The Star Wars Thread

[BigJim]

and the Jedi's greatest dirty secret...

...there is no Dark Side. There is only the Force. It is all. How the Force is used or manifests itself lies in the intentions and spirit of the wielder. The darkness is within.

Secret? I thought it was obvious from the beginning. The Force was always neutral, but altered in it's wavelength by the vibration of the person manipulating it. Thus someone with negative emotions would manifest the Force as low vibrational anger, vengeance etc and resonate more with a red coloured lightsabre, whereas green and blue ae both higher and faster vibrations than red.

As to the "is Dooku Palpatine's apprentice?" discussion, well I always assumed to be not an apprentice as such; because he was already trained and an adept with the Force; wheras Anakin will only be a partly trained Padawan by the time Palpatine sinks his hooks into him. I regard him (Dooku) as a Sith, but not an apprentice so much as a subbordinate to Palpatine.(As indeed Vader was in the latter days of the Empire.) Certanily I think he's more than just a Dark Jedi, because Palpatine refers to him as "lord". Him not using the word 'Darth' is nothing to think about really, because Palpatine doesn't mention that word once in the entire saga. He never refers to Vader as 'Darth', only 'my friend' or 'Lord Vader'.

 

[BigJim]

I'm glad you asked. Here's what it says about the super laser on the Eclipse-

" The Eclipse was also intended to devestate entire worlds. Its main weopon was a superlaser weopon, although its power was only two-thirds that of the main weopon aboard the first Death Star- it was "merely" powerful enough to crack the crust of a planet rather than destroy it outright."


If you meant however the superlaser on the second Death Star, it is a modified version of the same thing. Its called Superlaser Mark 2. The difference is lower power comsumption, faster recharge rates, and precision targeting (for use against capital ships). Damien

You talk about the second Death Star as if it was weaker than the first. According to official sources it was nearly twice as big and more than twice as powerful as the first. The only reason it might appear weaker, would be that Palpatine directed it against ships rather than a heavenly body. Of course if was being used against ships, it would take a lot less power per shot which would account for the fast recharge rate, during the Battle of Endor. Dave, can we have an official ajudication on this one?

 

[Dave2112]

The Death Star II superlaser is believed to have been designed to be more powerful than the first. Of course, this was never known to be true, as it never got a chance to unleash it's full power on a planetary body. Jim's pretty much accurate in saying that you'd use much less power to take out a capital ship than a planet. Why waste the energy and use a bantha to crush a walnut?

Jim, you're close on the lightsaber color thing, but it doesn't really have anything to with the alignment of the user per se. The given explanation (not in the films and only briefly ever hinted at in the books) is that the crystals used in crimson lightsabers were discovered when the Sith first organized in then-unknown space. It was found that they were unstable, but created a "higher frequency" mildly stronger blade than others...when infused with the Dark Side. There was a slight, but ever-present, chance that a red blade could "break" or overpower a blade with other crystals. This was used to explain why Kenobi lit his blade so slowly against Vader on the Death Star, it was a modulation adjustment to stabilize the blade. This was laid out in an extensive set of articles on lightsabers, lightsaber combat styles and other related things in Star Wars Insider. It's not really canon, but since the films or books haven't ever really explained color in blades to any real decisive end, it stands pretty well. Yeah, Adi Gallia had a red blade in some Star Wars games, but in the film it wasn't red. Never go by games. Comics hold a little more bearing, but they've contradicted the films on occasion. Yoda had a yellow lightsaber in a recent comic series, but the film proved that wrong. These thing happen.

 

[BigJim]

Yeah, Adi Gallia had a red blade in some Star Wars games, but in the film it wasn't red. Never go by games. Comics hold a little more bearing, but they've contradicted the films on occasion. Yoda had a yellow lightsaber in a recent comic series, but the film proved that wrong.

Yeah, it was Jedi Power Battles for the PSX if I'm not mistaken. On top of that, Plo Koon had a yellow one and Mace Windu's was blue, not purple. 😕 😕 😕 Interestingly enough, purple is even further up the scale than blue and green; so maybe that accounts for Windu's bad-assedness?

