Toons by "Redder" (X10)

[CheshireCatNY]

Anyone know what happened to this guy?

 

[CheshireCatNY]

Shiznititleshambammywammyslimmaslammajibbajabbajo...... :weird:

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I'll answer that question. 🙂

He became a christian and felt that drawing this material wouldn't help him in his search for spiritual enlightenment. He created a christian forum shortly after closing his site. Whether this forum is still active or what is unknown, or whether it belongs to him completely or he simply linked his old site to it, changing the address so that people would find the christian forum, and not the tickling page (which no longer exists). He pretty much explained how tickling had ruined his marriage, and how he wanted to get his life back in order. This was of course a final messege before the old site was gone and linked to the christian forum.

I'm not bull$hitting you, thats exactly what happened. And I must say, good for him! I'm happy for him, I really am. Its so wonderful that he's found Christ. :happy:

Although, its always a shame to lose a good talent such as him. It was in fact him that inspired my earlier works. I had a respect for the man then, and an even greater respect for him now. He made a huge sacrifice, and I'm sure he's being blessed immensely for it. :happy:

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Oh, and his first names' Jack by the way.

 

[nessonite1]

You are just a wealth of information, Vlad!
I dont think I've ever seen this guy's work before but he seems to be (seems to have been) an amazing talent. Thank you for sharing, CC! These pictures would be really fun to color I think.

 

[GEORGIATKLER]

Shiznititleshambammywammyslimmaslammajibbajabbajo...... :weird:

CAN I QUOTE YOU ON THAT, CC? LOL!

 

[TicklePinkFeet]

I'll answer that question. 🙂

He became a christian and felt that drawing this material wouldn't help him in his search for spiritual enlightenment. He created a christian forum shortly after closing his site. Whether this forum is still active or what is unknown, or whether it belongs to him completely or he simply linked his old site to it, changing the address so that people would find the christian forum, and not the tickling page (which no longer exists). He pretty much explained how tickling had ruined his marriage, and how he wanted to get his life back in order. This was of course a final messege before the old site was gone and linked to the christian forum.

I'm not bull$hitting you, thats exactly what happened. And I must say, good for him! I'm happy for him, I really am. Its so wonderful that he's found Christ. :happy:

Although, its always a shame to lose a good talent such as him. It was in fact him that inspired my earlier works. I had a respect for the man then, and an even greater respect for him now. He made a huge sacrifice, and I'm sure he's being blessed immensely for it. :happy:

How the hell can tickling ruin a marriage? Lol

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

@ Ness- Well, I was just paying attention and keeping tabs on this guy. Anyone could have done that. LOL ^^

Yes, his character designs and especially his penmanship were extrodinary. Perhaps he still still draw, just not tickling and fetish stuff.

@ BLONDELOVER-

Simple- The fetish might very well have taken presidence over his marriage and relationship with his wife. He may have pressured her to do things, etc., to a point where enough was enough. From what I understand, his wife left him over it.

And as part of his final messege, he warned others of the dangers and for them not to let it happen to them and their relationships.

In any event, he had marital problems over this and when they split up, he found the Lord and hopefully he's in a better way now. Who knows, maybe they got back together after he reformed. :happy:

@ everyone-

My mistake, his first name is Jake, not Jack.*

 

[tkrexx]

At any rate, I love his work. Just one problem with it...There's not enough of it.

Rxx

 

[rajee]

Outstanding work by Jake Redder! I hope he's found what he was looking for or atleast learned from the journey. 😀

 

[CheshireCatNY]

Damn!! DAMN! DAMN! DAMN!!....lost another one to the fascist and prejudicial brainwashing powers of organized religion...ANYTHING outside of missionary style sex between a married man and woman is considered evil with them.....along with anything "not nice"....which includes some of the greatest innovations and breakthroughs in mankinds history which were deemed as "blaspheomy" and destroyed or erased from all existence, single handedly setting us back 1000 years as a species. (Unless of course the church took the credit for the new ideas rather than wipe them out)

Did you know the ancient Greeks had harnessed steam power and even locomotives by the time the christians came around to destroy it all? Historians predict that if that hadnt happened, we would have been on the moon before the turn of the 19th century!!!

