Are images of underage cartoon characters now permitted on the

drew70 · Nov 13, 2008

MTP Jeff said:
I don't apologize for that. I was specifically talking about you, you irredeemable, unrelenting, asshole. You've been trouble on this forum since the first day you joined it, and the fact that you don't want this to be about your behavior doesn't make it so.

Your method since day one has been to stalk anyone you don't like from thread to thread, harassing them with line-walking behavior, and you've been warned about it dozens of times, which has had zero result. Your banning this year was because nothing anyone says can stop you from being a troll online. When you disagree with someone, or dislike their presence, you follow them around the forum, walking the fine line of our rules to make their experience here as miserable as possible, and I've let you get away with it because of your long history in our community, and my respect for your contributions

There have been many calls to have you permanently banned from the forum, from moderators and members alike, and it's been me, over and over again, who has stuck up for you. There are MANY people who can attest to that fact, I am literally the only reason you haven't already been banned for your behavior here.

And the really despicable thing is that I know for a fact that you know that, and you still stab me in the back, insult me to my face, and go out of your way to make things here as difficult as possible at every turn.

THAT is why this thread has provoked me. Because I know that the real reason you started it isn't that you care about that picture. It's because you love to find opportunities like this, to bust balls and make things as difficult as possible. You love to find seeming contradictions like this and make huge deals out of them.

On any other forum on the Internet you'd have been banned a long time ago, and the proof of what a miraculous exception to that sort of thing the TMF is that despite the fact that I feel this way, you're still here running your fucking mouth, deliberately trying to ruin things, and I'm letting you get away with it.

I'll issue you the same challenge I've always issued. Show me any example of where I've broken the posted rules of this forum. The truth is you CAN'T. You never have, and you never will. Even now I'm maintaining the established forum protocol which you discard at your every whim. You continually boast of how "even handed" you are, but you are at best an ill-tempered loose cannon and everybody knows it. Your Geshtapo strong-arm tactics are seen by all, Jeff. Every time you shut me up with flimsy excuses of being "off topic" EVERYBODY sees it. You refuse to face me in open debate. You always hide behind your admin status and use it to your every advantage. Every time I bring an issue your way, you lose your temper and refuse to deal with it. I've never seen a forum admin behave as disgracefully as you have, and you've brought shame on this entire forum.

TMF Jeff · Nov 13, 2008

ticklingnemesis said:
Because of you saying it was a rules violation and you allowing it to stay. Doesn't that seem hypocritical to you?

Fine, let's make it clear to everyone, was or was it not a rules violation? If it was, why does it remain? If not, then I understand fine why it stays.

ok, trying again:

It was neither a rule violation, nor NOT a rule violation. It was questionable, because we often make exceptions to the minors rule in the gen disc forum. The rule that's being quoted about aging characters comes from the artwork forum, it's a rule for people making tickling fetish art. I had to make a decision about whether or not this was a rule violation, because of it's specific context. We often do that, make decisions based on the good of the forum and the broader circumstances, not the letter of the rule.

In this case, I decided that it didn't constitute enough of a rule violation, if it even was one, to need any action being taken. I thought about it for no more than ten seconds, but if I have to sort of stretch out the internal experience, that's about it.

goddess_nemesis · Nov 13, 2008

MTP Jeff said:
ok, trying again:

It was neither a rule violation, nor NOT a rule violation. It was questionable, because we often make exceptions to the minors rule in the gen disc forum. The rule that's being quoted about aging characters comes from the artwork forum, it's a rule for people making tickling fetish art. I had to make a decision about whether or not this was a rule violation, because of it's specific context. We often do that, make decisions based on the good of the forum and the broader circumstances, not the letter of the rule.

In this case, I decided that it didn't constitute enough of a rule violation, if it even was one, to need any action being taken. I thought about it for no more than ten seconds, but if I have to sort of stretch out the internal experience, that's about it.

Ok, just one more, what about the rule I quoted about minors "as the focus of... other fetish behavior"? Does it violate that?

TMF Jeff · Nov 13, 2008

drew70 said:
I'll issue you the same challenge I've always issued. Show me any example of where I've broken the posted rules of this forum. The truth is you CAN'T. You never have, and you never will. Even now I'm maintaining the established forum protocol which you discard at your every whim. You continually boast of how "even handed" you are, but you are at best an ill-tempered loose cannon and everybody knows it. Your Geshtapo strong-arm tactics are seen by all, Jeff. Every time you shut me up with flimsy excuses of being "off topic" EVERYBODY sees it. You refuse to face me in open debate. You always hide behind your admin status and use it to your every advantage. Every time I bring an issue your way, you lose your temper and refuse to deal with it. I've never seen a forum admin behave as disgracefully as you have, and you've brought shame on this entire forum.

