Medjugorje messages from Dec 25, 2001

[ReturntoGod]

Now this subject was clearly labeled and in the "general discussion" forum so don't jump all over me for posting. If you're not interested than read no further 🙂

Message of December 25, 2001 "Dear children! I call you today and encourage you to prayer for peace. Especially today I call you, carrying the newborn Jesus in my arms for you, to unite with Him through prayer and to become a sign to this peaceless world. Encourage each other, little children, to prayer and love. May your faith be an encouragement to others to believe and to love more. I bless you all and call you to be closer to my heart and to the heart of little Jesus. Thank you for having responded to my call." 12/2001

Also, At the last daily apparition to Jakov Colo on September 12th,
1998, Our Lady told him that henceforth he would have one apparition a year, every December 25th, on Christmas Day.
This is also how it was this year. The apparition began at 3:30
pm and lasted 5 minutes. Our Lady gave the following message:

"Dear Children, today when Jesus is born anew for you, in a
special way, I want to call you to conversion. Pray, pray, pray
for the conversion of your heart, so that Jesus may be born in
you all and may dwell in you and come to reign over your entire
being. Thank you for having responded to the call."

I hope the messages of Our Lady enhance your holiday.

Scott
http://www.calltochrist.com

 

[qjakal]

Goodbye?

Don't consider this a "jump all over ya" post, but you really have to learn how to say "bye"...you come and go like a boomerang, mate! Your final post and goodbye from last time seem a bit...strange....considering this one that has appeared. Q

 

[Dave2112]

Scott, I may have disagreed with the way you've gone about things, but I applaude your Faith. I have my doubts as to the reality of what you're involved in, as I am a devout Christian (Yes, believe it or not) and have never heard of some of the things you discuss. But if your faith is in God, and NOT some man's idea of Him, then I wish you all the best. It DOES take some nut to come back and post these things, knowing what you're setting yourself up for, but I agree that sometimes you have to go into the Lion's Den. Just don't think that you have to do this everytime you have something to share.

We are ALL God's children, and more of us than you'd think know where we stand. Please don't take this as a slam, because it is NOT. I just hope you are OK, that's all. 😎

 

[red indian]

get out of this one scott

Can you tell me what god was doing on 11/sept/01? a spot of early christmas shopping do you think? no one on the "Bridge" that day? gross dereliction of duty I would say.

Lets give scott his due folks, he has taken my advice regarding brevity it seems because his posts are getting shorter and less frequent so at least god is answering MY prayers.

 

[Dave2112]

Boy, do I seriously NOT want to get into this on a deep level...but here goes.

Let's not blame God for NOT stopping the things He gave us freewill to do. Blaming God for NOT stopping 9/11 is kind of like blaming a Police roadblock for NOT being in place when a bus slides off the road and kills a pedestrian. I really don't want this to turn into a religion debate, but that's the basis of the Christian Faith. God allows Man to do the things he does because, for good or for ill, free will is the only true gift we have. Some use it, some abuse it.😎

 

[red indian]

But..........

The people who did it said it was gods will.

 

[Krokus]

Well

I say let him have his fun.

 

[venray]

Re: But..........

The people who did it said it was gods will.

But......they do not believe in the Christian God...Scott's post refers to the God of Christianity. When the people who did it say that it was God's will #1 they are not referring to the same God and
#2 If we believe that mankind has been given free will then God's will has no bearing on the acts that were committed.

 

[Krokus]

Red

red indian, God will not answer every prayer.......you are like most people who do not understand......you are looking for someone to blame, and who easier to blame than God?.......I think that your statement was childish and shows ignorance on your part. I think that you should think about things before you go out and say things like that......It is not the Lord's duty to protect us from that kind of harm......at least have the courtesy to KNOW what you are talking about before you make immature comments like that......Thank You.

 

[hawkikim]

Oh my God, I can't believe I am entering a religious discussion thread, because all my life I have felt that the term "religion" is between each of us and our own god/goddess/supreme being.

Many atrocities in world history have been committed in the name of the "Supreme Being". What happened to us (read that: Americans, of all shapes, faiths and colors) on Sept 11 is really nothing new in the history of Man.

There will always be Good, there will always be Evil. Read any holy book you want, you CANNOT have one without the other.

