Should fake tickle model be paid?

[Leostar]

The only way you are going to get realy off the way ticklish ladys, ones that think they are going to lose it and beg like you have never seen, you must pay big money. Thats why most tickling clips of ticklish ladys are realy not that good.The more you pay the better you get.

 

[WorkInProgress]

In my opinion, you owe her every penny of the $50 and are guilty of having robbed her of $50. It's your job to know how to screen and select models, and now you know that merely advertising with the word "ticklish" isn't enough. You hired her sight unseen, and you owe her the pay. It would be different if you had explicitly told her that you needed to audition her and that she would only get paid if certain things worked out. Let me put this emphatically: You have an ethical obligation to pay her the full $50 and to apologize to her for having suggested otherwise. She didn't deceive you; you did an unsuccessful job of screening and selecting her. You owe her $50.

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

When you talk to them on the telephone you should tell them to make sure they get a good nights sleep. Even if she was ticklish the last thing you want is an exhausted lee before she even gets tickled. I'm sure its difficult to laugh and be cheery when you are yawning.

As for answering your question....Yes, I think she deserves something for showing up. You don't want a reputation of wasting models time unless you specify from the beginning that this is only an interview/casting call and she'll be paid after the shoot if she is picked. That way she'll know that nothing is permanent yet.

 

[The Last Laugh]

When you talk to them on the telephone you should tell them to make sure they get a good nights sleep. Even if she was ticklish the last thing you want is an exhausted lee before she even gets tickled. I'm sure its difficult to laugh and be cheery when you are yawning.

Unfortunately, not everyone is responsible and reliable enough to respect such instructions. I can't count the times I've told models to prepare themselves in a certain way or to bring special clothes or accessories, only to have them forget or ignore my instructions. That includes models going out and getting drunk the night before a shoot. Or models who arrive here for a shoot and, without warning, tell me they have to leave early, giving me about half the time I need to do a proper shoot, putting a lot of pressure on me, no matter how much I insisted that I need a certain amount of time to do a good, non-rushed job (for which I'm paying, by the way). Or it could be simpler things, like a model who comes wearing red nail polish when I clearly told her that I tend to favor unpainted nails, or at least more youthful/modern colors. Admittedly, it's a small detail, of no importance at all. But, you know, when you hire someone and pay them for their time, you kind of expect them to follow your instructions within reason, especially since they're so easy to follow. But some people just don't make the effort. Believe me, models can be a pain to work with sometimes.

 

[The Last Laugh]

Let me put this emphatically: You have an ethical obligation to pay her the full $50 and to apologize to her for having suggested otherwise. She didn't deceive you; you did an unsuccessful job of screening and selecting her. You owe her $50.

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree with you. It's not like he did a full shoot with her. He only tested her for 10 minutes, trying his best to find a way to offer her the job. He offered her $50 dollars for an hour, not for 10 minutes. He never told her he would pay her $50 for 10 minutes of unsuccessful testing. If she isn't ticklish enough, it may not be her fault, but it's certainly not his fault either.

The way I see it, the part of the shoot at the beginning that's spent testing a model to determine her potential *is* the screening process. It doesn't matter if the screening and the actual shoot are done on separate days or one after the other. If anything, it's more convenient for the model to do it all at once. That way she only has to travel once. If the tickling works, the shoot can be done right after the screening. If it doesn't work, well, that's too bad, but at least the model only has to come once, which is exactly what would have happened if she had come specifically for a screening and failed the test.

That being said, I do think offering a small compensation for a candidate's time is a good thing to do. But I simply can't agree that a producer is under any obligation to pay a model the salary for a full shoot if she doesn't have the qualifications. Who hires and pays a clearly unqualified candidate? The models are told they need to be ticklish. That's the most important prerequisite for a tickling shoot. If they turn out not to be, they can't expect to receive a salary. It makes no sense at all.

 

[cblue020]

I didn't read every post in this thread I just thought I would add my two cents...

She was obviously wrong when she told you she was ticklish. I don't use the word "lie" loosely cuz you know, maybe she hasn't been tickled in five or ten years and she was ticklish back then. More to the point, I have paid for content before, such as from tickletown.com. I know some other people are different but I would never pay to see a non-ticklish girl get tickled. I think most of us can tell when a girl is faking it. The way I see it is there is enough content out there of cute ticklish girls getting tickled, why spend money on anything else? I respect you for using only genuinely ticklish models. Of course someone did mention that she might have had friends to send your way. True, you never know. I suppose you *could* have offered ten or twenty bucks and gotten pictures. Certainly don't blame you for turning her away though.

 

[Leostar]

We need many more very off the wall ticklish girls. Where have all the ticklish girl gone? Like the honey bees no one knows.

 

[WorkInProgress]

I will amend what I said, but only slightly.

If Darksidekrys made it crystal-clear to the model that the $50 was conditional on passing a test upon arrival at the taping session, so that she knew that she had not yet been hired for a $50 job but had only been invited for a screen test as a step toward being hired, then the advice he is receiving here makes sense.

