Commentary - new art forum mod

[Steve&Charlotte1]

Wow.

I know we're new. I know we have only added a few pictures. But until this guy is no longer in a position of power I don't really know if we'll post things anymore - I quite enjoyed the fact that topics went "off topic" - it meant that you could have lots of conversations at once across forums, and made the place more fun.

He's single handedly damaged the cameraderie here in the space of a couple of days. Every single post reeks of arrogance and pettiness, and I can't stand people like that (Steve talking here)

TT - what were you thinking? If it aint broke....

 

[Kalamos]

This thread seems fairly hot - 48 replies in 12 hours mean the subject is quite controversial.

As was appointing DJ moderator. I'm not claiming he is not fit for the task - what I personally feel is not relevant.

I am saying that a certain share of users took a dim view on his first acts as a mod. And resented the way he managed his powers in his first day of work.

I'm not making things up - unless you guys consider creating a personal thread like this, normal.

I don't know why TT entrusted DJ with mod powers. Maybe he's got good reasons - but the lack of responses from the admin's part made all this much more awkward.

While I have personal issues with DJ - I am not blaming him for being himself. DJ behaved exactly as I expected he would. He reacted to a direct provocation by deleting a post and closing a thread.

But I feel TT admin should have introduced DJ to us, before letting him loose.

A introductory thread, just to greet him, warn us, whatever.

Instead everything came out all of a sudden. From the blue, if you wish.

I'm aware this is a free forum, paid by TT out of his wallet - but I feel we deserved some explanations, as a sign of mutual respect.

DJ deserved it too, since he had to stand alone against the critiques, and no proper mod should be put in such a delicate situation.

I feel most people don't have a thing against DJ - but they resent being pushed around, even if it is for a greater good.

 

[Robie_F]

Being a mod is no easy task. Many do not like to follow any rules at all and want to put people down on a personal level instead of giving an honest critique of something posted.

No one gets put down for an honest opinion on the TMF. They do get edited if they verbally assault someone or put them down with name calling etc.

Some people do not understand constructive criticism VS. calling someone an ass or saying that something they posted sucks instead of explaining why they may not like it.

It's a matter of degree.

As a % , it is less than .01 % of threads that have been locked on the TMF. Some mods have lost their positions as such for locking them after throwing in the last word.

Please stop bashing the other forum and saying how bad things are there. It just isnt what it is portrayed to be. It is a handful of members that choose to piss and moan about freedom of speech and the "right to post whatever they want" that cause trouble wherever they end up. Nothing more.

Damien, I believe , will do a good job here if given the chance to do so. Some of you are angry because you have personall issues from other encounters on other forums. Give the man a chance. It is not an easy job to do,


Ray

 

[Kalamos]

I am afraid Venray's post was uncalled for and untimely.

I understand he, as a mod, felt necessary siding with DJ. But I don't think they are right.

Besides, one of that handful of people who moan, is actually a superior to DJ, and he should have taken the hint - and unlocked the thread.

Once again I will say that, my respect for you guys is rapidly sinking.
But if you feel I'm just moaning because I'm generically pissed, well, good luck.

I really resented that remark, and it was a gross breach in netiquette. I feel Venray should have pondered that longer.

I have problems with blindingly following orders, or respecting authority for its own sake. I admit my shortcomings.
But I feel DJ simply acted in a wrong fashion.

Mind you: I am not moaning. And please refrain from repeating that if you care about my respect.

I'm not questioning him just because he is a mod and I am not, out of jealousy or antagonism.
I'm questioning his choices because I feel they are wrong, and I fear he is not fit to the role.

I think not everybody is suited for a given role - and shouldn't deserve a chance at all.

I think I was serene and articulate enough to prevent any suspect of being "just pissed".

And please, Venray, treat me [and us all] with all the respect we showed you so far.

It is only fair.

 

[Robie_F]

When my name is brought into a discussion, then my reply is most certainly called for. In my opinion.

