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Kramer loses it

It makes plenty of sense. I can tell you were playing devil's advocate after a couple of pages into it. I was just doing the debating for the other side. That is what you wanted right?
 
Umojar said:
It makes plenty of sense. I can tell you were playing devil's advocate after a couple of pages into it. I was just doing the debating for the other side. That is what you wanted right?
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Yes. That is what I wanted. As it is my thread, I took it upon myself to represent one side, since I don't feel anyone else was going to do it. You and others did a good job.

Sometimes I like getting people into conversation by making them think I really think that way. Because then, I can expect them to speak exactly what they think and feel without hesitation and without second guessing themselves. I get their raw emotion and I know its genuine that way (the good and bad of it), and not something that isn't so gentle that its not rocking the boat. Rocking the boat is good sometimes. It makes people stand up for what they believe in.

I like bringing that honesty out of people. Although, I do admit that it seems sneaky and clever...maybe even manipulative the way I do it sometimes. But I think the really smart folks here on TT, like yourself, catch on really quick and realize what I'm doing. The ones that don't are the ones that stay pissed off. LOL
 
All I know is that if Chris Rock used Racial slers on a couple of white guys that were heckling him it wouldn't even have made Page 6 gossip. A white guy does it and it's heard 'round the world. Just like when a Latina named Jennifer used it in a Remix of her song "I'm Real" even though a black guy helpled her with it. People started calling her a racist too. I think he lost his cool, and did something that was wrong, but I don't think her hates black people. Why isn't anybody calling the black guy biggets for heckling the white guy on stage?
 
I forget the name of the fellow, but he is a good friend of Richards and knows him really well. He is black. And he said that this was out of character for Richards and that the best he can tell, Richards simply snapped and had what seemed like a nervous breakdown.

One thing I will defend about Richards is that snapping and being racist are two different things.

Also, people keep saying "how could Kramer do this", and statements like "this guy is cooky and funny, I can't believe it!"

People need to remember that Cosmo Kramer is a fictional character and Michael Richards is an actor. Its not fair to him to expect him to be Kramer. He is not. They are two different people.
 
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bah things go too politically correct nowadays ... once i've been labelled a racist just because a black person though i had stolen here place while queuieng ... a bit too easy ain't it ? man what a mess :unwell:
 
ticklishgiggle said:
Saying the word "nigger" is in itself a racist comment. He's commenting on a whole group of people by making a comment about the man's race.

I don't think there's any other way to interpret what Richards meant when he said "50 years ago, you'd be hanging upside down with a fork in your ass."

And I really can't believe that people are taking this as lightly as they are, as if subtly defending him.
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Ya, I missed that part of the video (watched only a few seconds of it), mom told me about the "hanging" part when she saw it on TV. That was pretty nasty of him to say the least.

Personally, I've always thought that a person's true personality comes out in times of stress. So, I'd definitely say that Michael Richards is a racist.

And his "apology" felt more like he was feeling sorry for himself... so whatever. It's a shame, I thought he was the most talented of the bunch in Seinfeld; too bad his career went downhill since.

the_jimmy_james said:
I think I'm going to go write some ROCK AND ROLL music about how much rap sucks.
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LOL I thought this comment was too funny to pass up; as OT as it is... rock n roll is origionally black music 😉 so although the genres are different the roots are the same. I like both tho, so I have a nice lil variety on iTunes.
 
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wait a minute ... is it the same guy who played Seinfeld character ?
 
No. Thats Jerry Seinfeld (who plays himself). This guy is Michael Richards, who plays Cosmo Kramer on the same show.
 
I saw on the news last night that Richards appeared on the Jesse Jackson radio program. They all seemed determined on stamping out this racism thing. No point to this comment. Just adding another episode to the Richards fiasco. Richards did say that his comments stemed from rage, not from racism. He specifically said that he wasn't a racist. I don't know whether I believe him or not, nor do I care.
 
I'm white and my girlfriend is black. She pointed something out to me. When Richard Pryor did his stand-up in the late 70s he got heckled by white people in the audience and he ignored them. There is no tape of Richard Pryor going ape shit on a group of white people. If he did say something to them, it wasn't racist.
 
