More non-consensual videos

[BellaRisa]

"No no Jim, that's way too much effort-just let someone else do it and live vicariously...."

Bella's right, Jim. It's always someone else doing this stuff and taking the risks (physical retaliation, prison, etc), not me. Like I said, no one is worth me going to jail. While I'm completely amoral and selfish, at least give me credit for being smart enough to not risk "the skin on my own personal heinie", as Bella puts it.

No disrespect intended, but 'smart' doesn't come to mind. 'Cowardly' does. But your words actually put me at ease. I don't believe such videos are actually NC or you'd see more producers with stitches and black eyes, and since most adult men are far too intelligent, compassionate or in some cases just too admittedly lazy and chicken to really do such things it remains fantasy, as it should 😉

Bella

 

[BigJim]

Bella's right, Jim. It's always someone else doing this stuff and taking the risks (physical retaliation, prison, etc), not me. Like I said, no one is worth me going to jail. While I'm completely amoral and selfish, at least give me credit for being smart enough to not risk "the skin on my own personal heinie", as Bella puts it.

For being smart? Tee-hee. I'd give you credit for being smart if you'd spotted that Bella was being fascetious. (Or at least publicly letting on that you'd spotted it. However as it apparently went over your head (if everything goes over your head that well, I think you could be a champion limbo dancer) I think smart ain't a word I'd credit you with.)

 

[U.N.Owen]

Kudos, kudos to Bella and BigJim.

You've saved me the trouble of making the points I was going to make -- you've made them all so well already!

(But am I then living vicariously through your posts.... ?)

 

[Deleted member 2452]

what's so exciting about it?

i just don't get it, what's so great about doing something(that's so much fun as tickling)with a woman who doesn't want to?

where's the fun? where's the mutual enjoyment? where's the stimulation? to do something with a woman who doesn't like, or want it would be a complete turn off for me (and any normal person).

i saw p.v.'s first n.c. video, and thought it sucked. i loaned it to an on-line aquantance (a cop in new york) he stole it, and never returned it! lol. i wouldn't have minded, except i paid for the friggin thing! and wanted to loan it to a few other friends. to the point though; i found it uncomfortable to watch. it was plain wrong. they should have gone to jail (if it was real).

non-con is dark, sick stuff, and should never be done in real life. it spoils the beauty that tickling can be.
steve

 

[sole seeker]

Re: what's so exciting about it?

i just don't get it, what's so great about doing something(that's so much fun as tickling) with a woman who doesn't want to?

where's the fun? where's the mutual enjoyment? where's the stimulation? to do something with a woman who doesn't like, or want it would be a complete turn off for me (and any normal person)...

non-con is dark, sick stuff, and should never be done in real life. it spoils the beauty that tickling can be.
steve

I couldn't have said it better, so I won't even try. Thanks Steve.

 

[BigJim]

Re: what's so exciting about it?

i just don't get it, what's so great about doing something(that's so much fun as tickling)with a woman who doesn't want to?

where's the fun? where's the mutual enjoyment? where's the stimulation? to do something with a woman who doesn't like, or want it would be a complete turn off for me (and any normal person).

non-con is dark, sick stuff, and should never be done in real life. it spoils the beauty that tickling can be.
steve

I think some people like myself who are quite heavilly dom, get a thrill from the idea of tickling someone against their will. But this usually involves a few seconds of kicking and shrieking, rather than 30 minutes of hysteria and what amounts to criminal assault.

If I reduced a lee to the state they reduced that hooker to, I'd not be able to live with myself.

 

[BellaRisa]

Re: Re: what's so exciting about it?

I think some people like myself who are quite heavilly dom, get a thrill from the idea of tickling someone against their will. But this usually involves a few seconds of kicking and shrieking, rather than 30 minutes of hysteria and what amounts to criminal assault.

Now first, let me say that this shouldn't dissolve into insults, manofmystery has views that are displeasing to many of us but he has a right to them. I don't like his ideas but they don't make him a bad guy.


Now then. As a submissive, I find the notion of being firmly but lovingly controlled incredibly sexy and appealing. A dominant who knows my body and can give me just a little bit more than I thought I could handle is a precious thing indeed. Pushing that envelope is what makes the experience for some of us, being taken to that edge where you're breathless and mindless and slick with sweat and you'd beg if you could stop shrieking long enough but he just won't stop chewing on that one toe DAMN him...

