Spin off of the "WHO do you wanna see tickled in a TC video?" thread.

[Frink]

TC Videos has one....

"Dr. Baynes" features a more rubenesque tickling model. It's one of their older vids but it's still available in streaming video format. We should ask TC Videos how well it does in relation to their other vids.

I have most of their vids--this one included. Quite honestly, though, this one is not high on my list, but it's just because she doesn't seem especially ticklish to me and her reactions aren't really to my liking. I could say the same about numerous vids I own though.

I buy my tickling vids based on ticklishness and ticklee's reactions FIRST; looks have a lower priority for me (although it's still a factor, as it probably is for most consumers). Still, I understand a few things about how a good business works. It's products are always market-driven. If there's PROVEABLE demand for such models, the evidence will be in sales of those specific videos. I suspect, however, that many of the proponents of seeing these types of models haven't even purchased the few vids that are out there now. That sends a message. There's the proof (or lack thereof). If folks want to send a different message to the vid companies, who after all have to PAY and take time to make the videos, they can't just do it with lip service. They have to do it with their wallets.

 

[hawkikim]

Re: TC Videos has one....

[BI If folks want to send a different message to the vid companies, who after all have to PAY and take time to make the videos, they can't just do it with lip service. They have to do it with their wallets. [/B]

A truism, Frink. But my point still stands. How much promotion of that video did you see? Was it just a listing on the webpage? Or was it like some videos, promoted everywhere someone might see it?

I know those videos are out there, but are they promoted with the same fervor as the ones with models that more fit the current media standard of acceptable looks? Or are they treated like the red-headed stepchild at a family reunion... It's acknowledged that they exist, but let's not make a big deal out of it? If people don't know those videos are out there, how can they possibly spend their money to purchase them?

Again, just my half-cent's worth, and realizing that marketing is pretty much EVERYTHING.


Kimmie

 

[tk86]

Hawkikim, Mimi, JoBelle, you all rule!! I appreciate your posts here. Indeed, why DOES it have to be that same skinny body (all too often augmented with fake boobs) over and over and over again? And that same skinny 18-29 age group most of the time, too?

I have to say that I am so turned off by this small representation of the female gender, a tiny demographic that isn't right for me, that I haven't bought a video in ages! I have downloaded a clip here and there from Tickleparty, but that's been about it. And the best clips from Tickleparty I've seen lately? One with Julia Parton (pushing 40 and insanely ticklish) and Tory Sinclair (ditto). So I AM backin' it up with my wallet, folks.

 

[njjen3953]

I can also beg the question...IF videos were created with "alternative" models, whatever that would entail, might that not bring out of the woodwork (if you will) a whole new demographic of people who have not yet found THEIR fantasy videos? Or THEIR escape from their humdrum reality? Might there not be a whole NEW market for videos, leading to more money for the video company? In business, isn't the bottom line really what it's all about? AND, if the videos with (what was the term used? I can't remember, but it wasn't very flattering to the female persuasion) haven't sold...maybe the marketing of said videos just needs a new angle and target.

[Jo, I'd LOVE to see you get tickled by Sean Connery! Think we can talk him into that one?]

Kimmie

Good point Kimmie. I also think that if videos like this were made, it just might bring more female lees out of lurker mode.
In another recent thread here, the ever popular question was raised. "Why are there so few women into tickling?"

There are plenty of women out there and silently in here that want to break the silence and make fantasy a reality. But, there is that burning fear that "No male will want to tickle me because I don't look like the models in the videos".

Jen

 

[SuperTickler]

...And the best clips from Tickleparty I've seen lately? One with Julia Parton (pushing 40 and insanely ticklish) and Tory Sinclair (ditto)...

Well, gee, Julia Parton and Tori Sinclair! THERE are a couple of bow-wows! My gosh, those are two of the most beautiful women I've ever seen! How can you possibly use them to make your point? Julia is a bit curvy but she sure isn't overweight!

BTW, I just received and watched the new FM release, "Mistreat Their Feet," (FM-191) tonight. If you ever wished a Playboy Lingerie video would break out in a few tickle fights, this vid's for you! Ticklishness varies, however Shay and Roxanne are there, and there are some new ticklish beauties as well. And it convinced me further that the video companies know what they're doing when they cast their models. 😎

 

[SuperTickler]

...[Jo, I'd LOVE to see you get tickled by Sean Connery! Think we can talk him into that one?]...