I find it hard to follow a book of prayer that is so inconsistent and been altered by so many people to meet various personal ends or to hide aspects that may question their validity of "supreme power". Their are over a 100 different variations on the same original book for those who don't know, not including other denominations within Catholicism. If anyone gets a chance, read the book "The Davinci Code" about all the theories and uncovered facts about the bible. Did you know after analyzing the original painting of the Last Supper, directly to the right of Jesus was originally painted Mary Magdalene and shown pregnant?!?! Yeah they werent an item.......suuuuuuuuuuuuure....

Or the true story the movie "Stigmata" was based on about the scripture found in the desert that read something like "The house of god is not in a structure of wood or stone, it is in the heart of man" Basically it meant people didnt have to physically go to church to follow gods way. It was established as written by Jesus himself, but because it challenged the FINANCIAL empire that is the Catholic Church, it was deemed as blaspheomy and a few even blamed other religions for forging it in hopes to "sabotage" them. CARBON DATING PROVED IT WAS FROM THE TIME OF JESUS' LIFESPAN!!! Shows you where their priorities are......power and control over a better understanding of their own faith...

I wouldnt be suprised if Jake found christianity first and THEN was convinced of how tickling was "ruining" his marriage........I made the mistake of telling a Born Again Christian friend about my fetish once.....the entire freakin' church group decided it was their goal to "save me"!!!!....

I think I've already said WAY to much...I'm not attacking anyones beliefs or right to choose their faith. Religion is a vital part of society and life, just saying that most organized religions seem to share one aspect...they think they're completely right with little to no basis on reality or fact, just what some people came to believe thousands of years ago (when we still believed the world was flat and that we were the center of the universe), but are willing to ruin entire civilizations, exterminate, opress and torture millions upon millions of good, honest, innocent people (remember the Spanish Inquisition?) just for a difference in beliefs and the indefinite halt of the advancement of humanity beyond religious dogma all just to prove that "my god can beat up your god".......

This is why I"m buddhist....NO GODS!!! And its very foundation is the tolerance of others despite their differences.....you'll never see Buddhists lynching or hanging anyone for not following their beliefs. This is also because its more philosophy than religion....more Religions should be treated like a philosophy, a guide to living your life to its fullest and happiest without screwing with anyone else AND THATS IT!!!

aw man....I rambled again....although I stand by my position........I can't help but worry about the fuse I just lit...

 

[nessonite1]

Ramble away, CC,it's allowed. 😀
I think it's very sad myself that the poor man convinced himself that he had to choose. That a balance could not be struck between his interests andhis newly found spirituality. But if he is happier choosing one over the other then that's what's important. It's just a shame that he couldn't find a middle ground.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I'm pretty sure he had a spiritual epifhony, which was sublime. It had nothing to do with religion just because it was Christ. It would have been no different if it had been a calling to buddism. The God figure/figures aren't what matter in this instance. Its the calling, the attraction and a spiritual experience.

He saw the truth, the unique truth about him- that continuing to live this way was a past he no longer could live.

I think the remarks you two are making are rather selfish. You see it as a shame simply because he was a talented artist for the TICKLING community and now he's gone. Its bias and you know it.

Why can't you simply be happy for him and nothing more?

If I ever leave this community I know it will be because of this reason. And no one can accuse me of it being because of outside pressure or religious dogma. I know in my heart and soul and my connection with God that it has nothing to do with that. I've experienced so many blessings and spiritual things in my lifetime that cannot be denied. I know for a fact God exists and that if He ever called me away from this "atmosphere" there would be a good reason for it, and its most likely because He has plans for me. I know He does. And that fills me with so much joy and so much hope. :happy:

CC, I hope buddism works out for you. Because as it is, you don't seem very enlightened or at peace. You seem too quick to jump on something you don't agree with and tear it apart, and your views seem as though you live in the past. If you don't mind my saying so, I feel so much rage and anger and spite in you, and conflict and confusion as well. I hope you find what you need and want in your beliefs and that they make you a better person. I genuinely do. If it makes you feel better, if I wasn't a christian, I would most likely choose to be a buddist. Alot of the principles aren't much different from what I already believe.


