ShiningIce
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The Star Wars Thread
- Thread starter ShiningIce
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you're right about that. Star Wars is THE GREATEST saga of all time. i'm pissed at George Lucas because i have to wait till 2005 for Episode 3. Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter sequels come in consecutive years. Star Wars takes 3? damn damn damn. i am looking forward to seeing the transformation of Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader. i cant wait to hear that famous breathing. the deep voice. the power that Vader has. damn, i cant wait!!!
my predictions for Episode 3 is that Anakin/Darth Vader will defeat Count Dooku to become the Emperor's pawn. also, i think that Darth Sidious will be revealed as Emperor Palpatine. although some people think the two are separate individuals. we should also see the birth of the twins, although i think that will be the very last scene.
here's a quick question. how come Yoda didnt decide to train Anakin? i know Yoda deals with the young jedis, but this is supposed to be the most powerful of them all. he let a new Jedi Knight train him. also, remember when Yoda in Episode 2 felt Anakin in pain after his mother died and he slashed all those Sand People? how come Yoda didnt sit him down and try to console him. remember, anger leads to the dark side. Yoda let him deal with it on his own. i guess Yoda isnt as smart as we think......
my predictions for Episode 3 is that Anakin/Darth Vader will defeat Count Dooku to become the Emperor's pawn. also, i think that Darth Sidious will be revealed as Emperor Palpatine. although some people think the two are separate individuals. we should also see the birth of the twins, although i think that will be the very last scene.
here's a quick question. how come Yoda didnt decide to train Anakin? i know Yoda deals with the young jedis, but this is supposed to be the most powerful of them all. he let a new Jedi Knight train him. also, remember when Yoda in Episode 2 felt Anakin in pain after his mother died and he slashed all those Sand People? how come Yoda didnt sit him down and try to console him. remember, anger leads to the dark side. Yoda let him deal with it on his own. i guess Yoda isnt as smart as we think......
ShiningIce
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Go Vader!!! I cant wait to watch him waste the Jedi!! Long live the Sith!! 😎 
Celtic_Emperor
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primetime said:
Its going to take until 2005?! I didn't know that...drat. Thats too long, and if we have to wait that long, it had better be good dangnabit!
As far as your predictions for episode 3, I agree that Anakin will somehow become Palpatine's pawn. Obviously, thats what happens and what has been happening. Palpatine has been poisoning the kid ever since he became a padawan. Its only natural that because of the current events in his life, and mostly his resentment for Kenobi, that he eventually takes the easy way out. Palpatine has already told him to trust his feeling, and he will be invincible. Anakin's lust for Padme makes it easy to swallow what Palpatine says. And perhaps the greatest poison that Palpatine, at this point, has given Anakin is that "you don't need guidance". Obviously this is to the contrary, he needs it bad, but he won't accept it because when he hears words like "guidance" that brings him back to his constant teenage rebellion with Kenobi.
The thing about Dooku that wasn't made clear in the movie is whether or not he is Palpatine's apprentice. Palpatine refers to him as "lord" rather then "apprentice". While both ranks/titles could be used to indicate a partnership in the way of an apprentice, I don't necessarily think Dooku is Palpatine's apprentice. He's not even refered to as "Darth" ultimately, in private, with Palpatine.
As far as Anakin having to fight and kill Dooku to become Palpatine's apprentice, I don't see why that would be necessary. The Sith aren't as radical as some tend to believe. While they aren't as organized as the Jedi, and there isn't a clear chain of command other then "master and apprentice", its hard, at least for me to determine why this duel would be necessary. Unless of course my above statement about Dooku not being Palpatine's apprentice is not true.
If in fact Dooku is Palpatine's apprentice, and isn't just in league with him, then it would be beneficial for Palpatine to drop Dooku for Anakin. Mainly because the time is now right, not because Dooku isn't any good any more. Royal guard soldiers (Emperor's guards) have to fight to the death with eachother in order to become a protective agent of the emperor. So in retrospect, perhaps even at the higher levels of the Sith order, such practices determine position.
