Stop Calling Grown Women "Girls"

[turtleboy]

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So, she should have asked more nicely, or not in a public manner?

It could easily have been phrased as a specific request. You and some others are conflating chigago's instruction (apparently aimed at men) to stop referring to all adult women as girls, with a specific request for people on this forum to stop referring to her as a girl. They are not the same thing. It comes across as a deliberate attempt to get people arguing over the topic, which is exactly what it acheived.

.Semantics.

Yes. But you're the one adding your own meaning to the word, and then using it to misrepresent my original point.

Semantics are also important 😉

 

[Wolf]

It could easily have been phrased as a specific request. You and some others are conflating chigago's instruction (apparently aimed at men) to stop referring to all adult women as girls, with a specific request for people on this forum to stop referring to her as a girl. They are not the same thing. It comes across as a deliberate attempt to get people arguing over the topic, which is exactly what it acheived.

What exactly offends you about the way the request was made?

 

[Tenebrae]

I would like to try to simplify it for both of you, because it looks to me like you are dancing around the same idea:

Chicago doesn't like to be called a girl? Strange, but okay, fair enough.

What I think is really dubious is that she (along with Ms Bialik apparently) are of the opinion that this standard applies to ALL women, regardless of what THEY think. I, for one, disagree. It's absurd, and if you look at it in detail, it even becomes kind of silly (you really wanna call your girlfriend your "woman friend"? etc...).

 

[Wolf]

You gotta wonder how frustrating it is to try and make a simple request when the manner in which the request is made is subject to so much scrutiny and hand-wringing.

 

[turtleboy]

What exactly offends you about the way the request was made?

You have a unique way of trying to twist the things that people say.

Firstly, I didn't say I was offended by it, but I do believe it was made a deliberately antagonistic way - i.e. to make male respondents feel they are being criticised for using an offensive term, and told to stop using it. Telling people to do this universally (as I and others have pointed out), is clearly going to be viewed negatively by many people since both men and women use the term freely and most women don't seem to feel it is insulting at all.

Secondly, it wasn't framed as a request. I don't believe that you're not capable of making this distinction.

 

[Wolf]

You have a unique way of trying to twist the things that people say.

Firstly, I didn't say I was offended by it, but I do believe it was made a deliberately antagonistic way - i.e. to make male respondents feel they are being criticised for using an offensive term, and told to stop using it. Telling people to do this universally (as I and others have pointed out), is clearly going to be viewed negatively by many people since both men and women use the term freely and most women don't seem to feel it is insulting at all.

Secondly, it wasn't framed as a request. I don't believe that you're not capable of making this distinction.

It was a request. Your characterization of how unfair it is to simply make the request is your choice, and suits your own purposes.
You can stop doing it, or not.
But Jesus, Christ, Stop fucking crying about the fact the request was even made.

 

[turtleboy]

It was a request. Your characterization of how unfair it is to simply make the request is your choice, and suits your own purposes.
You can stop doing it, or not.
But Jesus, Christ, Stop fucking crying about the fact the request was even made.

You're the one choosing to fixate on that specific point, as a distraction from the wider argument - which has to do with telling people how to behave and what to say to others.

Chicago can tell people to do or say whatever she wants to and people will agree or disagree as they have done here - I think it's unrealistic to expect people to agree to her point (and that it was intended to stir people up), but I didn't say anything about it being unfair. That's just your unique way of spinning things.

 

[Wolf]

You're the one choosing to fixate on that specific point, as a distraction from the wider argument - which has to do with telling people how to behave and what to say to others.

Chicago can tell people to do or say whatever she wants to and people will agree or disagree as they have done here - I think it's unrealistic to expect people to agree to her point (and that it was intended to stir people up), but I didn't say anything about it being unfair. That's just your unique way of spinning things.

Actually, all the OP did was post a video.
If the title is what offends you...

 

[_virginie_]

In the OED one of the definitions of girl is 'A woman of any age'. Seeing as semantics were mentioned....

 

[smokinj]

Who? I'm 31 and I'm pretty sure Mayim Bialik is in her 40s.

You, dear. It’s sarcasm.

 

[smokinj]

You gotta wonder how frustrating it is to try and make a simple request when the manner in which the request is made is subject to so much scrutiny and hand-wringing.

Maybe because the ‘request’ is ridiculous. I will continue to call women ‘girls’ whenever I see fit. I don’t see a problem with it.

