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Very importand!!!!SOS

:blink Now THAT is eerie.

BTW - I feel like teetotal crap for not voting "Yes" in that thread. Had I known more of the details, such as what you described, I wouldn't have gone with "undecided".

I take it the Turks are completely unrepentant for these crimes?

There are those that do feel bad like Orhan Pamuk, Taner Akcam and Fatma Gocek, but on the whole no, they claim the Armenians are just lying and that they are inferior to Turks (alot of them use the term "raya" meaning cattle)
 
And that's why you're an uncouth yokel.



It always comes back to people who seem to just not understand that other human beings have feelings. As you point out, RedMan, there are a good many people with Armenian decent here in the states. Heck, you even pointed out to me once that the Kardashians are an Armenian family.

All of these people have feelings and it's a crime that so many folks here in the "Land of the Free" can't let our Armenian-American population be free from grief.



It would piss me off too!

I see your point, same thing I've noticed when people refer to French Americans as well, people very often make derogatory remarks, regardless of how many French were treated brutally during WW2, in addition the Gypsies are another example, they just don't get the liason that other nations and people who suffered faced

In addition for more famous US Armenians : System of a Down, Cher (father is Sarkisyan), Mr. Rogers, Paz Lenchantin, Zildjian and Sabian cymbal owners (Zildjian and Sabian is Armenian), Ken Davitian, Derek Sherinian (of Dreamtheater), Djivan Gasparyan (the musician for the Gladiator film), William Saroyan and of course the mighty George "Maddox" Ouzounian

And as to that other time, I still feel really bad going off on you, I know now you didn't mean anything rude or discriminatory that time, I assumed you did as lot of people have started on Armenians, but I realise that my assumption was incorrect and for that I apologise
 
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Yes he is : Mosesian is his birthname

Մոսեսյան in the Armenian alphabet (yes I speak it)
 
Small comment. There is no need to insult people just because we disagree with them.
Explain yourr viewpoints politely. No need to call people yokels or the likes.
 
I think you have a point. Compare the amount an American student learns about WWII to what he/she learns of WWI, even. America didn't come soaring in to save the day and become everyone's all-time heroes in WWI, so, at least in my experience, it's kind of glossed over. I can remember a teacher specifically saying that at the time, it was called "The Great War," but that, looking back, it was not so bad compared to WWII. I no longer believe that. Death tolls were huge and deaths were grisly; there just weren't as many Americans involved.

On the converse, I've met a good number of Europeans whose knowledge of Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, and even Columbus is limited compared to mine. Granted, that's also true for many Americans, but most of what I know of those guys, except maybe Franklin, is what I learned in school.

I don't have the same feelings on history, I love learning about it, but I can see your point of view. And I think, despite the occasional indignant puffery, the majority think the same way. There are countries all over the world whose young population has chosen largely to move forward and embrace "progress"- even a little materialism- instead of apprehending the criminals among them, whose victims are still quite alive. The future always trumps the past, it seems. Maybe that's why the human race still exists.

On the other hand Germany has had to address its history pretty directly, and has done a stunning job of it. Both privately and publicly. And who knows, but I daresay their society has benefited from it.
I would also say that not dealing with these things, especially as they get further and further in the past, is inviting them to happen again. Period. Explain it how you want, point out all the other things we could be doing with our time and money, doesn't matter: if crimes aren't punished, they continue to happen. Sadly, though, I believe crimes like this will always happen, whether they are punished or not.

of course,all crimes must be paid for and we can all learn valuable lessons from other's mistakes including the mistakes made in history but we cannot (how do I say this) live in the past,no umm brood over it.We eventually have to move forward and let it go.I think that's the best way I can describe my feelings on the subject.
 
And that's why you're an uncouth yokel.



It always comes back to people who seem to just not understand that other human beings have feelings. As you point out, RedMan, there are a good many people with Armenian decent here in the states. Heck, you even pointed out to me once that the Kardashians are an Armenian family.

All of these people have feelings and it's a crime that so many folks here in the "Land of the Free" can't let our Armenian-American population be free from grief.



It would piss me off too!

why because I don't think like you and have a mind of my own
 
why because I don't think like you and have a mind of my own

Then tell us your opinion, tell us why its so wrong to recognise what happened to 1.5 Million wome and children, events that stole Western Armenia away from Armenian, events which still affect them, and how just recently Hrant Dink an Armenian living in Turkey was killed for talking about the Genocide
 
Then tell us your opinion, tell us why its so wrong to recognise what happened to 1.5 Million wome and children, events that stole Western Armenia away from Armenian, events which still affect them, and how just recently Hrant Dink an Armenian living in Turkey was killed for talking about the Genocide

No,I don't have a problem recognizing the events in history,I just don't understand why they want our recognition of it and I don't want to send our troops over there to fight their dictator or whoever is in charge to make him let the country talk about it and recognize it and I know that's not what this bill is asking;it just wants a recognition of the events but it has absolutely nothing to do with our own country so why are we spending time on that ''issue'' when we have so many others to address?
 
No,I don't have a problem recognizing the events in history,I just don't understand why they want our recognition of it and I don't want to send our troops over there to fight their dictator or whoever is in charge to make him let the country talk about it and recognize it and I know that's not what this bill is asking;it just wants a recognition of the events but it has absolutely nothing to do with our own country so why are we spending time on that ''issue'' when we have so many others to address?

