buggs said:
Well she was shooting exclusively on hi-8 at that time, and most likely on a two-hour tape, as that is what is mostly available in stores. The video was what? An hour? So if it were real time she would have had plenty of tape. I know she has batteries to last for that type of shoot so she didn't run out of power, but she most likely used the ac power chord.
Uh-huh. Your reasons might be right, they might be wrong. This whole premise is based mainly on supposition. And what about the one's Steve suggested that I notice you didn't respond to? To quote Steve..."
i have seen the video in question (as i said before), and i think it was real. breaks in the action? sure, "john's hands cramped up?, they wanted a new angle? ran out of film? dod anyone stop and concider that what we saw, was an edited copy, and that the tickling may have been going on for hours???"
Remember that? The video might have been 3 hours long, but edited for the final release. Ask Jeff or Brian, they've both got oodles of footage on the cutting room floor that they didn't use.There is no "proof" of anything, despite what you seem to be convinced of Buggs. You have some knowledge of the workings of video cameras, but you have to admit that myself and Steve have knowledge that's relavent too. Our reasoning has just as much if not more foundation in logic as yours does. All we can say at this juncure is that it's up for debate and right now the debate is based on what PV have said, namely that it was really non-con. Sure they might be lying, I allow for that possibility. But there is also very strong reasoning for thinking the first one was genuinely non-consensual.
buggs said:
As far as her stopping to have a walk, do you think if someone is doing something that they know if that girl doesn’t sign they are in deep legal shit he is going to take time to go and have a wank? Or that she would wank him? She was reportedly mad enough to bit his hand, why would she wank him later on. She would be more pissed at him.
Dude, please! Use some common sense! I was refering to the girl behind the camera, not the girl on the bed. And if they were sick enough to conceive the idea and act it out, then they're quite capable of getting off on it too. I'm only suprised they didn't put that in the video as well.
🙄
buggs said:
And the biggest thing is, this is way too much a gamble on her actually agreeing to sign papers after doing this for an hour. And she chased them out of the room right? What stopped her from going to the Motel Manager and yelling at him "Get the cops over here now! Those guys tied me up and tickled me!" and staying in the motel office till the cops got there if she was so ticked off? She was chasing them out of the room right and not the other way around?
No she wasn't chasing them out of the room. Once again I think you've assumed something about something you've not seen more than 2 or 3 minutes of. Once she had been released she went for "John" trying to hit and scratch him and he had to hold her back. And also we don't know what sort of building it was in. The camerawoman makes reference to the "neighbours" at one point, so it's easy to suggest it was in their home. In which case, there would be no manager to call out to.
buggs said:
And as far as her not going to the cops because she is a prostitute and they wouldn’t listen to her? She can easily go to “Vice” and have it taken care of in exchange for info. They may need on something else. She is the ones that had the all the cards. And, if it was real, her John would have said something cause she could have told him to take a hike and he "loses one of his girls” See there is too many variables that, if this was real, would have seriously screwed PV legally.
Eh? She is able to do any of these things but as I said and Steve confirmed (IF you were listening which I doubt) a tiny fraction of girls who suffer rape in the course of their soliciting actually report it. whether or not she'd have a case is irrelavent as to whether she'd report it. If a raped girl is hardly likely to, then a tickled one is even less so. Especially as she's more than likely to feel quite stupid for doing it. She went there of her free will. Likewise with getting into the bondage. She then is assaulted in a manner that leaves no physical injury, but causes her a lot of emotional upset. We know she'd have a case, because we can talk about it at length. She on the other hand had no such luxury. The chances of her reporting it are next to neglibable.
I honestly think you're talking about somethnig you know little about when you talk about the chances of her reporting the assault. Both Steve and myself know from experience that far more serious incidents are rarely reported because the girls THINK we wouldn't help them. The opposite is the case. Obviously we would, in fact we spend damn good money on advertising that fact. That doesn't stop the FACT that dozens of them still don't report it, because of their fears. Trust me Buggs. That is cold, hard, FACT!
buggs said:
And as far as her not having a case after signing the papers, like I said, all a lawyer would have to do was say “She signed it under duress. She was tied and tickled for hours. She was so upset she bit the guy’s hand and she protested to be let out throughout the entire video but they didn’t let her out. So you can see she was afraid, and they weren’t listening to her so she felt she had to sign it to get out of the situation.” They would have nullified that release form in two seconds.
