-
If you would like to get your account Verified, read this thread -
Check out Tickling.com - the most innovative tickling site of the year. -
The TMF is sponsored by Clips4sale - By supporting them, you're supporting us. -
>>> If you cannot get into your account email me at [email protected] <<<
Don't forget to include your username
Whom Should I Tickle First? [*/Fx7] [Soles]
Kalamos
Level of Lemon Feather
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 12,892
- Points
- 63
Well, I *did* post a freaking new pic, over a week ago.
That thread got 8 posts. Four were mine.
Yeah, I'm bitching now guys.
Why should artists post new pics when all they get is just a pat on the shoulder from the same old pals?
No wonder some of us turn commercial; at least they get paid for it.
...
Whatever.
That thread got 8 posts. Four were mine.
Yeah, I'm bitching now guys.
Why should artists post new pics when all they get is just a pat on the shoulder from the same old pals?
No wonder some of us turn commercial; at least they get paid for it.
...
Whatever.
Celtic_Emperor
3rd Level White Feather
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2002
- Messages
- 9,620
- Points
- 0
Kalamos said:
Welcome to my world. At least how it works here, on this website, anyways.
Though some of my threads may be ignored for a completely different reason(s) than yours may be.
Learn to settle even though you deserve more. Thats what I did and it doesn't bother me as much as it used to (or not at all depending). I realize and accept what I can and cannot expect from this community as far as posts and acknowledgement and I adapted to it by not expecting as much even though elsewhere I'm used to more of everything.
LOL, this is like being an obscure b-actor in one place and an a-list celebrity actor in another. Its about adapting.
By this first (to my knowledge) verbal/typed display if aggitation on your part, perhaps you have not (adapted that is).
Also, be prepared to accept that by wanting more or feeling you deserve more or speaking out about it or showing any frustration, some people are going to think you're arrogant or completely selfish and self-centered. Its part of the double-edged sword package that comes along with it. Either way you lose because you look like you're whining, and they don't understand your legitimate frustration.
Ironically, this often has very little to do with the quality of one's art (since lesser artists sometimes get their fair share of replies). So its not a quality issue.
I almost wish it were, because then things would be far more balanced and replies would be based more on artistic merit and skill and effort. And in that way, you "earn" your replies as you progress, they aren't necessarily dealt out randomly or out of any pity or simply kind, hollow gesture.
Artists like you and me are at the top yet at the bottom while those at the bottom are at the top. Learn to adjust and your problem will go away. It can't be the same everywhere, and I don't expect it to be.
Last edited:
Kalamos
Level of Lemon Feather
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 12,892
- Points
- 63
Har har har, world's coming apart. Vlad and I, agreeing on something.
😀 😀 😀
Nay, not my first sign of "agitation". More like disappointment actually.
But more upfront, as a sign, than others.
I started deleting my own pics for private reasons; kept when I realised my pics weren't meant to stay there, for anybody to pick.
If my [or anybody's] pics are worth watching, they are worth commenting on.
...
I like fellow artists commenting on my pics - but I'm not really drawing for them alone.
I'd be sharing stuff over mail. Not posting pics over forums.
...
Self-centered, now, self-centerd I *am*.
No sense denying that.
I am selfish.
And arrogant. To a point. 😉
I am *not* stating that my pics are oh_so_good and they *deserve* praise.
I am saying that it's ludicrous bumping dead threads up, while newer pics sink into oblivion, under your own nose.
...
Maybe we should start *selling* our stuff, instead of giving it out free of charge.
You are too shy to comment, then you are too timid to complain.
😉
😀 😀 😀
Nay, not my first sign of "agitation". More like disappointment actually.
But more upfront, as a sign, than others.
I started deleting my own pics for private reasons; kept when I realised my pics weren't meant to stay there, for anybody to pick.
If my [or anybody's] pics are worth watching, they are worth commenting on.
...
I like fellow artists commenting on my pics - but I'm not really drawing for them alone.
I'd be sharing stuff over mail. Not posting pics over forums.
...
Self-centered, now, self-centerd I *am*.
No sense denying that.
I am selfish.
And arrogant. To a point. 😉
I am *not* stating that my pics are oh_so_good and they *deserve* praise.
I am saying that it's ludicrous bumping dead threads up, while newer pics sink into oblivion, under your own nose.
...
Maybe we should start *selling* our stuff, instead of giving it out free of charge.
