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STRANDED in HELL ((/F comic, contains demonic nudity(M, F))
Ilohnoh1
3rd Level Red Feather
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Woah, I didn't expect this big a review. But thanks for writing down your thoughts. They are not being dismissed and I try to improve all the time based on things I learn and hear where possible or applicable. Of course in the course of this story there is little more I can do as there really are only three pages left. I have planned a sequel and it will be a bit different, you might also get a little more into the 'less bland characters' hopefully. But let's see.
First of all, let me start by saying that you did not offend me. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and you have put it in a straightforward yet kind enough way. Again, there's really nothing I can change for you on this current story to make it more appealing (not even including a bit more foot tickling). What I'm going to do in this reply is give you some answers, although you didn't really ask questions. They are not 'excuses' from my side to defend myself or anything like that, but reasons and decisions I made as well of the ACTUAL focus of this comic. To make this still somewhat short a reply I will be rather selective on the parts I include in my quotes, please don't take that as the other stuff being dismissed or unimportant.
I know this. In Dora's case I think this is mostly due to the fact that she is like the sample of perfect innocence. Or actually, she's far beyond that, she is more like an activist of 'good'. Even in the worst situations, she still thinks positively and is determined to "make the world a better place". And that is rather dull. Yeah. In the very same way (but in a different area) Priëlla is an activist as well, strongly anti-hurting and with the focus on getting tickling as accepted method in Hell which, yes, is rather a flawed version of Hell, but I'll come back to that subject further on. This story is really about them and about the things I described above. That is why Sarah is more on the background (you'll see her just once more, on the next page, and she still has a final part to play there) even though she is playing an important part in the story too. This story is about the heroes more than about the villains. I would have liked to show the villains more often and in more depth, because I understand it is throwing things a little out of balance this way maybe, but I will keep that in mind for further projects and I think you'll find a bit more focus on the villains in the sequel (especially since the 'heroes', just to call them that, are already pretty well known at this point).
The fact that she is different is a big part of this character, yes. It's up to the point where you can say that she herself is a little "misplaced" in Hell. She's the cast-out, the one being teased, the one not fitting in with the rest. Dora strongly believes that she is too nice to belong in Hell. And the second side to Priëlla is that she WANTS to be respected and she wants to belong. Can she? Will she? Time will tell. Only at the start of the sequel you will REALLY see what this all led to. But that's for then.
Yes. She is the more 'believable human being'. Not exceptionally good hearted, she has her flaws but isn't actually purely evil either. She made a couple of bad choices and reacted overhasty, most of the cases she would probably have regret her actions later on. She's no hero and no saint. She has her secrets and that does make her interesting. I'm sorry I didn't cover a bit more about her in this comic. And what you say about her is right, she is being a little pushed aside as side character. She's important enough in the story and its development (and explanations) to be considered a main character, yet not exactly the character the story is about. A bit a painful situation too, it's like ending 2nd place in a competition and then being buried under the cheers that are going out mostly to the actually winner.
Time to talk about Hell. No, this version is not what I think Hell is like. My drive was not to try and create a realistic version of Hell, nor what is commonly believed Hell would be like (and thus creating an overdone version of cookie-cutter-hell). My intention was to portray Hell in a very light way, to leave out as much of the expected horror and terror as possible. That's incredibly un-Hell like of course, but I wanted this story not to be too heavy and not to concentrate on pain and torture. So there's very heavy contrast between what you think Hell should be like and what you see here. Understandable. For the rest, 'Green Day' seemed in the beginning to be a sort of 'rest day', which is another example of how this Hell could feel like not Hell at all. Whether this really was a rest day or something else... I'm not going to answer.
Yes. You have seen most development in Priëlla. Dora has stuck to her guns without letting go hold of them and she's STILL determined to make happen what she thinks is the right way for things to happen. She agrees with Priëlla's mission to earn respect and prove that tickling is a worthy (or in her eyes even BETTER) form of torture, because it's a more gentle form in both their eyes. You mentioned a one-track-mind. That is what she has right now and that makes her a boring character. Yes.
