Are images of underage cartoon characters now permitted on the

[TMF Jeff]

Jim made a good argument on how he found your decision to be hypocritical, not outright calling you a hypocrite. And you respond by cursing and insulting him as you refuted his assessment.

Excuse me, but that's not what happened. He called me a hypocrite here:

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showpost.php?p=1878387&postcount=14

Then I told him not to call me that just because he disagrees with my decision, here:

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showpost.php?p=1878391&postcount=15

Then here, he specifically says that he feels I'm a hypocrite, and outlines why:

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showpost.php?p=1878401&postcount=18

and THEN I got mad and told him off.

 

[Babyshambles]

If I had not known the context I would have thought it was fine. It's a nice drawing.

However, putting it into the context of "destroyin' Yur Childhood", the fact that it shows a kindergarten cartoon character in a sexual context, and the fact that this furore has arisen, it sholud be removed.

There might even be an issue of copyright violation/infringement.

I'm very undecided on this one. On the one hand, I would remove it to err on the side of caution. On the other hand, is it really that bad??

If no one had commented it should have been allowed to stay - following this furore, it MUST be removed to preserve the integrity of this forum.

 

[drew70]

This was the most trivial imaginable rule violation that caused exactly zero harm and was controversial to nobody. I decided on the fly to let it slide because it was completely non-adult in any way, the way we might allow a picture of a minor who was feeding an elephant a peanut. Because we're reasonable people who know what matters and what doesn't and don't have to act like robots when a decision needs to be made, and there's no reason anyone should care about that. Drew just likes to nitpick and create constant problems, because we won't let him run around and harass people that he disagrees with.

I respectfully disagree. And I see you are already trying to turn this into a discussion of my behavior when I clearly requested this not be done.

I'll tell you exactly why this raised a red flag with me. The cartoon is by no means a trivial violation. I agree it is very cute, and very funny, but the bottom line is that it is sexual in nature. This is the kind of thing that can get the forum shut down.

The TMF staff worked hard and brooked a <em>lot</em> of objections when this rule was enacted, especially with regards to "aging" characters. I was on better terms with some of the mods in those days and I know that it was a real fiasco, which finally subsided.

Now I've given this some thought, and to be fair, Bella wasn't on staff at that time, nor have I seen her post any art, so it's possible and even understandable that she'd be unaware of this rule or the difficulty experienced in its initial enforcement. There's no doubt in my mind her intentions reached no further beyond posting something humorous.

This could have, and should have been worked out in that thread, but I was bullied into silence under threat of banishment. So now, I've got all these people coming to me in private asking what the verdict is. They ask me privately because they are afraid of Jeff. Afraid of being bullied. Afraid of being banned. They deserve a straight answer and Jeff has finally delivered it.

Let's all just move on.
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[TMF Jeff]

Anyone who is afraid of being banned is really not paying any attention. You can just about count on one hand the number of people who have been banned from this forum in its eight year history.

You have to really be an unredeemable, unchanging asshole completely without any redeeming qualities at all to get banned from the TMF. Just pissing me or another moderator off doesn't even come close.

 

[dvnc]

Just so it's known, I back MTPJeff's decision. There are exceptions on occasion, and that one's been proclaimed accepted in it's orig. thread. That this whole argument is being staged when the decision was already made is really disappointing.

Gentlemen, I know you wish to state your views, but the moment you insulted MTPJeff, you crossed a line. It would be good to simply step away if you can't apologize for your behavior.

 

[Babyshambles]

This thread does no body any favours.

Can we remove the whole thread and agree to disagree.

Drew - you have a good point, but Jeff's made a call to let it stay and you should respect that. It's his forum and his judgement should count.

If I were in Jeff's postion I would be annoyed that someone was bringing a private discussion into the public arena. It seems like petty point scoring.

At the same time, Jeff probably didn't handle this thing with Drew so great in the first place, causing him to feel offended and belittled and resorting to the measure of this thread.

Can we not just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Babyshambles]

Anyone who is afraid of being banned is really not paying any attention. You can just about count on one hand the number of people who have been banned from this forum in its eight year history.

You have to really be an unredeemable, unchanging asshole completely without any redeeming qualities at all to get banned from the TMF. Just pissing me or another moderator off doesn't even come close.

I'm on his hand twice

 

[Babyshambles]

You have to really be an unredeemable, unchanging asshole completely without any redeeming qualities at all to get banned from the TMF. Just pissing me or another moderator off doesn't even come close.

 

[jim66e]

I'll try to return to logic here (got to put my degree to some use)

Hopefully we can all agree that the forum rules prohibit posting images of underage people, as well as aging them to become adult.

Jeff, if you looked at that picture and judged that the picture was not of an underaged person or a person who had been aged, then you were not a hypocrite. In fact, if you state that was your thought process I will publically retrat my implication of hypocrasy, and admit I was wrong. I will be happy to do so.