This is something to celebrate about, not nash our teeth at. Again, good for Jake Redder. :happy:

 

[nessonite1]

Not selfish at all, Vlad. I am quite happy for him that he found what it is that made him more satisfied with his life. I'd say the same for him no matter WHAT it was he chose to give up. My only comment is that it's a shame a balance couldnt be struck. Of course it isnt my place to judge and it'd b impossible to understand the meaning behind anyone's choice in lifestyle. So hey, a toast to the dude and whatever makes him happy, eh? 🙂

 

[ShadowTklr]

I would have to agree with you, Nessonite. As I said in another thread, my wife and I had been pretty good correspondence buddies with the artist CB. One day, he sent us a long letter (this was before the internet) explaining how he had found Christ and needed to cease and desist his affiliation with tickling because it was considered sinning against God.

The thing is, God doesn't tell anyone how to behave or that engaging in sexually provocative thought or expression is sinful. Religion does that, through direct mandate, or influence. I'm not saying that's what happened in Jake Redder's case, but if I had to bet, I think my odds would be really good.

It is a shame that religion disallows the co-existence of humanity and spirituality without the burden of guilt, and the threat of damnation or spiritual abandonment.

 

[CheshireCatNY]

I'm pretty sure he had a spiritual epifhony, which was sublime. It had nothing to do with religion just because it was Christ. It would have been no different if it had been a calling to buddism. The God figure/figures aren't what matter in this instance. Its the calling, the attraction and a spiritual experience.

He saw the truth, the unique truth about him- that continuing to live this way was a past he no longer could live.

I think the remarks you two are making are rather selfish. You see it as a shame simply because he was a talented artist for the TICKLING community and now he's gone. Its bias and you know it.

Why can't you simply be happy for him and nothing more?

If I ever leave this community I know it will be because of this reason. And no one can accuse me of it being because of outside pressure or religious dogma. I know in my heart and soul and my connection with God that it has nothing to do with that. I've experienced so many blessings and spiritual things in my lifetime that cannot be denied. I know for a fact God exists and that if He ever called me away from this "atmosphere" there would be a good reason for it, and its most likely because He has plans for me. I know He does. And that fills me with so much joy and so much hope. :happy:

CC, I hope buddism works out for you. Because as it is, you don't seem very enlightened or at peace. You seem too quick to jump on something you don't agree with and tear it apart, and your views seem as though you live in the past. If you don't mind my saying so, I feel so much rage and anger and spite in you, and conflict and confusion as well. I hope you find what you need and want in your beliefs and that they make you a better person. I genuinely do. If it makes you feel better, if I wasn't a christian, I would most likely choose to be a buddist. Alot of the principles aren't much different from what I already believe.


This is something to celebrate about, not nash our teeth at. Again, good for Jake Redder. :happy:

Yeah, sorry for flipping out like that. I've just had a lot of bad dealings with the catholic church and most organized religions in general. I was always way to intelligent for my age but it was always a burden, being fully aware of the state of the world and the turmoil we were in while all my friends were playing with Pogs (remember Pogs?) and reading comic books, without a care in the world.......

For the record...I stood and cheered when Sinead O'Conner ripped up the picture of the pope on Saturday Night Live. They've always been aware of the child abuse by priests and chose to stay quiet...

The main problem we have is to get rid of this ego-driven mentallity that many religious people have where anyone who doesnt follow that one persons religion, MUST be "saved" and forced to "see the light" for their own good, wether they like it or not....its white mans burden all over again....it sickened me when I heard that there was a case (around 5-7 years back) where two christian missionaries who were sent to give aid to the starving people in an African country were actually witholding food and medical care until they accepted Jesus!! CAN YOU GET ANY MORE DELUDED!?!? Yeah, like that episode of Southpark, it was based on a true story. (The episode with the return of "Starvin Marvin" where he finds the alien spaceship.)

Christianity and any religion for that matter works great until it becomes a financial or even political foundation. I think it was best explained in the movie Dogma, on how religion as an idea is great on an individual person to person basis, but put into practice with a structure and rules and it can only lead to ruin....

