The Confederate Flag

[JoBelle]

Ice,
I'm not minimizing the reality of what happened so long ago.

How DARE you paint me like that!!??!?

I'm FROM the South.

I know the history.

I live the history.

I know more about your ancestral slave history than you DO! It's part of my life's education being in the area you despise. It's part of my formal univeristy education. I know what I'm talking about.

I am not some white hooded southern redneck spouting insanity in your direction.

What I'm saying is that the histroy of a people is to be recognized, not relived.

It wasn't YOU. It was your history.

I can claim that the Cherokee in me has a right to hate your arguments because you're not an indiginous person. I can argue that the poverty stricken Cajun in me says you had it good...at least when slavery ended, you had SOME way out while the Cajuns were stuck in the mire of the bayous of the poor in south Louisiana. I could hold onto history and hate your attitude as much as you show your hatred.

HOWEVER....I choose not to do that.

You have effectively ignored every rational and intelligent comment made and focused only on the base argument of emotion that was already given. How old are you anyway? Maybe I chalk your indignance up to inexperience. Until you csan learn to communicate with people that you may not agree with, I guess you'll be stuck in the past.

And that, as Ven would say, is my last two cents with you.


Joby

 

[ShiningIce]

Oh dont give me that I know more than you crap. I'm from the south too. I dont care how much you CLAIM to know and I dont care about what you think of me I feel how I feel. If you dont like it TOO DAMN BAD. I know my histroy. Oh so you're 30 and suddenly you're a wise old sage??? Please. Take your own advice and STOP LIVING IN THE PAST, meaning....................YOU DONT NEED THAT DAMN FLAG. When you here about your uncles and your aunts being lynched then you go ahead and tell me you know how it feels. This is my last post to this thread I'm done believe what you want. Keep telling yourself you're the mature one you know more then me .....whatever boosts your already inflated ego, Im out.

 

[CDFGA]

Hey, ICE, ...I see your "location" reads "Cali" ......Why don't you try to move "back" to the south (And I don't mean atlanta) and start talking all that crap. You know nobody in the south wants to hear it. I guess you subscribe to the ol' "Love it or leave it" also, huh?


Oh, Georgia is gearing up to put the confederate flag to a vote in the near future. THAT'S why Ga. finally got a republican governor, because the last one went against the MAJORITY of Georgians and changed the flag from the confederate flag with the Ga. state seal attached, to the ugly-as-hell one in use now. ....We see what happened in Mississippi and South Carolina also.
(<--- from the top of the statehouse to the front lawn there.)


Hmmmmm, seems like a MAJORITY of people actually DO like and respect the confederate flag. Or, as you say, ...." If you dont like it TOO DAMN BAD. "



....Excellent, interesting, healthy debate, everyone.

 

[JoBelle]

Hello Mods?

I'm thinking that this thread would benefit most if it were just locked. I notice that when even *I* , the Queen of Silly, starts to get cranky and rude, it's gotten out of hand.😛 Some people aren't is interested in an actual discussion anyway...it turned into a flame about three rounds back.

Could ya kill it perhaps?
Joby

 

[Scooby112211]

Well, I am not suprised that this thread got a little "heated". I tried to make my point clearly, conscious of both sides of the coin. I don't see any wrongdoings on your part, JoBelle, and I also don't see a need right now to close the thread. All off topic flamebaits will be edited out, and hopefully we can let this thread either resume debate or sink in due time. If it does get out of hand, we will close it.

Scoob

 

[Sunriseticklee]

My friend told me to stay away from this thread.... He said whatever I posted, it wouldn't be worth it... So if you see this... LOL I'm sorry, I couldn't help it.

I live in Georgia, in fact, and I am teaching Georgia History. Not only that, we are on the Civil War right now. LOL and I do declare, some of my students know more about this than some of ya'll. (Which to me is a good thing.)

Now... I'm a history major, and I too live history. I know my stuff.

I will say this:

1) The Civil War was NOT about slavery, it was about States' Rights. People didn't much like Big Government telling them what to do and how to run their lives. Has that changed? Probably not.

How did slavery get mixed into this? Well.... War is also almost always about money and power. Only 5% of the total white male (head of the family) population was planters. Most of the southern population didn't even own slaves. Hey, but he who has the money has the power, and he who has the power makes the rules. Those 5% spoke for everybody; after all, they were the ones in political power. Cotton and Slaves were the keys to their monetary success. (Which the NORTH was also using - cotton- to get rich as well).

2) Governor Purdue did not get elected solely because the majority in Georgia wanted to change the flag.

He also got elected because almost EVERY teacher in Georgia hated Governor Barnes because he screwed up the education system and screwed us over. So Barnes gets even by cutting our salaries. What does Purdue do? He is proposing to cut all teachers' raises next year. Georgia can pretty much kiss my ass because I'm moving. Purdue will not be re-elected. A democrat will and then the flag will be changed back again. Yawn... such a stupid vicious circle.

3) The flag.