If you looked at the image, considered to to be either underaged or ageing and therefore a violation of the rules, but decided to make an exception and ignore the rules because this was funny, or because of who posts it, then it is an example of a small bit of hypocracy.

If you think the second situation does not represent hypocracy, please refute the argument. Throwing insults doesn't prove a point.

Again, if its the first, I'll be glad to apologize, if its the second, I have to stick with my views. In multiple places you have claimed I called you a hypocrite because I disagreed with you. Check other posts, there are lots of people I disagree with whom I don't call hypocrites. I implied it with you because I honestly believe this was a case of you professing on thing and doing another. If its not, show me and I'll apologize.

 

[drew70]

Just so it's known, I back MTPJeff's decision. There are exceptions on occasion, and that one's been proclaimed accepted in it's orig. thread. That this whole argument is being staged when the decision was already made is really disappointing.

Gentlemen, I know you wish to state your views, but the moment you insulted MTPJeff, you crossed a line. It would be good to simply step away if you can't apologize for your behavior.

Then I'm sure you'll agree that Jeff owes me an apology for saying...

You have to really be an unredeemable, unchanging asshole completely without any redeeming qualities at all to get banned from the TMF.

...knowing full well that he banned me for thirty seven days earlier this year.

By the way. I've taken screen shots of this entire thread, so when it does get deleted, I'll post the entire conversation in my blog.
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[jim66e]

Jim made a good argument on how he found your decision to be hypocritical, not outright calling you a hypocrite. And you respond by cursing and insulting him as you refuted his assessment.

As a moderator I would think you would hold yourself on a higher level and not fall so easily with breaking the golden rule.

Thanks nemesis.

 

[CrystalLight]

Is it just me, or am I the only one seeing that the only reason this thread was created was to stir up shit?

Any qualms or issues could've been taken to PM's. And if well known posters who just do shit to cause issues and problems aren't getting the answers they desire, then maybe they should take that as a reflection of their behavior and how they treat the forum and the people in it.

 

[dvnc]

Then I'm sure you'll agree that Jeff owes me an apology for saying......knowing full well that he banned me for thirty seven days earlier this year.

By the way. I've taken screen shots of this entire thread, so when it does get deleted, I'll post the entire conversation in my blog.

I disagree with you entirely.

 

[Babyshambles]

Drew,

You can't really win this one, but I empathise with you.

It's not as if you can just go and leave.

Plus - when did drew fall out of favour??? He was always very respected wasn't he? Back in the day???

Then I'm sure you'll agree that Jeff owes me an apology for saying......knowing full well that he banned me for thirty seven days earlier this year.

By the way. I've taken screen shots of this entire thread, so when it does get deleted, I'll post the entire conversation in my blog.
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[goddess_nemesis]

Just so it's known, I back MTPJeff's decision. There are exceptions on occasion, and that one's been proclaimed accepted in it's orig. thread. That this whole argument is being staged when the decision was already made is really disappointing.

Well, can't we discuss that decision, the image itself? Argue it? It may not change anything, but at least get an understanding of what others thought of it. Those who saw nothing wrong with it and why, and those who saw something wrong with it and why. It would make a good discussion.

Gentlemen, I know you wish to state your views, but the moment you insulted MTPJeff, you crossed a line. It would be good to simply step away if you can't apologize for your behavior.

To be fair, MTPJeff insulted jim66e and drew70 too. Just because they insulted him doesn't mean he can insult them back, not matter how mad he got.

 

[jim66e]

Is it just me, or am I the only one seeing that the only reason this thread was created was to stir up shit?

Any qualms or issues could've been taken to PM's. And if well known posters who just do shit to cause issues and problems aren't getting the answers they desire, then maybe they should take that as a reflection of their behavior and how they treat the forum and the people in it.

Apparently this thread was created because it couldn't be taken to PMs. Though we only have drew's word on that so it might not be true.

 

[TMF Jeff]

Then I'm sure you'll agree that Jeff owes me an apology for saying......knowing full well that he banned me for thirty seven days earlier this year.

By the way. I've taken screen shots of this entire thread, so when it does get deleted, I'll post the entire conversation in my blog.

I don't apologize for that. I was specifically talking about you, you irredeemable, unrelenting, asshole. You've been trouble on this forum since the first day you joined it, and the fact that you don't want this to be about your behavior doesn't make it so.

Your method since day one has been to stalk anyone you don't like from thread to thread, harassing them with line-walking behavior, and you've been warned about it dozens of times, which has had zero result. Your banning this year was because nothing anyone says can stop you from being a troll online. When you disagree with someone, or dislike their presence, you follow them around the forum, walking the fine line of our rules to make their experience here as miserable as possible, and I've let you get away with it because of your long history in our community, and my respect for your contributions

There have been many calls to have you permanently banned from the forum, from moderators and members alike, and it's been me, over and over again, who has stuck up for you. There are MANY people who can attest to that fact, I am literally the only reason you haven't already been banned for your behavior here.