(Ahem) Sorry, I digress . As I was saying, being in the control of another is a wonderful thing for some of us, but it's what we want. That's why it's far cooler to me when the 'lee has a safeword that she knows she can use, but feels honor bound not to. Trust me on this, when that one rib is being worked and worked and you'd gladly climb out of your skin but you can't make yourself give in and scream that one word that would lead to freedom...that inner conflict murder, and so very hot. Give me that anytime over some model who hates everyone in the room and is only there because the producer either lied to her or us.

Bella

 

[Dirkman]

Re: Re: Re: Re: More non-consensual videos

You haven't proven it wrong, dear. If this girl doesn't fear you as you say and trusts you for whatever reasons, she's comfortable with you. From the stupendously romantic interlude you described 🙄, you're doing and saying a few things that she likes, to make it worth her while to be there. That's an important factor, and quite different from "The laughter is then just a helpless reflex, devoid of any enjoyment at all.", to quote the original poster to whom I was replying.

You'd still have to pay for not listening to the word STOP, but perhaps not quite so harshly

Bella

You know, you are absolutely right. I'll give you this one Bella. I do however take it that you won't be buying any of my romantic novels anytime soon... 🙂
Dirk

 

[Dirkman]

As I've read more through the thread, I'm appalled at how people have attacked the original poster for simply being honest. I for one commend him for taking all the crap that people have given him and sticking to his truth.

It is true that I like non consensual tickling, and yes, if there was a video out there where some dominant bitch hottie was tricked into bondage and tickled under her will, I'd buy it. It is the whole idea of helpless laughter from a rebelious victim that gives me this fetish. This might not be cool to some people and I can understand that but I didn't choose it, it chose me. Years ago when most of the tickling content was found on the usenet in newsgroups such as AMT and ABMET, there would be postings of stories almost every day. 90% OF THESE STORIES WERE ABOUT KIDNAPS, PUNISHMENTS, AND NONCONSENSUAL INTERROGATIONS. What does this say to me??? That I am not alone in my thoughts and neither is the original poster. I come to places like this one so that I can share these thoughts, as unethical as they are, with like minded people. I honestly don't like the fact that my fetish has immoral attributes to it, but the way to help the situation is surely not to be ridiculed or to be called a coward. Thats all I have to say for now. Ok one more thing. Tickling is really boring to me if the "victim" doesn't hate it.
Dirk

 

[buggs]

First off both videos where faked. Go look in one of the posts on this site regarding that video and you will see exactly that they were faked. Although I have never seen it, and don't care to, I have heard from people who have seen it and they told me that you can easily tell it was faked. It was sensationalism. Second, no way would Paradise Vision could ever have gotten away doing what they claimed they got away with legally. The girl could have went to the cops, taken it to trial as a civil suit, and gotten way more money for it. Further more what they did, had it been real, would have fallen under the guidelines of kidnapping and that is a federal offense. That is why no one will do a non-consensual tickling video that you had stated in the first post to this thread. It is not only wrong, but also a federal offense. Did I mention it is wrong morally and ethically too? The company fed you guys a line. But you got on tape what you thought was your fantasy, so it shouldn’t matter to you guys who like non-consensual stuff.

 

[BigJim]

First off both videos where faked. Go look in one of the posts on this site regarding that video and you will see exactly that they were faked. Although I have never seen it, and don't care to, I have heard from people who have seen it and they told me that you can easily tell it was faked.

Well I've seen it and I personally think it was real. I expect there's other people who've seen it and believe it was real too. If that girl in Non-Con 1 was an actress, she deserved an Oscar for her performance. It sounds like you're basing your own opinion on conjecture. From what I've heard from people who have viewed it, the opinion is split. I have serious doubts about the second Non-Con PV one though. The lee involved was a professional interior designer. A whole different kettle of fish to a prostitute and a whole lot less likely to be trusted not to run to the police.

It was sensationalism. Second, no way would Paradise Vision could ever have gotten away doing what they claimed they got away with legally. The girl could have went to the cops, taken it to trial as a civil suit, and gotten way more money for it.

No she could'nt have gone to the cops, because she was a prostitute and she'd have had to tell them that she went there of her own free will to commit a criminal offence. I've lost count of the times I've heard of call-girls who've been raped on the job and felt they could'nt report it to us because they thought we'd end up charging them for solicitation. It's heartbreaking, but it's true. The hooker who'd report something as "mundane" as being tickled against her will would be the bravest one in the world. As for making money in a civil suit, she'd have to bet it would be more than she'd be fined for solicitation.

Further more what they did, had it been real, would have fallen under the guidelines of kidnapping and that is a federal offense.