Setember 11th was the most ugly thing I have ever witnessed in all my many years of life...but I do not blame God for that. I blame Mankind's own shortcomings. Mankind (umm...can I change that to Humankind?) is responsible for its own destiny - if it were not so, we never would have been given the power to reason.

 

[ReturntoGod]

I agree completely with Krokum and Hawkikim. Many things in this world happen that we can't find a reason for. This goes back to one of the great quandaries of philosophy. If God is truly good and if God is completely omnipotent....than why is there pain in the world?

Yet we have had slavery, WWI, WWII, Hitler, Napoleaon, rape, murder, abortion, etc, etc, etc. This list could fill an entire forum. And then we have September 11. So many people ask where was God this day?

I think God was crying. I think God was asking Himself, why do My children do this to one another?

Putting aside all of the phonetics that separate one religious sect from another, it must always be clear that God is love, but not love as we know it. God is perfect love, in a way which we can only glimpse through rare peeks of divinity sometimes graced to us. God loves Osama Bin Laden. That may be tough for many of us to hear, but God loves him just as He loves you and I. God wants Osama Bin Laden in Heaven with Him. God created him just as He created each and every one of us. And He will not abandon even the least of souls. But Bin Laden's mind has been masked in darkness and the pitch night has polluted his mind. Yet even now, after all of the innocent lives he murdered, he is not beyond redemption. God still loves him and is still calling him home. Whether he is listening or not only he knows. We should pray for everyone who suffered, for everyone who died on Sept 11. But we should also pray for Bin Laden and for the misguided people in his Taliban. They have been led astray and the fury of hell awaits them. What a terrible fate for any soul.

Back to the point at hand though...Why does God allow us to suffer? Surely He possesses the power to stop such suffering. I believe the answer is two fold. The first part of this answer is based upon the foundations of christianity. God had a Son. A Son whom He loved above all things. A Son whom he sent to this world and allowed to be mocked, abandoned, beat, crowned with thorns, and ultimatley nailed to a cross. God allowed His only Son to face the most violent pains imaginable. That was the cross of Christ. It was his bearing of our sins that delivered us. God calls us to follow in Christ's path. God sends us all our own crosses. Granted, most of us are not called upon to face torture and death to prove or justify our faith, but we are given smaller crosses. Everything we face that pains us or troubles us or causes us to ask why? That is a cross. And following the imitation of Christ, we are called to bear that cross. God never sends us anything we can't handle. Sept 11 is a cross we can and must bear.

The second part this answer is based on the good ole notion of free will. We've heard of it so many times, but do we all understand it? God is there, God is watching. But God does not infect Himself upon the very right He gave us to CHOOSE. We can choose to do good or we can choose to do evil. God gave us that choice. That is what makes us human rather than some robotic mirror of another will. But in being applicable to the choice of good versus evil we are subject to the temptations of evil. Evil is easy. It is so very easy. I hate to quote Star Wars here, but I believe it is a great line that many have heard, "Is the dark side stonger?" - "No, quicker, easier. More seductive." It is easier because in our time, in our place in this world evil is all around us. Which is harder? To stand up to angry mob and say this is wrong or simply to follow the bunch? Sometimes it is very hard to be good, to choose the right path. We have our own wills. We will be tempted by dark forces which we do not control. But in the end we always control our own will. We saw what happens when someone gives into evil and hate on Sept 11. We each have our own will and are called to strive towards love, forgiveness and peace.

Peace,
Scott

 

[hawkikim]

Why does God allow us to suffer?

He doesn't, WE do...

Which you went on to say with a lot more words.

 

[MadKalnod]

I made a promise that I wasn't going to debate again, and I won't, but I am compelled to reply.

We can choose to do good or we can choose to do evil. God gave us that choice. That is what makes us human rather than some robotic mirror of another will. But in being applicable to the choice of good versus evil we are subject to the temptations of evil. Evil is easy. It is so very easy. I hate to quote Star Wars here, but I believe it is a great line that many have heard, "Is the dark side stonger?" - "No, quicker, easier. More seductive." It is easier because in our time, in our place in this world evil is all around us. Which is harder? To stand up to angry mob and say this is wrong or simply to follow the bunch? Sometimes it is very hard to be good, to choose the right path. We have our own wills. We will be tempted by dark forces which we do not control. But in the end we always control our own will. We saw what happens when someone gives into evil and hate on Sept 11. We each have our own will and are called to strive towards love, forgiveness and peace.