Most black/latino comedians that I've watched, whenever they use rascist comments , its usually to poke fun at rascism, and to make light of it. I've never seen a comedian of color verbally assult a white member of the audience, ever. Even the likes of Eddie Murphy and Chris Rock (who'll say anything lol).

Ya it was rage, obviously... he didn't do it because he felt all peace and lovey dovey 😛

On another topic, Papi; do you have any Richard Pryor stuff digitized? Or happen to know where I can get my hands on his stuff, that guy was a genius in his prime and I'd like to check out some of his standup.
 
Actually rtl, I don't have any of his stuff and neither does my girlfriend. All I can say is if you go to a suncoast store or their website you can find his stand-ups on DVD.
 
Don't buy anything at Suncoast if you can help it. They have some of the most inflated, jacked-up prices around. They want to charge you between $20- $30 for a single dvd (thats not even necessarily a new release) that might cost you $15 or less somewhere else. Online, the prices are even better elsewhere.

Every time I can take a shot at Suncoast I do. They're ridiculously expensive.
 
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Y'know, this is all clearly very controversial. I think Richards was definately wrong in what he did, that's not a question. However, that said, I have quite a few issues with society today that has to do with ALL races, or the human race in general, and one of them happens to be the double-standard I see so much.

Think of it this way; If it was a black man calling a white man every slur he could think of in that way, would it have been as big a deal? The obvious answer from a televised standpoint is no. But why is that? From a racial standpoint, it's all the same. Yet why is it that racism is portayed through white people far more often that it is through any other? The answer to this is the same as to the last question.

And a few more things;

rtl said:
Personally, I've always thought that a person's true personality comes out in times of stress. So, I'd definitely say that Michael Richards is a racist.

And his "apology" felt more like he was feeling sorry for himself... so whatever.
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First, that's not neccesarily true. It can also be a time where you simply want to hurt someone, and quickly (AKA without thought) think of the most obvious way to do that. I'm not saying that Richards couldn't be racist, but I'm not saying that he is based on that either.

Second, that's just how you felt it. The fact that you add the "so whatever" part makes it seem like you are simply looking for a reason to hold a grudge about it. Of course, again, there's no real way to know for certain either way, but people that you don't know deserve the benefit of the doubt in this case.

When Richard Pryor did his stand-up in the late 70s he got heckled by white people in the audience and he ignored them. There is no tape of Richard Pryor going ape shit on a group of white people. If he did say something to them, it wasn't racist.
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So......what exactly does that mean? That Richard Pryor was a better comedian than Richards for not giving in? Cuz of course he was a better comedian. He's Richard Pryor! Just curious.
 
To me it means Richard Pryor was a better man, not a better comedian. He was the minority race being heckled by the majority race and he didn't give in. Michael Richards was the majority race being heckled by the minority race, which isn't as bad.

What makes Pryor a better comedian is that he was way funnier than Michael Richards, which I think most of us already believed haha.
 
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Excess said:
Y'know, this is all clearly very controversial. I think Richards was definately wrong in what he did, that's not a question. However, that said, I have quite a few issues with society today that has to do with ALL races, or the human race in general, and one of them happens to be the double-standard I see so much.

Think of it this way; If it was a black man calling a white man every slur he could think of in that way, would it have been as big a deal? The obvious answer from a televised standpoint is no. But why is that? From a racial standpoint, it's all the same. Yet why is it that racism is portayed through white people far more often that it is through any other? The answer to this is the same as to the last question.

And a few more things;



First, that's not neccesarily true. It can also be a time where you simply want to hurt someone, and quickly (AKA without thought) think of the most obvious way to do that. I'm not saying that Richards couldn't be racist, but I'm not saying that he is based on that either.

Second, that's just how you felt it. The fact that you add the "so whatever" part makes it seem like you are simply looking for a reason to hold a grudge about it. Of course, again, there's no real way to know for certain either way, but people that you don't know deserve the benefit of the doubt in this case.