And also I'm glad we're talking again Vlad.... 🙂 really sorry for starting shit with you (yes I'm admitting it now).....despite all thats happened I've always held you in the highest regards and respected you as an artist and skilled debater, LOL. I've been going through more in the past months than most would want to believe......been feeling like a raw nerve....

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I see you are taking responsibility for this, as you've editted your first post to include at the end- " I can't help but worry about the fuse I just lit..."

That right there proves to me you were willing to step back, look at what you said and see the negative that was present in it. Its much more responsible, and it shows me alot.

My only issue though is with this becoming a religious issue. It didn't need to go there and you totally took my honest answer and turned into a religious bashing and/or possible discussion.

All I mentioned was that he found Christ, and I feel I explained what that entails adequately. Christ is not about religion, he's about a way of life. The fact he touches people spiritually like this, in this very example of Mr. Redder, is further proof of not only divine intervention, but spiritual healing. People these days are so unwilling to look beyond the surface. "Why did this person need help?! There was nothing wrong with them!" etc, etc, but perhaps Jake needed this. Perhaps he was to be taken away from this just so he could see what he was doing with his life and improve upon it. Its not that this was wrong or evil, it was just obviously holding him back, and it even cost him his marriage. In the end he wasn't saying "I've been doing something horrible all these years!", he just basically said "this isn't for me anymore", and we should respect that and leave it at that.

At some point he discovered more of himself. He learned to appriciate himself more as a human being and to expand on his life. In fact, this has nothing to do with religion, as I've already stated, alot of it has to do with self-realization and spiritual development. As spiritual development (as you should know as a buddhist) helps heal and strengthen not only the spiritual, but the mental and physical, even the psychological.

While Jake has found Christ for the first time and I've had the benefit of knowing him all my life, I can say that the Lord works in mysterious ways and I don't know why he was called, I can only say that I'm certain its a good thing and will lead him towards further goodness.

I don't see this as a loss at all. I see it as a continuation, a journey. He needed to move on, and maybe it took God to nudge him a bit so he could actually do it. Alot of people become so complacent that they fear change. And when theres a door, a window of opportunity they grimace at it because they are afraid of losing what they have. But this is God we're talking about. Nothing bad comes from Him, and how fortunate for Jake that he felt spiritually motivated and touched. Its the strongest motivation there is. No pep talk, no rousing, no speech can compare to the internal touch of a divine experience. I'm sure if you asked him himself to explain why, he probably couldn't. Thats how awesome spiritual experiences can be. You don't necessarily know at first why this is happening to you or why you should listen to it, all you have is the feeling. And that feeling is never wrong when its coming from God. And as time passes, His plan for you will become more evident and things will be as they should.

Jake Redder is on his way to a better life. And perhaps his artistic skill will better suit him whereever he is lead. Sometimes your life will take a complete turn-around. So many people are afraid of venturing forth.

" Do not be afraid, I am with you."- Jesus Christ :happy:

As for you and me personally, its ok now. I forgive you. We were both being immature jerks and our pride was getting in the way of ever patching things up. And it seems we have both been having hard times lately, personally speaking, so its understandable why either of us would be on edge. But we are both good men and we are both willing to acknowledge that. I've thought about you too and there are things I regret as I'm sure theres things you regret. But honestly, thats behind us now, and I'm glad we've come to terms. :happy:

I believe it was this experience, this exchange, and this topic especially that was set before us so we could recover what we had lost, or perhaps gain something we never had- a friendship.

 

[CheshireCatNY]

I see you are taking responsibility for this, as you've editted your first post to include at the end- " I can't help but worry about the fuse I just lit..."

That right there proves to me you were willing to step back, look at what you said and see the negative that was present in it. Its much more responsible, and it shows me alot.

My only issue though is with this becoming a religious issue. It didn't need to go there and you totally took my honest answer and turned into a religious bashing and/or possible discussion.