I'm sorry you didn't see more of her actual personality. Maybe the first 'green sky' episode was showing most about the pure character as you could see a glimpse of her while she was 'off duty'. You should get to know her a bit better in the sequel too, hopefully I can give her the attention she deserves.
Because that is another thing. See. I have drawn comics (several) and written stories (a few). Stories are easier in the respect that you have a far better flexibility and space to really describe and 'show' characters. You can put things they are feeling, reasons why they are feeling, trains of thought and all that kind of things, which are extremely difficult if not impossible to do in a comic format. If possible to go to the level of depth that a written story provides, it means that you'll get quite a few frames depicting this - which really makes the comic drag and become too long-winded and possibly even boring. Ever watched a movie of three or four hours with too little story progress? That's what you get.
Or to put it in another example: "Sarah felt angry. Not so much because Dora turned down her proposal to become friends... she really felt an almost innate repulsion towards this 'Miss Perfect'. Yes, that was it. Dora was a little TOO perfect. Ugh. Despicable! Sarah took a deep breath, trying to bury her hatred towards this blonde little angle. If Dora felt too good to become friends with her, she would taste her wrath... but not now. Not today. For the best effect, this needed to be well timed. A gentle smile formed upon Sarah's face now, almost more of a grimace."
Now, how to put that into comic format? First of all, these are more than words alone, they are ways the character is thinking and things you cannot just depict. They have to be properly described. This small paragraph of (what is it, little over 7 lines on my screen at this time) would take a page or more alone in the comic and not even approach the same effect unless the text is typed in narrator style in the first place (which would not create a comic, but in fact more like an illustrated story).
Frame 1: Sarah looking angry, accompanied with lot of narrative text.
Frame 2: Sarah taking a deep breath, closing her eyes maybe, some text.
Frame 3: View of Sarah or Dora (or both) with more thoughts described.
Frame 4: Sarah with smile/grimace. And some narrative text.
Text takes space in addition to the pictures and especially if there's a lot of it (as narrative can be if done with feeling) so we'll be talking about probably the full page for just this scene. And this scene is such a small part of the story that you're going to see... over hundred pages of narrated or partially narrated comic?
So comics generally have less depth than a story can have. Less impact (if the written story is written well). Comics have more of a visual attraction but while that's a plus for some, it's vice versa for others. Because drawn pictures limit the mind's abilities to form your own picture.
So it's clear that when creating a comic I am very limited in how much I can tell and in what depth. While I would absolutely LOVE to go to the depth of the narrative above, it's practically almost impossible. So I have to make choices... and focus on the story and it's progress... which unfortunately gives you less opportunities for extra snippets to learn more (and specifically more details) about (other) characters. Even Dora (who is rather bland by design) would have been more interesting if I could have spent more time on getting 'up close' with her feelings and memories.
Actually, this version of hell has only one level. No, evil is not the right word. Let's rephrase that. Hell is an institution with one function and one function only: To punish people who have done wrong. Now THIS Hell (talking about the one in the comic) does not function the right way. You would expect that a devious manipulator who brought many a person down to scraps would be punished heavier than someone who stole a car once and, drunk driving, hit someone on the street with result that the person became cripple. I believe the real Hell would 'work' in levels like that. Not this one. In this version of Hell people get punished equally, reason or no reason. In fact, their job is just to punish and they don't even have the records of what a person did wrong in their lives in most cases... neither do they CARE. Does that sound wrong? Maybe it is. Maybe not. I mean, who am I to decide? We humans see things in our own way and even culture can have influence on how we think about things. Pain (overrated) is the way things are done in this Hell and there is no room for something that is 'considered more gentle'. You are right in your saying, however, that this reasoning is extremely slanted and that other forms than pain are/can be much more effective. But... in this Hell that is beyond the grasp of the pretty straightforward and 'stupid' demons. Still. And that is something Priëlla is fighting. And trying to prove... If she can break through, that can mean quite a revolution indeed. So who's the dumb one now? People learn and so do demons, assumedly. Priëlla has already proven this, in fact, by finding out what it means to have a friend. What value it has and what it feels like. It is one of the things she hadn't even considered being worth thinking about.
