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Stop Calling Grown Women "Girls"

Yeah PC Rules and PC topics...Free speech has become PC nonsense...thanks for clarifying ...have been around this circle with Jeff and Wolf before...Amy is a fictional character on Big Bang...Sorry fictional character Amy
 
usgrant said:
Yeah PC Rules and PC topics...Free speech has become PC nonsense...thanks for clarifying ...have been around this circle with Jeff and Wolf before...Amy is a fictional character on Big Bang...Sorry fictional character Amy
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If you don't like it, why'd you read and watch? The title is pretty clear.
 
As someone who deals with models all the time, I can tell you that I refer to women working for me as "my models" or when I'm talking to someone who is asking for a custom video. I'm sure that is equally condescending for some. I don't think I've called them "my girls," but not for PC reasons. Just never have. I will say that many female producers I've worked with call their models "my girls" for the same reason the male ones do.
 
laughinggaszone said:
As someone who deals with models all the time, I can tell you that I refer to women working for me as "my models" or when I'm talking to someone who is asking for a custom video. I'm sure that is equally condescending for some. I don't think I've called them "my girls," but not for PC reasons. Just never have. I will say that many female producers I've worked with call their models "my girls" for the same reason the male ones do.
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They should be corrected 🙂
 
I love the edgelording going on in here by some of you, nust like I love the inference that I am solely supporting Chicago because of sexual motivations. To be frank, this isn't even a discussion on political correctness; it only takes on this light thanks to people who feel the need to defend themselves, their hierarchical structures, or want to make a statement on implied meaning of word con otations just because.

People are acting like this is apparently moving mountains. You can agree or disagree...but come on.
 
I'm quite happy to be called a girl, I've never associated a negative connotation with it. I call myself a girl - country girl, city girl, etc - all the time.

My quote for this would be "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." And for me that includes the right of that man at the bar to call me or any other woman a girl. And my view on this would be unchanged if girl was replaced with a word that I do find objectionable, such as slut, or *****. I may not like it, but I think that freedom of speech comes before my feelings.
 
i hate all red tape and pc but agree with what chicago is saying.

But these things can quickly develop into a minefield, it all hinges on how and where the term is used and by who, i don't think people go out of their way to offend they just don't think,having said that i can remember my mother saying "be back later i'am going off with the girls" which was a knitting club meeting and the youngest woman was about 45 but then this is in the uk so who knows lol
 
_virginie_ said:
I'm quite happy to be called a girl, I've never associated a negative connotation with it. I call myself a girl - country girl, city girl, etc - all the time.

My quote for this would be "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." And for me that includes the right of that man at the bar to call me or any other woman a girl. And my view on this would be unchanged if girl was replaced with a word that I do find objectionable, such as slut, or *****. I may not like it, but I think that freedom of speech comes before my feelings.
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Freedom of Speech means freedom from interference from the law, not freedom from consequences.
Being a dickhead is not protected under the Constitution.
Being prosecuted just for being a dickhead is another matter entirely.
 
A woman is an adult female.
A girl is a female child or adolescent.
So yes it is understandably offensive to call a woman a girl.
Unfortunately plenty of men and women that are guilty of call women girls.
It doesn't mean is acceptable for a man to refer to a woman as a girl just because other women also do.
But it does make less obvious that is offensive and not necessarily intended to be offensive.
 
What about biatch?
Not calling you biatch just asking. Honestly.

I heard a boy, about 10, call the woman he was with biatch.
I think it was his mom and she just shook her head and chuckled.

I also hear women call each other biatch quite often.
Some of them don't even say biatch they just say what's up bitches.

Is it acceptable for women to call other women names that would be offensive if another man said them?
Maybe like some people calling people of their same ethnic background names that are absolutely offensive if people of different backgrounds were to use them?

I guess offensive is offensive and it is best to make an effort not to be offensive to people.

If you know what you are saying is offensive.
 
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I don't know that I find it offensive on the forums or elsewhere to see women called girls... But I think a lot of the misogyny on the forums can be pretty offensive. I also feel like chicago wants to have a larger dialogue about that issue, but there isn't a good way to encompass all of it or explain it. I have been a tmf member a long time, have talked to lots of people who seem like good people here, and also lots of guys who seem like creeps. Chicago does have a solid point about what the banner ads, blasé attitudes toward non-con feet photos or videos, and the fact that pics of the week are never anything else but */f, usually topless */f, and what that says about what women are to the guys here. (A means to an end of getting off). The creepiness towards models and their personal lives outside their films is especially disgusting from some of the men here. I think this seems like part of a larger conversation that should be had, but I don't know if or how it could change anything, and if men here really care if women participate in these forums in any capacity other than being wank fodder.
 
_virginie_ said:
I'm quite happy to be called a girl, I've never associated a negative connotation with it. I call myself a girl - country girl, city girl, etc - all the time.

My quote for this would be "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." And for me that includes the right of that man at the bar to call me or any other woman a girl. And my view on this would be unchanged if girl was replaced with a word that I do find objectionable, such as slut, or *****. I may not like it, but I think that freedom of speech comes before my feelings.
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Well said. Yours and Tenebrae's have been the only rational responses I've read. Many are approaching it from an emotion driven standpoint.
 
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_virginie_ said:
I'm quite happy to be called a girl, I've never associated a negative connotation with it. I call myself a girl - country girl, city girl, etc - all the time.