I seriously doubt that. she went to the house/hotel/whatever of her own free will and was put into bondage of her own free will. The UK and the US have their differences, but we wouldn't class it as kidnapping. Here it would be a joint charge of false imprisonment and common assault. If anyone can rule on that, it'll be Areenactor. He was a cop in Chicago for years, so he would know the ins and outs; including I imagine whether or not it would have been a state or federal charge. I think (from my limited knowledge of American law) that both charges are too minor to be considered Federal.

That is why no one will do a non-consensual tickling video that you had stated in the first post to this thread.

So you're not including the one that RealTickling (TC) did then? That's a video I actually own, although it's much different in atmosphere to the PV one. The girl being tickled was already a close friend of the ler, and wasn't in fear of her life or safety. Just pissed off about being tickled.

 

[aphrael]

aphrael: (with big round innocent eyes) I think you should *care* about whoever you tickle...maybe that's just me.

 

[BellaRisa]

To Dirk

Hi Dirk,

As I said earlier, the original poster has every right to his opinions and doesn't deserve to be insulted. When I mentioned the word 'coward', I was referring to the attitudes and behavior described-not the man in question, whom I don't even know. I'm sorry, but I can't apologize for my words; I have a right to my opinion, which is that it's chicken and heinous to support video people doing the dangerous/illegal/just plain mean-spirited activities that you would never have the chutzpah to do yourself. Manofmystery clearly stated that he condoned other people risking themselves in this way, opening himself up to less than affectionate replies. As a female who has both topped and bottomed in fetish videos, I find such ideas very disturbing. I applaud his honesty; I shudder at his notions.

Now let me make this very clear: I LIKE NC TICKLING. Girls who just lie there giggling bore the bejeezus out of me, watching the agony and struggling as she loses her mind is part of the fun. But there are ways to achieve that without being a liar, and getting a girl tied under false pretenses makes you a ROTTEN LIAR no matter how many others might want to see it on tape.

Please understand, I can't emphasize this enough: it's not the desire to see real NC stuff that bothers me, it's the disregard for the violated girl in question-and for the video person who could have his or her *ss kicked once the ropes come off. When you post about not caring what happens to other people, you're probably not going to like the responses.

I think empathy is the key here. If everyone who wants such videos found themselves securely tied for an activity they enjoyed, then instead had something that they absolutely HATED done to them over and over for about an hour even though they clearly stated that they truly HATED it, then had a wad of bills thrown at them to keep quiet, I suspect there'd be a lot fewer threads of this nature. And a rash of emergency room visits for vidcam removal.

Bella

 

[BigJim]

As I've read more through the thread, I'm appalled at how people have attacked the original poster for simply being honest. I for one commend him for taking all the crap that people have given him and sticking to his truth.

Sure he was honest. I'll also be honest and admit that I find non-consensual tickling arousing as well. But I think there's a marked difference between wrestling a girl down and tickling her because she loves to hate it and tricking a prostitute into being tickled against her will. Because of the situation she could be forgiven for thinking she was going to end up as worm food afterwards. She certainly seemed to be in fear of her own safety; she begged them to let her go by pleading "I won't say anything" often enough. She didn't actually lose her temper outwardly until it was obvious to her that they weren't going to put her under the floorboards. If objecting to someone encouraging that sort of activity is "giving them crap" then give me the Crap Giver Of The Year Award. It'll get pride of place on my mantelpiece. The objection isn't to his pecadillos (hell, we're all burdened with them)or his saying he finds the video erotic, it's the way he thinks it's okay to carry fantasies out.

It is true that I like non consensual tickling, and yes, if there was a video out there where some dominant bitch hottie was tricked into bondage and tickled under her will, I'd buy it. It is the whole idea of helpless laughter from a rebelious victim that gives me this fetish. This might not be cool to some people and I can understand that but I didn't choose it, it chose me.

It's cool to me actually, because I find that scenario to be an arousing one. But the "helpless laughter from a rebellious victim" doesn't have to be forced frmo a girl who is terrified. Not just angry at being tickled, but terrified for her safety. The main problem I had with the PV video was that the girl was extremely frightened for her own safety. How do you think most hookers would feel if they were tied down, prevented from calling for help (both by gagging and shutting the windows to make sure no-one could hear her cries) when they did something that was'nt agreed to beforehand AND they expressly said they hated? Being a hooker doesn't give them less human rights or make it any less wrong to commit criminal assault and false imprisonment on them. I can't get past the fact that it's a criminal act (IF it was real) and in the case of Paradise Vision's first non-con video, an extremely traumatising and immoral one.

