If You Support Gay Marriage, Then What About Polygamy and Incest?

[Wade1]

I wanted to ask with the rise of those who push for gay marriage to be legalized if other forms of consenting relationships should be looked at as well? If you want to have more than one spouse, or have sex with a relative under consent; then what are the reasons as to why you can/cannot engage in that?

As I said before, I believe in many states it is not illegal to have sex with a relative.

Also as I said before, I think advocates of incestuous marriage as an institution would have a difficult case to make. The case for gay marriage is a civil rights and, arguably, a Constitutional one, because existing laws prohibit gay citizens from marrying anyone of the same sex, which are the only people gay citizens can reasonably be expected to want to marry. It would be difficult for proponents of incestuous marriage to argue that there exists a similarly constituted class of Americans who are attracted only and solely to people they are related to, and therefore that they are being discriminated against by existing laws.

Same with polygamy--there's no discrimination there. The illegality of gay marriage is discriminatory because a straight person can marry an adult person of his or her choosing and a gay person cannot. However, no one is permitted to marry an additional person of his or her own choosing. Meanwhile, while gay people are only attracted to people of the same sex and thus are disadvantaged by current marriage laws, I don't think there's anyone who can argue that they are fundamentally attracted only to groups of people. A would-be polygamist (who is straight) is permitted to marry a person of his or her choosing, but is simply not permitted to marry additional people, and that rule is equally applied across the population.

So while there may be a case to be made for polygamy (though I think it'll have an uphill battle due to the fundamental inequality in many such arrangements) and for incestuous marriage, neither is tied in any legal or logical way to the legalization of gay marriage.

 

[JimBoy]

As I said before, I believe in many states it is not illegal to have sex with a relative.

Also as I said before, I think advocates of incestuous marriage as an institution would have a difficult case to make. The case for gay marriage is a civil rights and, arguably, a Constitutional one, because existing laws prohibit gay citizens from marrying anyone of the same sex, which are the only people gay citizens can reasonably be expected to want to marry. It would be difficult for proponents of incestuous marriage to argue that there exists a similarly constituted class of Americans who are attracted only and solely to people they are related to, and therefore that they are being discriminated against by existing laws.

Same with polygamy--there's no discrimination there. The illegality of gay marriage is discriminatory because a straight person can marry an adult person of his or her choosing and a gay person cannot. However, no one is permitted to marry an additional person of his or her own choosing. Meanwhile, while gay people are only attracted to people of the same sex and thus are disadvantaged by current marriage laws, I don't think there's anyone who can argue that they are fundamentally attracted only to groups of people. A would-be polygamist (who is straight) is permitted to marry a person of his or her choosing, but is simply not permitted to marry additional people, and that rule is equally applied across the population.

So while there may be a case to be made for polygamy (though I think it'll have an uphill battle due to the fundamental inequality in many such arrangements) and for incestuous marriage, neither is tied in any legal or logical way to the legalization of gay marriage.

Then the issue can get further complicated, if for example the government limits how many spouses you can have in a polygamous marriage. And why that particular number?

 

[RedMan01]

My 2 cents here

First up, I think really its high time people stopped telling people what to do, if someone is lesbian or bi whatever, thats their business, no one has a right to tell them how to live.

If they choose to be intimate with another woman (note I am not saying someone chooses to be gay, just if they choose to have sex) its their choice, no one has the right to tell them how to live their lives.

Plus Lesbian and bisexual women kick ass, I wouldn't have half of the porno
I love if they weren't there lol

As to incest not being damaging aside from genetic troubles, psychologically it can severe impact someone, we have different relations with people and different types of love, the Greeks historically named it Eros, Agape, etc.
Its damaging if you have brotherly or sisterly or (god forbid!) parental relationship with someone and get it on.

As to polygamy, many cultures practice, I don't believe in it though, I personally believe in a soulmate, but I'm corny so lol...

 

[Wade1]

Then the issue can get further complicated, if for example the government limits how many spouses you can have in a polygamous marriage. And why that particular number?

Good question. That would be a crucial part of a polygamy conversation.

As a practical matter, I doubt polygamy is going to be legalized in the U.S. anytime soon, so the point may remain theoretical.

 

[BigNorm]

how on earth can you compare gay marriage to incest???

good question. i'm so voting yes when it comes to gay marriage when the vote comes on november 2nd, but to compare gay marriage and incest just because love is what they have in common, it's like comparing me to charles manson just because we both live in america.

i've seen some incredibly happy gay partners, who i wish to see married, and they do a better job at marriage then straight people, who make marriage into some kinda fad that you can just up and quit. i'd be surprised to see a gay divorce, since they worked so hard for marriage, it makes it all the more sweeter.

 

[noneya]

I support gay marriage because if two people really love each other then they should be allowed to get married.
I do not, however, support either polygymy or incest
Polygymy: Marriage is supposed to be about giving your love to a single person that you want to spend the rest of your life with. If someone is married to multiple people then it makes this impossible.
Incest: It is a proven scientific fact that when people related by blood have sex, then the chance of the child having genetic deficiencies is much greater. By doing this, the parents are sentencing thier child to an imperfect life.