So......what exactly does that mean? That Richard Pryor was a better comedian than Richards for not giving in? Cuz of course he was a better comedian. He's Richard Pryor! Just curious.
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It can be as concise as saying no particular group is more racist than the others, but black people can get away with their racism more often because the system is set up to support them even in the most frivilous matters. They're not treated like the rest of us are in the same types of situations.

In Calfornia news, theres recently been this developing story (the issue is not resolved yet) about a black firefighter named Tennie Pierce. He is suing for 2.7 million dollars (to be paid by us, the taxpayers) because his firefighter chums played a prank on him by putting a little bit of dog food into his spagetti at the fire house one night. He only took a couple of bites before they informed him it was a joke and the prank was pulled. The mixture was not even enough to make him sick.

He is claiming is it racial discrimination, and that its racist against him because he's black. His lawyers are insinuating and building up his case by stating and refering to slavery, and degredation of the black people, etc., etc., etc. In other words, they're playing the old, tired "race card".

The panel who decided to give him the money went back into session to deliberate it after photos of Pierce from years ago pranking other firefighters in much more humiliating ways surfaced. These photos showed Pierce performing what looks like waterboarding on one firefighter, and in another picture they had put a rabbi's beard and hat on another with a sign or sheet that said "Oy vey, I'm gay!"

There was also another photo where he participated in the presumed act of forcibly strapping a fellow firefighter to a stretcher, stripping him of his clothes, and applying shaving cream toward/on his genital areas.

Most of the firefighters in these photos were either white or of some other etnicity, yet did they sue? No.

Why?

Because this type of prankster, frat-boy jokes and rites are traditional ways of firefighters bonding. Its a big part of the fireman's culture. This type of stuff is good-natured in the firehouses. Its what firemen do.

Pierce used to be good at volleyball, and him and the other firehouse guys would play. After playing he'd gloat and taunt them with "Feed the big dog! Feed the big dog!"

So...they fed the big dog. LOL

It wasn't racist at all, yet here he is, many years before, openly engaging in similar behaviors, pranks, tricks, rites of passage, and hazing.

He's calling the kettle black, and he's a hypocrite who turned on his own men and wants 2.7 million dollars in addition to his pension.

The session of congressmen that decided to give him the money have overturned their decision in light of huge public outcry against giving it to him, and because of the pictures (presumed to have been given to the media by an anonymous firefighter), and also because the mayor of Los Angeles vetoed their decision.

He and his lawyer are taking this to court, and they're going to fight for the money.

I'm using this story not just to show someone's greed, but someone's ability to take advantage of a situation and claim its racism and how blacks have the easiest time taking advantage of it. Because he's black he's getting away with this. He has Al Sharpton, Jessy Jackson, and all those other angry black leader fools behind him too, and this is just stupidity.

A couple bites of dogfood and he wants 2.7 million dollars. And in the news, he's making public pleas and appearing with his wife and daughter, and giving us the water works about how THEY'VE been affected too and its ruined their lives.

And you know what really makes this sick?

Recently there was a wildfire in California too, called the Esperanza Fire. In this fire, 5 firefighters died battling the flames and their families are broken and grieving and need help. This fire happened around the same time Teddy submitted his lawsuit.

People have already forgotten about the brave firefighters who sacrificed their lives to stop a fire, yet this guy and his BS are in the news almost everyday.

All this over some dogfood. And he's getting away with it because he's black. He's taking advantage of the system because he and his lawyers know its easier to do it because he's black and a minority and the system is weak against allegations of racial discrimination, especially against black people. They bend over far too easily.

If a white guy had done this he either wouldn't have been given the money or he will have had to do alot of convincing in order to get it. Teddy had to do little to nothing other than play the race card.

Thank God he and his lawyer are going to have to fight for that money. That bastard doesn't deserve it. Not a single damn penny.
 
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Actually, here's a link to the John and Ken radio show website. I listen to these guys on the radio daily, and they are actually the ones whom recieved the photos first by the anonymous sender. Its because these guys gave someone out there the courage to come forward that Tennie ended up not automatically getting the money.