Ah, yes. That's actually a point of interest too. Who says that Hell is a source of evil? Sure, the saying "The Devil made me do it" suggests so. But anyway, in this comic (and possibly outside it too) Hell is a place where people are punished for wrongdoings, rather than a place that is trying to corrupt people. Corruption is in humans themselves by nature, but it is easy to blame a place like Hell, or an entity like the devil for things bad. Now maybe this goes straight against things you believe and believe in and I'm sorry if it does. This again is just a point of view and not something I'm trying to discuss or force you to believe. Think about it, if it makes sense... but forget it if you think it's not correct. Either way, this is the way the Hell in the comic works. It is, as I described above, an institution that carries out punishment as it's function.
I love that comment. When I started this comic I designed Priëlla this way. I could have drawn hooves on her (as I think is the common thing you'd see on most demons or succubi) but I liked this better. I didn't give her toes though but... I wonder how many people have the same opinion. So this is a really long post and I think most of the people who follow this thread will skip this (or not read up to this point) but I'll bold it so it might catch more eyes...
If you agree that Priëlla should grow some toes, please let me know in a reply to this post! Because I can make it happen. And don't worry, if I do this, it won't be as an 'afterthought' (although I hadn't thought of it or planned it initially), something is going to happen very soon that can very well include a couple more toes. (three per foot, hopefully that's enough for you guys!)
Edit: And if you do, PLEASE do not quote this entire post, because it's huge! Thanks 😉
Noted. Thanks.
I agree. Hehe. Well, if Priëlla succeeds, it is bound to open some eyes in this place and have a couple of changes come to Hell.
Yes, there is more focus on the story itself than trying to depict the actual tickling. Why? I wanted to create this story with a tickling theme rather than a story where tickling is the main ingredient, containing long sessions of people tickled in many positions. I know a number of you like to see that (and some don't care about the story at all as long as they can see people tickled) but I didn't want to write that kind of story. Besides, there's already plenty of that. About foot tickling, I think the tickle areas are quite evenly divided? Except that most of the foot tickling happens in the beginning of the story. At the end there's just Ariel's foot being tickled. The focus has shifted more to the upper body then.
Thanks. No, you didn't offend me. 🙂
I never got that the first time around. Who is Avaria? I tried to google it but it didn't come up with anything that made sense to me. 😛
I know neither me, nor my comics are perfect. But they're fun to do and as long as people are having fun reading/watching them too, all is good. Things don't always have to be 'perfect' for that. 😉
closing words: I may be a bit more artist than writer but I know at both I am only mediocre compared when looking at many others for their art or writing skills. But I am having fun doing these, writing and drawing stories. And though they are not perfect, many people seem to enjoy them too (art, story or both) and that's a bonus. I'm not perfect, maybe not even 'great' but then again, I'm also just an amateur.
(Note: Hee @ Bashiku's comment 😀 )
First of all, let me start by saying that you did not offend me. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and you have put it in a straightforward yet kind enough way. Again, there's really nothing I can change for you on this current story to make it more appealing (not even including a bit more foot tickling). What I'm going to do in this reply is give you some answers, although you didn't really ask questions. They are not 'excuses' from my side to defend myself or anything like that, but reasons and decisions I made as well of the ACTUAL focus of this comic. To make this still somewhat short a reply I will be rather selective on the parts I include in my quotes, please don't take that as the other stuff being dismissed or unimportant.
I know this. In Dora's case I think this is mostly due to the fact that she is like the sample of perfect innocence. Or actually, she's far beyond that, she is more like an activist of 'good'. Even in the worst situations, she still thinks positively and is determined to "make the world a better place". And that is rather dull. Yeah. In the very same way (but in a different area) Priëlla is an activist as well, strongly anti-hurting and with the focus on getting tickling as accepted method in Hell which, yes, is rather a flawed version of Hell, but I'll come back to that subject further on. This story is really about them and about the things I described above. That is why Sarah is more on the background (you'll see her just once more, on the next page, and she still has a final part to play there) even though she is playing an important part in the story too. This story is about the heroes more than about the villains. I would have liked to show the villains more often and in more depth, because I understand it is throwing things a little out of balance this way maybe, but I will keep that in mind for further projects and I think you'll find a bit more focus on the villains in the sequel (especially since the 'heroes', just to call them that, are already pretty well known at this point).