Que? Once again you've gotten what Steve and I said wrong. Neither one of us said anything about her not having a case because she signed the papers. (Apart from the fact that she didn't sign them under duress because the signing occured some days later apparently.) That being the case, it's obvious that the point you just made wasn't even being contested. It's not possible for a human being in the West to sign away their human rights. Signing release consent forms doesn't change the fact that it was assault and false imprisonment, it just says that she consents to their selling it for a fee payable to her.
buggs said:
In fact, all her lawyer would have had to do was show the tape in court and, by that alone, if it was so vicious and against her will, PV would have easily lost. All the evidence was captured on tape. And she is no were on tape saying, “oh I signed papers and everything is cool”. So she could easily say she signed them under duress. The fact is it was a fake. Plain and simple.
Yeah, and the point you're making is? In that paragraph you've stated the obvious about something most of us agree on, but you're saying it as if we said something to the contrary. How closely are you reading what we actually write Buggs? And it being a fake is something that is up for debate. It may be a fact in your opinion, but that doesn't make it so in reality. It's anything but plain and simple with all the contrary evidence there is to your view.
buggs said:
If you think she wouldn’t lie about it, go and do a search of things she has posted in AMT and you will see conflicting posts by her. One post she said she grew up with Gia and tickled her all the time. A post by her a year or two later and she says "I never grew up with Gia and didn't meet her till last year so I never knew I had a sister" or something like that. That is not a direct quote, but if you search you can find it on there. What I am saying is it is all hype and you are buying into it.
Gabrielle's penchant for lying, bullshit and general bad behaviour are very well known on the TMF. I and most people are well aware that she defames rival companies, slanders them at any chance and is generally a know-nothing wise-ass about people like Jeff and Brian. I do agree that Pv fed the hyp and I'm sure that people like me slamming the video and the company helped boost the sales. I'm pretty sure that PV could've made their fortune based on sales of that vid alone.
buggs said:
She got a convincing out-of-work actress and filmed it. That is all it is. I mean girls move to L.A. by the millions every year with high acting skills to make it in the movies. She didn't have to go that far to find one.
Again your'e assuming something about a film you've never seen more than a clip of and only heard other people's opinions on. In myself and Steve you've got two people who've been both trained to spot and eal with and experienced in handling traumatised women; not to mention we've actually seen the entire video as it was released. It isn't that hard to tell an actress from a girl who is acting. Just try looking at the standard of it in some of FM's videos. And don't forget, we've seen the videos in question. We've got more first hand evidence to base our opinions on than you have. Doesn't make us any more important than you, but I would imagine that most other people would allow for the possibility that they might not be right. Even in this case, I allow for myself being wrong.
buggs said:
It was a fake. Just like her posting in a flyer she sent out to a lot of people (Not actual quote from flyer) “…and no Kamiano and I are not going out, or lovers. We are just friends.” when they were lovers that whole time. She lies. She will say and do anything to make a buck or get what she wants, and many here can testify to being lied to by her. Don’t take my word for it. Go and do a search for her screen name in AMT and you will find her lies for yourself.
As I already said, I know just to what depths she will sink to make a buck. That's the reason I stopped giving Paradise Vidion custom. It's a shame because they've made some damn fine tickling videos.
. No one is actually violated in the theatre of your mind.
. Along with interrogation scenes, my favorite stories and real life tickling experiences tend to involve the bratty girl who's been pestering her boyfriend or whoever until he snaps, and she ends up being tickled senseless as punishment/payback. (also works for spanking material btw). That's not a consenting 'lee who wants to be there and loves to hate it, yet it's very different from the type of lie-then-tie material we've been condemning. This is really the only category in which I remotely condone noncon play, because the 'lee fully deserves to be shown no mercy but is obviously safe and cared for. And yes, I believe it can be filmed properly and satisfy the NC fans 