As far as Sidious being founded out, or whether Palpatine reveals his true identity on his own accord, it will most likely happen in some fashion. But I believe this will only happen after some kind of battle. If the movies are to follow the story, (don't quote me on this though) Anakin fights with Obi-Wan over some kind of pit, Obi-Wan wins, knocking Anakin (whether this is intentional or not) into the pit causing severe burns and damage thus forcing Anakin to wear the mask from now on. I believe if this is the scenerio (pit or not), and Palpatine is in no danger to reveal himself, then he will.
My one, single wish however, is that we get to see Palpatine fight. I know its a long shot because he's more of a manipulator then a fighter, but thats my one wish. I want him to draw his lightsaber (assuming he has one which he probably does), and actually duel with someone. Preferably Windu. Perhaps that is how Windu dies, by Palpatine's hands. Again, because it would mean so much to me, because Palpatine is my tie favorite character, I would very much like to see him duel with someone. Not just use force lightning or use Sith powers. I want a straight out lightsaber duel!
If you factor in reality, theres no reason for wanting this to be unreasonable. Afterall, is it not Palpatine who trained the overly-impressive Darth Maul? Even at an advanced age (I'm guessing he's in his late 40s to early 50s), that Palpatine can fight like the greatest of Jedi' past and present. If Dooku can do it, why not Palpatine? I rest my case for now.
I agree that the last scene of the movie will most likely be of Luke and Leia being scurried away to the two different, distant systems.
My answer to your question-
Yoda was most likely just following procedure. Anakin has a master of his own, and perhaps for any number of reasons Yoda felt it wouldn't be appropiate for him to do that job. Perhaps Yoda didn't think much of it at first or at the time. Remember, Anakin's future is "clouded". When we hear that, we assume it means something bad, because we already know whats going to happen. Yoda, and the Jedi do not. Yoda also respects Qui-Gon Jinn's (my other tie favorite character) final request. Yoda knows that even though Qui-Gon was a rebel of sorts, that he truely was one of the most venerable and caring of all the Jedi. Obi-Wan also did say that he would train Anakin even without the council's permission. Obviously, its better to respect Qui-Gon's wish, clear any future problems within the ranks, and let Obi-Wan train Anakin. Yoda probably also figured that Qui-Gon's caring, nuturing nature rubbed off on Obi-Wan and that that would benefit Anakin.
As far as the part of your question in reference to why Yoda didn't pull Anakin aside and talk to him, is simple. Yoda knows at least that Anakin is defiant, so he probably figures Anakin would only feel resentment for anything Yoda had to say. And Yoda is wise enough to know that you can't force yourself on someone. You have to let them do as they see fit. Yoda truely feels for Anakin, but even he realizes theres nothing he could do as Anakin is in a shell. Stripping Anakin of his status would only make things worse, so thats out. Also, maybe in episode 3 it will show this exchange between the two happen, or perhaps show a flashback of this having happened already. Inquiring any more about it right now, is like asking why can't the Jedi sense the dark side in Palpatine.
So I feel your saying that Yoda may not be as smart as we think is a bit pre-mature. I'm sure that he had his reasons, and that perhaps they will be revealed in this final installment of the Star Wars Trilogy.
- Damien
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Celtic_Emperor
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Yes, I know he is. I simply said there was no reference to that rank specifically in the movie to and for him. And its Tyrannos I believe. I could be wrong.
And yes, one would hope.
- Damien
And yes, one would hope.
- Damien
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Celtic_Emperor
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He does. But that could just very well be a sign of respect for Palpatine's higher postion and authority. I feel more compelled to believe Dooku was more in league with Palpatine then he was his apprentice. Again though, I could be wrong. Both sides are acceptable. It doesn't really matter if he is or he isn't.
Really? Well, I guess thats good. I'm not a Star Wars geek or anything. I don't go to conventions, collect the toys, read the books, cosplay, or anything like that. I just happen to retain information well and make common sense out of it.
