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Ted Kennedy

AnnieHall said:
If anyone reads past three sentences of this diatribe, it would be amazing. The subject of this thread is Ted Kennedy's death, not the car accident 40 years ago. There are three other threads on his death that this post might fare better in.

kthanx.
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AnnieHall said:
Seriously, the little sidebar comments about things that have happened months ago, that I have apologized for, don't need to show up in each thread I start or post in. Come on man, you're at least as old as Kennedy yourself.

Live up to your signature.

I realize now that people have differing opinions on the incident in 69 involving Old Ted, so understandable that those opinions be expressed in this thread and the other two.

Continue.
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So then you probably owe someone an apology for their diatribe on a subject that was open to discussion. Wouldn't you agree?

Senate Ted Kennedy got away with everything imaginable that would have put people like you and me away for a long, long, long time. He was not a nice man. So when you put Ted Kennedy out there, it evokes such distaning memories I felt compelled to say something. I am glad you understand we do have differing opinions on 1969. Keep up the good work. :bow:
 
venray said:
You are correct to say things would have been different, but that is because the year 1969 was different....men and women were not treated anywhere near as equals nor were they judged the same way...

Ted's biggest crime was not even making a call to report the incident until the next day and after the body was found....he didnt even think of helping her...this most likely cost Mary Jo her life...and he did it to save his own political ass.....
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You are right, Venray, his crime was not to report the fact and call for help immediately, even if he panic. What in my country is call omission of assistance. And probably the fact of being a Kennedy helped him to escape prison, but it did not save his political career. Without the 1969 incident, he would have been President if only for the inertia of the fame of his two dead brothers. For this crime of omission of assistance, then or today would have been exactly the same to be a man or a woman, I think.

However, I was referring, to the popular belief that he as a man and only because of being a man should have tried to rescue her or die trying. This would have not being an issue, even today I think, if he would have being a woman. Not being a hero, may be unpopular but hardly a crime and be male does not mean you are obligated to be a hero. Not asking for help, even under a panic attack, is a crime, but not risking his life to rescue her was not a crime.
 
He was most likely in no condition to risk his life to save her (drinking involved) but that does not make him any less guilty of her death....

He has wielded more power and influence more political agendas in his almost 50 years in the Senate than he ever would have as president.....

I would have rather have had him have 4-8 years as president and go off to write his memoirs than to have him mucking up so much over the past few decades....

What is done is done....Mary Jo's family can now speak out and publish their book as the agreement they made ended with his death..
 
Fair enough Venray.
I did not know Jo's family wanted to write a book and have an agreement.
 
Quoting a GR and then making one of your own.

Do this again and you will be banned from this subforum. ~Myriads
 
oh darn a murdering liberal scumbag dead..good riddance . I just wish obama was in the same situation
 
tummytickler69 said:
oh darn a murdering liberal scumbag dead..good riddance . I just wish obama was in the same situation
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My favorite liberal response:

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Wuv! :grouphug:
 
Thank you for that Angel, I agree. Then again, I'm a Kennedy fan (obviously not of EVERYTHING they do) but Massachusetts is a small state and I have a few fun memories of the Kennedys that I did meet. Ted was not one them however.

That being said, I'm surprised at some of you frankly and not in a good way. Few "rich white" men did as much to further the civil rights movement as Teddy Kennedy.
Let me ask you a question: Were you as perfect 40 years ago as you are now? I highly doubt it. Hell, I'm not the same person I was TEN years ago.
XOXO

Angel77 said:
Crash or not, to me it's still sad news. He was still a dad, uncle, grandfather, etc. and cancer sucks. I lost my mother to cancer last year after watching her suffer for years so yeah, I do feel bad that some family, whether it's the Kennedys or not, lost another loved one to this horrible disease. I'll be keeping his family in my prayers.
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I never agreed with senator Kennedy's political views, but I was saddened to learn of his passing. I've fought a battle against cancer myself, so know how diabolical and painful it can be. If for no other reason, I deeply respect the senator's great courage for being brave and inspirational in the face of a terminal diagnosis.