It didn't start off as a symbol of hatred. More of a symbol of history and pride. (Granted, that history, and pride and wealth was built off the backs of my ancestors, and I am definitely not embracing that.) Hate groups have picked the flag up and turned it into a flag of hurt, pain and injustice.

I, by the way, don't live in Atlanta anymore. I live in North Georgia where they sell these flags on the side of the road and where my students wear them everyday. They wear it as a symbol of pride for their heritage. (there are a couple who wear it as a smack of racism with racist sayings on t-shirts and such, but those kids get sent home/ suspended) When I look into my students' eyes, I see kids ready to learn and ready to share. I love that. The sight of the rebel flag doesn't offend me. (After all, I pledge my allegiance to the American flag. As my students do). I can call a cowardly racist by his name and I don't care what symbol he hides behind, whether it be a white hood, a swastika, a flag, or a cross, or a black fist. There is NOT a student in my class who thinks slavery was right, and yet, they still have pride in their history and their flag.

Here is my opinion..... WHY are we spending time and money fighting over a flag when there is a war going on, when people in our country are starving and dying, when teacher's salaries are being cut (lol), when all these other things are going on. That's what I don't respect.

They can keep their flag. The American Flag flies above it. And it doesn't take away who I am, what my heritage is, and what love and respect I have for myself. Every time I look at the flag it reminds me of where I am not, and of all the people who died (regardless of the reasons) to get me where I am today.

There are other MORE important battles to fight. I don't remember, right after 911, anyone fighting over which flag to fly!

Sunrise


And by the way.... CDFGA... I do speak up against racism and the misuse of the flag and all that jazz in Georgia. LOUDLY in fact! People listen everyday. So I don't know what all that... "Come say that in Georgia." mess was all about.

Its not like Georgia is choke full of ONLY racist rednecks that are running around lynching people who disagree with them. After all... there used to be a boy who would spit at me on the school bus, and call me nigger everyday... after I kicked his ass, he shut the hell up. See! Even ignorant hate spouting idiots can be convinced by a Californian.

Oh and ShiningIce... Just letting you know that slaves were considered 3/5ths of a person. Not 2/3.

This number came out of the Three-Fifths Compromise. When the Constitution was being formed the south all of a sudden wanted to count slaves in their population so they could have more representatives and votes.

The north said, "No way!" I mean, how can you count property? And they are not even allowed to vote! So there was a compromise. 3/5th of the total slave population in a state could be counted.

Oh and yes slaves were raped, murdered, beaten, all the bad things that you could name did happen to the slaves, but not to all of them (the majority). Just because some slaves had life easier than others does not justify slaver. They were slaves. They had no freedom and were seen as property and that is wrong in itself. Good master or bad master.... It should not have happened.

Did Africans sell/trade other Africans into slavery? YES Did Americans and Europeans sell and trade slaves too? YES.

Were most of the people fighting on the Confederate side of the war slave owners? NO

Were most of the people fighting on the Northern side Abolitionists?
NO

If that were the case racism would not be as strong as it is today. After all, there is racism EVERYWHERE not just in the south.

And Scooby, your history lesson was on target. Thank you for saving me some typing. LOL

 

[TicklingDuo]

I'm not going to get into the history or racial end of the confederate flag, I just find it interesting how rock bands embrace it. Tom Petty, who used the flag as a backdrop during his 1985 "Southern Accents" tour, no longer uses it and has asked his fans to stop bringing them to his concerts. While Lynyrd Skynyrd still uses it today, mainly for when they play "Sweet Home Alabama".

And again, no point here at all.


Drew😉

 

[Strelnikov]

My ancestors included men who were Federal soldiers. They thought they were fighting to preserve the Union - and they were right.

My wife's ancestors included men who were Confederate soldiers. They thought they were fighting to defend their homes against invasion - and they were right too.

Our kids have ancestors on both sides. And that's OK, because it doesen't matter any more. The war has been over for almost 140 yrs. The last Civil War veteran died in 1957. The last former slave died more than 30 yrs ago.

And Ice, I find it hard to believe that you're from the South. Southerners tend to be polite - and you're the opposite.

Strelnikov

 

[ShiningIce]

And Ice, I find it hard to believe that you're from the South. Southerners tend to be polite - and you're the opposite.

Oh look whos talking geezer. 🙄

 

[JoBelle]

You know a thread is dead when it has boiled down to a flaming repsonse. SHEESH....nothing more to see here folks....lol. 🙁 🙄

 

[TicklingDuo]

In the words of Jack Nicolson (from "Mars Attacks"):

"Can't we all just......get along?"


Drew😉

 

[JoBelle]

In the words of Jack Nicolson (from "Mars Attacks"):

"Can't we all just......get along?"
Drew😉

Hey Drew?

D'ya think you could be NOT hilarious for like...oh...just one post in a row? Maybe? My monitor gets washed by the contents of my mouth almost everytime I read something you've typed! 😛

Joby

 

[Krokus]

Yep..

This thread needs to be deleted...I don't know why it was made in the 1st place....nothing good could have come out of it..

 

[TicklingDuo]

O.K., Joby, this is Drew NOT being hilarious.....for one post only.




Drew😉