Because how do you think Armenian Americans feel, America called it a Genocide in 1915, now they wuss out and deny it, no one wants the US to come over there, in fact most Middle Easterners are tired of America coming anywhere near there

The US provides for Turkey to deny because Turkey gives them loads of cash and allows military operation (in short War for Oil)

Why not deny the Holocaust to appease far right wing Nazis in Russia then
 
Because how do you think Armenian Americans feel, America called it a Genocide in 1915, now they wuss out and deny it, no one wants the US to come over there, in fact most Middle Easterners are tired of America coming anywhere near there

The US provides for Turkey to deny because Turkey gives them loads of cash and allows military operation (in short War for Oil)

Why not deny the Holocaust to appease far right wing Nazis in Russia then

First of all I think we all get the fact it was most likely a Genocide but in all fairness I was not even born at that time.Secondly,the Holocaust actually had something to do with the US.I personally think this is a petty argument compared to getting our troops back home,how to get out of the debt our country is in and avoiding another depression.Those are the things that need our attention right now.Once,our country is stabilized then,we can talk about calling it a Genocide or not or be neutral to the decision so that we just avoid the argument and please everyone whatever Obama wants and Congress votes on,I suppose.
 
First of all I think we all get the fact it was most likely a Genocide but in all fairness I was not even born at that time.Secondly,the Holocaust actually had something to do with the US.I personally think this is a petty argument compared to getting our troops back home,how to get out of the debt our country is in and avoiding another depression.Those are the things that need our attention right now.Once,our country is stabilized then,we can talk about calling it a Genocide or not or be neutral to the decision so that we just avoid the argument and please everyone whatever Obama wants and Congress votes on,I suppose.

How was the US more involved with the Holocaust?
 
How was the US more involved with the Holocaust?

Sorry,I checked on a fact and realized that happened in Europe when I thought it happened around here because generally in my classes we were only taught things that happened in the US.Anyway I did even more thinking on the whole issue and I thought to myself why spend so much time on the issue,stories not only change over time but they get dramatized and we can't fix anything that happened or make it right even if we changed a few things in a text book or called it this or that it doesn't change what happened.I think we need to live in the here and now and realize we have starving children,a failing court system,soldiers fighting a war we can't pay for,debt we can't pay back,soaring high crime rates,over crowded prisons amongst just a few problems and we are sitting here fighting over what we should call something.Call it whatever you want who cares it doesn't change what happened or fix the fact that it happened.
 
QBBM said:
it just wants a recognition of the events but it has absolutely nothing to do with our own country so why are we spending time on that ''issue'' when we have so many others to address?

... wow.
 
Holy shit... Marie, did you just seriously say you thought the Holocaust happened in the US!?
 
Small comment. There is no need to insult people just because we disagree with them.
Explain yourr viewpoints politely. No need to call people yokels or the likes.

ah the Knightly Gentleman strikes again..i agree with him..
 
Sorry,I checked on a fact and realized that happened in Europe when I thought it happened around here because generally in my classes we were only taught things that happened in the US.Anyway I did even more thinking on the whole issue and I thought to myself why spend so much time on the issue,stories not only change over time but they get dramatized and we can't fix anything that happened or make it right even if we changed a few things in a text book or called it this or that it doesn't change what happened.I think we need to live in the here and now and realize we have starving children,a failing court system,soldiers fighting a war we can't pay for,debt we can't pay back,soaring high crime rates,over crowded prisons amongst just a few problems and we are sitting here fighting over what we should call something.Call it whatever you want who cares it doesn't change what happened or fix the fact that it happened.

Paying, my God, you just "Hey, we recognise it, it sucks, peace", thats what it means to recognise things, Armenia doesn't want anyone's help, the US in anycase is close with Georgia and Azerbaijan that treat them like crap

Dramatacisation, what like the photos of kids and women''s corpses, the remains, the testimonials of the people who survived right after they saw all of that, must I direct you to pictures and testimonial : http://www.ermeni.org, lick on English and read
 
See... I always wondered where the world's view of us came from. As a kid I thought that the "dumb American" thing was unfair. Hey, we're smart folks, right?

Then sometimes I find out about someone, or read or hear what someone says and I have to realize that no...

There really are people in the US of A who seem to either don't have the wits about them to understand, or just don't care about learning enough to know how important world events past and present are.

There really are dumb Americans. I feel so bad.
 
Paying, my God, you just "Hey, we recognise it, it sucks, peace", thats what it means to recognise things, Armenia doesn't want anyone's help, the US in anycase is close with Georgia and Azerbaijan that treat them like crap

Dramatacisation, what like the photos of kids and women''s corpses, the remains, the testimonials of the people who survived right after they saw all of that, must I direct you to pictures and testimonial : http://www.ermeni.org, lick on English and read

more like,we understand that tragic events happened in the past but may we now look to the present to accomplish some problem solving before our country goes down the drain!
 
Wow......Marie must have ditched her "History" class a few too many times.

eh,not really ditched,just didn't care to hear about Indians for the 50th time.We,learned mostly about the Indians and the American court system but this was just a blond moment for me lol.Please excuse me for it.
 
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