Yanneilucia's judgement

[yanneilucia]

Dear yanneilucia,

You have received an infraction at TickleTheater - Adult Tickling Community.

Reason: Cartoon child porn
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Explicit cartoons of underage-appearing characters are not allowed to be posted here. Please see rules at http://www.tickletheater.com/showthread.php?t=19286
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This infraction is worth 3 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://www.tickletheater.com/showthread.php?p=647148
Quote:
... it will all go well!
All the best,
TickleTheater - Adult Tickling Community
__________________
Valerie



Important links: Forum Rules - Clip Posting Rules
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...
This is what I got by PM.

All of you are aware of my contributions to this point and my will to continue contributing. Be that by searching and posting other artist's work or making my own and sharing. I have always tried my best to satisfy everyone's wishes and demands. And what I get in return is this...

In this post above I am accused cartoon child porn. Which would mean I have posted images of characters under the age of 18 depicted in sexual manner.

I will not stand for this as I am not the first nor the last who does this (if it can even be proven by such lousy-written rules). There are so many images of such characters posted all over the site all of the time. And now a finger has been pointed in ME.

I call for everyone who has ever been visiting my threads to post a protest here. If you are not cowards or hypocrites, you will do this.

And I call for the admins to post a link to the place where I supposedly committed my acts of disobedience. All the same, if you are not cowards or hypocrites and you can stand behind what your accusations, you will do this.

 

[Kocho-kun]

i really like your armpit thread (and also feel super guilty for having posted only like once in it ^^') but ya i understand the whole 'no minors thing'

....yes it may only be armpits lol but, ya know
just shrug it off dude, its just cuz it was such a high profile thread probably.

 

[Excess]

If I may ask, do you remember of what character the alleged underaged pics were of? Because I'm pretty sure if you cut off anything under 18 there'd be A LOT of pics cut from the whole forum.

 

[Kocho-kun]

haha ya basically the only thing we really have to go on is how developed their chest is XD

 

[yanneilucia]

If I may ask, do you remember of what character the alleged underaged pics were of? Because I'm pretty sure if you cut off anything under 18 there'd be A LOT of pics cut from the whole forum.

Exactly. Tell that to the admins.
I have no clue which image they considered underage. I just posted from my armpits folder in order they were. And I know I have seen a lot of flat chested girls who have more than 18 (Rachel Alucard). Also characters like Misty, which are underage but look older due to some chest.
The rules written are horribly unclear and the admins rights to punish an individual they don't like are a slap to the site's face.

 

[Excess]

Exactly. Tell that to the admins.
I have no clue which image they considered underage. I just posted from my armpits folder in order they were. And I know I have seen a lot of flat chested girls who have more than 18 (Rachel Alucard). Also characters like Misty, which are underage but look older due to some chest.
The rules written are horribly unclear and the admins rights to punish an individual they don't like are a slap to the site's face.

Eh I had a few guesses just based on some of the posts. And yeah a lot of the highly-demanded pokemon girls are underaged. In fact a lot of them don't even have much in the chest department, not that chest size is really an accurate determinator.

Personally I say the main determination is a combination of body type. It's generally pretty easy to tell an obviously underaged female from one that isn't. Body shape, hip size and such for instance is the best indicator. But there really aren't many certainties.

That said, the implication of 'loli' is a hot button sometimes when called such. It probably doesn't help that you have 'loli armpits' and 'loli feet' in your profile.

 

[U.N.Owen]

The rules are really not that confusing, and are usually applied pretty consistently. They do NOT mean that every picture of Misty has to go.

No photos of minors, period. And basically, cartoons of minors are allowed as long as they don't have nudity or sex acts (including foot worship).

So, many of the cartoons people are talking about are here because they're allowed.

The mods should tell the OP which pic triggered the complaint, though, or he won't know what the problem was.

 

[yanneilucia]

Eh I had a few guesses just based on some of the posts. And yeah a lot of the highly-demanded pokemon girls are underaged. In fact a lot of them don't even have much in the chest department, not that chest size is really an accurate determinator.

Personally I say the main determination is a combination of body type. It's generally pretty easy to tell an obviously underaged female from one that isn't. Body shape, hip size and such for instance is the best indicator. But there really aren't many certainties.

That said, the implication of 'loli' is a hot button sometimes when called such. It probably doesn't help that you have 'loli armpits' and 'loli feet' in your profile.

No. This absolutely won't do. I am not going to by subjected to other person's opinion on that. Their judgement on the image MUSN'T be subjective, for that would mean that their personal opinion is of more value than mine.
I demand a PROPER and PRECISELY written rule I can follow without exceptions.