A lot of us have the inclination to see someone tickled and made to "suffer", to one degree or another. But this video was way too extreme. I think it shows the actual manifestation of what worst about our community. If you think of tickling videos as our community's "porn", then this is equivalent of one of those rape videos that people keep geting SPAM'ed about.

 

[BigJim]

Re: To Dirk

I think empathy is the key here. If everyone who wants such videos found themselves securely tied for an activity they enjoyed, then instead had something that they absolutely HATED done to them over and over for about an hour even though they clearly stated that they truly HATED it, then had a wad of bills thrown at them to keep quiet, I suspect there'd be a lot fewer threads of this nature.

A-bloody-men!!! I tried to say more or less that, but failed miserably and waffled on innefectually for hours. lol

And a rash of emergency room visits for vidcam removal.

Bella

Call the proctologist!!! 😀

 

[BigJim]

aphrael: (with big round innocent eyes) I think you should *care* about whoever you tickle...maybe that's just me.

Nah, it's not just you. Most of us feel the same. 🙂

 

[BigJim]

Re: To Dirk

Now let me make this very clear: I LIKE NC TICKLING. Girls who just lie there giggling bore the bejeezus out of me, watching the agony and struggling as she loses her mind is part of the fun.

I don't think what you describe IS non-con tickling Bella. I think it's just the attitude of a consenting lee you differentiate on.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

i thin kwe must have a lawyer or 2 that are smarter than i.

but i think the words are being misused here.
i think what some are trying to say is that it would be a "felony" not a federal crime. and that's opposed to a "misdomener".
if such a crime took place, it would depend on several aspects of the crime. was she hurt, esp. any cuts that drew blood, would have an impact. how long was she held, where was she tickled on her body. etc.
i think a good district attourny could make felony charges stick, and conversly a good defense attourny could make a jury burn her at the stake for being a hooker. but one thing is for sure, if that was a real video, and not staged, it was criminal.

my previous coments on the original thread topic were not really ment to be an insult to the poster. i jsut don't see the sexual enjoyment factor here. at least that's what i was trying to impart.
fantasy tickling of someone is normal, but from the repeated postings by some, they were not into fantasy, they wanted to see someone abused, and i fear, that is not normal.
steve

 

[BigJim]

Hmmmmm. Well the only cut that drew blood was when she bit the guy's hand when he tried to put it over her mouth. He deserved that at least!

I'd guess she was held for between 45 and 60 minutes (taking into account a 30 minute video with occasional breaks for changing camera angles and edited footage) and she was tickled on her feet, ribs and armpits.


And yeah, the federal/felony & state/misdemeanor thing is the ticket, I think. I should brush up on that or ask the FBI dude at the embassy when I finally get round to ringing him. 🙄




"fantasy tickling of someone is normal, but from the repeated postings by some, they were not into fantasy, they wanted to see someone abused, and i fear, that is not normal."


Amen.

 

[buggs]

I believe that since they did that to her, if it was a real video, against her own free will, while she is tied up, that it may fall under kidnapping charges if the Fed’s pushed it. And as far as the Police not doing anything about it because she is a hooker, because of what happened, oh yeah they would get involved and pursue it. And trust me, had she wanted to pursue anything, even after the fact, even after signing a contract saying she wouldn’t go to the cops, they would have nailed them. She could have said “I was tied up and under extreme duress. They violated my rights and I was scared for my life, and the only way I felt I could get out of the situation was to sign it.” And I believe she still could have pursued it in the courts and possibly won. I also don’t believe her pimp, or agency, would have let them get away with it either as the girl could have filed suit on them for sending her into a dangerous situation. I am not a lawyer, but I believe that whole scenario, if real, had lawsuit all over it if it had been real.

The other reason why I believe it was faked is because of the one post from the video professional made here earlier in the year. The cuts that happen near the same time length and give the appearance that they gave her a break. Before the cut she is frustrated and pissed, after the cut she is lighter in tone. Also the Blair Witch ending, come on. I talked to gab a few times about how much we both loved Blair Witch Project, and I was just waiting for her to steal ideas and put them in the video. Or the cut near the end where it was supposed to be a cut of a few seconds but the white balance goes out in between the cut. That is a clear sign that the camera was on pause for too long and did an automatic shut down and they forgot to white balance it again. And remember, they are in LA. Do you know how many out of work actress’ there are who would do this with some sort of convincing performance to pay the bills? I shouldn’t say that I never saw it as I did see a short clip, and, from what I saw, she was acting and so was he. Even though I haven’t seen it, I stand by the people I know who have that can spot a fake.

