do what they want to do not what God wants them to do. God condemns their actions because it is detestable to him.

Marriage today has become a legal contract - that's the problem it is supposed to be the uniting of a man and a woman for the rest of their lives, not a contract that you use a lawyer to get out of when you get bored.

The Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". It does not say anything about the church not making any decisions concerning goverment. This amendment was to keep the government out of the church, not to keep the church out of the government. They didn't want what England had, a state religion, where if you didn't belong to the Anglican church you couldn't serve in the government.

When you die and go to meet "your maker" - God will say "He has sinned, He slept with a woman he was not married to. She has sinned, she has slept with a woman."

Question for the agnostics and atheists - What do you base your moral standards on? Without God and the Bible there is no moral standard.....

 

[Jamandi]

Quote: Question for the agnostics and atheists - What do you base your moral standards on? Without God and the Bible there is no moral standard.

Not true according to Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, just to name a few philosophers that founded many thoughts and arguments that were incorporated into the church during the medieval period and which still exist today.

Quote: Marriage today has become a legal contract.

Yes, very true. According to the government of the United States marriage is just a contract between two people. And furthermore the government should not have a say as to who can have a contract with whom. This has happened before with the government or ruling body not allowing minorities to have a legal contract. We now can look back 100 years at the segregation and prejudice of the United States against people of "color" and be appalled and disturbed by how the dominant logic took away their rights and privileges. In the same way 100 years from now people will look back and be appalled and disturbed at the way you have presented and accepted the argument of all men (meaning humankind) were created not equal.

Quote: Yes a homosexual can control their behavior, they are not born gay.

So by that argument then you can remember when you choose to be heterosexual? Are you saying that you can be homosexual: feel attracted to, love, and want to have sex with a person of your same sex on a whim? If you can I would be surprised because I cannot nor have I ever met anyone who could. By the way, if God did give us free will to do as we choose why then not let people of the same sex to choose to get married?

Quote posted earlier: i find it disturbing that the trendy thing nowadays is to attack and deface the bible and christianity.

Considering the number of people the church and christianity have attacked, persecuted, killed, raped, slaughtered, and defaced in the name of peace and love, I find it's a very logical thing for people to start questioning and arguing against the moral injustices that have been committed. The very fact that you can argue against arguing shows the limited vision of your logic.

-Jamandi-

 

[alf1]

Question for the agnostics and atheists - What do you base your moral standards on? Without God and the Bible there is no moral standard.....

How about taking each person education as example of moral standarts instead of bible ?
I would believe in something but there is nothing : the quicker you get it the better you feel ( my opinion ). I think that religion is one of the principal causes of wars since centuries. Besides i do not like the fact that religion is commercial.
How can you believe in something that does not exist - since proved - and all are saying yes it does it does 🙄. Are you just a good christian or other just reading the bible and going to churches ??? If you can understand the fact that you can be as good christian without going to churches and so - just helping people and be open minded - well that will be already good.
You are just believing in two words : bible / god - hey we are in the 21st century - things have evoluated for a while 🙂 open your mind !!!
Final : err sorry to say it but i think that religion is an escape for people that are lost and weak.....wow i'll be fired for that LOL......To say i write it cause i saw many people like that - so do not think i am against all believers.
My atheistic response 🙂

 

[tummynavelboy]

How about taking each person education as example of moral standarts instead of bible ?
I would believe in something but there is nothing : the quicker you get it the better you feel ( my opinion ). I think that religion is one of the principal causes of wars since centuries. Besides i do not like the fact that religion is commercial.
How can you believe in something that does not exist - since proved - and all are saying yes it does it does 🙄. Are you just a good christian or other just reading the bible and going to churches ??? If you can understand the fact that you can be as good christian without going to churches and so - just helping people and be open minded - well that will be already good.
You are just believing in two words : bible / god - hey we are in the 21st century - things have evoluated for a while 🙂 open your mind !!!
Final : err sorry to say it but i think that religion is an escape for people that are lost and weak.....wow i'll be fired for that LOL......To say i write it cause i saw many people like that - so do not think i am against all believers.
My atheistic response 🙂

why do you say People of religion and religious people is an escape for people for the lost and weak? Then Atheist and Agnostics are in ways religions as well. so if you fall into either thoses categories your weak as lost as well Just like the next person. and also about you saying that how can you belive in something does not exist. Then if truely God and Heaven and Hell and all that is tied in with it Does not exist at all and its all been a lie for all this Time. Then we all can sin freely without having to worry about going anywhere when we Die. we'll just Die and lay in our Grave in the dirt and maggots. and also another point if God and everything does not exist i can go out and Rape and murder people without having to worry about my eternal home. But i just do not belive that is the Case. The whole reason why we as all fellow man Sin and love Sin is because of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden when Eve took a bite of the fruit because of the serpent tricking her.

here is a site i found online that looks helpful for Atheists and Agnostics
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html

 

[Kalamos]

There a couple of thinks I can not understand.