May senator Kennedy rest in peace, and may God bless his family with comfort and strength.
 
steph said:
Thank you for that Angel, I agree. Then again, I'm a Kennedy fan (obviously not of EVERYTHING they do) but Massachusetts is a small state and I have a few fun memories of the Kennedys that I did meet. Ted was not one them however.

That being said, I'm surprised at some of you frankly and not in a good way. Few "rich white" men did as much to further the civil rights movement as Teddy Kennedy.
Let me ask you a question: Were you as perfect 40 years ago as you are now? I highly doubt it. Hell, I'm not the same person I was TEN years ago.
XOXO
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I've always had a fascination with the Kennedys as well 🙂
 
I want nothing to do with the background drama. I'm sick to death of that shit...anywhere it takes place. But, I DID want to comment about the actual topic of this thread.

Ted was no angel. That's a given. And I disagreed with his politics often. But, he did do a lot of good as well. I can't honestly say that I respected him. But, I did respect the fact that he was honest about his view of things no matter what anyone thought. So, as with anyone else, I rejoice in the good he did and pray that he be forgiven his many weaknesses and that those who love him may find peace.
 
tummytickler69 said:
oh darn a murdering liberal scumbag dead..good riddance . I just wish obama was in the same situation
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Wow...now isn't this special?

So all liberals should be dead per your standards? Exactly what has Obama done to deserve death other than to pick up this country and do the best he can with what little he has? If I had your attitude I would've wished death on Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Bush's I and II. As much as I despised Reagan for what he personally did to ruin my family, I never wished his death.

As far as Senator Kennedy is concerned, he was definitely no saint. As far as Chappaquidick is concerned, he was young, stupid, and connected to a rich family. He's not the first to take advantage of social status and won't be the last. Judging by the plights of that family, they didn't walk away scot-free........they paid a huge price for their transgressions and then some.

But if it weren't for the efforts of the Kennedy family, my mentally handicapped son wouldn't have the benefits and special programs he has to participate in. There would be no Special Olympics and I know at least a few of you here have participated or know others who have. Prior to the national attention, kids with special needs could be either institutionalized or treated as lab rats. And for those of you who haven't had children yet, you'll come to appreciate these benefits and programs in the event that your child/ren be born with one or multiple mental handicapps.

In closing, everyone knows and possibly loves Dr Martin Luther King Jr. He was the man who allegedly singlehandely ushered in the Civil Rights movement in the 60s. First of all, he was the man in front, but not the only man involved in the movement. Secondly, he was a flawed man who was said to be a womanizer. Oh, dear.......Dr King cheated on his wife!! The world's coming to an end just around the corner!!! Guess what folks?? He still is the one in the history books. His efforts did not go in vain regardless of his faults, flaws, and shortcomings. His mistakes did not detract from the successful work he completed. Neither did it negate the works done by the Kennedy family or Lyndon Johnson either (and I can bring up incident after incident about him...................

Senator, you had a complicated life and died a complicated death. You didn't die feeling sorry for yourself; you died working and fighting for your life. I might not have liked everything you did, I certainly admire what you've done and the legacy you left behind.

Regardless of what you think of the man, he was somebody's something. He was a father, husband, uncle, cousin, brother, son. He was a human being and there are many relatives who are grieving over him as we type our opinions......

RIP
 
In my former life, before moving to Santa Fe, I was a legislative assistant and economic policy advisor to the Chairman of the Senate Ethics Committee (a Dem) for 8 years. Unlike the House, in the Senate the divide is not between Dems and Republicans or liberals and conservatives but between workhorses and show horses. Sen. Kennedy, whether you like him or not, was a workhorse, as is Sen. Hatch, like him or not (and they worked together and compromised often to get legislation passed).