Well, in keeping with the idea of what some of the people are saying in this thread, shouldn't you prefer George Wendt (Norm from CHEERS) to one of the handsomest movie stars who've ever lived? I mean, isn't beauty in the eye of the beholder? 😎

 

[njjen3953]

Well, gee, Julia Parton and Tori Sinclair! THERE are a couple of bow-wows! My gosh, those are two of the most beautiful women I've ever seen! How can you possibly use them to make your point? Julia is a bit curvy but she sure isn't overweight!

I think that tk86's point was that these models are not in the 18-29 age group. He did say that, but either you missed it or just failed to correctly quote him to prove YOUR point.

Jen

 

[hawkikim]

Well, in keeping with the idea of what some of the people are saying in this thread, shouldn't you prefer George Wendt (Norm from CHEERS) to one of the handsomest movie stars who've ever lived? I mean, isn't beauty in the eye of the beholder? 😎

No, SuperTickler, I don't think that's the point at all. I don't believe that anyone on this thread is advocating that anyone PREFER one type over another. I believe the point to be that no type is BETTER or WORSE than another. Beauty IS in the eye of the beholder, indeed.

Kimmie, who believes in the beauty of ALL persons, until they prove otherwise to me

 

[njjen3953]

Well, in keeping with the idea of what some of the people are saying in this thread, shouldn't you prefer George Wendt (Norm from CHEERS) to one of the handsomest movie stars who've ever lived? I mean, isn't beauty in the eye of the beholder? 😎

I don't necessarily want either. Just as ticklishness is important, so is the ability to effectively tickle.
I will admit that I have watched other types of adult videos that did nothing for me due to the male's appearance, but that was because there was sexual activity involved. Specifically oral sex.
I am not saying that the object of my sexual desires has to be a pinup male model or movie star either. I just found these men totally unappealing.

When I watch a tickling video I want to see 2 things. An extremely ticklish lee and a skilled ler.

Jen

 

[tk86]

"how can you use them to make your point.."

First of all, thank you Jen. You get the idea here.

Super Tickler: In an earlier post in this thread I mentioned, "my idea of beauty--which includes all races and sizes of women at least somewhat near my age." So yes, that DOES include the two models cited.

It also includes the lovely BBWomen I see on the street every day.

And the ones who maybe aren't BBW, who just so happen to be somewhere between Calista Flockhart size and BBW.

It includes all women who for some reason just "have it," who are appealing and sexy, who exude that undefinable something, that quality which is completely subjective, completely different for every human...

Oh...and I've actually met George Wendt. He's a great guy and I can see why some women would like him 🙂.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

off-shoot question

i kinda brought up this same topic the other day. mine was questioning why the models were all so young? to answer this question, i say you bet! i'd buy a video with a less than model quality ticklee. i already have, a lot of them. some one said that the t.c. models are not walking around the street in everyones town. i think you should come live here then! we have loads of BETTER looking women here! but truth be told, when i think of "model" type ticklees i think FM videos. i don't associate t.c, or p.v. girls as "model quality". nice pretty little girls, yes, but drop dead gorgous, no.
steve

 

[WallStreet]

Mimi-- For someone who says they are self confident you seem to be pretty insecure. I never said you were a couch potato. The point of this thread is "Would you buy a video with an unattractive model". It has turned into a thread where larger sized women are defending themselves.
NJJen-- For you to insinuate that I am the poster child for bulemia certainly leaves the boundaries of what this thread is about. You were the one who started this thread in the first place. Did you expect everyone to agree with you. Perhaps you only started this thread to feel more secure about yourself. Neither you or Mimi have taken the time to understand my point that Novelty sells videos. If you have decided to make this thread an attack against those who prefer slim women than you have done exactly that.
I at no point in time told women to starve themselves. This thread is not about preferences of small or large, it is about what we would BUY in a video. You shouldn't dish it out unless you can take it.

 

[moriaritytk]

Ask, And Ye Shall Recieve

The free market is a wonderful place to be. It allows for people who produce videos using ingedients that are likely to be palatable to the widest number of people--like McDonalds--in the hope of making more money by aiming at a bigger pool of potential customers. That strategy is unsatisfying to many, leaving a multitude of niches open to be mined by entrepreneurs who can zero in on satisfying a smaller market.

Tickling commerce with the "masses" remains in its infancy. The total pool of potential customers is only now being defined and the more aggressive producers are trying to corner that market as it forms. The interesting thing about tickling commerce is that many of the smaller niche segments were actually identified long ago. First movers in those areas didn't wait to have the whole market identified before breaking out a segment.