I think whoever wrote that book was seriously stretching out for science to explain smoething that is better explained by dramatic effects. If that had been a canon fact, then Luke's blade would have shattered in the Bespin duel, because it ignited instantly when he faced Vader the first time. Another thing that gets on my tits is people who write the support books, then state total fatuous shite in them. In one book, it was stated that the knob of metal on the end of Luke's first lightsabre was there as a blade length adjuster. To my knowledge this was never refered to once in any other source. (Except for that evil dude who experimented with the 2 metre blade.) It also says that the hilts would detonate if the crystals were'nt properly aligned inside. I think the author made all this up as they go along. As do the people who refer to lightsabres as "laser swords" or the Death Star's weapon as a "super laser". (Anakin was only 9 or 10 when he made this faux pas, so he doesn't count.) Both these weapons utilise energy that acts nothing like a laser beam is capable of doing. A laser beam can't hold itself in a static field like a lighsabre blade and it can't focus multiple beams into one, pause and then fire again as in the Death Star. It's more suggestive of super-heated plasma than a laser beam. The technology is known to create a field of stabilised energy that would act like a lightsabre blade though. The only two probs are that it's still not known how to generate a particular colour, (crystals could'nt actually help that because crystal refraction suggests manipulation of visible light like a laser beam, as opposed to something more advanced like plasma)and you'd need a portable nuclear reactor to power the damn thing.

No offence to you Celtic_Emperor, because you were'nt the one who dreamt those names up. Misinformed authors did. 🙂

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Actually

***

 

[BigJim]

Re: Actually

There actually wasn't any valid reason for Windu's sabre being purple. Very simply, Sam Jackson simply wanted to be able to distinguish himself immeaditly in the fracas at the end of the second one (big pit, Jedi council whoopin' ass).

Oh yeah, I know. I was just trying to think of a reason that would explain it within the story.

 

[Limeoutsider]

I want an orange light saber. I'd also like a green and blue one for backup.

 

[primetime]

man, i love this sutff!!! but here is something to think about. i have heard some silly things from fans. i find it amazing that they can criticize George Lucas for the way he wants to tell HIS story. i have heard from fans that Lucas doesnt know what he is doing and he should do this or he should do that. George Lucas can do whatever the hell he wants to do. it is HIS story. my opinion is, George Lucas' version is THE CORRECT version. whatever happens in the movies is the CORRECT way things unfolded. it is HIS story....fans can be funny sometimes....

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

No offense taken BigJim. Star Wars is Star Wars afterall. Its not exactly known for being scientifically correct. 🙂 And Dave, I know the superlaser mark2 is more powerful then the original. The description for the superlaser in that guide book was for the Eclipse. I never thought or assumed mark2 was weaker in any way, and I'm aware of how power settings can be changed for different targets. Whether that be a ship or a planet. 🙂 In fact, its just common sense an upgraded version would be more powerful. I suppose what may have tripped you up is that that passage from the Eclipse text was descriptive, and I didn't say much about the mark 2 system. Obviously if the Eclipse's superlaser is only powerful enough to crack the crust of a planet and kill everything on it, then it couldn't compare to any superlaser (used specifically to destroy a planet), especially mark 2. Although, for a highly mobile super star destroyer, that still is nontheless impressive. And with the Eclipse's weopons and fighter capacity, and the ability to keep enemy ships from hyperspacing away, it allows the Eclipse to engage entire fleets with little or no support. Its hull and shields were so strong that "it could ram enemy vessels without hesitation."

To quote the book- "The destroyer rivaled the Death Star in sheer manpower." Sounds good to me. 😀


- Damien

 

[Phineas]

...I would just like to say that not taking into account the NJO novels, which I utterly refuse to read, I'm probably as much of an expert on Star Wars as Dave. so nyah. 😀

I've read that the Sith crystals were synthetic. more power, but less stable.

on Count Dooku, his Sith knowledge was gained by the lone Sith Holocron in the Jedi Archives' storage. The big disagreement he had with the council was that Dookue felt it was possible to use both Jedi and Sith teachings together in the overall search for enlightenment, and that one should not restrict oneself to one form or the other. Naturally, the rest of the council did not take kindly to that.

is he Sidious' apprentice? well, he's definitely not the Master, but I don't believe he's the apprentice because he doesn't need any further teaching. jury's still out on whether Sidious aided in his decoding of the Sith Holocron, though.


...and I like Ewoks.

 

[Oddjob0226]

I LOVE Star Wars!

But...

Is anyone else getting the feeling that Lucas is making alot of this stuff up as he goes along? You know - it was all part of a planned 3 part trilogy? The 1st films were the middle installment of other films to come? It was all part of a bigger plan to make these movies?