- Damien
Really? Well, I guess thats good. I'm not a Star Wars geek or anything. I don't go to conventions, collect the toys, read the books, cosplay, or anything like that. I just happen to retain information well and make common sense out of it.
- Damien
Limeoutsider
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I'm thinking that Yoda didn't train Anakin because of what the Jedi COincil said about Anakin...I think Georgie waits that long between sequels so he can get more money
i believe Dooku is Palpatine's apprentice. remember what Yoda said in Episode 1? there are always two, a master and an apprentice. Darth Maul (who was a very cool character) died, so Palpatine needs another. Dooku steps in. remember, he was a Jedi and he became a Sith. someone had to teach him. in reference to calling Dooku "lord", remember, they called Vader "lord". Dooku's Sith name is Darth Tyrannus.
i think Yoda should have at least said SOMETHING to Anakin. or Obi Wan at least. they could have nipped it in the bud, but look what happens. Jedi get wiped out, Yoda hides in a swamp, Obi Wan becomes a hermit to escape the wrath of the Empire. i bet looking back they said, "you know, maybe we should have talked to him about his mother's death......"
i do have to admit that the Emperor was a genius. i mean he waited YEARS to manipulate people to finally take over. that man has some patience. i know there were little failures along the way, but he stuck to his plan and took over. he fooled the Trade Federation, he fooled the Republic, fooled the Jedi, fooled everyone. he had an army created for him using a dead Jedi's name. the man had a plan!! but, his arrogance is what cost him. remember in Return of the Jedi, how he perfected a plan to crush the Rebellion once and for all? there were two oversights that made his Empire collapse. 1) he didnt expect Luke to turn Vader back to the "light". 2) he didnt pay attention to the Ewoks. that's right, a bunch of teddy bears foiled his Endor plan, causing the Rebels to blow up the shield, which allowed the Rebel fighters to destroy the Death Star. if i was him, once i sent troops to Endor, i would have eliminated all living animals. i'm supposed to be evil, so why should i care if i destroy the eco-system on Endor? i bet that wherever Sith spirits go after death, they are clowning Palpatine.
"hey Palpy, how did your Empire end?" one of them would say.
*grumble* "Dont talk to me...." Palpatine responds.
"nah, for real, who beat your people on Endor?"
*mumbling* "teddy bears......"
"what? we cant hear you."
"DAMMIT!!! TEDDY BEARS!!! FREAKIN TEDDY BEARS BEAT MY BEST TROOPS!! ARGH!!!!" (shaking his fist)
but i cant wait for Episode 3. i wonder what happens to Padme? she has to live for a little while because Leia remembers her when she was very little. Anakin does fight Obi Wan Kenobi and he will lose. that will pretty much cause him to become Vader. i believe he falls into a lava pit, which of course causes him to get his "Vader suit". i dont know about you, but wont you get chills once you hear that famous Vader breathing?
i think Yoda should have at least said SOMETHING to Anakin. or Obi Wan at least. they could have nipped it in the bud, but look what happens. Jedi get wiped out, Yoda hides in a swamp, Obi Wan becomes a hermit to escape the wrath of the Empire. i bet looking back they said, "you know, maybe we should have talked to him about his mother's death......"
i do have to admit that the Emperor was a genius. i mean he waited YEARS to manipulate people to finally take over. that man has some patience. i know there were little failures along the way, but he stuck to his plan and took over. he fooled the Trade Federation, he fooled the Republic, fooled the Jedi, fooled everyone. he had an army created for him using a dead Jedi's name. the man had a plan!! but, his arrogance is what cost him. remember in Return of the Jedi, how he perfected a plan to crush the Rebellion once and for all? there were two oversights that made his Empire collapse. 1) he didnt expect Luke to turn Vader back to the "light". 2) he didnt pay attention to the Ewoks. that's right, a bunch of teddy bears foiled his Endor plan, causing the Rebels to blow up the shield, which allowed the Rebel fighters to destroy the Death Star. if i was him, once i sent troops to Endor, i would have eliminated all living animals. i'm supposed to be evil, so why should i care if i destroy the eco-system on Endor? i bet that wherever Sith spirits go after death, they are clowning Palpatine.