We have an interesting bottom-up scenario where the people marketing to the big group are trying to find the common elements from among the established segments that will trigger buying across those segments. Ana and Andre didn't wait around to notice that the big marketers were going to focus on white models and leave the minority market underserved. They just grabbed the "ticklers of color" market and went to the bank with it. Good for them. Somebody could probably get an advanced degree by studying how this category works and how it will all play out. It's fascinating, if you're into that kind of thing.

Anyway, end of marketing lecture. I actually do have an on-topic point. There already IS at least one vendor who has been selling tickling videos featuring larger models for quite some time. Here is a link to the latest video from Queen Andrena

http://www.queenadrena.com/4gtickle.htm

She's been around for a while and her site has a fair number of tickling videos in her catalog. I'm assuming that she doesn't enjoy flushing money down the toilet (although somebody probably has that fetish, too, and you could probably make a living with videos of naked women--of all sizes--doing just that) so there must be people buying her videos.

So, look around more. There are lots of things out there and more showing up all the time. The fast food restaurants have staked out the prime real estate on the commercial strips, but the curious can also find the tiny Korean place that serves stir-fired cocker spaniel. (And, God help us, there's probably somebody in there with a video camera filming naked women--of all sizes--eating it for pet-eating fetish market).

 

[Ayla ny]

first I want to say how much I respect and admire so many of the women who post here. having ‘a woman’s touch’ to the forum has certainly made me feel more comfortable and I identify with so many of the thoughts and feelings posted.

but...

everyone seems to be getting a little defensive here.

videos are, by definition, a visual medium... and men are visual creatures. there is nothing wrong with that. it’s their nature. when they buy a video, they are not getting (or really looking to get) a whole person. only what they see (and hear lol) so it only makes sense for them to opt for something/someone visually appealing.

and in commerce... majority ALWAYS rules.

a real, whole woman is so much more than could ever be captured on video and we should never allow these one dimensional depictions make us feel insecure. easier said than done, I know... but true. we are all blessed with something that makes us beautiful. I know this by reading what the women of this forum have to say as much as I do by the pictures

so let’s not try to make the men feel badly for their nature and our own insecurities. and... let’s not assume that because a woman is beautiful that she is not bright and kind. let’s just like who we are and enjoy the fact that we have a certain kinship here. with both the men and the women.

if you are less than perfect, and want to make a video... by all means, make it. even if only for yourself and friends. don’t let the laws of commerce and the rule of the majority dictate what you do. do what makes you happy.

 

[laughter_n_love]

To answer the original question, I would not buy a video that has less the model type ticklees in it. If I'm going to invest in a tickling video, I want everything that I want. Model ticklees, good bondage, intense tickling, sincere ticklish reactions (ie, no faking), skilled ticklers, intricate scenery, good picture and sound quality, etc. It's all important to me.

Laughter

 

[TMF Jeff]

Hi everyone,

I agree that it's unfortunate you don't see more full-figured, ordinary women in videos. But.

As a producer I can say that I hire models who seem most likely to sell the most videos. None of them ever sell so well that it's a given that I'll even make my money back, though. The result is that there just is not a good motive for me to play with the formula. The Risk of spending money to make a video and getting low sales doesn't measure up to the possible Reward.

However, with that said, if any of you want to go ahead and make a video that appeals to your tastes, MTP will back it by marketing and selling it on a profit-sharing basis.

 

[JoBelle]

Originally posted by SuperTickler Well, in keeping with the idea of what some of the people are saying in this thread, shouldn't you prefer George Wendt (Norm from CHEERS) to one of the handsomest movie stars who've ever lived? I mean, isn't beauty in the eye of the beholder? 😎

Devils advocate a phrase you've heard before?

WOW, talk about missing the point! 😉 Or seeing it completely but ignoring it! TICKLING videos.

This was more to point out that LERS were not the only ones with a take on this, yet it is their opinion that seemed to dictate what both sides see. How WASPy. 😛 The majority are labled "TICKLING" videos, but they seem to fall in line with all the other "get your rocks off" material. Generally speaking, it has less to do with tickling than seeing a naked or nearly naked woman. Argue that when so many of the Lees in the videos are OBVIOUSLY faking it. We've all seen it. Perhaps it should just be admitted that tickling videos are not just tickling.That they are the cross between a tickling fetish video and more traditional porn? We all KNOW it. Why pretend otherwise? I'm not saying it's BAD or WRONG....I'm simply saying it's reality.