I specifically said you're a line walker, that you don't break the rules, instead you exploit them to create problems that you think you can't be held accountable for.

As for an open debate, I literally don't know what the hell you're talking about. What are we going to debate, whether or not you're an asshole? I think we both know where we stand on that issue.

The truth that you're not saying here because it doesn't serve your purposes, is that I've tried to talk to you about this a dozen times, and so has almost every moderator here at some point or another.

I now know, because of constant experience with you, that debate and discussion are useless, and even if you claim to agree with me and say that you understand, you will immediately turn around, act worse than ever, stab me in the back, and then blink innocently when called out on it.

You've exhausted your chances to debate with me on this subject drew.

Babyshambles · Nov 13, 2008

You do know that you've made a very open threat to Jeff's and the admins authority with that post.

For the overall good of the forum, it must be seen that such behaviour cannot be tolerated. Otherwise the admins lose some of their authority.

In reality, the internet enables to the moderators to do whatever the hell they like anyway, a click of a button will delete a post with zero effort required. Co-operation is not needed. And most people are civil anyway.

But I still feel that this bahaviour cannot be tolerated.

I know what it's like to be pissed off by Jeff. In another lifetime I had arguements with him about freedom of speech etc., but I was always missing the point entirely.

At the same time, I don't know why Jeff is playing these games either.

Why is he giving you this rope so that you can hang yourself? Why not just lock/delete the thread???

He should act swiftly and end this now.

drew70 said:
I'll issue you the same challenge I've always issued. Show me any example of where I've broken the posted rules of this forum. The truth is you CAN'T. You never have, and you never will. Even now I'm maintaining the established forum protocol which you discard at your every whim. You continually boast of how "even handed" you are, but you are at best an ill-tempered loose cannon and everybody knows it. Your Geshtapo strong-arm tactics are seen by all, Jeff. Every time you shut me up with flimsy excuses of being "off topic" EVERYBODY sees it. You refuse to face me in open debate. You always hide behind your admin status and use it to your every advantage. Every time I bring an issue your way, you lose your temper and refuse to deal with it. I've never seen a forum admin behave as disgracefully as you have, and you've brought shame on this entire forum.

TMF Jeff · Nov 13, 2008

ticklingnemesis said:
Ok, just one more, what about the rule I quoted about minors "as the focus of... other fetish behavior"? Does it violate that?

Well, the decision I made was that the minor was the focus of humor behavior, and that the dominatrix outfit was not the point of the image, except as the lever of the joke. In other words, it wasn't intended to trigger the "oh look, a dominatrix" reflex, but the "oh look, what a seemingly startling contrast of imagery" reflex.

goddess_nemesis · Nov 13, 2008

MTP Jeff said:
Well, the decision I made was that the minor was the focus of humor behavior, and that the dominatrix outfit was not the point of the image, except as the lever of the joke.

Ok, thank you for making it clear and explaining how you decided it. Though I disagree, I respect your decision. :upsidedow

jim66e · Nov 13, 2008

Thank you for explaining further. I choose to accept your more recent statements and disregard your completely contradictory statement made in post #8. That being the case you did not act hypocritically and I was wrong to claim you did. I apologize.

nostradamas · Nov 13, 2008

MTP Jeff said:
As you proved in your earlier post with your insane babble about being "lawful," you're a social retard, and you really should shut the fuck up.

TMF...the flame-free forum.

Well, sometimes...It just depends on who you are.

TMF Jeff · Nov 13, 2008

nostradamas said:
TMF...the flame-free forum.

Well, sometimes...It just depends on who you are.

You're not wrong. I'm allowing this thread to be an exception to that rule too. Things have been said to me that if said to someone else would probably cause the post to be pulled or the whole thread to be yanked. But I'm letting it fly on its own wings because I think some of the issues here need to be addressed once and for all, and because the only feelings at stake are mine.

The only people I'm being direct with are people who are being direct with me. I think we're making a mutual choice to engage in some very frank conversation, and for a variety of reasons, I'm not clamping down on it: one of them being that it's clear that the OP doesn't want that. Drew specifically said that if this was pulled, he would consider it censorship and post screencaps of it on his blog, whatever that means.

CrystalLight · Nov 13, 2008

jim66e said:
On the other hand I don't think hiding contraversal conversations is helpful to a forum.

Ha. That completely depends on who you are to some people.

Broaching a possible controversial topic makes many people whiny. But yet, it's the most active you'll see some people. It's a damn shame, really.

So, yes-- I *do* agree. However, Drew was referring to the fact that apparently only he got blown off.

Sandrock74 · Nov 13, 2008

Power Ring.....helpless....to....stop.....runaway....thread! Need....more...willpower!