"hey Palpy, how did your Empire end?" one of them would say.
*grumble* "Dont talk to me...." Palpatine responds.
"nah, for real, who beat your people on Endor?"
*mumbling* "teddy bears......"
"what? we cant hear you."
"DAMMIT!!! TEDDY BEARS!!! FREAKIN TEDDY BEARS BEAT MY BEST TROOPS!! ARGH!!!!" (shaking his fist)
but i cant wait for Episode 3. i wonder what happens to Padme? she has to live for a little while because Leia remembers her when she was very little. Anakin does fight Obi Wan Kenobi and he will lose. that will pretty much cause him to become Vader. i believe he falls into a lava pit, which of course causes him to get his "Vader suit". i dont know about you, but wont you get chills once you hear that famous Vader breathing?
primetime said:
No, the Emperor and Palpatine are one and the same. This is confirmed from the novellisations of New Hope and Return Of The Jedi. (ANH was written by George Lucas himself.) Lucas refers to the emperor as "Palpatine" and in the ROTJ novel, Luke calls him by that name too. There's also the slight giveaway that Ian McDiarmid who plays Senator Palpatine, was also the actor who played the Emperor in ROTJ. (Darth Sidious himself isn't credited in TPM and AOTC.)
I'd bet 50 bucks on all the following happening in Return Of The Sith.
1/ David Prowse stepping back into the suit. (Hayden Christiansen isn't tall enough to play Vader in the suit.)
2/ James Earl Jones providing the voice of Darth Vader again.
3/ Anakin killing Dooku in a duel manipulated into being, by Palpatine. (Who doesn't give a shit about Dooku, he just wants the"chosen one" as his apprentice; just as he didn't give a shit about Vader when he wanted Luke.)
4/ Anakin killing Windu and the several other Jedi Council members.
5/ Palpatine deliberatley causing Padme's death, so as to give Anakin enough nagative emotion to be manipulated into joining the dark side.
6/ Anakin throwing his old lightsabre at Ewan MacGregor and telling him to give it to Luke.
7/ Vader using his Force Grip on someone for the first time.
1/ David Prowse stepping back into the suit. (Hayden Christiansen isn't tall enough to play Vader in the suit.)
2/ James Earl Jones providing the voice of Darth Vader again.
3/ Anakin killing Dooku in a duel manipulated into being, by Palpatine. (Who doesn't give a shit about Dooku, he just wants the"chosen one" as his apprentice; just as he didn't give a shit about Vader when he wanted Luke.)
4/ Anakin killing Windu and the several other Jedi Council members.
5/ Palpatine deliberatley causing Padme's death, so as to give Anakin enough nagative emotion to be manipulated into joining the dark side.
6/ Anakin throwing his old lightsabre at Ewan MacGregor and telling him to give it to Luke.
7/ Vader using his Force Grip on someone for the first time.
Celtic_Emperor
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primetime said:
Yeah, thats pretty much a given. All I was saying is that in the movie Dooku personally was never refered to as Darth. Perhaps this serves a later purpose or they figured it didn't matter. Which it doesn't really.
As far as your say on Palpatine, well, thats what makes him my tie-favorite character. Theres nothing wrong with admiring genius, even if it is evil. Its just a movie. This is all why I would want Palpatine to actually fight in this one.
1- Its the last chance we'll ever have to see it, and
2- The only time we see his true power is when he's a withered old man,
and
3- Doing a scene with him fighting would only serve to show his greatness and sort of allow you to appriciate the character more, both in his younger years, and in his later ones.