All I mentioned was that he found Christ, and I feel I explained what that entails adequately. Christ is not about religion, he's about a way of life. The fact he touches people spiritually like this, in this very example of Mr. Redder, is further proof of not only divine intervention, but spiritual healing. People these days are so unwilling to look beyond the surface. "Why did this person need help?! There was nothing wrong with them!" etc, etc, but perhaps Jake needed this. Perhaps he was to be taken away from this just so he could see what he was doing with his life and improve upon it. Its not that this was wrong or evil, it was just obviously holding him back, and it even cost him his marriage. In the end he wasn't saying "I've been doing something horrible all these years!", he just basically said "this isn't for me anymore", and we should respect that and leave it at that.

At some point he discovered more of himself. He learned to appriciate himself more as a human being and to expand on his life. In fact, this has nothing to do with religion, as I've already stated, alot of it has to do with self-realization and spiritual development. As spiritual development (as you should know as a buddhist) helps heal and strengthen not only the spiritual, but the mental and physical, even the psychological.

While Jake has found Christ for the first time and I've had the benefit of knowing him all my life, I can say that the Lord works in mysterious ways and I don't know why he was called, I can only say that I'm certain its a good thing and will lead him towards further goodness.

I don't see this as a loss at all. I see it as a continuation, a journey. He needed to move on, and maybe it took God to nudge him a bit so he could actually do it. Alot of people become so complacent that they fear change. And when theres a door, a window of opportunity they grimace at it because they are afraid of losing what they have. But this is God we're talking about. Nothing bad comes from Him, and how fortunate for Jake that he felt spiritually motivated and touched. Its the strongest motivation there is. No pep talk, no rousing, no speech can compare to the internal touch of a divine experience. I'm sure if you asked him himself to explain why, he probably couldn't. Thats how awesome spiritual experiences can be. You don't necessarily know at first why this is happening to you or why you should listen to it, all you have is the feeling. And that feeling is never wrong when its coming from God. And as time passes, His plan for you will become more evident and things will be as they should.

Jake Redder is on his way to a better life. And perhaps his artistic skill will better suit him whereever he is lead. Sometimes your life will take a complete turn-around. So many people are afraid of venturing forth.

" Do not be afraid, I am with you."- Jesus Christ :happy:

As for you and me personally, its ok now. I forgive you. We were both being immature jerks and our pride was getting in the way of ever patching things up. And it seems we have both been having hard times lately, personally speaking, so its understandable why either of us would be on edge. But we are both good men and we are both willing to acknowledge that. I've thought about you too and there are things I regret as I'm sure theres things you regret. But honestly, thats behind us now, and I'm glad we've come to terms. :happy:

I believe it was this experience, this exchange, and this topic especially that was set before us so we could recover what we had lost, or perhaps gain something we never had- a friendship.

I never re-edited the post...that disclaimer at the end was always there. And I never really meant religion itself was bad, just in the hands of those who would use it poorly, specifically believing that everyone should believe the same thing......or die and "burn"......(my vision of hell is slightly backwards and influenced more from my scandanavian background....an icy realm where you remain frozen for all eternity to dwell on your sins in life.....wow thats a tangent...) I can't deny that there are those who need Christianity to find their purpose or simply to achieve a sense of peace however. Obviously I was drawn towards Buddhism because I do indeed have some issues with frustration and irritability (I definitly need some inner peace and tranquility)....that and my logic-soaked brain seemed to find the most sense in it. There was a lot less to disbelieve...no ancient tales of gods and monsters, miracles, leaps of faith and the like, just a Philosophy written by a man with an actual documented birth record who emphasized the powers of the mind over matter to overcome the pure misery that is life. Now aint that pretty damn realistic for a religion? They actually teach you right away that life is pain and suffering and theres really no way to avoid it, but there is a way to navigate through it and still have a happy life without messing with anyone else.

I guess I should feel bad that I can't just have faith for the sake of having faith. It'd be nice to believe in something without having to need an explaination or ask why....thats just the way I am. I'll tell ya one thing though man, if the truth ever does come out about all these church cover-ups and conspiracies going all the way back to J.C. himself, I believe the financial empire that is the Catholic Church (the Vatican in a nutshell) will crumble to the ground, but in the end it will benefit Christians better than anything they could have done for themselves. They'll be free to worship god as they see fit and live their lives based on what THEY believe to be right or wrong. Because in the end isnt that all that really matters? Personal attonement? I mean, a lot of christians avoid sin only because they're afraid of hell, not because THEY JUST SHOULDNT DO IT!!! I mean they should teach you that you just shouldnt do it because its wrong, not that a firey damnation awaits you if you do. I mean that really is just common sense, isnt it?