My comments were general in nature and not directed at what you had posted. If you took them as such than perhaps a nerve was struck. My main complaint is nothing more than being tired of the TMF being put down by those that have maligned other members and been called on it. Nothing more.

No disrespect intended, but if your entitled to your opinion, then so am I my friend.

It doesnt work both ways as some would have it.

Ray

 

[Kalamos]

I didn't call your name in. My personal issues with DJ over TMF have been handled by Dave. So I had no real problem with you or your authority as a mod on TMF.

I feel your intervention here was uncalled for since you are not a mod here, and yet - as far as I know - you've thrown your support in without listening to all involved parties.

And it is some support, since you are a mod yourself, on TMF.

Let's be quite clear: I am upset, and I'm trying hard to be as diplomatic as possible.
If you feel you struck a nerve, then replying wasn't really wise or kind: striking nerves is not going to let flames die.

Besides, I see once again the real focus slipping away. We are not here to defend or defame the TMF, even if Drew was involved as the original poster.

We are arguing about DJ being fit for mod here, on TT. I feel your congratulations were premature and maybe you could wait for TT to officially introduce DJ, before throwing your sizeable support in the matter.

I hope you see my reasons, before rushing a reply which might hurt me or the other guys.


Reg's.

 

[Robie_F]

No intent to hurt. What you have to understand is that I am NOT a mod HERE. Just a member like everyone else and entitled to my opinion, as are you. After dealing with DJ through pms and emails on other subjects concerning art, seeing his work and reading his posts here and on other forums, it is my OPINION that he would make a good mod if given the chance to do so.

Please do not tell me that just because I mod on another forum, that I am not entitled my own opinion. Do not say that I shouldnt post it just because. That defeats the very purpose of open discussion on a forum.

I also said nothing against Drew, since you brought it up. He too is entitled to his opinions and expressed them. Quite eloquently as usual.

I go back quite a way with Drew, before the TMF even existed, and though we dont always agree, I find him to be a great contributor to the community and I like him personally. (We met at a nest)

Please do not think that I am personally attacking anyone here. I am merely expressing my own opinion as a member and nothing more.

Regards back at you!


Ray

 

[Kalamos]

What I am saying is that your opinion weighs more than, say, mine, because you are a mod - even if you aren't one here - and because you are a veteran member.

That's why I feel you could be less quick on throwing in your support.

I am not saying you are not entitled to your opinion, but please consider its weight, before expressing it too freely.

I, for instance, have no mod from outside speaking on my behalf - so it is a bit unfair when others do.
It's like calling upon help from above, if you wish.


Reg's.

 

[AphroditeRabbit]

Kalamos I think you should be a lawyer. After reading this and the gay marriage thread my respect for you has risen 5 fold if not more. You're awesome man 🙂

 

[Robie_F]

What I am saying is that your opinion weighs more than, say, mine, because you are a mod - even if you aren't one here - and because you are a veteran member.

That's why I feel you could be less quick on throwing in your support.

I am not saying you are not entitled to your opinion, but please consider its weight, before expressing it too freely.

I, for instance, have no mod from outside speaking on my behalf - so it is a bit unfair when others do.
It's like calling upon help from above, if you wish.


Reg's.

I understand what you are saying, but I feel I shouldnt be penalized for being a mod elsewhere. That should have NO bearing here nor would I want it too. Nor should I be treated differently as a "veteran". Many that post here have been around just as long if not longer.

I ask no special treatments nor accept them. I even changed my account here from venray1 to venray to avoid the "VIP" title that TT gave me. I am no more important than any other member. My opinion should be no more valued than any other. If it is there is nothing I can do about it, but I will not refrain from expressing my opinon any more than any other member should.

Nuff said on the subject. If you wish to continue I ask that it be done via PM to avoid taking anything further away from the topic at hand.

Ray

 

[Kalamos]

-> Venray

I am afraid this matter can't and shouldn't be discussed over PMs alone.

But I am bound to respect your position, even if I feel you are asking people too much.

I feel you can't reasonably expect people to look upon you as a mod on TMF, and then magically forget about that, and listen to your opinion here, as if it came from a green newbie.