However:

If Darksidekrys did not make this clear, then he, rather than she, is the one who failed to live up to the agreement, and this story is purely and simply an example of how models are vulnerable to being ripped off by unscrupulous video producers. If he merely asked her if she was ticklish, and relied on a "yes" answer to offer her a job, then he is the one who did not know what he was doing in the casting promise, this is nobody's mistake but his own, and he is a thief if he does not pay her the entire $50.

I will say again: If he made it crystal-clear to her on the phone that the $50 was contingent on an outcome which might or might not occur, then it is a different story. If he did not do this, then he is a thief for not paying the full $50.

 

[hailie]

i hate fake laughing

 

[Scouse]

Although not what you set out for, in future situations it may be an idea to meet in the middle. If a model isn't ticklish then as far as tickling media goes, she has nothing to offer you. However, although a primary fetish for many users here, I could list a handful of related kinks that a lot of your target audience would be into.

One great thing about clips is that they last forever. Half an hour or so of a girl who isn't ticklish wiggling her toes about is going to appeal to a lot of people and its a safe bet that over time you'd get your fifty dollars back.

I don't want to use words like lie or robbed, but if even just to keep your reputation intact, I'd work out something with the model instead of telling them to go home and not receive a penny.

 

[RavenMoon]

If Darksidekrys did not make this clear, then he, rather than she, is the one who failed to live up to the agreement, and this story is purely and simply an example of how models are vulnerable to being ripped off by unscrupulous video producers. If he merely asked her if she was ticklish, and relied on a "yes" answer to offer her a job, then he is the one who did not know what he was doing in the casting promise, this is nobody's mistake but his own, and he is a thief if he does not pay her the entire $50.

I will say again: If he made it crystal-clear to her on the phone that the $50 was contingent on an outcome which might or might not occur, then it is a different story. If he did not do this, then he is a thief for not paying the full $50.

He made it VERY clear that he is new to this... and NOT an "unscrupulous video producer". He came here for ideas, thoughts and help, not for blatant name calling. While you do have some decent points in your argument, stating them without the attacking language would have been more productive.

~*~*~*~

What I have encountered in the past with photography sessions is that many photographers will reschedule if need be. I have sat for erotica sessions and have had to be rescheduled due to excessive bruising because I had a BDSM session to close to the photo session. So you have this option as well if you have a contracted model who is not preforming well at the time...

 

[WorkInProgress]

Ravenmoon: I see your point, and I'm not exactly trying to say "you're unscrupulous" to the gentleman who opened the thread. However, I did feel the need to impress on him that, unless he made clear on the phone that payment was contingent on an outcome, he is now in possession of $50 which does not belong to him but rather belongs to that model. Inexperience doesn't alter this. It merely makes it understandable that he might not have known until it was explained to him.

To put it another way, did he make it clear that she was not yet hired, or did he hire her and then fire her? This needs to be clearly defined.

My main reason for the strong language was that a lot of other people on this board were telling him that he was right to keep the money, or that he should pay her some of it, and there were so many voices saying this that it was a little like feeling I had to shout to be heard.

If he made clear to her on the phone that she was not yet hired, only a candidate for possibly being hired if a certain outcome occurred, it's a different story.

 

[Scouse]

I have to back WorkInProgress up on this. A lot of what he/she said, I planned to bring up myself until I came across his/her first post.

 

[RavenMoon]

Ravenmoon: I see your point, and I'm not exactly trying to say "you're unscrupulous" to the gentleman who opened the thread....

...My main reason for the strong language was that a lot of other people on this board were telling him that he was right to keep the money, or that he should pay her some of it, and there were so many voices saying this that it was a little like feeling I had to shout to be heard.

Which is why I said you did bring up good points, except proper tact is more effective than calling him a thief. And I do truly hope he learns from this and develops a better way to sort through potential models.

It is hard for producers and photographers when there are those unscrupulous types out there that do take advantage of models. It is twice as hard for those just starting out as there are so many ropes to learn and things to take under consideration of both sides of the lens.

It may be wise for him to do a little search as well, since there are sources out there online for contract examples and model screening. He can also find things to consider such as image releases/copyrights and industry accepted practices.

 

[WorkInProgress]

And I do truly hope he learns from this and develops a better way to sort through potential models.

Before he does that, I hope he calls the model and apologizes for the delay in paying her the $50 which he is now on his way to her with--unless that other contingency in my note was met. Being too soft-spoken would have blunted that part of the message, the fact that he still owes her and must pay her unless you-know-what. I will consider him deserving of being called unscrupulous and a thief if he doesn't do that now. Essentially, I'm giving him an F but allowing him an A if he rewrites the paper. Inexperience is only an excuse if he's willing to admit his error now, unless--again--he told her in advance that payment was contingent on an outcome.

Scouse: Thanks for your post. I'm male, by the way.

 

[huskys]

You can usually tell if people are trying to scam you.
If she did absolutely nothing and then put her hand out for some cash than that is wrong.
If she honestly gave it a try and it just didn't work out, then that is a different matter.
I would pay for the legitimate effort even though not ticklish, and tell the scam artist to take a hike!!!