MORE IMPORTANTLY

For every tickler who has bought a video, there is a ticklee. The Lees out there are *mostly* women...I think it would a smart choice to cater toward making them happy as well. There is never ANY emphasis on the ticklers! As a 'Lee, I don't watch the women getting attacked, I watch the tickler. His hands. His moves. How much humor he incorporates into the scene. And on THAT note, HELL YEAH! I bet Wendt would be freakin' HILRAIOUS as a Ler...lol As well as Drew Carey, and a number of other men who aren't GQ guys.

To sum up..lol

-Tickling is tickling now matter what you look like. Men or women.

-If you're going to just make fantasy material into "tickling" videos, do it for BOTH the ticklers and the ticklees.

-If you're out to sell as much as possible, then you should take into
consideration that for EVERY body type, there is an audience, albeit small, but present. It might not be worth investing the money to produce the item, but to totally ignore that group of pentential buyers is to alienate them. That makes them not want to buy ANY thing. Basic marketing.

And to reiterate something Jen said. If you're curious about why there are so few women willing to come out of the tickle closet compared to the number of men, maybe this whole thread explains it for you. NO one wants to be set up for rejection. And by statements made here, if you're not a model type of gal....well, no one wants ya. Italso says....you can be ANYTHING at all as a ler and that's fine. A NICE BIG DOUBLE STANDARD!

Jo....fuming

 

[unitkl]

may i graciously say that this whole thread sounds to much like a few BBW venting their anger against society. im sorry but ask yourself, what is "society?" its not a machine somewhere. it is the far majority of human beings on earth. so to say that we should NOT let society tell us what is beautiful is to go against the overwhelming odds of what most people think is beautiful. i mean come on. look at the member pictures of the nice ladies in here venting their anger. in all honesty what would you think if they were on the cover of SI swimsuit edition, or Cosmo?

not trying to be mean here at all. just debating like the rest of you.

 

[Dave2112]

I don't buy a lot of video to begin with. I find ways to incorporate plenty of tickling into my real life, and a vid has to be pretty special for me to fork over bucks for it.

That being said, the "specialness" I was reffering to was the interaction between the 'ler and 'lee, the apparatus and ties used, the severity of the tickling and how much the vid touches upon my love of D/S and Bondage. The attractiveness of the model comes somewhere after that. Now, given that all things were equal between two vids, and the sole remaining factor was the model's physical apprearance...I'd be lying if I said I'd go out of my way to choose the unattractive one.

However, let me clear something up. There aren't many women I find "unattractive." Women are beautiful creatures in their own right, and for many other reasons than physical apprearance. The mean ones are ugly. The selfish ones are ugly. The "superior" ones are ugly. Not the ones who can't squeeze into a Size 1.

I appreciate awesome beauty as much (if not more) than any guy. I just don't place it on a pedestal at the top of the list. On the other hand, I don't find anything wrong with those who do go for beauty first, I was just stating my own personal view.😎

 

[JoBelle]

UNITKL,
May I graciously say that you've seemed to ignore every other comment made and focused solely on that which you can use to demean someone. Were you trying to make any point besides that which came across so vividly?

Personally, my "anger" is stemming from the fact that Lees are treated as a object and Lers as talent..😉 I entered this conversation on the basis of videos catering to the Lees sense of fantasy wanting equal footing, and that said fantasy comes in MANY sizes and shades.

As far as your comment UNITKL,
"i mean come on. look at the member pictures of the nice ladies in here venting their anger. in all honesty what would you think if they were on the cover of SI swimsuit edition, or Cosmo?"

WOW! You're right, that wasn't judgemental or mean spirited, was it?
🙄
Jo

 

[Frink]

so many good posts here...

Ayla, MTP Jeff, moriaritytk..... great posts! You all made some excellent points.

Originally posted by JoBelle
It might not be worth investing the money to produce the item, but to totally ignore that group of pentential buyers is to alienate them. That makes them not want to buy ANY thing. Basic marketing.

Thats an interesting approach:
....spend more money (or whatever it takes to make the vid)
....target the niche market (atypical models), within the niche parket (tickling), within the niche market (fetishes), within the niche (albeit big) market (porn)
...then operate at a LOSS for a time
...then HOPE that encourages more people (within this already limited group) to buy more "sometime in the future."

Aside: Even the site mentioned by moriaritytk caters not just to tickling, but to the "giantess" fetish. (Which suggests they are targeting THAT community/fetish as a whole.)

All I can say is, as someone who plans to be an entrepreneur, and who has approached VCs (venture capitalists) for funding for "good ideas" and been SHOT down, I would never dream of approaching them with a business plan like that. Again, not without a PROVEABLE market to guarantee return on my investment...which by your own admission probably doesn't exist.