You are too shy to comment, then you are too timid to complain.
😉
Celtic_Emperor
3rd Level White Feather
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2002
- Messages
- 9,620
- Points
- 0
What you've just said echos things I've already had to think about. And unfortunately alot of it has to do with how they percieve us artist types. To them, I'm sure we come off as looking fragile or fussy or too high maintainance. And thats true, alot of the time.
Artists are an asset to the world at large, themselves, and the world around them. God forbid that what is truely a selfless act (in drawing to begin with) would mean that sometimes, as you put it, we are dissapointed. We want to do for ourselves and others but we get nothing in return.
"Well what are you doing EXPECTING for there to be something in return!" someone might say. Well, its not so much expecting something or demanding it. I suppose its assuming the art will bring people together in word or at least thought. It doesn't always work out that way, and I understand that. Whats supposed to be a selfless act does indeed become selfish because it feels as though you have no one else to share it with or no one is hearing you in which ever way you've expressed yourself with that piece.
If those "voices" are simply not there or making themselves heard, then you ARE alone in your thoughts and the only one to truely reap the benefit of the art's bounty is..you...the artist.
We can expect that our friends will have something to say and thats nice to know. But like you said, if we meant for this to be just for our friends alone we will have approached it a different way.
I suppose a real artist is never satisfied. How can they be? They continually outdo themselves and strive for further personal greatness. For those of us who have this gift naturally it seems like second nature, and yet we are slowed by own thought processes.
Basically, I can sum art up as an artist this way-
We have a gift, and in whatever capacity we are using it, we want to do it for ourselves and also share it. Perhaps the worst feeling in this endeavor however is having something to share but feeling like there is no one there to share it with.
I stand by the belief that some people are born artists, while others merely learn to be. Theres a mentality artists possess, a way of thinking. Like a brain child or golden boy, we are often wired different upstairs in such a way that marks us different from the others. Our creative energy is overshadowed by our humanity. Perhaps this is a cruel trick, but perhaps it is what makes art so essential to our lives.
Ah well, whatever.
I agree though. Old topics, and I mean OLD topics (with this one just being an example) should be left alone to be admired or whatever in silence. Its the newer ones or the pictures that have since improved that need the attention.
I can't say much about this however, since its only happened to me a few times I can remember.
As for selling our stuff, I suppose that depends in what manner you mean that. I'm not sure how you do things, but I've done commission work and thats ok. I don't have to "sell" anything of mine when I draw this way and make some money. I'm not really looking to make money with my art. In fact, I don't want to sell it away to anyone. Its mine to keep and mine to share, provided we are talking specifically about the original carbon copies. Prints and such would be fine.
I have been approached by community e-magazine type publications (sort of like how MTP works), but in working with something like that, you give up a certain ammount of your freedom and you aren't allowed some of the other liberties you would otherwise have if you worked independantly on your own.
Ideally thats what I'd like to do. I don't want to work through some middle man or publication and have to pay him anything. If my art is made to sell, it will be by my own hands and dealings. I'm the artist, writer, editor, etc, all in one. Thats ideal, albeit cumbersome.
I'm far more concerned with backing up my copyrights and having them registered at this point than selling anything.
Artists are an asset to the world at large, themselves, and the world around them. God forbid that what is truely a selfless act (in drawing to begin with) would mean that sometimes, as you put it, we are dissapointed. We want to do for ourselves and others but we get nothing in return.
"Well what are you doing EXPECTING for there to be something in return!" someone might say. Well, its not so much expecting something or demanding it. I suppose its assuming the art will bring people together in word or at least thought. It doesn't always work out that way, and I understand that. Whats supposed to be a selfless act does indeed become selfish because it feels as though you have no one else to share it with or no one is hearing you in which ever way you've expressed yourself with that piece.
If those "voices" are simply not there or making themselves heard, then you ARE alone in your thoughts and the only one to truely reap the benefit of the art's bounty is..you...the artist.
We can expect that our friends will have something to say and thats nice to know. But like you said, if we meant for this to be just for our friends alone we will have approached it a different way.
I suppose a real artist is never satisfied. How can they be? They continually outdo themselves and strive for further personal greatness. For those of us who have this gift naturally it seems like second nature, and yet we are slowed by own thought processes.
Basically, I can sum art up as an artist this way-
We have a gift, and in whatever capacity we are using it, we want to do it for ourselves and also share it. Perhaps the worst feeling in this endeavor however is having something to share but feeling like there is no one there to share it with.