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Yep... as already mentioned, I would have paid her about $15 for coming, and maybe would have offered her more for some referrals of her genuinely ticklish friends.

Also, if she was cute, she may be useful as a future LER as well. Maybe she would do great for some feet work/ photo shoots. So, I probably wouldn't have put her out.

What amazes me is that you had a model respond for only $50 for 1 hour. WOW that's a deal and a steal!

My 2 cents
Sunny

 

[darksidekrys]

Thank you all for your feedback. I appreciate every word. Just to make things a little clearer.
1. I am a female
2. I spoke to the model several times on the phone and thru email; I stressed to her the need to be genuinely ticklish for the shoot. I have included the email sent to her initial response to my ad.


For this session, I am offering up to $50.00 per hour of shooting.

I do many types of clips, but in any clips that I do, you will never be asked to show anymore than you would in a family water park. (Bathing suit shoots pay more of course.)

Duties:

Your job would be, to be genuinely ticklish, be tickled, be sexy, be comfortable in a girl/girl situation, laugh and have fun. You must be genuinely ticklish though, or the camera will tell on you. I ask that you bring a couple of outfits with you. (shorts and t-shirt, secretary type outfit with stockings and heels, and an outfit of your choosing.). I can not stress enough that this is not escort work. This is legal fetish play with no sexual contact. It is a safe environment (my home) and you can expect to have lots of fun with it. You will need to bring your ID and SS Card for proof of age.

Me:

I am a female producer and shoot video for my online clip store. I am straight, married and have children so there are no worries about me being interested in anything but the video. I have a demand for girl/girl fetish play. If you want, you can check out my clip store to see what I do. It is all good clean fun that pays.


----------


My feeling, (while respecting all others) I went to great extent to stress the need to be genuinely ticklish for the shoot. She knew that she was not when she agreed to do the shoot. I know that I have a lot to learn, but to shell out $50.00 every time someone shows up after lying would be detrimental wouldn't it?

I wouldn't tell a person that I was a plumber and show up unable to do plumbing work and want money.

As stated in earlier responses, maybe I should have offered her something in good faith., but to be call a thief for not paying a thief seems a little unfair.

Again, thank you all for your input, it has been very enlightening and I know that I still have a lot more to learn.

 

[Rupert]

actually ur email to her clearly says that the money is for an hour of shooting...

given this new knowledge i agree that she was warned and knew ahead of time what qualified her for payment.
She did not deliver and therefore does not deserve payment

 

[Coda]

You should have been clear about the terms beforehand so that the question wouldn't have been necessary.

If it was your fault that it was unclear, then it would have been kind to have given her the benefit of the doubt and paid her something for her time.

EDIT: I just read your last response. If you specified clearly that you paid $50 for up to an hour of her time, and you used any of her time to shoot, then yes, you definitely should have paid her. If you need to make sure the model is ticklish to your satisfaction before they qualify to be paid, then you should state that clearly as well.

 

[Kleptomaniac]

I believe the choice was fair.

If she recorded the unticklish encounter and sold it without giving a fair share or paying, I could see a biiig problem there. I highly doubt she plans to try and sell us a video showing a woman who just lays there and doesn't react.

The request was for a model who was extremely ticklish. Even just a little ticklish, giggles here and there, would hold up that end of the bargain. It sounds like she was as sensitive as a stone. There is no obligation to pay just for her to show up when she didn't meet the requirements.

I mean... if you were looking for a hand model for a commercial, a woman responds and says she has gorgeous hands, she shows up, turns out she's amputated and doesn't have any hands (not even an attachment), do you still pay her for showing up?

Sounds like it'd set a bad precedent if one did, unless the model went waaay out of her way to help. (Eg: did some demeaning things or flew very far just to come). Otherwise, you'll set up an ad to get a model, get 100 people scrambling to come in, and not a single one meets the requirement but still demand to get paid.

 

[WorkInProgress]

One thing I'll admit I was wrong about. When I said "he is now in possession of $50 which does not belong to him," I did not have the facts straight.

I should have said, "she is now in possession of $50 which does not belong to her."

Apologies for the error.

 

[jlasocal]

So...

...what is a fair amount to pay a model? And what are good formats for advertising?

 

[bernard]

i think there is no need to pay to her because it is a tickling video of genuinely ticklish models. and she claimed that she is ticklish from her feet before. i wanna see a girls with ticklish feets like others. or you can pay her little, and you can explain that model is not ticklish from her feet on video. you can use it only for a feet fetish video

 

[Iggy pop]

If a contract is based on condition, then you do not have contract until the condition is met. Here, the poster advertised for "genuine ticklish" models. From what I can gather, the model agreed that she was ticklish and was aware that she was going to appear in tickle video. The model's ticklishness was essential to the contract. So, it appears that there was a condition that in order for the model to get paid she had to be genuinely ticklish. This condition was not met. Therfore, there was no contact, and the poster does not owe her any money.