 

[Mimi]

One thing to keep in mind here, and it's something Bella touched on as well, is that you can get very CLOSE to a non-con scenario, with a lee who is into tickling.

With many of us lees, we are, in a sense, masochists. Sure we're into tickling. Sure we get aroused by the delicious sensations. But many of us also HATE being tickled, and our interest in tickling comes because we LOVE to HATE. Ask those who tied and tickled me at GLAT. If any of them did not know I was into tickling, they would have told you that I was clearly being tickled against my will. I fight like a DEMON to get loose. I thrash so hard I end up with severe chaffing and friction burns on my wrists and ankles from pulling and twisting in the bondage. I swear, I scream, I cry, I threaten, and aside from my helpless laughter, I give NO indication that I am 'enjoying' what's being done to me.

That is the exact reaction those who are into NC desire. You CAN feed that sadistic desire to torture against ones will, with a completely willing lee. You just need to hook up with the right kind.

Mimi

 

[Ticklerdes]

My two cents...again

I never cease to amaze myself at how many times I've "said all I have to say" in one argument. Well, here goes again.


People cannot control their desires. If their sexual turn ons are (what some would consider) sick twisted torture, or dark sadistic yadda yadda, so bloody be it. This cannot be helped.

I, unfortunately, am one of those people who loves non-consensual tickling. Why? Well, I have numerous physiological and neurological theories as to how this fetish of mine developed, but it is now a part of me. But Hark! (are you harking?) because there is something else!

It is a sexual turn on for me to see a women tickled against her will. HOWEVER I would NEVER (note the big ominous capital letters) condone it to ACTUALLY be done. Why? Because it's not for me to decide how to use/abuse somebody else's body for my own personal amusement. As much as it would indeed amuse me, it's wrong. People have the ability to control their loins for cripes sake. Now, this isn't to say that whenever I tickle a gal, I warn her and ask permission first. In real life, the vast majority of times I tickle somebody is after, say there's a comfy chair in the room, and a girl steals it from me. I'd tickle her as "punishment." Do I see this as an abuse? Not really. Because use common sense, it's obvious that I'm not torturing her. If, however, I would cross that fine line which is quite apparent, THEN it would be wrong. I'd like to cross the line, but wouldn't, because that's wrong.

I believe I've said all I have to say.

 

[BellaRisa]

Re: Re: To Dirk

I don't think what you describe IS non-con tickling Bella. I think it's just the attitude of a consenting lee you differentiate on.

Depends on how she got there in the first place . Along with interrogation scenes, my favorite stories and real life tickling experiences tend to involve the bratty girl who's been pestering her boyfriend or whoever until he snaps, and she ends up being tickled senseless as punishment/payback. (also works for spanking material btw). That's not a consenting 'lee who wants to be there and loves to hate it, yet it's very different from the type of lie-then-tie material we've been condemning. This is really the only category in which I remotely condone noncon play, because the 'lee fully deserves to be shown no mercy but is obviously safe and cared for. And yes, I believe it can be filmed properly and satisfy the NC fans 😉

Bella

 

[redway10]

Well this thread isn't exactly the same as the last 10 non-con debates...

These threads really grind down the issue of non-consensual sexual fantasies (to a fine powder).

However, this time I want to ask those who so proudly declare their condemnation of non-con tickling:

How is non-consensual tickling different from all of the other "line-crossing" fantasies that people have and all of the mean things that "ordinary" people do to each other? Just look at the way people treat each other on the road...

Where is all the indignation at people's general 'inner savage'? I see so much selfishness and apathy every day, I truly wonder whether the other motivators are much of a factor at all.

 

[Daumantas]

O MY GOD!

I can't believe we're having this argument AGAIN for what seems like the quadrillionth time!

What points can anyone POSSIBLY make that haven't been made over, and over, and over, and over and over and over on either side of this issue?

Look...(and, I swear, if you kids make me get up again...) it's like this - you either like non-com tickling fantasies, or you don't. If you don't, you will never understand why people do. If you do, you will never understand why people don't. You will never be able to explain your side of this issue to people because there's no logic behind either position (if you don't believe me, just imagine trying to explain this controversy to the vanillas - "well, I only get all excited and hot over certain kinds of tickling...")

And yes, we ALL know by now that there's a difference between fantasy and reality. Do we HAVE to keep making this disclaimer all the time?

I don't understand why some people like certain things, like cilantro, or sniffing glue, or Billy Joel, or the Houston Astros, but I just accept the fact that I can't get inside their heads, and that's that.

Just acknowledge that you don't get what other people are thinking, and move on, ok?