 

[chicago]

You, dear. It’s sarcasm.

Nah, sorry. I'm grown.

Also, this wasn't intended to stir anything up, for whatever that's worth. The reactions are fascinating though.

As far as the OED goes, there's also one definition of "girl" that is described as "a female servant." And I don't see anything in the definitions listed for OED that read "woman of any age."

View attachment 567961

 

[Wolf]

Maybe because the ‘request’ is ridiculous. I will continue to call women ‘girls’ whenever I see fit. I don’t see a problem with it.

I keep telling you guys, you don't have to honor the request.
So, why do y'all keep whining about it?

 

[Wolf]

Nah, sorry. I'm grown.

Also, this wasn't intended to stir anything up, for whatever that's worth. The reactions are fascinating though.

As far as the OED goes, there's also one definition of "girl" that is described as "a female servant." And I don't see anything in the definitions listed for OED that read "woman of any age."

View attachment 567961

You don't think someone would make something up on the TMF, do ya?

 

[meangry]

https://www.etymonline.com/word/girl#etymonline_v_6108

Etymology states that the word 'girl' has a clear age link.

As adults, if we reference our peers as boys and girls, the implication is that they have something lacking that makes them less than. This is not in the sense of informal uses used by friends toward one another, especially in the possessive of social settings; ie going out with the girls, going out with my boys, etc. Many men use the term girl to describe women as a subtle inference of dominance or ownership. It's engrated to the point of being subliminal.

Don't toss in this notion that this is implementing Newspeak; that shows a clear ignorance as to what Newspeak was, how it was used, why it was used, and most importantly, the point Orwell, a man who stood diametrically opposed to conservate ideals. Newspeak was about DELETION of words, it was about taking away the building blocks and tools to free thought by destroying the tools of language to codify, and it was implemented to stifle thoughts of rebellion against the structures of totalitarian government by creating a streamlined and simple language that removed variation and nuance. The same man who wrote about Wigin Pier is going to look at this misappropriation and would snarl because he'd agree with Chicago and Bilak. The idea of social justice being the mechanism of totalitarianism is hilarious, given the notion conservatives and their 'free-thought', which is actually a cover to have no ramifications for the sexist and racist things they think and say.

There's more edgelording and mansplaining going on here than anything. Too many people saying live in Saudi Arabi as thought it's relevant here (oc and video are not saying they are subjugated, let alone that they are drawing direct parallels with women in Saudi Arabi), complain about political correctness culture even though they themselves need to lash out, and then we have the perfect implementation of sexually arrested cheeto dust fingered fat fucks who want to call Chicago girl, or honey, or sweetie, almost like their keyboard warriorness has to come out to show intimidation. No offense, but it's pathetic. Those chuckles you're getting aren't going to make your micro penises come out of your skin folds.

 

[Need You Now]

Some of the responses on this thread really make me sad. It's 2018, and men and women should be treated as equals. But we're not there yet, and both sexes are the poorer for that.

Most women find it demeaning to be called a girl. So if a woman says that's how she feels, and you don't care enough about her feelings to respect and honor them, then what does that make you? Something lower than a bucket of slime, basically.

This is not rocket science. The golden rule says treat others the way you would want to be treated. That's not complicated or difficult to understand. Put yourself in someone else's shoes from time to time, and even idiots might learn something.

 

[smokinj]

Some of the responses on this thread really make me sad. It's 2018, and men and women should be treated as equals. But we're not there yet, and both sexes are the poorer for that.

Most women find it demeaning to be called a girl. So if a woman says that's how she feels, and you don't care enough about her feelings to respect and honor them, then what does that make you? Something lower than a bucket of slime, basically.

This is not rocket science. The golden rule says treat others the way you would want to be treated. That's not complicated or difficult to understand. Put yourself in someone else's shoes from time to time, and even idiots might learn something.

Geez how’s the air up there on your high horse? This is simply another idiotic subject for women to complain about. I could see if men were calling women ‘bitches’ or ‘*****s’, but ‘girls’? It would be laughable if it weren’t so stupid. Peace out, princess.

 

[Wolf]

Geez how’s the air up there on your high horse? This is simply another idiotic subject for women to complain about. I could see if men were calling women ‘bitches’ or ‘*****s’, but ‘girls’? It would be laughable if it weren’t so stupid. Peace out, princess.

C'mon, you're telling me a big, rough, tough extra-Alpha Maley Male isn't strong enough to just call someone what they want to be called?