Granted, having "alternative" models would not be an entire business suggestion, but competition is still somewhat fierce within the tickling market. Dropping revenues by 30-50% or so in a month given already slim margins is probably not acceptable to a business either. Not sure here, I'm just guessing.

Hawkikim....

In all fairness, it's really not reasonable to say that TC Videos and PV (and others, e.g., ANA) do/did not market their vids featuring BBWs in them as much as the others. At the very LEAST, they did the same marketing as their other vids...if not more. Why? Because they only put out ~1-2 vids every 1-2 months! As MTP_Jeff has said before (in another thread): for tickling video companies every video sale counts. And quite honestly, I heard of all of these vids--and bought some of them--based on the tickling alone. Frankly I'm amazed that "Dr. Baynes" has been on TC Videos' site as long as it has and it seems few of the complainants here have seen it. Again, I say, if you want to see more/see them more often, vid sales of those that are ALREADY out there had better start to reach parity with the others.

That brings me to another point. The most vehement calls for these types of models (on this thread) are coming from women. And, well, let's just be honest here: Men buy most of the videos! Of course you'll say that's because they're marketed to men. But really that's just a cop out. (Just check the sales of the f>m vids...or the m>m vids too....the sales there are still probably relatively low...and more of those are probably bought by men too.) Besides, more men will pay for sex, too! LOL Would you say that's because sex is marketed to men? Jeez, that's another topic altogether for another time and another thread.
(Frink ducks and covers expecting the 'ol "s" word again: society 🙄 )

Basically, I think Ayla (and a few others) had it right. The only reason this is getting emotional for some is that they don't see themselves and/or their likes/disklikes getting the same attention as more mainstream ideals. Heck, I surely don't fit any ideal. Most of you ladies now feeling unappreciated would pass me over in a hot second! Why? b/c I don't fit the ideal! LOL

So in the end, water's wet, the sky's blue, and looks matter...to EVERYONE...so why not businesses?

 

[TickledToDeath]

I certainly would. I have stated that in posts and in person to those who know me....the ONLY important thing involved is that the victim or LEE is genuinly ticklish!
I would definatly rather see a "less than model looking" lee who is NOT acting and is definatly genuinly ticklish as opposed to a drop dead gorgeous model, FAKING it!


TTD

 

[UnclStevel]

I believe that the jury has already made the decision, a long time ago. People vote with their $. If you look at the most financially successful tickling producers online, I think it's safe to say that the demand is clearly there for the "barbie" look.

There is something to say for marketing, but in the end, people have to demand the product for your business to thrive. You shouldn't look at what people say, you should look at what they whip out their credit cards for in order to answer this question honestly.

Now, if I could just ask all of the producers to post their Schedule C's here that would answer this once and for all. Hahahhaa 😉

Steve

 

[TickledToDeath]

Part of the problem is that some companies ARE trying to "corner" the market by showing the most beautiful models they can find regardless of whether or not they are ticklish so long as they can act the part and are appealing to the EYE.

Other companies gear toward to BBW and those who LIKE them.
While others go for the ethnic road.
Bottom line is they are going VISUAL and to whatever makes the $$$.

What is mostly overlooked, except for the few producers out there who actually care that the lees are ticklish and focus on that and that alone, is that what is STILL most important is this;
the lees are really ticklish and really ARE ticklish.


TTD

 

[JoBelle]

Frink you make good points.

I'm not arguing with your logic. I am a business owner. I certainly wouldn't adopt an opinion of the minority as a plan to pay my bills. Along with that though, I do have to understand that when I don't cater to the full spectrum, or outright turn down a segment, I will be forfeiting future revenue with the holders of that free cash. It's part of the game. I will also have to deal with individuals who will never view me as a full competitor as I am unable to afford the time or money to branch out into smaller venues for lack of funds. THAT was the point in making that comment. I would never suggest a business in a tight market cater to every whim, it's a bad choice. Had I access to the bankroll of say...Coca Cola..lol..that would be different. 😉 Along these same lines..no company, whether they sell paintings, clothes, cars, any item that can be purchased or a service for that matter. *For example, selling tickling in a dungeon.*...NONE of these things happens until there is a demand for them. It all starts small.

I think the reasons that threads like this become so heated is that they take a turn....from a general inquiry to insults on both sides. Everyone wants to be appreciated for who they are. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way not to give a flying f*uck what others think, but still hold your preferences as well. I think folks forget there are actual people typing these words..lol

Looks matter, you're right, but tastes vary too.
Jo