Call it a sign of the End Times if you will, but I actually agree with you there, Scott.

This is the point I've been driving at all along. I've come to the realization that Scott and I are both interested in people going in a certain direction, we've just been too busy bickering over the specific details of the individual paths to see that they both lead to the same destination. I may believe that prayer and fasting produce no measurable results, just as you may not like my reliance upon reason over emotion, but we both want Good to prevail.

And incidentally, never be ashamed of quoting Star Wars. I've found more genuine wisdom and spiritual guidance in the worlds of Science Fiction and Comics that I did in most of my Catholic upbringing. God is thoroughly capable of using whatever means work best to reach His target audience. If you can beleive that God can break His own laws of physics to make a 865,000-mile wide sphere of fusing hydrogen and helium move so violently that you could see it from 93 million miles away, but only visible from a small Balkan mountain town and not visible to any of the dozens of astronomical observatories pointed at the Sun on any given day, all without the gravitational stresses catastrophically disrupting the orbits of every other object in the Solar System, (and that's not a slam, it's just the setup for a piece of If/Then Logic I'm about to employ) then why is it such a stretch to imagine that God might have whispered in George Lucas's ear when that line was written? That God might have said to J. Michael Straczynski "Write this down, there's a guy in New Jersey who'll need it in 1998," when he composed the speech I use as my sig below? Speaking of, You should make an effort to track down J. Mike's latest comic series from Image: Midnight Nation. It's very much about the themes you brought up here. Issue 9 of 12 just hit the stands this month.

Scott and I agree with each other. How's that for a Christmas Miracle?

 

[red indian]

Krokus

Why must it follow that if I give a view you disaggre with it is automatically and without question "childish" or "immature" and how do you deduce from my remarks that I have not thought long and hard before hand? and what makes you feel you are better qualified than I am?

the fact that scott takes longer to say what he has to say does not of its self make his views better informed than mine. The point I was making was not that I blamed god but rather that you can make or interpret gods word to fit your own ends as the hijackers did and as people have done for centuries.

The Koran and the bible are both open to this kind of use, you can use them to justify almost anything you do. They are full of plain straight forward contradictions.

 

[qjakal]

Too...violent

Both are far too violent for my taste...a lot of "rending, smiting and gnashing" going on....wives being turned into salt and pillars of fire, children getting abandoned/sold/killed....a lotta bugs and disease....just not suitable reading for an impressionable person. Q

 

[Dave2112]

Well, you knew you weren't going to quote Star Wars without me getting involved...😀

He's right. Listen to any of Yoda's sayings (or Obi-Wan's or Qui-Gon's for that matter) and you step out of Sci-Fi and into an alternate interpretation of what we all believe anyway. The Dark Side is easier and more seductive.

If you really want to take it a step further, I think that Lucas was more on the mark than you realize with his concept of the Force. We've been looking at this from either one point of view or the other. Either God has all the Will, or Man has Freewill.

But as Obi-Wan told Luke "It controls your actions, but obeys your commands." Jedi characters in the Star Wars universe are constantly struggling with the line between control and surrender when it comes to the Force, and I believe that it's the same way with God. Yes, we have free will, but yes, God can control things if he so desires.

You must find your balance in this or you will wind up like most people. They celebrate their free will, but cry foul when God doesn't stop a plane from slamming into a mountain or something. WE can stop these things from happening! Rather than ask "Where was God when the WTC went down?", how about "Where was our Intellegence? Where was the Air Force? Where was the world's #1 information-gathering cabal?" Don't get mad, I'm not saying any of these things would have stopped this tragedy, I'm just making a point. It just seems that Man loves his free will as long it involves the fun stuff, and God can take care of the bad stuff. Not brushing your teeth will cause them to rot out of your head, and when they do, do you ask "Where was God? If He wanted my teeth brushed, He would have done it for me."?

Ok, I'm done.😎

 

[Krokus]

Red

red, I have heard the same excuse from so many people......"Why does God allow this and that?".......if you knew ANYTHING at all about the Bible and our Lord, you would understand what I meant......as for your statement being immature.......Since you are ignorant of the Bible, and the Lord in general, it made your statement "childish" and "immature".......I am a christian and have been for many years, and I can tell you know NOTHING of the Bible or the Lord, or his ways.......and that makes me more "qualified" than you.