CrystalLight · Nov 13, 2008

Sandrock74 said:
Power Ring.....helpless....to....stop.....runaway....thread! Need....more...willpower!

This thread was a runaway the minute it began, luv. :devil:

Sandrock74 · Nov 13, 2008

CrystalLight said:
This thread was a runaway the minute it began, luv.

Yeah, but I had to read it from the begining...and then play catch up! I'm nothing if not a responsible superhero wanna be.

drew70 · Nov 13, 2008

MTP Jeff said:
I specifically said you're a line walker, that you don't break the rules, instead you exploit them to create problems that you think you can't be held accountable for.

If I'm following the rules and there are still problems, then doesn't it stand to reason that there is a problem with the rules? That they aren't clear and concise, but in fact deliberately vague, in order to justify punitive actions?

As for an open debate, I literally don't know what the hell you're talking about. What are we going to debate, whether or not you're an asshole? I think we both know where we stand on that issue.

Yes, we do agree. We agree that you regard yourself above the rules you insist everybody else but you follow. Hence you calling me an asshole on numerous occasions, not to mention several other violations here in this thread and elsewhere.

The truth that you're not saying here because it doesn't serve your purposes, is that I've tried to talk to you about this a dozen times, and so has almost every moderator here at some point or another.

I now know, because of constant experience with you, that debate and discussion are useless, and even if you claim to agree with me and say that you understand, you will immediately turn around, act worse than ever, stab me in the back, and then blink innocently when called out on it.

You've exhausted your chances to debate with me on this subject drew.

Oh you've talked to me alright. But it's always been one way, Jeff. Whenever I try to defend what I said or did, you lose your temper and say things like, "I've had it with your bullshit. I wash my hands of you." You are literally impossible to talk to, generally speaking.

And let's be real, here. You admit I don't break the rules, yet you pronounced a thirty day ban on me. A ban not for violations, but simply to appease those who call for my removal. Thirty-SEVEN days later I had to post in General under an alternate ID to get you to let me back in. You are quickly developing a history of not keeping your word, Jeff.

And yet you accuse ME of stabbing YOU in the back? Unbelievable.
__________________

ViperGTS · Nov 13, 2008

MTP Jeff said:
I'm allowing this thread to be an exception to that rule too.

OMG really? So I can use this thread to express the fact that in my opinion I think Drew is a socially-inept, sexually repressed, cowardly douchebag with a serious inferiority complex? Or would I get in trouble for that?

MTP Jeff said:
Drew specifically said that if this was pulled, he would consider it censorship and post screencaps of it on his blog, whatever that means.

That way he can tell his three other socially-inept, sexually repressed, cowardly douchebag friends who think he's S.M.R.T. how mean we are to him on tha intarwebz.

Anyway, I see both sides of the argument - why Jeff thinks it's not a big deal and why others think it should be pulled. Personally, I think it's cute and ironic and a stark contrast of imagery - but there's no way in hell that the TMF could be shut down over something as silly as this.

TMF Jeff · Nov 13, 2008

drew70 said:
If I'm following the rules and there are still problems, then doesn't it stand to reason that there is a problem with the rules? That they aren't clear and concise, but in fact deliberately vague, in order to justify punitive actions?

The rules are left vague and flexible because we know in advance that no matter WHAT the rules are, someone will come along and exploit them to find loopholes that allow them to violate the spirit of the forum.

You are such a person, and the rules cannot cover the situations you've created. Therefore we have to deal with you as an anomaly. And having spent a ridiculous amount of time discussing you, we've concluded that you cannot be stopped from your relentless troublemaking.

Yes, we do agree. We agree that you regard yourself above the rules you insist everybody else but you follow. Hence you calling me an asshole on numerous occasions, not to mention several other violations here in this thread and elsewhere.

Oh you've talked to me alright. But it's always been one way, Jeff. Whenever I try to defend what I said or did, you lose your temper and say things like, "I've had it with your bullshit. I wash my hands of you." You are literally impossible to talk to, generally speaking.

No, drew, those were things that were said after the tenth attempt at being reasonable, and the tenth time that you acted as if you understood what was being asked of you as a member of this forum, and would try to go along.

You've exhausted my patience to the point where I no longer consider it possible to discuss things with you as if you were a rational human whose point of view can be changed by conversation. You LIKE being an asshole, and you openly talk about wishing this forum were unmoderated so you could be an even bigger jerk.

And let's be real, here. You admit I don't break the rules, yet you pronounced a thirty day ban on me. A ban not for violations, but simply to appease those who call for my removal. Thirty-SEVEN days later I had to post in General under an alternate ID to get you to let me back in. You are quickly developing a history of not keeping your word, Jeff.