-> BBR

First, BBR suggested a reading - a listening, actually - since his daddy considered it good for him.

He admitted he hasn't listened to it. So, what is he suggesting exactly? Really, if you are just relating your father's opinions, please, step aside, and let him chat with us.

[If you can bear to tell him you are subscribed to an ADULT forum, that is... 😉

My family is aware of my sexual inclination... is yours too? 😉 ]


Edit:

What about living a sane life IN YOUR life? Or are you really more interested in afterlife?

We die. We all do. What about making THIS life less miserable for all?


-> Maniac

Second, you said you aren't religious, yet you say without a religion we wouldn't have decency.

I'd like to put it with tact but... please make up your mind. 🙂
You are implying you are without decency too, since you are not religious.


-> Gibby

I don't usually disagree on beliefs. I am aware religions are made up of metaphores, allegories, and mythical tales - which all need to be translated and shouldn't be taken "as are".

I can't understand two points, though: why a loving God is so interested in human sexual life? And: why loving christians are so keen on calling Wrong ppl who don't follow their religion?

I've been exposed to catholicism. I learnt my prayers. I studied scriptures and myths.

Yet I don't call amoral ppl who don't say their prayers, nor consider them evil just because they behave according to their own ethic compass.

We gots ethics, laws, conventions, to make up for the shortcomings of religion.
Besides, religion changes over times too - and unless you hold on scriptures alone - are you christian or catholic? - you are aware of that.

You don't follow Hammurabi's laws, so, how can you follow Bible alone? Old Testament was written by Jews for Jews... and even New Testament was actually a collection of chronicles put together by jews who met or heard of Christ.

It would be like using only Dos 5.0 without ever upgrading it. 🙂


-> All around

I was thinking about it: we are writing freely of sexual matters, posting on an adult forum.

While atheists probably have no problem with this, I can't understand why strict christians can bear to do it.

Even onanism is considered Wrong - and I'm sure someone, here, will quote scriptures better than me. 🙂

So, coming here and spreading semen purposelessly on nude girls should be considered Foolish too.

My question is: are you aware that sexual fetishes are considered very close to onanism?

Don't you feel like confessing your sins, now, since you are wasting your time and semen on a Wrong site?

Or is it Right, just because you like it?

...

No, really, it was just rethoric. 😉


As always, with respect to you all.
Reg's.

 

[alf1]

Then Atheist and Agnostics are in ways religions as well

Atheism a religion ??? new to me - well i just want that someone tell me : can you be a good catholic without that bible and going to church on sundays ?

 

[tummynavelboy]

Kalamos


i just suggesting that you or anybody else that wanted actually Listen to website that i posted. But im sure you did NOT listen to it. Ravi Zachious has more knowledge about the bible and faith in Christianty and about other religions then most people ever would and im sure you would as well. he's been studing it for it years and years

so just at least listen to it. im not having you to have agree on the things the man says... give it a try

and don't use the word daddy its sounds like something a 6 year old would use!

 

[alf1]

and don't use the word daddy its sounds like something a 6 year old would use!

LOL Daddy daddy cool * trumpet* daddy daddy cool !!! BM

 

[Kalamos]

It would seem I touched a nerve, there. 😉

And about Ravi Zachious: I am italian. I can read and listen to italian theologists. Why should I listen to a christian preacher, being myself an italian catholic?

Roman Catholic Church is the oldest and foremost. And they look upon non-catholic christians as misguided individuals.

So, since you are not catholic - but just christian - you would be considered a misguided "heathen", thus Wrong.

...

See? It's really easy to call upon religion and radicalize everything. 😉

By invoking religious supremacy, I could call you Wrong, since you are not roman catholic. And you will never ever be, since you are not italian, let alone roman.

What can you do about it? Nothing. You are Wrong by roman catholic book.

How does it feel? 😉

...

And still, you don't reply to the real question: what about making THIS life LESS miserable?

Religion can answer about afterlife. But what about beforedeath? 🙂


Again, go and ask your father, if you feel like having a nice adult chat with him.


Best catholic wishes. 😉
Reg's.