Judge for yourself and tell me whether these are not worse than eating a bite of dogfood and then claiming its insensitive racial discrimination:

http://www.johnandkenshow.com/tennie-pierce-purported-prankster/

EDIT:

The server must be down, busy, or they're adding new content, because the link isn't working for me right now. Try again later.

EDIT:Ok, its working for me now, but I may just upload them later anyways.
 
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Thanks for the heads-up on Suncoast, I guess I'll just keep lookin. Richard Pryor was something' else lol. I have a few of his old movies on VHS, badly deteriorated tho :/

Second, that's just how you felt it. The fact that you add the "so whatever" part makes it seem like you are simply looking for a reason to hold a grudge about it. Of course, again, there's no real way to know for certain either way, but people that you don't know deserve the benefit of the doubt in this case.
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Actually I just meant that I don't buy his apology. If I wanted to hold a grudge (which I don't) I wouldn't have to look for any reason beyond what he said. But I'm not sensitive to the racial issue as a lot of people are, despite my being black. I just wasn't' raised around that environment, and I'm still trying to figure it all out myself.

I still stick to my guns on this. You say he was looking for the quickest way to hurt somebody "thoughtlessly". I think it's a lot like when you push somebody; and the first foot they throw forward indicates whether they are right or left handed... It may or may not be true; but it's a safe assumption IMO.
 
Papi said:
To me it means Richard Pryor was a better man, not a better comedian. He was the minority race being heckled by the majority race and he didn't give in. Michael Richards was the majority race being heckled by the minority race, which isn't as bad.

What makes Pryor a better comedian is that he was way funnier than Michael Richards, which I think most of us already believed haha.
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I think you mention a very important point here.

There is a lot of history behind the racial tension in the USA; and this history has shaped society in many different ways. It has also made a lot of us very sensitive and more sympathetic to the victims of such atrocities; race-related violence does that to us; whether it’s the Jewish Holocaust, the African Holocaust, Bosnian ethnic cleansing, Native American holocaust, the Chinese who build the railroads… the list goes on and on…

But what the case you posted about, Vlad, shows is that in the end of the day one way or the other justice will come out and expose the truth.

White people like to complain how there's a double-standard in the system today. I say it's nothing as bad as the double-standard that was in the system back when Africans (and later Black Americans) were bought and sold like furniture; back when they were tortured and killed.

So ya, it sucks to be White </sarcasm> but you don't have lynch mobs beating down your door, raping your women and hanging you by your ankles (as old Michael Richards so "thoughtlessly" alluded to in his tongue lashing). But in the end, thanks to the legal system, genuine racial concerns will at least get a chance at justice, and those who are taking advantage will be exposed. That's what the justice system is for right? Let everybody complain as they will, and let the courts sort it out.

Just because somebody thought he could trick people out of 2 mil, doesn't negate the seriousness of how blacks are still the target of race hate. It's just that now we can complain about it, and force people to listen.

As a white person you say you are sick and tired of it?

As a black person I say: Well so are we.

EDIT: LOL I just remembered some points about the nature of the pranks and would like to add my two pennies to your assessment of which is worse.

All in all I think this particular bunch of Firemen are the grossest bunch of heroes in existence; and I mean that when I say "heroes". But anyway, from what Vlad says, it's evident that Tennie Pierce is a prankster. But here's how I read it:

1. Hazing is a part of western culture. I would even say that white people are more into it than blacks; but I get this impression from the Media more than personal experience so I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong in my assessment.

2. Gay jokes, genital shaving and whatnot; all the types of pranks Tennie pulled were totally gross (in my very sheltered opinion) but in the end they had no historical throwback to racial persecution (with the exception of the gay joke, but lets face it... frat-boys constantly crack gay jokes on each other to the point of being suspiciously homo-erotic)

3. The dog food joke, however you want to spin it, does have a very strong racial throwback to the days when the niggers were fed garbage, dog food... and even dog shit by their mastas.

So I could definitely see what got him all upset. I don't know enough about the situation to decide whether or not his taking it to court was an over-reaction on his part or not...