 

[TyrantRaveAB]

good question. i'm so voting yes when it comes to gay marriage when the vote comes on november 2nd, but to compare gay marriage and incest just because love is what they have in common, it's like comparing me to charles manson just because we both live in america.

i've seen some incredibly happy gay partners, who i wish to see married, and they do a better job at marriage then straight people, who make marriage into some kinda fad that you can just up and quit. i'd be surprised to see a gay divorce, since they worked so hard for marriage, it makes it all the more sweeter.

see, i dont see how that works. if an incest community made an argument for acceptance they would use the same lines that homosexuality used. "if two ppl love eachother, then why cant they be together?"
so i dont really understand why you would estrange gay and incest so far apart. so as far as i can see they both do run off the same base line. two ppl in love.

 

[TyrantRaveAB]

I support gay marriage because if two people really love each other then they should be allowed to get married.
I do not, however, support either polygymy or incest
Polygymy: Marriage is supposed to be about giving your love to a single person that you want to spend the rest of your life with. If someone is married to multiple people then it makes this impossible.
Incest: It is a proven scientific fact that when people related by blood have sex, then the chance of the child having genetic deficiencies is much greater. By doing this, the parents are sentencing thier child to an imperfect life.

what about parents, sarah palin comes to mind, that know ahead of time before their child is born that the kid will have a defect and continue with having it?
wouldnt that be wrong to? or at least as wrong as incest?

 

[Wade1]

see, i dont see how that works. if an incest community made an argument for acceptance they would use the same lines that homosexuality used. "if two ppl love eachother, then why cant they be together?"

They could say that, indeed. But two people loving each other is not a salient similarity between gay marriage and incestuous marriage for purposes of categorization. Gay people are people who are prohibited from marrying any of the people they might be attracted to; people in incestuous relationships are people who happen to be gay or straight and who are prohibited from marrying a small handful among the population of people they might be attracted to--those to whom they're closely related. The former is a population discriminated against for their fundamental sexual orientation; the latter is a bunch of people, probably of mixed sexual orientations, who--like everyone else in America--is prohibited from marrying a close relative.

So if the incest community (if such a thing exists; I suspect it's largely a rhetorical device) wants to advocate for incestuous marriage, they can do so, and they may use the love of two people as one of their arguments. But that superficial similarity does not yoke their cause in any substantial way to that of gay marriage.

(In the preceding, for purposes of clarity, I proceeded on the premise that both gays and close relatives are prohibited from marrying; I disregarded the fact that there are increasingly more and more places in the USA where gays can marry, and numerous states in which close relatives can legally have sex and--for all I know--marry without procreating.)

 

[TyrantRaveAB]

They could say that, indeed. But two people loving each other is not a salient similarity between gay marriage and incestuous marriage for purposes of categorization. Gay people are people who are prohibited from marrying any of the people they might be attracted to; people in incestuous relationships are people who happen to be gay or straight and who are prohibited from marrying a small handful among the population of people they might be attracted to--those to whom they're closely related. The former is a population discriminated against for their fundamental sexual orientation; the latter is a bunch of people, probably of mixed sexual orientations, who--like everyone else in America--is prohibited from marrying a close relative.

So if the incest community (if such a thing exists; I suspect it's largely a rhetorical device) wants to advocate for incestuous marriage, they can do so, and they may use the love of two people as one of their arguments. But that superficial similarity does not yoke their cause in any substantial way to that of gay marriage.

(In the preceding, for purposes of clarity, I proceeded on the premise that both gays and close relatives are prohibited from marrying; I disregarded the fact that there are increasingly more and more places in the USA where gays can marry, and numerous states in which close relatives can legally have sex and--for all I know--marry without procreating.)

but even if it is still a small population of ppl, the question still remains.

 

[Wade1]

but even if it is still a small population of ppl, the question still remains.

I agree that the size of the population is irrelevant. But as I think I indicated in my response, the question of incest doesn't apply to gay marriage.

 

[TyrantRaveAB]

I agree that the size of the population is irrelevant. But as I think I indicated in my response, the question of incest doesn't apply to gay marriage.

what question is that?

 

[Wade1]

what question is that?

The question that you said still remains.

 

[Senshi1]

I also don't think incest and gay marriage are the same thing. Gay marriage is the same as straight marriage, but with the same genders. It's as far from incest as heterosexual marriage is.

I don't agree with incest, personally. It's too genetically risky, and if it's legalized just one bit, people will start thinking it's okay, and a wave of genetically unhealthy children will be inevitable.

But gay marriage and straight marriage I see no difference between, really. Well, except that the gay couple are unable to conceive together. But aside from that, I really don't see why gay and straight marriage should be treated any differently. As I said in an earlier post, if somebody tried to persecute me by outlawing cross-cultural marriages, I'd be raging pissed. I'm sure any of you would be mad if people tried to outlaw your relationship with your partner for trivial reasons. How is it any different for gay people?