And yet you accuse ME of stabbing YOU in the back? Unbelievable.

The ban was for your entire presence here. By being here, you create non-stop problems, and no amount of discussion can reach you.

And in fact, the very day you returned to the forum, you justified my concerns about ever letting you back by immediately launching into your usual dickotry.

And don't bother asking for examples, I have nothing to prove to you. If you want to see what I mean, go back and look at your own posts.

But I'll save you the trouble: You'll see nothing wrong and act amazed that you could be accused of being an asshole for anything you've said, and I'll tell you I'm not fooled by your innocent act.

I've come to see clearly what you are, drew, and I know that you are beyond being reasoned with, and beyond any amount of explanation doing any good.

drew70 · Nov 13, 2008

ViperGTS said:
OMG really? So I can use this thread to express the fact that in my opinion I think Drew is a socially-inept, sexually repressed, cowardly douchebag with a serious inferiority complex? Or would I get in trouble for that?

LOL, feel free Viper. Nobody takes you seriously, anyway. You're the TMF's little yapping Chahuahua. :jester:

That's why people have dropped your Viper Productions ad from their sig. Well...that and other reasons.
__________________

SapphireRose · Nov 13, 2008

Says the person who's a quarter the man Viper is, at least according to the things I've heard about you and your accomodating, open minded lovely lady friend. lol.

ViperGTS · Nov 13, 2008

drew70 said:
LOL, feel free Viper. Nobody takes you seriously, anyway.

Which is why my company, with the help of some fantastic models, has a Golden Feather award and two other Golden Feather nominations.

drew70 said:
You're the TMF's little yapping Chahuahua.

If you're going to insult someone, spell it right. It's spelled Chihuahua, and that's SIR Chihuahua to you, subbie.

CrystalLight · Nov 13, 2008

ViperGTS · Nov 13, 2008

Here's the way I see it. He'll be banned soon, I just know it. And then we'll all make fun of him. And he'll go find some other forum to troll.

And then he'll be happily forgotten, which is what he deserves.

BTW Crystal - Corry luvs you.

CrystalLight · Nov 13, 2008

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3xPIN · Nov 13, 2008

Good topic. I have seen some anime characters that are underaged in tickling/erotic situations on these sites. Like one in particular is one that said, "(whoever her name is) from Pokemon!" And I think "Pokemon? The kids show? where all the characters are kids?" Then I look and there is nudity. But the 11 year old what ever girl has great snorking tits! So this is the later version of her like 8 years later or something? I guess that is feasable, but it also kind of ruins it for me.

drew70 · Nov 13, 2008

MTP Jeff said:
The rules are left vague and flexible because we know in advance that no matter WHAT the rules are, someone will come along and exploit them to find loopholes that allow them to violate the spirit of the forum.

Once again. How can you expect people to behave the way you want them when you deliberately make your expectations vague and undefined?

You are such a person, and the rules cannot cover the situations you've created. Therefore we have to deal with you as an anomaly. And having spent a ridiculous amount of time discussing you, we've concluded that you cannot be stopped from your relentless troublemaking.

You can't even demonstrate where I've made trouble even once. You refuse to take responsibility for the shortcomings of your vague and indefinable "rules." You take action based on complaints and appeasing your friends that don't like what I have to say, even though what I have to say consistently falls inside of forum guidelines.

You've exhausted my patience to the point where I no longer consider it possible to discuss things with you as if you were a rational human whose point of view can be changed by conversation. You LIKE being an asshole, and you openly talk about wishing this forum were unmoderated so you could be an even bigger jerk.

I never said that. I said I wish the forum were unmoderated so we can experience actual freedom of speech without worrying about Big Brother looming over our heads. That's another thing I could never understand. You get so offended whenever I chaffe at the rampant censorship. What in God's name do you think is going to be so attractive about having you control what I'm allowed to say?

The ban was for your entire presence here. By being here, you create non-stop problems, and no amount of discussion can reach you.

"non-stop problems" of which you've yet to provide a single example. Why don't you just come clean and admit that you play favoritism? Your clique doesn't like me. I don't like them or you. So you concoct all these fantasy "problems" to justify your actions against me. Your way of saying, "Hey guys, look what I said to drew70, hyuck hyuck. I showed him, didn't I?"

I've come to see clearly what you are, drew, and I know that you are beyond being reasoned with, and beyond any amount of explanation doing any good.

You are dead wrong there, Jeff. I am very reasonable. You just don't see it because you're too busy losing your temper and mustering your Geshtapo strong arm tactics. I started this thread with earnest intentions. You turned it into a flamefest, so don't talk to me about being unreasonable.
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Are images of underage cartoon characters now permitted on the

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