That all depends on what the true mood was at the time the prank took place: Whether they were racially heckling him, or just having a laugh amongst friends. I will say that I have been the brunt of racial jokes, and I personally know what its like to have people I would have considered close friends suddenly turn against me in an instant and play the "racial card" when they run out of witty comebacks or whatever...

And I know the difference between a slip up and a deliberate attempt to use friendship as an excuse to stab somebody in the back. It's like "when all else fails, call him a nigger and laugh like it's nothing".

Anyway, the way I see it, if I were a white guy I would have thought twice before spiking a black person's food with dog-food of all things... They could have gotten back at him by using him as a waterboard, or shaving his balls or something 😛
 
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I have a question for "rtl". I seem to always see Sharpton and Jackson in the middle of these things. As a white guy, it looks as though they would be the modern-day "spokes-people" for blacks, for lack of a better term at the moment. How do you see these two in this "role" and could you mention anyone else that would do a better job? Just curious.
 
Well, beaunanza, to be honest I'm very ignorant of the current social/political happenings in the USA.

I may hail from the US, but I haven't been there since my early childhood. So my opinions are largely based on my own personal experiences and ideals, rather than politics or general opinion. I don't even bother to follow mainstream news these days, except for scanning headlines in online newspapers n such.

So I don't really have an opinion one way or another on Sharpton or Jackson.

Just a side note that may or may not be OT:

Both the location of where I was raised, and the method of my upbringing by my parents, has played a huge role in shaping my opinions and philosophies. I've also had the opportunity to really mix it up with people from all over the world. I have IRL friends from everywhere from Australia, to Eritrea to China. So I may not see things in the same light, or even approach them from the same angle as a lot of those of you who are living right in the USA and experiencing these issues directly on a day-to-day basis.

I see beauty in all skin-tones (or "flavors" as I like to pervily call em 😛). I've seen a beautiful Eritrean girl with natural green eyes. I've met a Turkish girl that had a smile that never failed to brighten my day. I've met a stunning half Saudi half Brazilian lady who makes my heart flutter just at the thought of her. And my gf is a beautiful Palestinian nerd with butter-soft soles 🙂

I've tribal danced with Gambian women, and I've read poetry with an Indonesian princess (well she's not royalty but she is in my little world). And really, I see no difference between any, save for the little quirks that make each of us an individual.

It's sad that racial tension still exists, a lot it which is due to lack of understanding and political sway; but I've come to accept that this will always be the case. The best I can do is avoid people who wish such conflict, and concentrate on people who have freed their minds from this stuff.
 
rtl said:
White people like to complain how there's a double-standard in the system today. I say it's nothing as bad as the double-standard that was in the system back when Africans (and later Black Americans) were bought and sold like furniture; back when they were tortured and killed.

So ya, it sucks to be White </sarcasm> but you don't have lynch mobs beating down your door, raping your women and hanging you by your ankles (as old Michael Richards so "thoughtlessly" alluded to in his tongue lashing). But in the end, thanks to the legal system, genuine racial concerns will at least get a chance at justice, and those who are taking advantage will be exposed. That's what the justice system is for right? Let everybody complain as they will, and let the courts sort it out.
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Of course it's not. I never implied, nor do many whites when mentioning the double-standard, that it was. The people that did suffer through that had to deal with that stuff. But that doesn't mean one generation has a right to pull that kinda thing out and use it to their advantage when THEY weren't the ones that suffered it (a certain Chapelle Show skit comes to mind here). Just cuz there were bad things that happened to someone in the past doesn't neccesarily mean it should be the source of bias in the future.

And Vlad, that was some read, and definately a good example of someone using such a thing for personal gain. It's unfortunate that things like that are so easy to do, despite how "fair" society is "trying" to be. (and by trying I mean trying to give the appearance of).

And one more thing rtl; racism is racism, and hate-mongering is hate-mongering. Period. Just because gay people may not have a "history" like black people doesn't make it any better. Now, whether or not he might have been offended by the dog food thing, none of us can say, but for him to want SO much for it just seems like pure greed for money moreso than from being offended IMO.
 
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