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Science and Religion

misterpedi said:
http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/19023/gravity-doesnt-exist
You mean Gravity? You believe in that nonsence?
http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/19023/gravity-doesnt-exist
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I don't care if you don't believe it. It's the same thing with people who don't believe in evolution, or people who don't believe in the frontal lobe of our brains. It's there; we've demonstrated how it works, and why it works.

As for your link, I would appreciate something with a .org or .gov. I could make some bullshit newspaper site and post it up as well, and the first amendment allows me to do that legally.
 
Mash16 said:
I don't care if you don't believe it. It's the same thing with people who don't believe in evolution, or people who don't believe in the frontal lobe of our brains. It's there; we've demonstrated how it works, and why it works.

As for your link, I would appreciate something with a .org or .gov. I could make some bullshit newspaper site and post it up as well, and the first amendment allows me to do that legally.
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Do you think I'm capable of making this stuff up?:huh Heres another from the Ny times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/science/13gravity.html
 
misterpedi said:
Do you think I'm capable of making this stuff up?:huh Heres another from the Ny times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/science/13gravity.html
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All of that? Nothing but speculation. I saw no mentions of tests that they've run, or any evidence that they've started to gather. It is speculation based on placeholders like dark matter and dark energy.

Numerous experiments have shown that gravity does exist, and as the mass of an object increases, so does the gravity that the object exhibits. That is a plain and simple correlation between two variables. It doesn't get any more fundamental than that. It would be absolute garbage science to completely disregard that correlation, and assume that gravity is a figment of our imagination, and that the mass of an object really has nothing to do with anything, without providing some semblance of factual information.

And no, I don't think any normal person could just make something like that up. Like I have said numerous times before; when you give me something to believe, that can be tested and observed, then I will believe in it. In fact, that is exactly why I believe in gravity; it can be tested and observed.
 
Mash16 said:
In fact, that is exactly why I believe in gravity; it can be tested and observed.
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Don't be absurb, you can't prove gravity exists , just like you can't prove air exists or physical matter, evolution or anything. You can only prove by science the "experience" of matter and the laws of physics.It doesn't mean any of it actually exists. That study is beyond science.
 
misterpedi said:
Don't be absurb, you can't prove gravity exists , just like you can't prove air exists or physical matter, evolution or anything. You can only prove by science the "experience" of matter and the laws of physics.It doesn't mean any of it actually exists. That study is beyond science.
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If it didn't exist, we wouldn't be able to physically interact with it.
 
Mash16 said:
If it didn't exist, we wouldn't be able to physically interact with it.
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We can only interact with it because it consists of the same virtual energy (information) that we are. If the information was any different, everything would be a "phantom" or non-existent at all.
We only "experience" this Material Reality, we don't actually live here.
 
Well, this is clearly an endless argument. Until I can manage to reason with you, or until you can provide substantial evidence, neither one of us will change our perspectives.
 
misterpedi said:
Its a hefty read, but let me know what you think.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6176356/The-Physical-World-As-a-Virtual-Reality-by-Brian-Whitworth
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I'm not going to lie to you; I didn't read the whole thing. I don't have time to, and the reader that it's being displayed on is messing up some of the sentences making it annoying to read.

Anyways, it is an interesting concept, and it certainly is possible...but that's the same view I have on theism.

Show me one test. One single test that they have run to verify that this is all just digital information. Well, not even verify; one test that suggests that none of this is even physical matter. While what you're suggesting is indeed possible, it is what we call an outlandish claim.

No theory is accepted as fact before it is tested and verified. Until they can do that, this will remain just that; a theory.
 
Oh boy. I really didn't expect this to come up on TT, but it's a topic close to my heart, so I'll pitch in my little opinion. I'm studying engineering at the moment, so these issues do crop up from time to time.

Ultimately, the issue of proving or disproving religion seems to be beyond the faculties of science. No matter how much science can illuminate, there will always be further questions to be answered. A few hundred years ago, it was believed that a higher being made plants grow and tallied the fall of every sparrow - nowadays, it seems like religion plays a different role.

I don't think that the bible has any place in education or learning but people should be allowed to believe what they want. As long as religion is held separate from matters of science (and government), they should be fine. I am non-religious and I personally have no issue with believers.

"If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men." - Robert Ingersoll

I do have an issue with negative, fear-based preaching in religion of many stripes. When promised with eternal rewards or threatened with eternal damnation in the afterlife, people can do unthinkable things.

“Science is the key to our future, and if you don’t believe in science, then you’re holding everybody back. And it’s fine if you as an adult want to run around pretending or claiming that you don’t believe in evolution, but if we educate a generation of people who don’t believe in science, that’s a recipe for disaster. … The main idea in all of biology is evolution. To not teach it to our young people is wrong.” - Bill Nye

I think this mostly speaks for itself. The education system should be allowed to operate without having to worrying about interpretations of religious texts. I firmly believe that an educated populace is better for everyone in essentially every way.

<3s all.
 
Mash what is your obsession with the man made flawed beliefs of religion or atheism as providing any absolute answers... You have turned this forum into a "What's the sound of a one hand clapping" koan. It's becoming an endless stream of insane obsession! Let's just call it heads or tails.
 