I stand by the belief that some people are born artists, while others merely learn to be. Theres a mentality artists possess, a way of thinking. Like a brain child or golden boy, we are often wired different upstairs in such a way that marks us different from the others. Our creative energy is overshadowed by our humanity. Perhaps this is a cruel trick, but perhaps it is what makes art so essential to our lives.
Ah well, whatever.
I agree though. Old topics, and I mean OLD topics (with this one just being an example) should be left alone to be admired or whatever in silence. Its the newer ones or the pictures that have since improved that need the attention.
I can't say much about this however, since its only happened to me a few times I can remember.
As for selling our stuff, I suppose that depends in what manner you mean that. I'm not sure how you do things, but I've done commission work and thats ok. I don't have to "sell" anything of mine when I draw this way and make some money. I'm not really looking to make money with my art. In fact, I don't want to sell it away to anyone. Its mine to keep and mine to share, provided we are talking specifically about the original carbon copies. Prints and such would be fine.
I have been approached by community e-magazine type publications (sort of like how MTP works), but in working with something like that, you give up a certain ammount of your freedom and you aren't allowed some of the other liberties you would otherwise have if you worked independantly on your own.
Ideally thats what I'd like to do. I don't want to work through some middle man or publication and have to pay him anything. If my art is made to sell, it will be by my own hands and dealings. I'm the artist, writer, editor, etc, all in one. Thats ideal, albeit cumbersome.
I'm far more concerned with backing up my copyrights and having them registered at this point than selling anything.
Hungarian21
4th Level Yellow Feather
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,999
- Points
- 0
🙄Another one of those foot-long posts made by Vlad; his back. 😛
Celtic_Emperor
3rd Level White Feather
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2002
- Messages
- 9,620
- Points
- 0
When you've got something to say, you've got something to say. I don't know why I should have tried to contain any of that to just a paragraph. It wouldn't have been enough to express myself fully.
And if you cannot express yourself fully, then why are you even bothering? While its true I could have gotten across the same messege with less words, I didn't want to. If folks want to read it they can, if they don't whatever. Thats the way its always been.
Its the people that give me credit for my posts that are the ones that read them, I gather. While I do not post to get a pat on the back from them, it is comforting to know that while lengthy, my posts have that necessary substance.
I'd much rather ensure that than to speak only a few words only to second guess myself and retract statements I will not have thought through to conclusion.
Too perplexing perhaps for the average man. 😛
And if you cannot express yourself fully, then why are you even bothering? While its true I could have gotten across the same messege with less words, I didn't want to. If folks want to read it they can, if they don't whatever. Thats the way its always been.
Its the people that give me credit for my posts that are the ones that read them, I gather. While I do not post to get a pat on the back from them, it is comforting to know that while lengthy, my posts have that necessary substance.
I'd much rather ensure that than to speak only a few words only to second guess myself and retract statements I will not have thought through to conclusion.
Too perplexing perhaps for the average man. 😛
Kalamos
Level of Lemon Feather
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 12,892
- Points
- 63
Art no longer belongs to us once we release, publish, sell or regale it.
It's part of us just as a drop of blood or a tear from the eyes is still part of our body.
...
Woah, that was some striking image.
...
So...?
Just give me the money guys.
Past is past, might as well get some cash from it.
😉
...
This represents my opinion in this particular moment.
It is by no means representative of...
Ah, sc*rw it.
We know I'll be changing mind in a while.
But money is good nonetheless.
...
Mmm...
It's part of us just as a drop of blood or a tear from the eyes is still part of our body.
...
Woah, that was some striking image.
...
So...?
Just give me the money guys.
Past is past, might as well get some cash from it.
😉
...
This represents my opinion in this particular moment.
It is by no means representative of...
Ah, sc*rw it.
We know I'll be changing mind in a while.
But money is good nonetheless.
...
Mmm...
Celtic_Emperor
3rd Level White Feather
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2002
- Messages
- 9,620
- Points
- 0
If thats the way others want to see art once it is offered as being shared to others, that it becomes theirs too, then thats something I've never disagreed with. Its what they do with it that concerns me. And as always, with any creation, copyrights are there as an insurance policy.