 

[Haltickling]

Krokus and Red Indian, if you have an issue against each other, please clarify it outside of this forum. Hacking at each other here is what I'd call immature and childish, different views about the Bible are so widely spread that a controversial discussion is almost inevitable. But controversy is possible here as long as it doesn't mount up to personal attacks. Yes, this means both of you!!!

 

[Dave2112]

I have to agree with Hal here. Krokus, I know you are a good person, I've enjoyed a lot of your posts and opinions. And Red Indian, even though I find your manner to be somewhat different than what I'm used to, I understand where you're coming from, and I've given you the benefit of the doubt more often than not. It must be that British Humor thing...he he he

It seems that we have two opposite ends of the spectrum going at each other here. I can see that both of you are passionate about your views, and that's a GOOD thing. I respect you both.

I only ask that this not turn into a flame war. You are both good people, and I count you both in my small circle of friends. Why don't we call it a draw, an agreement to disagree, and say that both win?

Sound good?

Peace.😎

 

[red indian]

"When I saw her face....."

Its my fault I suppose,you can not have an objective debate with a "believer" because by definition they exclude reason and argument against what they "believe" in.

 

[qjakal]

AAargh...

Yellow flag! Foul most flagrant! No fair using Monkees songs!! If we all start doing that, it'll be carnage!! Q

 

[CitY of MicA]

very simply put

I never get involved in these debates because, if I expressed my views, I would just anger a lot of people. Sometimes you have to be comfortable enough with your own opinion to let other people's statements, with whom you disagree, stand. These discussions are always quite lively, but I would highly doubt that many people's views or attitudes are being altered. The fact that they are posed as a 'lecture' as apposed to an honest form of discourse is why they will inevitably lead to angry posts.

 

[ReturntoGod]

Peace everyone! Let's all settle down. There is no sense in bickering with one another. We can discuss things politely and with compassion. Let's not jump on one another. It serves no purpose.

I'd like to say that I thank everyone who has responded to this post, and I thank you for the way you have responded. With real care and enthusiasm. If only all the world could discuss things in such ways. I'll be the first to admit that I used to try to use linguistics to cut others down or downplay their opinion. That was very wrong of me. For that I apologize. I will not do it again.

We can accomplish so much more through understanding and compassionate discussion than we can through bickering. Thanks again to all of you for your thoughts and patience with differing views.

Scott
www.calltochrist.com

 

[red indian]

The road to damascus?

Well said scott, as you may recall I have always been in favour of letting you say what the hell you like in this forum, and I reserve the right to dissagree with you, and its a reservation which you have honoured with admirable stoicism and I respect you for that. I have taken plenty of cheap shots at you in the past and I probably will do again, and no doubt you will let me, but my scepticism, synicyism and general pesimistic outlook on life is never a bad thing in the face of blind faith.

 

[TicklingDuo]

Having been to Mdjugorje twice myself, I appreciated Scott's sharing of the latest messages. I think the problem that many other Christians have with our (Catholic's) attention to Mary is simply a misunderstanding of what we're doing...as is the case with many other Catholic teachings. Mary, to us, is honored NOT because we see her a any sort of deity, but because she is the mother of our savior. The relationship is similar to that of being in a good relationship with the mother of any other best friend...or with a mother-in-law. She plays the role perfectly because of grace given to her by God Himself. Seen as she would have herself seen, she does nothing to take us away from her son. She only hleps us to come closer to him. Catholics and other Christians have much more in common than our very human clergy would often lead us to believe. We do a disservice to our common faith and to the God in whom that faith rests by using our faith to beat on one another.

As for the fact that God allowed the events of 9-11 and other things to occur involves the mystery of free will, which he will not interfere with. Though I often have difficulty and question him on this, the bottom line is that it IS a mystery. I can't explain it any more than the next person and won't waste my time trying.

As far as the "You have your right to your opinion as long as it's the same as mine." attitude that often rears its ugly head, I want no part of that....related to Christianity or any other matter. The Catholic Church made that mistake during the years of the inquisition...something for which our present pope had the grace to offer appologies. I hope and pray that we (generic "we") don't make that mistake again.

Just my two cents.

Ann