I think that while he's done what he's done makes him probably the most important character in the series, I think it needs to be shown that he can get dish it out like the rest can. I think a problem with Lucas not doing this is that nowdays, and in the past, Palpatine has always been viewed as this withered old man. These new episodes are the only glimpse we see of anything of his past. It truely would be a shame, and even a crime in my opinion, to leave Darth Sidious/ Palpatine out of the action. At least this way, he can be immortalized as a owner AND a player. Not as just some old man thats a tyrant and sits in the seat of power pondering his long past golden years.
Emperor Palpatine puts the "War" in "Star Wars". I hope fans never forget that.
- Damien
Celtic_Emperor
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primetime said:
See? Looking back at it now, isn't it interesting how the Jedi having overlooked or underplayed Anakin's troubles is the same with Palpatine and the ewoks?
If you think about it, now that the pieces are together, its ironic, but both a holy order and a tyrannical empire were destroyed by the simplest of things. Whether that be a lack of anger management, or furry woodland creatures. 🙂
- Damien
Celtic_Emperor
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I know, so my point still stands. Nothing to it. Its not like I'm saying he's not called 'darth' at all.
- Damien
- Damien
Celtic_Emperor
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Alrighty then. 🙂
Whats something else to talk about...hmm...
Oh, I know! What would Star Wars be without ships! So my question is which starship (any class) is your favorite of all?
Even though the ship wasn't in the movies, it was in Dark Empire, which continues the story past Return of the Jedi. The ship is a new super class star destroyer and it is the Emperor's new command vessel. Its called the Eclipse. Anyone ever heard of it? Its the largest, most powerful, most armed and armored ship in the entire Star Wars Universe (excluding the Death Star which really doesn't count as a ship.)
I really like the ship designs for Star Wars and other sci-fi series, so I bought "Star Wars: The Essential Guide To Vehicles And Vessels" some years ago. The Eclipse is solid black.
Heres the specs for the Eclipse according to this book-
Length- 17.5 kilometers (twice the size of the original super star destroyer models. So thats about 10 miles long if I'm correct.)
Weopons compliment- 500 heavy laser cannons, 550 turbolasers, 10 gravity-well projectors, 1 super laser.
Starfighter compliment- 50 squadrons (600 ships) (Tie Interceptors), 8 squadrons (Tie Bombers).
Crew compliment- 700,000.
Troop compliment- 150,000.
Assault vehicle compliment- 100 (AT-AT Walkers)
Additional compliments- 5 prefabricated garrison bases.
Quite impressive, no? 😎
- Damien
Whats something else to talk about...hmm...
Oh, I know! What would Star Wars be without ships! So my question is which starship (any class) is your favorite of all?
Even though the ship wasn't in the movies, it was in Dark Empire, which continues the story past Return of the Jedi. The ship is a new super class star destroyer and it is the Emperor's new command vessel. Its called the Eclipse. Anyone ever heard of it? Its the largest, most powerful, most armed and armored ship in the entire Star Wars Universe (excluding the Death Star which really doesn't count as a ship.)
I really like the ship designs for Star Wars and other sci-fi series, so I bought "Star Wars: The Essential Guide To Vehicles And Vessels" some years ago. The Eclipse is solid black.
Heres the specs for the Eclipse according to this book-
Length- 17.5 kilometers (twice the size of the original super star destroyer models. So thats about 10 miles long if I'm correct.)
Weopons compliment- 500 heavy laser cannons, 550 turbolasers, 10 gravity-well projectors, 1 super laser.
Starfighter compliment- 50 squadrons (600 ships) (Tie Interceptors), 8 squadrons (Tie Bombers).
Crew compliment- 700,000.
Troop compliment- 150,000.
Assault vehicle compliment- 100 (AT-AT Walkers)
Additional compliments- 5 prefabricated garrison bases.
Quite impressive, no? 😎
- Damien
Celtic_Emperor
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I'm glad you asked. Here's what it says about the super laser on the Eclipse-
" The Eclipse was also intended to devestate entire worlds. Its main weopon was a superlaser weopon, although its power was only two-thirds that of the main weopon aboard the first Death Star- it was "merely" powerful enough to crack the crust of a planet rather than destroy it outright."