The fact that she is different is a big part of this character, yes. It's up to the point where you can say that she herself is a little "misplaced" in Hell. She's the cast-out, the one being teased, the one not fitting in with the rest. Dora strongly believes that she is too nice to belong in Hell. And the second side to Priëlla is that she WANTS to be respected and she wants to belong. Can she? Will she? Time will tell. Only at the start of the sequel you will REALLY see what this all led to. But that's for then.
Yes. She is the more 'believable human being'. Not exceptionally good hearted, she has her flaws but isn't actually purely evil either. She made a couple of bad choices and reacted overhasty, most of the cases she would probably have regret her actions later on. She's no hero and no saint. She has her secrets and that does make her interesting. I'm sorry I didn't cover a bit more about her in this comic. And what you say about her is right, she is being a little pushed aside as side character. She's important enough in the story and its development (and explanations) to be considered a main character, yet not exactly the character the story is about. A bit a painful situation too, it's like ending 2nd place in a competition and then being buried under the cheers that are going out mostly to the actually winner.
Time to talk about Hell. No, this version is not what I think Hell is like. My drive was not to try and create a realistic version of Hell, nor what is commonly believed Hell would be like (and thus creating an overdone version of cookie-cutter-hell). My intention was to portray Hell in a very light way, to leave out as much of the expected horror and terror as possible. That's incredibly un-Hell like of course, but I wanted this story not to be too heavy and not to concentrate on pain and torture. So there's very heavy contrast between what you think Hell should be like and what you see here. Understandable. For the rest, 'Green Day' seemed in the beginning to be a sort of 'rest day', which is another example of how this Hell could feel like not Hell at all. Whether this really was a rest day or something else... I'm not going to answer.
Yes. You have seen most development in Priëlla. Dora has stuck to her guns without letting go hold of them and she's STILL determined to make happen what she thinks is the right way for things to happen. She agrees with Priëlla's mission to earn respect and prove that tickling is a worthy (or in her eyes even BETTER) form of torture, because it's a more gentle form in both their eyes. You mentioned a one-track-mind. That is what she has right now and that makes her a boring character. Yes.
I'm sorry you didn't see more of her actual personality. Maybe the first 'green sky' episode was showing most about the pure character as you could see a glimpse of her while she was 'off duty'. You should get to know her a bit better in the sequel too, hopefully I can give her the attention she deserves.
Because that is another thing. See. I have drawn comics (several) and written stories (a few). Stories are easier in the respect that you have a far better flexibility and space to really describe and 'show' characters. You can put things they are feeling, reasons why they are feeling, trains of thought and all that kind of things, which are extremely difficult if not impossible to do in a comic format. If possible to go to the level of depth that a written story provides, it means that you'll get quite a few frames depicting this - which really makes the comic drag and become too long-winded and possibly even boring. Ever watched a movie of three or four hours with too little story progress? That's what you get.
Or to put it in another example: "Sarah felt angry. Not so much because Dora turned down her proposal to become friends... she really felt an almost innate repulsion towards this 'Miss Perfect'. Yes, that was it. Dora was a little TOO perfect. Ugh. Despicable! Sarah took a deep breath, trying to bury her hatred towards this blonde little angle. If Dora felt too good to become friends with her, she would taste her wrath... but not now. Not today. For the best effect, this needed to be well timed. A gentle smile formed upon Sarah's face now, almost more of a grimace."
Now, how to put that into comic format? First of all, these are more than words alone, they are ways the character is thinking and things you cannot just depict. They have to be properly described. This small paragraph of (what is it, little over 7 lines on my screen at this time) would take a page or more alone in the comic and not even approach the same effect unless the text is typed in narrator style in the first place (which would not create a comic, but in fact more like an illustrated story).
Frame 1: Sarah looking angry, accompanied with lot of narrative text.
Frame 2: Sarah taking a deep breath, closing her eyes maybe, some text.
Frame 3: View of Sarah or Dora (or both) with more thoughts described.
Frame 4: Sarah with smile/grimace. And some narrative text.