And the really despicable thing is that I know for a fact that you know that, and you still stab me in the back, insult me to my face, and go out of your way to make things here as difficult as possible at every turn.

THAT is why this thread has provoked me. Because I know that the real reason you started it isn't that you care about that picture. It's because you love to find opportunities like this, to bust balls and make things as difficult as possible. You love to find seeming contradictions like this and make huge deals out of them.

On any other forum on the Internet you'd have been banned a long time ago, and the proof of what a miraculous exception to that sort of thing the TMF is that despite the fact that I feel this way, you're still here running your fucking mouth, deliberately trying to ruin things, and I'm letting you get away with it.

 

[CrystalLight]

Apparently this thread was created because it couldn't be taken to PMs. Though we only have drew's word on that so it might not be true.

That's when the latter part of my post comes into play.

You as well could have too.

No one piped until Drew made this thread. If it was a big enough thing, then it should've been taken to PMs.

 

[TMF Jeff]

\
To be fair, MTPJeff insulted jim66e and drew70 too. Just because they insulted him doesn't mean he can insult them back, not matter how mad he got.

Why doesn't it mean I can insult them back?

 

[drew70]

Is it just me, or am I the only one seeing that the only reason this thread was created was to stir up shit?

Any qualms or issues could've been taken to PM's. And if well known posters who just do shit to cause issues and problems aren't getting the answers they desire, then maybe they should take that as a reflection of their behavior and how they treat the forum and the people in it.

It's you, Crystal. Everyone that's actually read my OP will see that I TRIED to take this to Jeff in PM. He in fact told me to do so, and when I did, he came back with, "I was lying when I said that. I have no interest in discussing this with you."

If he had discussed it with me privately as he said he would, this thread would not have happened. But he lied, and so here we are.
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[jim66e]

That's when the latter part of my post comes into play.

You as well could have too.

No one piped until Drew made this thread. If it was a big enough thing, then it should've been taken to PMs.

That's true I could have. May be I was wrong to interpet Jeff's refusal to discuss it to be a general discussion of the topic instead of a rejection of drew. Maybe I was wrong to believe drew in the first place.

On the other hand I don't think hiding contraversal conversations is helpful to a forum.

 

[goddess_nemesis]

Why doesn't it mean I can insult them back?

As a moderator you should hold yourself higher than that. People get mad, they say things in the heat of the moment, fine. But it doesn't excuse the actions, the words. You're a moderator and you broke the golden rule. What's the justification? The fact their arguments made you angry, that you weren't able to refute their claims without resorting to name calling.

I see them making legitimate arguments and wanting clarification. You haven't made anything clearer; you've only created confusion on where you stand.

This was the most trivial imaginable rule violation that caused exactly zero harm and was controversial to nobody.

You're own words, saying it was rule violation. To some, that will make your decision seem hypocritical. Jim was asking for clarification on that, not calling you a hypocrite.

 

[nostradamas]

That's right, we have, from the moment you called me a hypocrite, we moved from rational discussion to name-calling and accusations. If you don't like it, learn how to discuss things in a civilized manner.

You should probably take your own advice, Jeff

 

[TMF Jeff]

As a moderator you should hold yourself higher than that. People get mad, they say things in the heat of the moment, fine. But it doesn't excuse the actions, the words. You're a moderator and you broke the golden rule. What's the justification? The fact their arguments made you angry, that you weren't able to refute their claims without resorting to name calling.

I see them making legitimate arguments and wanting clarification. You haven't made anything clearer; you've only created confusion on where you stand.

ok, first of all, I have every bit as much of a right to get mad as anyone else. I do, 99% of the time, rise above provocation, but I am human and I have my limits.

I asked the guy not to get so reckless with his use of the word hypocrite and he chose instead to throw it right back in my face. I don't see any reason why I should not feel free to respond to that with equal directness.

And if this hasn't been made clearer, I don't know what I can say to clarify it further. I've explained that I had to make a specific judgement call and that I made it, and I'm fine with not everyone agreeing with it.

Is it possible that because you don't agree with my decision, you aren't really reading my posts clearly and looking for the explanation? I really feel I've already made myself clear on this, so I don't really understand your confusion. What exactly is it that's unclear to you?

 

[goddess_nemesis]

What exactly is it that's unclear to you?

Because of you saying it was a rules violation and you allowing it to stay. Doesn't that seem hypocritical to you?

Fine, let's make it clear to everyone, was or was it not a rules violation? If it was, why does it remain? If not, then I understand fine why it stays.