My quote for this would be "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." And for me that includes the right of that man at the bar to call me or any other woman a girl. And my view on this would be unchanged if girl was replaced with a word that I do find objectionable, such as slut, or *****. I may not like it, but I think that freedom of speech comes before my feelings.
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Let me say, first of all, that I like your quote, and I do try to be the kind of person who appreciates a person's right to say things I disagree with. Let me see if I can throw a little extra clarification into the mix, though. And although I used your post, let me also be very clear that it's not just you I'm addressing with what follows, either. I'm not trying to pick on any one person. Your post just happened to be thoughtful enough I could springboard a response off of it.

First... freedom to express your opinions. Sure. Disagree with me. That's what freedom is. I will never try and contribute to the silencing of your voice, with my only hard line being people who actively advocate for the harming, silencing and extermination of other groups of people. (Anybody in the US right now should know what sorts of people I mean, without me finding a tiki torch.) So yes. You do have the right to express your opinion.

The thing is, what Chicago brought to light is less about expressing an opinion and more trying to cause others to be mindful of what they call other people... which itself has a few distinctions. First, you say you regularly call yourself "girl", which is fine. But that does slant your viewpoint, since you're essentially okay with other people calling you -what you call yourself-. In your case, people are already doing for you what Chicago prefers they do for her. There is going to be no single hard, fast rule that applies to everybody, but in all honesty, I have heard the exact same argument from many other women as well, and I fail to see what the harm would be in giving some thought to possibly adopting a new social norm. Nobody is necessarily saying you can't refer to yourself as "girl" or that others can't do the same for you.

The second part has to do with where the freedom to "say what you want, even if it's rude" intersects with frequency. To use this example (though there are many many others that apply just as well) it is not too difficult to be the bigger person when just one person gets rude (the guy at the bar, for instance) and calls you a "slut". But imagine for a moment how it would feel to have people you hang out with, people you work with in a professional setting, people you go to school with, people you pay for services, call you "slut" over and over and over again, simply because they see nothing wrong with it... even if it bothers you. That's the difference here. A term like "girl" has become normalized, and all of the associations that go with it subconsciously. So after the 100th time of hearing it, it can grate on a person. And if it was JUST Chicago, I'd say to deal with it on a personal basis... but it's really not. I have heard this all before.

I do it, too. I'm not perfect. But if somebody corrects me, the last thing I feel compelled to do is argue with them.
 
People are offended by different things, I don't think I need to change the entirety of my language because I might offend someone (unless you're omniscient you'll never know at all times what you should or shouldn't say around who), but I will respect if someone does want me to use different language around them and asks me to do so.

Like for example; if someone hated being called a "girlfriend" and preferred to be called "womanfriend", it'd be a little weird at first, but I'd do it for them; doesn't really take much effort to do so.
 
silverstar said:
Well said. Yours and Tenebrae's have been the only rational responses I've read. Many are approaching it from an emotion driven standpoint.
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Really... The one where Tenebrae said "Good Girl" directly after what chicago posted? Cause I thought that was one of the more immature/nasty things I have seen from him here, usually someone I find respectable. :/ ...
 
I am guilty of calling women girls, and men boys as well, and do it without really thinking about it; that doesn't mean I don't find it pretty disturbing the way some of the guys here react to being asked to look at the way women are typically being treated here.
 
I've certainly been guilty of this before. I think one of the tougher aspects is the commonality of it. Language patterns that you've naturally acquired are difficult to change without putting in some practice where you haven't needed to in years. But, I don't think it's a bad thing to take an inventory of your personal habits and learned behaviors to see if they need adjusting. I also don't think it's a bad thing to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to something they care deeply about.
I don't have to understand it, to respect it. If you respect the person making the request it shouldn't be an issue for you.
Additionally, language is a fluid system. It changes all the time, from spelling and grammar to acceptable use. It evolves though it is not a physical construct. We're never going to be able to freeze language in a state and declare that no more changes can be made after X date. It's probably always been contentious when groups push for changes in the language about them, again one need only look at the US to see the detrimental effects of trying to stop time or turn back the clock.
I think Chicago's made a good case to support her viewpoint and I don't really understand how this is a 'slippery slope' argument.
My two cents, before inflation.
HappyD
 
siamese dream said:
I don't know that I find it offensive on the forums or elsewhere to see women called girls... But I think a lot of the misogyny on the forums can be pretty offensive. I also feel like chicago wants to have a larger dialogue about that issue, but there isn't a good way to encompass all of it or explain it. I have been a tmf member a long time, have talked to lots of people who seem like good people here, and also lots of guys who seem like creeps. Chicago does have a solid point about what the banner ads, blasé attitudes toward non-con feet photos or videos, and the fact that pics of the week are never anything else but */f, usually topless */f, and what that says about what women are to the guys here. (A means to an end of getting off). The creepiness towards models and their personal lives outside their films is especially disgusting from some of the men here. I think this seems like part of a larger conversation that should be had, but I don't know if or how it could change anything, and if men here really care if women participate in these forums in any capacity other than being wank fodder.
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This. I'd love to have a deep dialogue about the way this website is set up primarily for men, that there are no active female moderators, that the site allows, even subtly encourages, creep shots, not to mention the way female members are treated here, but my complaints here about said behavior haven't been met with positive responses from the admin, unfortunately.
 
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