Text takes space in addition to the pictures and especially if there's a lot of it (as narrative can be if done with feeling) so we'll be talking about probably the full page for just this scene. And this scene is such a small part of the story that you're going to see... over hundred pages of narrated or partially narrated comic?
So comics generally have less depth than a story can have. Less impact (if the written story is written well). Comics have more of a visual attraction but while that's a plus for some, it's vice versa for others. Because drawn pictures limit the mind's abilities to form your own picture.
So it's clear that when creating a comic I am very limited in how much I can tell and in what depth. While I would absolutely LOVE to go to the depth of the narrative above, it's practically almost impossible. So I have to make choices... and focus on the story and it's progress... which unfortunately gives you less opportunities for extra snippets to learn more (and specifically more details) about (other) characters. Even Dora (who is rather bland by design) would have been more interesting if I could have spent more time on getting 'up close' with her feelings and memories.
Actually, this version of hell has only one level. No, evil is not the right word. Let's rephrase that. Hell is an institution with one function and one function only: To punish people who have done wrong. Now THIS Hell (talking about the one in the comic) does not function the right way. You would expect that a devious manipulator who brought many a person down to scraps would be punished heavier than someone who stole a car once and, drunk driving, hit someone on the street with result that the person became cripple. I believe the real Hell would 'work' in levels like that. Not this one. In this version of Hell people get punished equally, reason or no reason. In fact, their job is just to punish and they don't even have the records of what a person did wrong in their lives in most cases... neither do they CARE. Does that sound wrong? Maybe it is. Maybe not. I mean, who am I to decide? We humans see things in our own way and even culture can have influence on how we think about things. Pain (overrated) is the way things are done in this Hell and there is no room for something that is 'considered more gentle'. You are right in your saying, however, that this reasoning is extremely slanted and that other forms than pain are/can be much more effective. But... in this Hell that is beyond the grasp of the pretty straightforward and 'stupid' demons. Still. And that is something Priëlla is fighting. And trying to prove... If she can break through, that can mean quite a revolution indeed. So who's the dumb one now? People learn and so do demons, assumedly. Priëlla has already proven this, in fact, by finding out what it means to have a friend. What value it has and what it feels like. It is one of the things she hadn't even considered being worth thinking about.
Ah, yes. That's actually a point of interest too. Who says that Hell is a source of evil? Sure, the saying "The Devil made me do it" suggests so. But anyway, in this comic (and possibly outside it too) Hell is a place where people are punished for wrongdoings, rather than a place that is trying to corrupt people. Corruption is in humans themselves by nature, but it is easy to blame a place like Hell, or an entity like the devil for things bad. Now maybe this goes straight against things you believe and believe in and I'm sorry if it does. This again is just a point of view and not something I'm trying to discuss or force you to believe. Think about it, if it makes sense... but forget it if you think it's not correct. Either way, this is the way the Hell in the comic works. It is, as I described above, an institution that carries out punishment as it's function.
I love that comment. When I started this comic I designed Priëlla this way. I could have drawn hooves on her (as I think is the common thing you'd see on most demons or succubi) but I liked this better. I didn't give her toes though but... I wonder how many people have the same opinion. So this is a really long post and I think most of the people who follow this thread will skip this (or not read up to this point) but I'll bold it so it might catch more eyes...
If you agree that Priëlla should grow some toes, please let me know in a reply to this post! Because I can make it happen. And don't worry, if I do this, it won't be as an 'afterthought' (although I hadn't thought of it or planned it initially), something is going to happen very soon that can very well include a couple more toes. (three per foot, hopefully that's enough for you guys!)
Edit: And if you do, PLEASE do not quote this entire post, because it's huge! Thanks 😉
Noted. Thanks.
I agree. Hehe. Well, if Priëlla succeeds, it is bound to open some eyes in this place and have a couple of changes come to Hell.
Yes, there is more focus on the story itself than trying to depict the actual tickling. Why? I wanted to create this story with a tickling theme rather than a story where tickling is the main ingredient, containing long sessions of people tickled in many positions. I know a number of you like to see that (and some don't care about the story at all as long as they can see people tickled) but I didn't want to write that kind of story. Besides, there's already plenty of that. About foot tickling, I think the tickle areas are quite evenly divided? Except that most of the foot tickling happens in the beginning of the story. At the end there's just Ariel's foot being tickled. The focus has shifted more to the upper body then.