If you meant however the superlaser on the second Death Star, it is a modified version of the same thing. Its called Superlaser Mark 2. The difference is lower power comsumption, faster recharge rates, and precision targeting (for use against capital ships).
I love the superlaser weopons! As would any person impressived with their power. 😀
- Damien
" The Eclipse was also intended to devestate entire worlds. Its main weopon was a superlaser weopon, although its power was only two-thirds that of the main weopon aboard the first Death Star- it was "merely" powerful enough to crack the crust of a planet rather than destroy it outright."
If you meant however the superlaser on the second Death Star, it is a modified version of the same thing. Its called Superlaser Mark 2. The difference is lower power comsumption, faster recharge rates, and precision targeting (for use against capital ships).
I love the superlaser weopons! As would any person impressived with their power. 😀
- Damien
Dave2112
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I leave you guys alone for three freakin' days and you start up a Star Wars thread without me. Where's the love? 🙄
Ah....musings on Episode III...
I seriously doubt we'll get to see Palpatine involved in a lightsaber duel. He doesn't need to. This is a guy who takes over an entire galaxy by even manipulating other Sith Lords. As far as all the talk on titles and names and such regarding the Sith in the films...don't put too much stock in it. Many things will be revealed that explain some of this. Dooku was never once reffered to as "Darth" in EpII. Yes, some of the stuff they sell might say Darth Tyrannus on it, but then again, they made Luke Skywalker figures with a yellow lightsaber for a year, too. None of that counts.
Dooku was once a Jedi. This is the general difference between the Dark Jedi and the true Sith. Usually, a Dark Jedi has fallen or turned and has opened up to the dark side. Sith are trained from Day One in the raw power of the dark side, rarely having ever been Jedi. Of course, there's Darth Vader...but with no one else really available, it's easy to imagine Palpatine giving him the title. This would also explain Dooku's prescence without disrupting the "One Master, One Apprentice" dichtom of the Sith laid down after the Battle of Ruusan. Dooku was not Palpatine's apprentice in any case. He had turned while Darth Maul was still in training under Sidious/Palpatine (yes, the same...it's the whole point of the film).
It would be interesting to see an Anakin/Mace fight. But the one I'm really looking forward to is the one we know we'll see...Anakin vs. Obi-Wan. We already know that Vader wears the body armor and life support due to an earlier near-fatal duel with his former Master. My somewhat educated guess would be that Obi-Wan tries to keep Anakin away from the smuggling out of his children. This would have to be right as they're born, as we also know that Vader was unaware that he had a daughter. After his death, he appeared to Leia to apologize for everything (I think this was described in "The Truce at Bakura", but I could be wrong, it's one of those ones I read a long time ago), she basically snubbed him and he never appeared again. So, if Obi-Wan is trying to keep him from Padme as she's giving birth, and given Anakin's issues with females he loves (his slaughter of the Tusken village, his desire to rescue Padme rather than help Obi-Wan detain Dooku, etc.) this could lead to a nasty fight. It would also explain how he was unaware of Leia's lineage.
OPh, and to address the Ewok issue...
...they blow.
Ok, on to the nature of the Force that's been discussed. It takes a different turn if you've read the New Jedi Order novels, which has not only challenged but changed the understanding of the very nature of the Force. Yoda may have been misled about quite a few things. I don't really see Yoda as stupid, more set in his ways. He was 800 years old, after all. Things change as times evolve, and we often look at things we once thought we knew as unshakable as misguided rhetoric. The Earth was once flat and the center of the cosmos. We KNEW this. It was the fundamental cornerstone of our being. Now we look back on that as foolish. At the time, it was not. It was the KNOWN truth. So with the Force. A character in the NJO novels, an alien called Vergere, is at first the "pet" of the invading Yuuzhan Vong. Long (very long) story short, she is revealed to be an ancient Jedi, the last of the Jedi of the Old Republic...having infiltrated the invaders 50 years prior when they first skirted the edge of the galaxy. She teaches Jacen Solo the true nature of the Force, and the Jedi's greatest dirty secret...