People should be allowed to choose to their own visuals; see God as female or Jesus as a black man, hell they can see Moses as an Armadillo if they want, as long as they still follow the same ideas and concepts at the foundation of the faith, treating others well and living a good life...

I personally always found Christianity to be threatening and intimidating while refusing to explain or justify any of their actions, only that it was "gods will". But to each his own I guess, some people need that sense of authority hanging over their heads (quite literally, LOL)......I wish Redder the best of luck and just hope that it wasnt religion that convinced him tickling was evil....that was the thought that erupted this whole chain to begin with...

I just hope he isnt fooling himself. You really think he can just "turn it off"? You may not realize this Vlad, because as you said you are not really a tickling fetishist. For many the tickling lifestyle is truly a deeply buried psychological part of our very being like an itch that MUST be scratched. He may go through the rest of his life secretly wishing to indulge but constantly reaffirming himself of its "evil" content......its a frightening thought, being forced to live a lie and deny who you really are for fear of persecussion, isnt it?

PS: I am not assuming full responibility for what went on between us, only admitting I acted very poorly and rudely on my part. But yes, let us let bygones be bygones shall we?

 

[Ticklekiller1]

Hey, y'all. I'm just gonna cut-in briefly here and say that it isn't the tickling that's evil, it's the lust and lust can pretty much be linked with almost anything whether it's a foot, a feather, a tickle or whatever. It's the lust that turns the object of interest into a sexual fetish and such fetishes are a form of obbsession and obbsessions are bad for anyone. Obbsessions blind us and drag us down. I don't know about the rest of you but, I've learned that a lot of acts that are sinful really do lead to hurt or sadness sooner or later. Kind of makes ya wonder... Maybe God IS real and really is looking out for our best interests. You should consider Vlad's testimony because that is exactly what it is. He has had a personal, spiritual experience for which there is no proof according to the 5 senses but, that doesn't make it not real. Humans are much more than they feel. There are deeper feelings and higher states of consciouness that most of us aren't even aware of except those few who eventually calm down and begin to listen. You'd be surprised at what you may discover when your mind and heart are open to your sense of spirituality. It's there. You merely have to uncover it.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

@ CC-

I don't feel like getting into it again, but I'll vouch safe in saying that your appraisal of how the catholic church is is heavily influenced by how you personally feel. As an outsider with an outside opinion based more on history in the old world, I don't think what you're saying is fair at all, especially considering how things really are.

As someone who has been a member of the catholic church since childhood, I can tell you from personal experience that a great deal of the evils you accuse the church of are rather general, vague, and out of touch with the church of today. Its simply not like that, period.

Again, you are living in the past. You readily admit to your shortcomings, emotionally, you're a short fuse (I can be too), and I feel your opinion of how things are in the church of today is a shortcoming. Its not nearly as severe as you make it out to be. In fact, its not severe at all. People aren't subjected to what you seem to think we are subjected to. If you were here you would see that. But you're not, so maybe you could consider that before you ever bring it up again.

Christians are among the most liberated people on the planet in faith and in practice of that faith. End of story.

And I know you aren't taking full blame, because I didn't accuse you of it being all your fault. Although I have kept a good memory of the events, and its a fact that 80% of the situations that happened were instigated by you, or you and a third party. Thats just factual, but it doesn't absolve me from involvement. I feel thats important for you to know, that I'm taking responsibility for even letting myself argue with you.

Again, that itself is in the past. I think we should end this discussion now though. I don't like where its going, and it never should have been. If you follow this through to conclusion, continuing it only degrades the thread, which is in honor of a man, who coincidentally, is seeking personal betterment. We'd do well to stop here while we're on a high note.

@ Ticklekiller- Very well said, thank you for saying it. 🙂

 

[CheshireCatNY]

@ CC-

Christians are among the most liberated people on the planet in faith and in practice of that faith. End of story.