If you think that atheists contend that "atheism provides absolute answers" then you've missed the point entirely. You are fractally wrong in thinking that. Atheism's contention is "I don't believe, because there isn't proof to justify belief". It's really as simple as that. Bravo on getting that wrong. /slowclap
 
Adalon said:
Oh boy. I really didn't expect this to come up on TT, but it's a topic close to my heart, so I'll pitch in my little opinion. I'm studying engineering at the moment, so these issues do crop up from time to time.

Ultimately, the issue of proving or disproving religion seems to be beyond the faculties of science. No matter how much science can illuminate, there will always be further questions to be answered. A few hundred years ago, it was believed that a higher being made plants grow and tallied the fall of every sparrow - nowadays, it seems like religion plays a different role.

I don't think that the bible has any place in education or learning but people should be allowed to believe what they want. As long as religion is held separate from matters of science (and government), they should be fine. I am non-religious and I personally have no issue with believers.
Click to expand...

Ah, but see...the idea of God is infallible in the sense that no scientific discovery could ever prove it wrong...but no such thing applies to Religion. Religion is nothing more than a group of people who listen to fairytales that not only can they not prove as true, but they refuse to listen to any criticism regarding said stories. There is evidence that proves religion as false, because the evidence presents that things did not happen as religion has said they have.

Mash what is your obsession with the man made flawed beliefs of religion or atheism as providing any absolute answers... You have turned this forum into a "What's the sound of a one hand clapping" koan. It's becoming an endless stream of insane obsession! Let's just call it heads or tails.
Click to expand...

I dare you to find a post where I said that Atheism had all the answers. Religion is about as close as you will get to finding all the answers...however, that doesn't make those answers true.

I have an obsession with keeping lies out of our school systems. I have an obsession with keeping children from believing that they will burn in hell for throwing one of their classmates a not-so-innocent glance. Why do I obsess over these things?

Because they make outrageous, and overall outlandish claims without one minuscule particle of evidence to support them. I will not have my kids believing that they will go to hell unless they can run a test that so much as suggests that such a place exists.
 
Don't sweat it. Da Vinci invented everything, Nostradamus prophesyed everything down to the color of your socks, and King James of England was the foremost expert on what God thought and did.

Don't you guys know that stuff? It's common knowledge, just like the aliens coming through the black hole at the center of the galaxy, riding on the planet Nibiru to use their magical magnetic-field-changey-thingy in 2012.

Or that Paul McCartney is dead.

Or that JFK wasn't murdered.

The Moon landings were fake.

Mr. Whipple was really a Muslim terrorist bent on world domination.

Captain fucking Kangaroo was really the Second Coming, people.

Just get over it.
 
It's one thing to say don't sweat it, but when the conservative christian crowd has legislative power to violate the first amendment, it tends to upset those of us that believe in secularism.
 
PurpleStyle said:
It's one thing to say don't sweat it, but when the conservative christian crowd has legislative power to violate the first amendment, it tends to upset those of us that believe in secularism.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know.

But I like making light of anything and everything.
 
Actually a particle can easily tunnel through a potential barrier because no barrier is perfectly solid but is instead comprised of masses of interacting particles that are not perfectly stationary and are spaced apart from each other with gaps of varying sizes in between them because they all possess heat energy and of course their energy at zero-point which is mass which prevents the particles from being at definite positions at all times, and the exclusion principle which prohibits an infinite number of particles from being in the same space at the same time preventing a perfectly sealed barrier with no gaps from being formed. So in consideration of these facts there is a non-zero probability that the moving particles in a solid will move apart from each other at a certain point in time, generating a gap which will give a freely moving particle the chance to pass through. Though people do not notice this because it is undetectable to the 21 senses, there is molecular, atomic and particle motion in a stationary solid even at room temperature. This is also the reason why a semiconductor's efficiency increases and its resistivity decreases with increasing temperature because the rise in temperature increases the movement of molecules, atoms, and particles in the diffusion region which increases the frequency at which large gaps in the diffusion region's space are generated which in turn gives more electrons from a power supply the chance to pass through. In the case of superconductors however, conductivity increases with decreasing temperature because the lattice structural gaps are more stable and uniform when the molecules, atoms and particles of the conductor are moving at a slower rate making it easier for free electrons to pass through these gaps. So in the case of semiconductors and superconductors, increasing conductivity depends on the use of temperature to generate gaps which are sufficient to permit electric current to flow through.

In Summary:

Semiconductor - increase in temperature will cause the molecules, atoms and particles that would normally block current flow in a stable non-conductive lattice structure that makes up the diffusion region to move apart with greater frequency generating gaps at a higher rate to provide more chances for electrons to flow through.

Superconductor - increase in temperature will cause the molecules, atoms and particles that would normally permit current flow in a stable conductive lattice structure that makes up the conductor to move apart with greater frequency, decreasing the stability and uniformity of the tunnels in the lattice structure providing less chances for electrons to flow through.

In conclusion, the effect of heat on a material's electrical conductivity depends on the lattice structure of the atoms in that material. Semi-conductive materials require an increase in temperature to break their resistance to electric current while conductive materials require a decrease in temperature to make their lattice tunnels more stable and provide a profile that is easier for electrons to travel through.
 
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Sight, Hearing, Taste, Smell, Touch, Balance and acceleration, Temperature, Kinesthetic sense, Pain, Other internal senses.
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Guess what sense I could do without.
 
Oh Mash...you silly little deceiver you...isn't he silly people? Yes he is. Oh yes he is! Who's a silly? YOUR A SILLY! (pats Mash on his head) :stickout
 
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