Your opinion weighs a lot - and I hope you are fully aware of that.

I would urge you to reconsider, since DJ deleted a post of mine, so I personally feel unfair the support you are giving to the whole matter.

I'll try and avoid involving you anymore - but please read
what happened in the Tickling Art forum and what stemmed this flame.

I value your opinion, but please make it as informed as possible.

Or I'll be simply helpless when relating to a mod I have a personal issue with.

 

[nessonite1]

Helloooooo
I really hope we can avoid turning this into a discussion of the TMF.
I just woke up (its 3 in the afternoon) and I am glad to see no dead bodies laying around.
I am slightly confused by TT's lack of response as the word of our commander in cheif could put everything to rest.

I feel I must clarify something. It wasn't something I felt was worth mentioning but I am at heart an honest person. I see someone insinuated that Drew posted this thread because he had problems with him from the TMF (or something). This is not the case. Drew posted this because I IMed him yesterday and asked for his help. Had I written it myself my frantic state would have been quite apparent and the post would have consisted of grunts, screeches, and something that sounded like a fight between two wild boars.
Drew has an amazing ability, as does my husband, to be clam, collected, and to be thoughtful and eloquent no matter what. I don't share in this ability.

Anyway...that's not my point either. I still feel that we don't need a new mod, in the art forum or anywhere else. What we have already is overkill. But if that is really TT's desire then I would just like to see this new mod carry on the great traditions of TT which does include the general off-the-wallness. I dont care what he did on the TMF. If TT stays TT then I'm happy.

 

[Robie_F]

LOL Glad to see that there are no dead bodies Ness. I surely have no issue with Drew or his post. (and you are correct about him. Nice guy in person too)

As for the rest. I read all 6 pages of responses here Kalamos, and feel as informed as anyone to formulate and express an opinion.

I have done so...and it stands.

A little advice for what it is worth. When you have an issue with a mod. Take it up with the admin. When you air it publically it is fair game for all public opinion , not just those that agree with your POV.

nuff said.

Best to all.

Ray

 

[TickleTheater]

I'm waiting on confirmation from another party before I make an official announcement. Hold yer horses... 😛

 

[nessonite1]

neigh neigh
sorry this happened on your forum, TT! You have enough to deal with!

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Wow, what doesn't come with a new day. Its as if the tide has turned.

Anyways, I think its time for me to speak.

First, I am pleased that this is drawing to a close.

Second, Venray can say whatever he wants. I am one of those people who treat him as a veteran and his words do in fact have more weight with me. He has earned that extra degree of respect from me whether he feels he deserves it or not or that it should be applied. And its not for supporting me, its not for recognizing me as one of the best artists in the community, and its not because he's a mod elsewhere. I respect him for his kindness, his sincerity, and all of the other good qualities he has shown me over the course of a couple years. He is all and all a man's man. A gentleman. I RESPECT that!

He is right in that he should not be penialized for voicing his opinion. I feel others are saying contrary things because they know Venray has a lot of stroke whether he uses it or not, or is even aware he has it.

To be completely unbias/fair however, like he said, his opinion is no more nor no less than anyone else's here. A member of his caliber could float along on his morals if he wanted to, but he doesn't do that nor has he here or anyone else. He works for what he has and so deserves it.


Ness, I'm actually disappointed in you. So it was you that got Drew involved. I thought it was Kalamos. I knew something wasn't right when someone who has nothing to do with me comes from out of nowhere and takes it upon himself to put me on trial basically (which only TT can do, and in private, this should not have gone this far, its nothing more than a mutiny not a sound, legitamate protest in my opinion knowing now what I now about how and why he got involved.)

You just admitted it Ness- you couldn't have done this without him. Thats basically what your saying. You knew you couldn't handle me or the situation so you call in a favor from another forum and you sicked him on me. I am quite frankly disgusted with that. The fact you couldn't handle it yourself says alot about this situation, now doesn't it? Where would this be without him? What if I had fought fire with fire? I didn't do that. Like I said, I could have deleted this thread at any time and not a person would know I did. I could have completely foiled any attempt directed at me at the time.