...there is no Dark Side. There is only the Force. It is all. How the Force is used or manifests itself lies in the intentions and spirit of the wielder. The darkness is within. The old Jedi had no reason not to support thier Dark Side/ Light Side separation, as it was the Force as they understood it. When one gives into the "Dark Side", they are giving in to the dark, negative emotions we all carry. Even without the Force, once a being gives into his or her darkness, it tends to become addictive. Stock brokers, executives, leaders...we see it all the time. People gain things more easily when using devious, violent or uncaring ways. The more you get (possesions, victories, abilities, respect), the more you want. Now, add the ability to use the Force to that otherwise mundane psychological quirk, and you wind up with a real monster on your hands. It all in the intent. Once you get to a point where you can internally justify lying to the boss/using chemical weapons/killing with a lightsaber in order to get someone fired/control your population/gain access to NRI Planetary Defense Codes...you're going to keep doing it. This is what most likely led the dogma "Once you start down the Dark Path, forever it will rule your destiny." If you see something happen the same way a few hundred times, you can start to believe in two sides of the Force.
I've always thought the Force was something like this. Vergere briefly mentions Yoda's struggling with an early debate over this issue. One can assume that a Jedi like Qui-Gon Jinn may have been involved in this debate, being a teacher of the Living Force, thus creating some of the professional rift between himself and the Council.
This would also explain the ability of Luke to shun the Dark influence after basically adapting Vader's fighting style and generally going bat-shit on his ass. It's also noted in the novelization of Phantom Menace that Obi-Wan comes dangerously close to the Dark Side after seeing Qui-Gon fall and facing Darth Maul. Vader himself reddeemed his place in the Force at the end. This is no small task, as few beings in the history of the galaxy have had that inner resolve. But it is possible.
Kyp Durron explains that anger is another emotion. There are times when it comes out, sometimes in combat. It will manifest itself in the Force, as the Force is tapped into through one's emotions. Just because you unleash temporary rage against an enemy who just killed your friends or relatives doesn't neccessarily mean you're doomed to a life of ongoing anger. That choice is yours. A Jedi must be in touch with his emotions. All of them. They are all part of the same being, and make up the whole. Just as a Jedi may know fear, but show the real courage in facing it...he may know anger but show the real strength in directing it where it belongs.
Ok, Padawans....time for me to catch some ZZZzzz's. Good thread.
😎
Ah....musings on Episode III...
I seriously doubt we'll get to see Palpatine involved in a lightsaber duel. He doesn't need to. This is a guy who takes over an entire galaxy by even manipulating other Sith Lords. As far as all the talk on titles and names and such regarding the Sith in the films...don't put too much stock in it. Many things will be revealed that explain some of this. Dooku was never once reffered to as "Darth" in EpII. Yes, some of the stuff they sell might say Darth Tyrannus on it, but then again, they made Luke Skywalker figures with a yellow lightsaber for a year, too. None of that counts.
Dooku was once a Jedi. This is the general difference between the Dark Jedi and the true Sith. Usually, a Dark Jedi has fallen or turned and has opened up to the dark side. Sith are trained from Day One in the raw power of the dark side, rarely having ever been Jedi. Of course, there's Darth Vader...but with no one else really available, it's easy to imagine Palpatine giving him the title. This would also explain Dooku's prescence without disrupting the "One Master, One Apprentice" dichtom of the Sith laid down after the Battle of Ruusan. Dooku was not Palpatine's apprentice in any case. He had turned while Darth Maul was still in training under Sidious/Palpatine (yes, the same...it's the whole point of the film).