I don't know about that. No doubt George had bigger ideas when he wrote Star Wars and had to do a smaller, trunchicated story for the 1st film, but with so many things added and taken away spurred by the apparent mood of the audience, the 3 part trilogy being whittled to just 2 trilogies - why, I remember the old days of '78 and '79 when there was talk of there being 12 Star Wars films! - the addition of little things here and there becomeing more important than they really should be.... I mean, why was a throwawy line about "the clone wars" in the 1st film made into such a big deal, but we never learn anything about, say, the spice mines of Kessel, or Ord Mandel, or Lando Calrissian, or the academy, ... on and on... Were miticloreans & Jar Jar Binks really in the first Star Wars stories back in 1975? Boba Fett, who started out as a small but colorful minor character now becomes a heavy player in the early story? And what about Ben Kenobi & Uncle Owen being brothers (read the book - which Lucas wrote)???

I ain't buyin' it. Lucas planned all this out? The guy who though Willow, The Ewok films and Howard the Duck were all good plans to go with?

But I love Star Wars. I was a fan back before it was "Episode" anything....

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I understand what you mean. It does seem like Lucas is just tacking stuff on. And I feel thats partly what caused these newer episodes to feel corny. The first three films didn't have this feeling, and even though cg has helped Lucas sell Star Wars now, I think cg has actually hurt the Star Wars brand. Indeed, in some ways, Star Wars ain't what it used to be.


- Damien

 

[Oddjob0226]

The first three films didn't have this feeling, and even though cg has helped Lucas sell Star Wars now, I think cg has actually hurt the Star Wars brand. Indeed, in some ways, Star Wars ain't what it used to be.

Exactly. I respect him completely, and am thankful for what he's given me, but for there to have been 12 films planned, then cut to 9, now cut down to just six becuase they managed to tell everything.... what about the post-fall of the empire stories that supposedly were going to be told, with the original Star Wars characters as they became older? Wasthat just B.S.? Something doesn't sound like it was very well planned at all there. Another example - Jar Jar was clearly put in to add more humor to an other wise fairly dark story (plus to make up for the lack of R2D2/C3P0 and Han Solo/Chewbacca interplay, as well as a way to bring in the broader, cruder humor that is more in vouge these days as compared to '77). Yet when fans hated him, his role was reduced. That stuff's not planned, that's re-writing, trying new things, self editing, and what not. It smacked of a gamble that didn't work, not a part of a bigger story that's been around since the mid 70s.

And you're right about the CG thing. I love the look of so much of these new films, but I also remember something I read in Entertainment Weekly before the Star Wars special edition came out. A SW fan club member saw a preview of the film and did not give it a good review. He mentioned that everyhting that Lucas CG'ed into the film was distracting - it either moved, floated, beeped or made some other noise which took your attention away from the rest of what was happening onscreen, had nothing to do with the plot and added nothing to the visual storytelling. And I have to agree. I thought it was cool seeing Boba Fett step into the Mos Eisley hangar with the big wormlike Jabba the Hutt, but all those jumping wamp rat-like creatures, the hovering droids, the big lumbering dewbacks that just didn't seem to move quite right..... didn't add anything for me.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Allow me to completely agree with you.

Furthermore, even though some circles might want to hang me for it, I actually prefered Yoda as a muppet. There was just this very earthly, live feeling from him actually being there physically, dispite the wirings, or hands up his a$$ or back.

It may seem impossible, but I actually think the visual quality of Star Wars has been dimimished somewhat over the years despite the advancments in CG technology.


- Damien

 

[Phineas]

guys, there was never supposed to be a third trilogy. that was just a rumor that got started, and Lucas has denied it numerous times over the years.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Even so, theres are still some unsatisfactory elements, and everything else aside from what you mentioned would seem to be true. I'm sure him and I aren't the only ones that feel that way.


- Damien

 

[Moses25]

guys, there was never supposed to be a third trilogy. that was just a rumor that got started, and Lucas has denied it numerous times over the years.

There is a premise for a third trilogy, Phin, but Lucas has said if they are ever made, he won't be at the helm.

Cheers.😀

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I don't know much about that, but if Star Wars were to be continued further, I get the feeling you'd have to pry it out of his dead hands first. With all due respect to Mr. George Lucas.