I have lost a bit of respect for you since last night. What you did was gutless, having somebody else speak for you, and as a moderator, you should have been able to handle this yourself no matter what. Its your job. Because you know that if you had this whole thing would have been much more peaceful and it wouldn't have to come to this. I would have agreed with you like I did last night, except in the early going. And that there would have ended it. Because I'm sure if you would have taken the time to do it yourself it would have come off much less offensive to me and as a result it would have been settled far more quickly.

What you did was cheap, and if no one else is going to say anything about it, I will. Shame on you. You couldn't handle it so you called him. You yourself admitted that you're all laid back here (even as moderators). Don't you see the problem there can be in that? You weren't prepared for this, not mentally, not psychologically. I would have been. Thats why I can't be like you and the others. You need at least one person like me whose tough as nails and doesn't put up with crap sometimes. TT saw this. I honestly believe thats why he hired me. Because he saw my determination, he saw that energy and ferocity. He trusted I would put it to good use, and I will. Which brings me to my next point-

It is official, at least between TT and myself.

I WILL in fact remain a moderator here on TickleTheater.

However, until a reasonable solution can be found in how we want to deal with that art forum, my powers as a moderator are revoked.

I can agree with that, and I accept that punishment wholeheartled. It allows me to keep my dignity and be humbled at the same time. TT knows what he's doing, and I'm flabergasted that there are people here questioning his decision making and thought processes.

 

[nessonite1]

Okay...Im not going to get in a big fight. Those were veryt hurtful things to say and I am very very hurt. Im not going to put up some big front and argue and what not.
I wasnt using some big ploy to get someone to do my fighting for me. I dont really consider it a fight. I was very upset and when I am upset I have trouble putting things into words without letting my emotions show too much. I didnt ASK Drew to post a poll or this thread. All I did was go to him for someone to talk to so that I could vent my frustrations without coming on here and writing something in the heat of the moment which I may later regret.
Drew has always been a good friend for me to talk to and he was also the only person in my buddy list who was online at the time. He did post this all by himself because HE had something to say. I didnt ask him to or even hint that he should. Im sorry if I made it sound that way. I went to talk to him because he was a friend who was online at the time and someone who I liek to talk to when I am feeling bad about something. Nothing more than that celtic.
No backhanded ploys or bad tactics. Celtic I have no beef with you. I'm not your enemy and you're not mine. please dont say you are disapointed in me or that you have lost respect for me. That really hurts a great deal to hear those things said to me.
I'd like to just rewind and go back to us agreeing again to end this. I didnt sic Drew on you at all. I apologize if I said something that sounded like it...I really didnt mean to.
I didnt feel like I couldnt deal with you on my own because I didnt see you as an enemy to be vanquished. Lets just keep the forum running smooth as it always has. I dont want this to turn into some personal war where you insult me and I insult you and people are forced to take sides. There is enough junk like that going around and I dont want it to happen here. I'm a nice person and I am fortunate enough to have a lot of friends who believe in me and respect me. I dont have a warrior in me and if there's some sort of big battle I'm afraid there wont be much action coming from my corner.
Anyway...that's all. I didnt mean to upset you. Im not really capable of the sort of tactics you think I am. You're really overestemating me.
Peace,
Nessie

 

[naveltkltr1350]

hehe..it wasnt nessie that started the problems really..it was mainly me...you wanna be pissed at someone come for me cause really i couldnt care less if u liked me or not..i just dont wanna see this forum get screwed up..thats all

 

[Kalamos]

-> DJ

I'll put it plainly: I have no more respect for you.
I told why and how you lost my respect. So I won't digress further.

If I recall well, you said "Don't threaten me". It was not a threat.
When a person tells you "you are losing my respect", you shouldn't take it as a menace. But it only goes to show why you eventually lost my esteem and respect.


Like I said, I could have deleted this thread at any time and not a person would know I did. I could have completely foiled any attempt directed at me at the time


This basically sums up why I don't see you fit to hold any kind of responsibility.