It would be interesting to see an Anakin/Mace fight. But the one I'm really looking forward to is the one we know we'll see...Anakin vs. Obi-Wan. We already know that Vader wears the body armor and life support due to an earlier near-fatal duel with his former Master. My somewhat educated guess would be that Obi-Wan tries to keep Anakin away from the smuggling out of his children. This would have to be right as they're born, as we also know that Vader was unaware that he had a daughter. After his death, he appeared to Leia to apologize for everything (I think this was described in "The Truce at Bakura", but I could be wrong, it's one of those ones I read a long time ago), she basically snubbed him and he never appeared again. So, if Obi-Wan is trying to keep him from Padme as she's giving birth, and given Anakin's issues with females he loves (his slaughter of the Tusken village, his desire to rescue Padme rather than help Obi-Wan detain Dooku, etc.) this could lead to a nasty fight. It would also explain how he was unaware of Leia's lineage.
OPh, and to address the Ewok issue...
...they blow.
Ok, on to the nature of the Force that's been discussed. It takes a different turn if you've read the New Jedi Order novels, which has not only challenged but changed the understanding of the very nature of the Force. Yoda may have been misled about quite a few things. I don't really see Yoda as stupid, more set in his ways. He was 800 years old, after all. Things change as times evolve, and we often look at things we once thought we knew as unshakable as misguided rhetoric. The Earth was once flat and the center of the cosmos. We KNEW this. It was the fundamental cornerstone of our being. Now we look back on that as foolish. At the time, it was not. It was the KNOWN truth. So with the Force. A character in the NJO novels, an alien called Vergere, is at first the "pet" of the invading Yuuzhan Vong. Long (very long) story short, she is revealed to be an ancient Jedi, the last of the Jedi of the Old Republic...having infiltrated the invaders 50 years prior when they first skirted the edge of the galaxy. She teaches Jacen Solo the true nature of the Force, and the Jedi's greatest dirty secret...
...there is no Dark Side. There is only the Force. It is all. How the Force is used or manifests itself lies in the intentions and spirit of the wielder. The darkness is within. The old Jedi had no reason not to support thier Dark Side/ Light Side separation, as it was the Force as they understood it. When one gives into the "Dark Side", they are giving in to the dark, negative emotions we all carry. Even without the Force, once a being gives into his or her darkness, it tends to become addictive. Stock brokers, executives, leaders...we see it all the time. People gain things more easily when using devious, violent or uncaring ways. The more you get (possesions, victories, abilities, respect), the more you want. Now, add the ability to use the Force to that otherwise mundane psychological quirk, and you wind up with a real monster on your hands. It all in the intent. Once you get to a point where you can internally justify lying to the boss/using chemical weapons/killing with a lightsaber in order to get someone fired/control your population/gain access to NRI Planetary Defense Codes...you're going to keep doing it. This is what most likely led the dogma "Once you start down the Dark Path, forever it will rule your destiny." If you see something happen the same way a few hundred times, you can start to believe in two sides of the Force.
I've always thought the Force was something like this. Vergere briefly mentions Yoda's struggling with an early debate over this issue. One can assume that a Jedi like Qui-Gon Jinn may have been involved in this debate, being a teacher of the Living Force, thus creating some of the professional rift between himself and the Council.
This would also explain the ability of Luke to shun the Dark influence after basically adapting Vader's fighting style and generally going bat-shit on his ass. It's also noted in the novelization of Phantom Menace that Obi-Wan comes dangerously close to the Dark Side after seeing Qui-Gon fall and facing Darth Maul. Vader himself reddeemed his place in the Force at the end. This is no small task, as few beings in the history of the galaxy have had that inner resolve. But it is possible.
Kyp Durron explains that anger is another emotion. There are times when it comes out, sometimes in combat. It will manifest itself in the Force, as the Force is tapped into through one's emotions. Just because you unleash temporary rage against an enemy who just killed your friends or relatives doesn't neccessarily mean you're doomed to a life of ongoing anger. That choice is yours. A Jedi must be in touch with his emotions. All of them. They are all part of the same being, and make up the whole. Just as a Jedi may know fear, but show the real courage in facing it...he may know anger but show the real strength in directing it where it belongs.
Ok, Padawans....time for me to catch some ZZZzzz's. Good thread.
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