And you just prooved my point perfectly....thank you Vlad.... 🙄

a few points:

1.) Why in gods name do you have to pick out every little negative part of a post but never would even consider acknowledging the good? My last post was pretty damn apologetic of the original and I conveyed my gripe wasnt with the church itself but with those who force it onto others. But of course, as expected, like clockwork you jumped up on that soapbox you carry around with yourself and turned it into anti-religious propoganda. Really TRY reading the damn post next time......

2.) I was also raised Catholic, Irish Catholic for that matter which is more unforgiving than most...

3.) Living in the past? And you say people are not subjected to the kinds of things I talk about? HAVE YOU WATCHED THE NEWS AT ALL IN THE PAST FEW YEARS?!!??! What about whats going on right now with the Catholic Church's stranglehold on Ireland? Man.....you really think all this stuff ONLY happened in the past? Now whos deluded?

4.) I'm sorry man, but your quote above was one of the most small-minded things you've ever said. I'm not challenging your faith or right to follow it and I'm not debating that Christ touched your life and now you're a more complete person becase of it, I'm just saying that many, many, MANY people had to go through a hell of a lot more "liberation" and suffering than you guys....get off the high horse....to cause pain is human. Christians were persecuted by those who did not understand them, than persecuted others for not being understood......its all an endless cycle of violent misunderstandings and theres really no way to tell who made the first strike....

5.) Throughout EVERYTHING I always stated that this was my personal view, not to be confused with mandated commands that I believed EVERYONE should follow. I only wanted to be heard with an open mind. Nothing more. Now on the other hand your comment above pretty much falls under the category of mandate.....

 

[Ticklekiller1]

It's not the Christians, Ches. It's man. It's all of us. We always persecute when we don't have or understand all of the details. It's one of our many flaws, fear of the unknown or misunderstood. I respect your feelings and sympathize with your hurt and anger over the persecutions and horrors that some Christians have done to others but, the wrong that they did came from the flesh, not the spirit.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

@ CC- And you proved mine. Checkmate. Theres nothing small-minded about that quote at all. Its being optimistic while not denying a problem. I'm so sorry I can't share your disdain and persecution, your malice and your spite. I'm not denying the state of the world, but I'm not blaming religion, faith, or God because none of these tihngs are the problem. Sorry, so sorry.

@ Ticklekiller- Thats really true actually. I'm glad someone is trying to be neutral here, like me. It really is the people, and these routers are in every religion, of every country, of every tongue. Its not just exclusively a christian problem. There is chaos everywhere, and its this balance of good and evil that keeps things going.

In a perfect world there would be no evil, but in a perfect world free will would still exist. So in a perfect world, of which there is not one, you're always going to have these problems. And its a shame when people feel they have to make an unnecessary rant out of it on little more than a whim. We certainly don't need it rubbed in our faces continually in one form or another.

We're not on this forum to discuss that. This thread was taken off topic, and thats a shame. And after this, I doubt it can be brought back to what it was without a price.

 

[CheshireCatNY]

@ CC- And you proved mine. Checkmate. Theres nothing small-minded about that quote at all. Its being optimistic while not denying a problem. I'm so sorry I can't share your disdain and persecution, your malice and your spite. I'm not denying the state of the world, but I'm not blaming religion, faith, or God because none of these tihngs are the problem. Sorry, so sorry.

Okay.....now read this one really really slowly..... I never said the religion itself was the problem, I'm saying its a human error......like most of the worlds problems.........damn we suck.....LOL

I also never said you had to share my "disdain and persecution, malice and spite".....I have my reasons for being against it, as you do for being for it....its merely and opinion....I realize when I used the word "proove" I was misleading, but really I was just making a reference....

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Then as I said in my first reply, I hope buddism can lead you on the path to self healing, healing of all the negativity stiring within you then and now. You've undoubtedly experienced something horrible, and probably couldn't do anything about it then. So you're lashing out now, in rebellion, and its led you elsewhere.

It makes perfect sense, and I don't hold it against you. I've thus far lived a good christian life filled to the fullest in joy. I'm truely sorry you never got to experience christianity as it really is. 🙁