- Damien

 

[Moses25]

I don't know much about that, but if Star Wars were to be continued further, I get the feeling you'd have to pry it out of his dead hands first. With all due respect to Mr. George Lucas.
- Damien

Good point. He actually said that he would remain Executive Producer, but that's it. Screenplay, directing, etc. would fall to the task of somebody else.

I, for one, would not mind a third trilogy. Perhaps Peter Jackson is up for it?

Cheers.😀

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

What your saying is something I'm sure every fan would want, including perhaps Peter Jackson.

My question is, do you or anyone else know what this proposed third trilogy would be about, or where it falls in the time line? I'd like to know if I can, without it being spoiled for me or anyone else. Although one individual here expressed their distaste for Dark Empire if I'm reading it right, I would like to see the events of that series on the big screen. You know, the re-newed clone Emperor Palapatine, Leia Organa Solo as a Jedi, and Luke's new struggle.

The only problem with that is the actors that played those parts would be too old by the time the final plans were even concieved. I'm guessing the trilogy would take place somewhere inbetween the existing ones.


- Damien

 

[Moses25]

The only problem with that is the actors that played those parts would be too old by the time they final plans were even concieved. I'm guessing the trilogy would take place someone inbetween the existing ones.
- Damien

Actually they wouldn't, Damien (man, I love saying that name). The third installment would probably follow Timothy Zahn's trilogy with Admiral Thrawn as the principal antagonist. It's true, however, that new actors would be needed to reprise the roles of Han, Chewie, Leia and Luke (think we have a chance?), but it's a whopper of a trilogy and takes place almost immediately after the fall of the Empire (Ep.6).

Do you read any of the books, btw?

Cheers.😀

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

You can call me Damien then, I actually prefer being called by my real name. 🙂


And don't get me wrong, I would LOVE, absolutely love to see Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and even the great Harrison Ford one more time at least. I was just figuring in reality in my last post, because I figured this possibility isn't very likely, or that you wouldn't be able to assemble all of the original cast.

Ah yes, Admiral Thrawn.. I don't know much about him, but isn't he sort of like a rogue imperial leader that picks up the remnants of the empire and trys create a new one or restore the shattered one? I know what his physical appearance looks like, as he has been in pc games, and he is mentioned several times in this vehicles and vessels guide book I have. That would be a good idea, either one. I just feel its important for us to see the aftermath of ROTJ. But then again I'm biased, because I want to see the return of the Emperor, Leia finally as a Jedi, and to see the Eclipse super star destroyer in all its marvel. 🙂

Actually, no I don't. I only read the Dark Empire comic series. But I'd like to think I know just enough of the events past ROTJ to get the jist of whats going on.


- Damien

 

[primetime]

a new trilogy would be cool, but it wouldnt be Lucas. so to me, it would be "okay", but wont feel right. as for the current trilogy, the overall story was designed by Lucas before he made the 1st trilogy. but of course he had to tailor the story so that it connects well with the original trilogy. i am enjoying this new trilogy. i damn well cant wait till 2005. whatever Lucas tells in his story, i will go with that. anything that is Expanded Universe, i would be entertained, but i wouldnt call it the "gospel".

 

[Oddjob0226]

The only problem with that is the actors that played those parts would be too old by the time the final plans were even concieved. I'm guessing the trilogy would take place somewhere inbetween the existing ones.

- Damien

Well....according to my 1977 & '78 issues of Dynamite Magazine, the film were A.) not supposed to take THIS long to come out (20 years between trilogies? I know people live longer in the Star Wars universe, but please!) and B.) Were supposed to have - if they'd agree to it - some of the original Star Wars actors, reprising their roles, aged naturally & normally, playing out whatever adventure(s) took place in the New Republic.

I'll bet I'm the first person on the TMF to site Dynamite Magazine for it's newsworthiness. This is what my life has become.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Yes, I'm sure. Thats why I responded to Moses' quoting of me. Again, I would totally love to see Mark Hamill and the rest reprize their roles. The reason I posted what you and Moses quoted is because of the unlikeliness of it all. Perhaps I overstated what I said, and I didn't mean to. Perhaps its not unlikely. But it will be a question of whether or not the actors and actress would be willing to do it one more time. In my heart of hearts I believe they would do it, at least for the fans. Some of them could use the paychecks too. Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill have seemed to all but disappear, and have, since Star Wars, been considered 'B movie' actors.

Thank you for your knowledge of that magazine however. Its rather encouraging, and puts some hope in a third trilogy becoming a reality. 🙂


- Damien