For I can't tell which one of these are allowed and which are not.
(to admins: take into consideration all of them were found on tickletheater befoer giving me some more restriction points)

 

[Kocho-kun]

EDIT: ^ yeah that dude's art style is completely confusing when trying to guess age

yuni, i had to remove that post because it was questionable, honestly i just do what they tell me to and i really dont care to do otherwise and get in a fight with someone bigger than me.

i dont want you to go and i'll support you in whatever way i can as this forum permits.

(and yes it is annoying when you get in trouble for something and you are not informed as to what 'specifically' was the cause). Inform yuni (as i was) of what pictures are considered to appear underaged if you must and take it from there.

??? ...i dunno, i'm just trying not to rub anyone the wrong way

 

[James1]

Wish I could lend support in the validity of your thread, but if certain images are considered to be lewed and underage, then I can imagine that its the Admin's responsibility to question it.

As for not being informed over which images are drawing that line, alot of people said it; just ask. Would be a shame to lose contributions, but its also treading on a slippery slope over something as simple as just removing the offending images.

 

[AnimeWatcher1]

Perhaps it's just a case of mistaken identity, since a common thought is "If it doesn't have breasts, it's underage". Ask Valerie or one of the other Admins if they can identify the pic/post you got the infraction with. Odd though, don't they normally send a request for you to remove the offending post/pic? (I don't know as I've never posted anything like that)

The rules are really not that confusing, and are usually applied pretty consistently. They do NOT mean that every picture of Misty has to go.

No photos of minors, period. And basically, cartoons of minors are allowed as long as they don't have nudity or sex acts (including foot worship).

So, many of the cartoons people are talking about are here because they're allowed.

-points over to the Artist's Pad- Take a look through some of those and you might be surprised. A lot of pics on the TT seem to go unnoticed, some even praised by a lot of people publicly, when they're obviously against the rules.

 

[TickleMonkey1]

The rules are the rules, though. Just because some people manage to sneak some by, it doesn't mean it should be open season for everybody.

If it involved nudity or a sex act with a character that appears to be a minor, I'm fine if it got pulled. Should some others get pulled? Probably, but that doesn't mean Yanne's shouldn't have been if the ones in question were violations.

Just my $.02, though. Don't know if the originals actually deserved to get pulled or not, but our admins here seem like a pretty decent and rather open/forgiving group, so I'm alright trusting their judgment on these cases.

 

[U.N.Owen]

-points over to the Artist's Pad- Take a look through some of those and you might be surprised. A lot of pics on the TT seem to go unnoticed, some even praised by a lot of people publicly, when they're obviously against the rules.

Do you mean that there are pics with nudity and/or sex acts, or just that there are pics of underage characters? Cause my point was that, by the rules, pics of underage characters are only banned if they have nudity and/or sex acts.

 

[FeatherDaemon1]

That said, the implication of 'loli' is a hot button sometimes when called such. It probably doesn't help that you have 'loli armpits' and 'loli feet' in your profile.

Yeah, that certainly isn't helping the situation.

I do agree that there is some confusion on what is acceptable and what isn't. The Digimon tickling scene is out there and was broadcast on TV. So some people feel that anything goes and that is clearly not the case.

It is annoying having to dodge the loli images all over the place - not just here but everywhere. Just put tickling into a Google search and you see what comes back.

I'm sure that the mods wanted to keep this a private issue, but perhaps having this come out in public really is a service to what is allowable and what isn't. The mods have made their judgement. This is their forum and website. You really have little cause for pushback.

 

[Bashiku]

Hmmm as far as I know Valerie has always been just, but I have to stand by Yanne too, cause he is mine! Plus he gave all he had to give the public what they wanted. If anyone should be at blame, it should be someone in our ranks. Yanne was just a tool to create those pictures, some of us requested them. Who knows, I might be the one to blame in the end 😛

 

[Violetta]

Someone woke up feeling righteous today! Who would've ever thought the guy who advertises being into kids in his profile would get pinched for posting a picture of a kid?

Funny part is, despite what the cries for justice may imply, he's not the first. Several pictures in violation of the site's rules have been removed in the past. Here's the part I find most interesting, though.

I have no clue which image they considered underage. I just posted from my armpits folder in order they were.

So no attention whatsoever was paid to which images were being posted. The picture could have absolutely been in violation of the rules. I'd suggest next time looking before posting. It takes a second, and it could save you an infraction.

 

[whade06]

IMO Yanne is doing the right thing. Issues like this are better addressed openly and publicly if they are problematic. I really would expect the standard warning to at least include a link that tells you what you have done and in which thread. You have to stomp out legally risque content, I agree, but this formal, you-know-what-you-have-done format does not do. Since this meant to be a warning, not an ultimatum, to a member's possible accidental slight, some degree of good faith is expected.