Thanks. No, you didn't offend me. 🙂
I never got that the first time around. Who is Avaria? I tried to google it but it didn't come up with anything that made sense to me. 😛
I know neither me, nor my comics are perfect. But they're fun to do and as long as people are having fun reading/watching them too, all is good. Things don't always have to be 'perfect' for that. 😉
closing words: I may be a bit more artist than writer but I know at both I am only mediocre compared when looking at many others for their art or writing skills. But I am having fun doing these, writing and drawing stories. And though they are not perfect, many people seem to enjoy them too (art, story or both) and that's a bonus. I'm not perfect, maybe not even 'great' but then again, I'm also just an amateur.
(Note: Hee @ Bashiku's comment 😀 )
Last edited:
bitter_arron
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Please don't give her toes, her feet are unique little quirk in this comic that I think should stay.
Abadon XXX1
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XD *giggle* yoda
11225
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Oh no! Talk about a sad way to get a bad news....I guess it happens now and then. 🙁 Nice way to bring a shock to this. ^_^
Abadon XXX1
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*Has a feeling that Priella is not truly a villian, but is good in the end*
Ilohnoh1
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Yes, this was not quite what Dora had hoped for to happen at the next v-shift. But reality can hit hard.
Villain? She's just a worker of Hell. Is she good or is she bad? You'll be able to make your judgement of that at the end of this chapter. But there may still be a surprise or two around the corner, as always.
Yes, this is sad sad news for Dora. But it's not the final, there's two more pages in store. That is the final. Sad or not, this story will end either way.
SupportGunner
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Am I the only one who thinks it would be awesome to see Yoda, Santa and Lucifer in a battle royal?
Nice work Ilohnoh. Looking forward to see the end.
Nice work Ilohnoh. Looking forward to see the end.
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Ilohnoh1
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Thank you, SupportGunner! 🙂
The last page is scheduled for this upcoming weekend. The artwork is almost finished (only the last panel remains to be done), but I probably won't have time to finish it before this weekend.
Abadon XXX1
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daaaaaaaaaaw
black_shuck
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Nice ending. I enjoyed reading the comic.
Ilohnoh1
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Thanks for the daaaw moment. 🙂
Thanks, black_shuck. Glad you liked the ending. I remember that at the beginning of the comic someone was hoping she'd stay in there for good, but... well. She didn't deserve that, did she?
But there's always the sequel, now isn't there? These two will meet again. 😉
Inverse
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Disappointed with the ending. 🙁 They should have gone to heaven together. Lucifer could have kicked her out just because he was tired of all the laughing or something. Splitting them up is too cruel.
Thank you for that tho~ loved the comic. <3
Thank you for that tho~ loved the comic. <3
GiveMeFeet
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Ilohnoh, this is good stuff.
I think the ending wrapped up a little too nicely here, but the one thing I've enjoyed about your work is that you don't know how it will end. Does the good guy win? The bad guy win? State of purgatory? Does Jen die? Does Dora go to heaven?
With you, one never knows. And I like it like that.
If Hollywood had this kind of unpredictability, I reckon movies would be even more successful...
I think the ending wrapped up a little too nicely here, but the one thing I've enjoyed about your work is that you don't know how it will end. Does the good guy win? The bad guy win? State of purgatory? Does Jen die? Does Dora go to heaven?
With you, one never knows. And I like it like that.
If Hollywood had this kind of unpredictability, I reckon movies would be even more successful...
Ilohnoh1
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Everyone wants something different. This was the RIGHT way for things to end. Priëlla says it herself in the end. She belongs there. She is a demon and she is all about punishment. Heaven wouldn't be a place where she'd feel happy. Period. But neither is Hell for Dora. The sad part is that this means they won't be able to stay together... but then there's always the visits (and the sequel, where they will "meet in the middle", but that's for another time).
Thanks. =) I appreciate that comment. It does have a bit a fairytale ending maybe (save from that they can't stay together). All is well that ends well and such. But it doesn't always happen that way. And you're right, with me you never know. I don't work for Disney. 😉