I'm not focusing this argument at anybody in particular, I'm just saying how if gay marriage is a direct road to incest, why shouldn't straight marriage be, as well?

 

[Cbarton]

"if two ppl love each other, then why cant they be together?"

That's why the divorce rate is so high. If you get married (straight, gay, whatever) only for the reason of 'love,' you're doomed. Lovey-dovey feelings go away. Marriage and true love (agape=unconditional love) takes work, not just warm fuzzies. Everyone wants the warm fuzzies, no one wants to put in the work to make the commitment last.

 

[Bashiku]

That's why the divorce rate is so high. If you get married (straight, gay, whatever) only for the reason of 'love,' you're doomed. Lovey-dovey feelings go away. Marriage and true love (agape=unconditional love) takes work, not just warm fuzzies. Everyone wants the warm fuzzies, no one wants to put in the work to make the commitment last.

You probably heard something like this. There is a crush and there is love. You can't love if you didn't have a crush, but you can have a crush at someone without truly loving them. Our parents probably love each other, but they weren't truly in love until they passed some time trial. After that time we all can accept love, but rushing into things like marriage we rarely accept don't we 🙂

 

[Cbarton]

but rushing into things like marriage we rarely accept don't we 🙂

No, it should NOT be rushed. I say you shoul date for at least 6 months and be engaged at least 6 months to 1 year so you can really see and learn about them. During dating, many portray themselves as something they think the other wants. A long engagement reveals more about them. And pre-marital counseling should be a MUST. In fact, I thing we make divorce AND marraige too easy. I think if we made it harder, less would jump in for the wrong reasons and that would help lower the divorce rate.

 

[melanie2]

we certainly didn't rush it..we dated for three years first..of course those were college years but still...

 

[Camel26]

I just celebrated my 5 year anniversary of having been with my ler...we were engaged for 3 years of that, while I finished school...we've been married for almost 2 weeks...

This is AGAPE...nothing has been easy for us...but we've stuck by one another through the darkest lows, and cheered one another on at the highest highs...

Our relationship has survived more than most in a short period of time...but I love her with all I have...she makes me want to be a better person...and fix the world...

So, when I get the opportunity...the gift...the blessing of legal protections for my spouse...I will CHERISH those 1,138 rights...and my day is not far off...

I have never had any desire to sleep with a relative...nor have I ever had ANY desire to have more than one spouse...I'm just a little queer gal with a professional degree and a tickle fetish...no better or worse than anyone else.

I just want my wife...my ler...my better half...to be legally recognized as such.

 

[RedMan01]

Just to point something out

I just celebrated my 5 year anniversary of having been with my ler...we were engaged for 3 years of that, while I finished school...we've been married for almost 2 weeks...

This is AGAPE...nothing has been easy for us...but we've stuck by one another through the darkest lows, and cheered one another on at the highest highs...

Our relationship has survived more than most in a short period of time...but I love her with all I have...she makes me want to be a better person...and fix the world...

So, when I get the opportunity...the gift...the blessing of legal protections for my spouse...I will CHERISH those 1,138 rights...and my day is not far off...

I have never had any desire to sleep with a relative...nor have I ever had ANY desire to have more than one spouse...I'm just a little queer gal with a professional degree and a tickle fetish...no better or worse than anyone else.

I just want my wife...my ler...my better half...to be legally recognized as such.

Whether or not the right wing crusaders turn around and ban gay marriage, people are still go be gay and lesbian, etc. My point is let people decide for themselves, if they find that homosexuality isn't right for them it isn't, if it is, good for em all. Really what people do behind closed doors is no one's busy if you think of it.

Its your life bottom line, people have no place to tell you how to live it.

As to cosaguinous relationships, as said before there are diferrent kinds of love, family have different feelings of love then people do with screw or are in love. True love has to be a combination of Eros, Agape, etc. (Damn the Greeks are smart)

 

[TyrantRaveAB]

Whether or not the right wing crusaders turn around and ban gay marriage, people are still go be gay and lesbian, etc. My point is let people decide for themselves, if they find that homosexuality isn't right for them it isn't, if it is, good for em all. Really what people do behind closed doors is no one's busy if you think of it.

Its your life bottom line, people have no place to tell you how to live it.

As to cosaguinous relationships, as said before there are diferrent kinds of love, family have different feelings of love then people do with screw or are in love. True love has to be a combination of Eros, Agape, etc. (Damn the Greeks are smart)

i know! its my right to do what i want behind closed doors and live the way i want! thats what i told my mom when she walked in on me eating a dead baby.

 

[Camel26]

Wow...me making love to my soulmate behind closed doors was just compared to cannibalism of infant flesh...

Cute.

 

[RedMan01]

Yeah

Makes you just feel all warm and cuddly inside, being called a cannible, you can really feel the love with some folks.

Whatever someone's views are on gays and lesbians and bis, I don't see how someone can draw a similarity to cannibalism.

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

Wow!

Now THERE'S a case of an already bad thread going even further down the pike.

 

[TyrantRaveAB]

cannibalism is accepted in some cultures. dont hate.

along with human sacrifice.