Mmmmm....copyrights......mmaraahhaaarghhhhh*drools like Homer Simpson*
Mmmmm....copyrights......mmaraahhaaarghhhhh*drools like Homer Simpson*
Celtic_Emperor
3rd Level White Feather
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2002
- Messages
- 9,620
- Points
- 0
And its that creative effort and time spent drawing that is worth protecting legally. It would be nice if we didn't have to and we could simply trust our creations (whether in picture form or not) to everyone else to share in spirit without them potentially wanting anything more than that, but its simply not that way.
Too many people are looking to get ahead at someone else's expense.
Too many people are looking to get ahead at someone else's expense.
Last edited:
Celtic_Emperor
3rd Level White Feather
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2002
- Messages
- 9,620
- Points
- 0
If I were going to charge and it wasn't a commission I was doing, it would probably be for access to my (presumed) site. I'm not sure if I would fix it where you're paying for membership and everything else is free or membership is free, but the extras and access to the material is not. Its almost the same thing, but not really.
I was figuring that if I go all the way with one of my mangas that I'd feature it on my personal website. As I said, whether or not I'd charge for it is something to consider. I could make money, but its nothing you get rich off if. Its pocket money really. Unless you're charging like 20 bucks a month or something like some sites charge for access to their material.
Alternatively, I've thought about e-mail attachments and doing business through e-mails, wherein a site is not completely necessary (only would need art sites to advertize and those already around and I'm on them) and the rest would be them paying me and me sending the issue(s) they ordered via said attachments.
I think its more convenient for both sides that way. They don't have to worry about group or site memberships, they don't have to do any surfering or searching (as I'll have a list on these advertizement sites of the issues and how much they cost), and I don't have to worry about sending them the carbon copy and thus giving my artwork which I love to someone else and never seeing that piece again.
Also, there would be no cost for printing, paper, presses, etc. They get the entire issue in a simple zip file and I don't have to worry about inventory and aspects of business like that.
I was figuring that if I go all the way with one of my mangas that I'd feature it on my personal website. As I said, whether or not I'd charge for it is something to consider. I could make money, but its nothing you get rich off if. Its pocket money really. Unless you're charging like 20 bucks a month or something like some sites charge for access to their material.
Alternatively, I've thought about e-mail attachments and doing business through e-mails, wherein a site is not completely necessary (only would need art sites to advertize and those already around and I'm on them) and the rest would be them paying me and me sending the issue(s) they ordered via said attachments.
I think its more convenient for both sides that way. They don't have to worry about group or site memberships, they don't have to do any surfering or searching (as I'll have a list on these advertizement sites of the issues and how much they cost), and I don't have to worry about sending them the carbon copy and thus giving my artwork which I love to someone else and never seeing that piece again.
Also, there would be no cost for printing, paper, presses, etc. They get the entire issue in a simple zip file and I don't have to worry about inventory and aspects of business like that.
Last edited:
Sablesword
TMF Master
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2001
- Messages
- 790
- Points
- 18
Kalamos said:
Heh. Replace "artists/pics" with "authors/stories" and that could be me making the same bitch.
nessonite1
3rd Level White Feather
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2003
- Messages
- 9,517
- Points
- 0
Kman...maybe the reason no one sees your pics is cause you tend to hide them within an existing thread in the RP forum? Just a thought. ^^
Kalamos
Level of Lemon Feather
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 12,892
- Points
- 63
Well... I put the RPG-related pics under the history section, so I don't really expect casual viewers to stop by.
😀
My tk pics can be seen under the art forum.
I just delete them after a couple of weeks.
And most of my tk pics are also available over my tk group.
...
I mean... we're working free here. At least, I am.
How was working for MTP like? 🙂
...
If my [our] pics are worth watching, they are worth looking for. 😉
My rationale is: if it takes a [mild] effort to locate them, people will be more likely to say something, just to express disappointment or joy.
Making it too easy for users to find them, takes the pleasure of discovery away.
Plus, I am mischievous.
And I just hid something right under your nose.
Or maybe not.
😀 😀 😀
😀
My tk pics can be seen under the art forum.
I just delete them after a couple of weeks.
And most of my tk pics are also available over my tk group.
...
I mean... we're working free here. At least, I am.
How was working for MTP like? 🙂
...
If my [our] pics are worth watching, they are worth looking for. 😉
My rationale is: if it takes a [mild] effort to locate them, people will be more likely to say something, just to express disappointment or joy.
Making it too easy for users to find them, takes the pleasure of discovery away.
Plus, I am mischievous.
And I just hid something right under your nose.
Or maybe not.
😀 😀 😀