Workhorses are the ones who get the work done. Show horses in both parties are the ones who give the ideological speeches to their respective choirs and engage in childish partisan bickering but don't have much legislation to show for their time there because they piss people off they later need for votes. Workhorses are universally respected by Senators and staff from both parties because they're the ones who get things done and change the course of human events.

Kennedy was widely regarded across the political spectrum as the most effective Senator by sheer legislative accomplishment. One reason not widely known is that he supplemented the allotment provided for staff with some of his family's wealth in order to hire the best and brightest from Harvard and M.I.T. He had more institutional memory on his staff than any other Senate staff, including ours.

Whether his half-century of work in the Senate fighting for progressive public policy made up for his earlier mistakes I'm not going to argue: how the hell can I know that and who the fuck are we to judge? But when someone dies, as when Pres. Reagan died, it's a nice tradition to honor them for the good that they did and forgive them for the bad.
 
SantaFeSwitch said:
In my former life, before moving to Santa Fe, I was a legislative assistant and economic policy advisor to the Chairman of the Senate Ethics Committee (a Dem) for 8 years. Unlike the House, in the Senate the divide is not between Dems and Republicans or liberals and conservatives but between workhorses and show horses. Sen. Kennedy, whether you like him or not, was a workhorse, as is Sen. Hatch, like him or not (and they worked together and compromised often to get legislation passed).

Workhorses are the ones who get the work done. Show horses in both parties are the ones who give the ideological speeches to their respective choirs and engage in childish partisan bickering but don't have much legislation to show for their time there because they piss people off they later need for votes. Workhorses are universally respected by Senators and staff from both parties because they're the ones who get things done and change the course of human events.

Kennedy was widely regarded across the political spectrum as the most effective Senator by sheer legislative accomplishment. One reason not widely known is that he supplemented the allotment provided for staff with some of his family's wealth in order to hire the best and brightest from Harvard and M.I.T. He had more institutional memory on his staff than any other Senate staff, including ours.

Whether his half-century of work in the Senate fighting for progressive public policy made up for his earlier mistakes I'm not going to argue: how the hell can I know that and who the fuck are we to judge? But when someone dies, as when Pres. Reagan died, it's a nice tradition to honor them for the good that they did and forgive them for the bad.
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I agree with the way you framed this. I think we take our political ideology and ferment it into an illogical hatred which threatens to make every single decision we make be bound to the nastiness born through disagreement. My belief system on what Reagan was (and more importantly, what he stood for for the millions indoctrinated by his ideology) does not make me state with clear head or mind that I am somehow glad that the man is dead. Which is why I cannot understand the raw hatred and happiness some people genuinely express. It is actually quite sad to see grown men and women be so blinded and childish that they shoot from the hip on something they can't truly understand.
 
meangry said:
I agree with the way you framed this. I think we take our political ideology and ferment it into an illogical hatred which threatens to make every single decision we make be bound to the nastiness born through disagreement. My belief system on what Reagan was (and more importantly, what he stood for for the millions indoctrinated by his ideology) does not make me state with clear head or mind that I am somehow glad that the man is dead. Which is why I cannot understand the raw hatred and happiness some people genuinely express. It is actually quite sad to see grown men and women be so blinded and childish that they shoot from the hip on something they can't truly understand.
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Well said. Political ideologies are secular religions that shackle the mind in the straightjacket of groupthink.
 
venray said:
I know bro...I have been around too long to think there will ever be any real change...though Obama fooled me into believing it could happen....shame on me...
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Obama can make it happen, just give him some time...he hasn't been in office a year yet....some patience good buddy


AFA Kennedy is concerned, RIP...
 
SantaFeSwitch said:
Well said. Political ideologies are secular religions that shackle the mind in the straightjacket of groupthink.
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This statement needs to be hanged over the top of the P&R forum because it couldn't be more clearly evidenced than in that subforum.:iagree::ty:
 
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