Is it really something to cry about?

 

[turtleboy]

Actually, all the OP did was post a video.
If the title is what offends you...

None of it offends me - again, your choice of words here not mine.

I simply disagree with her original point, as do many others. You seem hell-bent on misrepresenting anyone who dares to express the alternative opinion - accusing everyone of crying, whining and fixating on the details (when most are simply making reasoned, logical arguments) instead of presenting any kind of solid counter-argument that actually addresses what anyone is saying.

 

[Wolf]

None of it offends me - again, your choice of words here not mine.

I simply disagree with her original point, as do many others. You seem hell-bent on misrepresenting anyone who dares to express the alternative opinion - accusing everyone of crying, whining and fixating on the details (when most are simply making reasoned, logical arguments) instead of presenting any kind of solid counter-argument that actually addresses what anyone is saying.

The counter-argument is pretty simple. It's not a huge effort to be polite, and to call people what they wish to be called, or not call them something that they don't wish to be called.
You're saying you don't wanna. Fine.
But there's no good reason to be rude except that you just don't wanna be polite.
Your choice. No one's forcing you to be decent to anyone else. But it's not for any other reason except that you don't wanna.

 

[turtleboy]

So if a woman says that's how she feels, and you don't care enough about her feelings to respect and honor them, then what does that make you? Something lower than a bucket of slime, basically.

Again, I don't think most people would really have any problem with calling the OP what she wishes to be called.

Most women find it demeaning to be called a girl.

This is the point that people disagree with. Women use the word all the time in relation to themselves and others. It's not an inherently demeaning term and unless it is being used in a patronising, condescending or otherwise insulting context, I don't see why it should suddenly be a problem. If it is, then someone probably needs to inform the rest of the female population so that they can adjust themselves accordingly.

There's more edgelording and mansplaining going on here than anything. Too many people saying live in Saudi Arabi as thought it's relevant here (oc and video are not saying they are subjugated, let alone that they are drawing direct parallels with women in Saudi Arabi), complain about political correctness culture even though they themselves need to lash out, and then we have the perfect implementation of sexually arrested cheeto dust fingered fat fucks who want to call Chicago girl, or honey, or sweetie, almost like their keyboard warriorness has to come out to show intimidation. No offense, but it's pathetic. Those chuckles you're getting aren't going to make your micro penises come out of your skin folds.

So anyone who doesn't agree with the OP is a mansplaining, macho fuck, with penis issues? Good to know

 

[turtleboy]

The counter-argument is pretty simple. It's not a huge effort to be polite, and to call people what they wish to be called, or not call them something that they don't wish to be called.

Which is what I've been saying all along. My point has nothing to do with what chigago wants people to call her.

You're saying you don't wanna. Fine.

No, I haven't said that. I've said she can be called whatever she wants to be called, and that I don't think people have a problem with that.

But there's no good reason to be rude except that you just don't wanna be polite.

When have l been rude? - unless you consider it rude to disagree with you or the OP?

Your choice. No one's forcing you to be decent to anyone else. But it's not for any other reason except that you don't wanna.

How am I not being decent? Seriously - have you read a single word I've said on the subject?

 

[Wolf]

Which is what I've been saying all along. My point has nothing to do with what chigago wants people to call her.
No, I haven't said that. I've said she can be called whatever she wants to be called, and that I don't think people have a problem with that.
When have l been rude? - unless you consider it rude to disagree with you or the OP?
How am I not being decent? Seriously - have you read a single word I've said on the subject?

Again...someone is just asking you to not call them something they do not wish to be called.
You don't wanna. And you don't have to if you don't wanna.
How else do you want to justify it?

 

[smokinj]

C'mon, you're telling me a big, rough, tough extra-Alpha Maley Male isn't strong enough to just call someone what they want to be called?

Is it really something to cry about?

I’m not crying about it, I’m just saying it’s a pathetic thing to complain about. Sorry if it’s being ‘mean’ to call women ‘girls’. So, I will continue to call them girls because I don’t see a problem with it. That simple.

 

[Wolf]

I’m not crying about it, I’m just saying it’s a pathetic thing to complain about. Sorry if it’s being ‘mean’ to call women ‘girls’. So, I will continue to call them girls because I don’t see a problem with it. That simple.

Did I say anything about being mean?
It's fine.
You don't wanna.
Seems to be pretty common around here.