However it should also be understood that just because underage content is really easy to find (I could do a pixiv search right now and every second pic would be one) this site has laws and standards to adhere to. THEY can not use "everyone else is doing it" as an excuse.

 

[slacker2114]

What the hell is "loli" anyway?

 

[yanneilucia]

First of all, I was never hiding the fact that I like loli and I have the right to express myself freely about it, BUT I always did my best to respectfully follow the rules of the site as much as I could. I did make a fuss about it several times, but never did I asked for lolicon to be accepted as normal, because I am aware of the problems it could bring to the site.

I will repeat it again: When I posted in the Anime Armpits thread, I was trying to be quick (you can notice it's just my posts in a very short time period), and I DID check the images, but only as thumbnails in my folder, before uploading.
Still, I won't leave out the option that my judgement of the image was off, due to the loosely written rules. I could post numerous images with questionable age of the drawn character now and prove that there is no way to guarantee that the chars are 18+.

I am very proud of all of you, because you could have easily just cast me out and forget about it. I won't stop my contributing as I have intended.
But I ask for one more thing from MistressValerie. Either show right here in front of everyone, which image was the one that triggered your decision, or remove my negative points and apologize.

 

[AnimeWatcher1]

Do you mean that there are pics with nudity and/or sex acts, or just that there are pics of underage characters? Cause my point was that, by the rules, pics of underage characters are only banned if they have nudity and/or sex acts.

No, not that they're simply underage. That is within the rules. Foot fetish, particularly foot worship, is a common theme with underage pics throughout the site that sneak past the banhammers.

 

[U.N.Owen]

No, not that they're simply underage. That is within the rules. Foot fetish, particularly foot worship, is a common theme with underage pics throughout the site that sneak past the banhammers.

Ah, okay. Yes, that would be a missed violation of the rules.

 

[creator1]

i have been lurking for a couple years now. and all those pics that yanne posted a page or so ago i found on here when i joined, and yes it is rather dificult to draw the line on those pics. what makes those ok? they lack the defining features of puberty completely, which would make them underage. so why is it that infraction worthy pics are selected like a buffet table to fill the plate of admin looking to "enforce the rules".

on the flipside of this controversial coin, if its questionable dont post it. plain and simple. why try and come as close to 38th parallel as you can before you get in trouble?

and my last point to make: this is an online forum. run by people. for the last 2000+ years anything run by people has never been just, never been fair, never been perfect. its politics, some people will try and play by the rules and make it fair, while others will swing their banhammers simply because they can.

please pardon any spelling or grammar errors that may have occured.

 

[dalekfire]

Greetings, everyone. I'm semi-speaking on behalf of Mistress Valerie, as she's going through a busy spell right now, but I did have a conversation with her last night, regarding the issue.

The images haven't been saved, so I'm going off of what I was told. From what I understand, Valerie received a message from another member with a complaint about one of the images, described in detail, but along the lines of what he claimed was an 8-year-old engaging in direct sexual activity. Upon review of the other images in the post, she also observed a topless pre-pubescent girl with child-like breast buds, and a boy who appeared to her to be very young (pre-teen) with a giant ejaculating pixelated penis. By her judgement, all aforementioned images appeared to be in violation of the forum guidelines.

Now, it seems the major issue here is in just what constitutes as going "too far" over the mark, and I'm in complete agreement with the common opinion here that the gray area is huge sometimes with certain art styles. But, as we are an adult-oriented site, and we must comply with the US laws concerning internet child pornography, we do try to look at those images that may be in danger of crossing the line.

However, because we don't know the background behind every character out there, we typically leave it up to the individual member to use his/her own common sense when determining which images are okay to post - after which, if we happen to run across it, or if another member brings up issue or reports it to us, we (the staff) will make our own determination as to whether or not it's permissable in accordance to the forum guidelines, or as close to it as we can get.

Although you may argue that's subjective, due to the structure we must work with, we simply can't be any more flexible than we are now - and as is, we're being as lenient as possible, as we do allow underaged art here, as long as it's decidedly non-sexual, or doesn't come into conflict with the rules listed in the forum guidelines. The only other workable option would be to eliminate that gray-area altogether, and that would mean no art of anyone appearing underaged, period.

Point is, regardless of the case, because the staff are tasked with enforcing the rules, we must make the final decision. Any issue with our decisions can of course be appealed, and we'll try our best to look into it, but, again, we'll make the determination by our understanding of the site rules. I'm assuming Mistress Valerie's decisions to remove the images and issue the infraction are due to that determination.