You like to use power for its own sake. You actually considered deleting a full thread.

You should cooperate with other mods - and instead you say you are ready to "fight fire with fire".

I don't know you personally. I'm not keen on knowing you either, by now.

I'll clear any doubt on this matter. For me, yes, it is personal.
It was when you scoffed at me, before becoming a mod.
And it is doubly so now, since you can [and will] delete any post as a retaliation.

I sadly feel appointing you as a mod was a poor choice. You didn't even wait for TT to properly introduce you, before acting against your friends and fellows.

Even those who had no issues with you.

And before you get ideas, I routinely save posts as images. Just for the sake of preservation.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

The truth remains- you couldn't have done it by yourself. You were not capable of going to the level and meeting the challenge/call of the mod duty that I would have been. If it wasn't for you going to him, he quite possibly wouldn't have said anything. Sure, you can't control him, but this wouldn't have happened if you hadn't gone to him in a moment of mod weakness.

I am a necessary element. I bring balance. If you aren't going to do your job when the going gets tough, stand aside because I will. I'm sorry for hurting your feelings, and I still like you. I'm just really upset knowing what I know now and how it could have been prevented or handled differently and in a more professional manner.

You played wingman to a user and his gripe. Unacceptable.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I save posts too Kalamos. Its always a smart move. I don't have to "get any ideas". This is pretty much over and decided. All it requires now is TT and whatever he has to say in closing.

 

[Kalamos]

-> DJ

That is just why I don't like you having any kind of power.

You actually like to exercise power. However limited.
You consider it a job - a mission, even.

You are too keen on showing your mod muscles, and that's what I fear you might do, again.

I don't think you'll bring balance.


I just sense a clash of interests, here, since you are both an active contributor AND a mod, now.

And I can't see where one ends, and the other begins.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I think you worry too much. TT trusts me, and that should be enough for you. You simply cannot see this with neutrality any more. You have become blinded my skeletal friend. You see only the bad that could be, not the good that will be. You have subconciously ruled out any positive light I might be seen in, and thats a shame because you're only stressing yourself out in wondering back and forth about me.

 

[nessonite1]

Whatever...say what you want. Its a horrible twisting around of what happened but if that's what you wanna do then go for it. Call me weak, call me whatever...Im not gonna fight. I dont think another mod is necessary at all and that will always be. TT's reasoning for this baffles me and everyone else.
Yeah I could have handled it differently. In truth all I did was confide in a close friend about something that upset me. I didnt realize that was calling in a wingman. I refuse to get involved in a conversation like that.
Whatever...in any case it's over. Do whatever you're gonna do with your new powers but really there's no need to abuse them again. There still is no need for new rules in the art forum. There is no need for interjection in personal conversations between members. Never has been, never will be. Just do what all the other mods do. Lay low and take care of obvious breaking of TT's rules like we all do. Quickly, quietly, and without any fuss.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

In truth all you did was start a small revolution in him that sparked the sentiments of other people. Had YOU presented this to me it would not have happened this way. You wouldn't be posting right now and this would have over at page 3, not nearly 10.

Thats a fact, and I'd like you to admit to some guilt at least.

As for the rest, I don't need a reminder. You're not my senior by any means. Talk TO me, not down to me. I realize you think its just giving me advice, but you know its condecending in that you've already said that. You're just making it a point to say it again and provide a contrast of what people think I will be with what people think I should be, by your definition and practices.

Let me make it clear- So long as I work within the rules and take care in what I do, I don't have to go about it the same was as you. That has proven unfruitful. Everyone has their own particular brand, and as long as it proves to work in unison with everyone else's it shouldn't be a problem. I say this with foresight, because I know more about how I'm going to act than any of you do. You know absolutely nothing in fact about what I'm going to do or say at any given time. That is just as much ambigious to you as my appointment in the first place.

Let me remind you its just been one day and that was a fluke. Thats hardly a showcase of the great things I have accomplished and will through this site. You see short term, I see long term. Because I know me.