Now, many of you say that there are probably quite a bit of art here that may be in violation of the rules, but they're still around, so what gives? There are two possible reasons for this:

1) A staff member has decided that it's permissable by their understanding of the rules, and chose to leave it be, and there doesn't seem to be any complaints by any other member, either in private or within the topic itself.

2) We've simply overlooked it. The Theater is a huge site, and the admins and mods are very capable of skipping past any number of posts. Also keep in mind that we have busy lives as well, so meticulously scouring through every post and every attachment is simply impossible.

Due to this, we can't help that there are probably material out there that shouldn't be. We do rely heavily on other members to do the right thing and report said questionable content/posts using either the "Report" button on the left side of each post, or by PM or email.

Still, we do empathize with your concerns about the clarity of the rules, and we do apologize. Especially considering the nature of our fetish and the two sides of the same coin, a clearer description of what we expect is probably in order. While chatting last night, Missy Val did show a desire to rewrite the rules to be a bit clearer, though I'm sure it'll still be along the lines of what I said in this post.

In attempt to conclude this (I realize I type WAY too much in my posts xD), I'll include this final suggestion. If you are really having difficulty determining whether it may be in conflict of the rules, just don't post it. Either ask a staff member first, or err on the side of caution. And if you don't think our site rules are fair, you're more than welcome to post those things at other sites that do allow it. Our rules are there for a reason, and any member who wishes to participate must abide by them

I hope this has shed a bit more light on your questions and concerns. 🙂
~Dalekfire

 

[U.N.Owen]

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[yanneilucia]

I ran a quick check of the Anime Armpits thread yesterday, and I've found some other images that I posted, that are in such obvious way against the rules. I have removed them and wrote; 'violation of rules' as a reason for editing. There were quite a few actually. I really shouldn't stay up so long at night posting images anymore. And I have a confession to make: I was pretty much relying on my hentai management when I posted so I didn't check them thoroughly enough. I tend to keep lolis in a separate folder so these must date years back when I wasn't sorting every single thing by tags.

So in conclusion, it seems I wasn't wrongfully accused as I thought initially.

Now that I see the whole picture, it is clear to me how lenient you were the whole time. The rules, as they are now, are actually better than any other variant, and they were your tool of giving more freedom to us members, as Anime artwork can tend to look really childish with the big heads and small breasts.
I was a fool to doubt your judgement so quickly and my rage got the best of me. You could also have punished me more severely or restrict my access to the site altogether. That would have been much easier for you. But instead, you apologized to me and decided to make new rules according to my demands. I am here for a few years now and I didn't realize what great staff members Tickletheater has. It's a shame we had to meet trough my ''waging war against you''.

Now it's my turn to apologize:
I'm sorry MistressValerie for calling you a ''stuck-up admin'' in one of my previous posts. That says more about me than about you. I have no excuse for insulting someone I barely know.

I deeply regret involving everyone in this gruesome discussion, but I think it was necessary to get this subject straight. Now that they have decided to change the rules, I'm thinking about how much damage I have done to all the others, if the rules turn out to be so strict that someone else gets images dear to them deleted. But I find myself many times in a situation that I have find something I'd like to share and then I question if it's alright or not.

As for the ''don't post it if it's questionable'' method suggested earlier...
Tickling content is one of the rarest out there and every bit and piece we find is a treasure to us. You can confirm this just by watching ChilledBones posting info on every single second of tickling that ever happened in anime in Huge Anime Tickle thread. And having our own artists , making as much as they can. Many of us are doing their best to search around the net and share here with everyone. I, as a lolicon and a greater level hentai that likes almost all fetishes, sometimes go into deeper and darker places, others are afraid to go. There, I sometimes find some rare tickling content that doesn't appear to be known here. It always hurts me in such situation, being unable to judge if it would be alright to share. Unlike with the recent examples that slipped past by me, I always watch out if the content would be offensive or against the rules. But there is always the fear of being judged for it. Also, when I draw my own art, I watch out to stay on the proper side if making it for Tickletheater. But it would be easier for me to know exactly what I can draw, and what I mustn't.

Now to sum it up:

1. If you leave the rules as they are, I will do my best to follow them, but I beg of you not to give me more negative points if I do make a mistake on occasions. Instead, warn me, and I will remove the art myself.

2. If you change the rules, make it as a guideline, not as an ultimatum. As I have witnessed here, members of Tickletheater are mostly good and well behaved people that make no unnecessary trouble.

If you do choose to change the rules, it would be great if we could see them and vote for and against.

Thanks for your time, for I realize how long this post must look by now...