RPG Maker Translation Coordination

[Lummie]

Screamer's trying to repackage it as a smaller download. I'm trying to help him work out what he can and can't delete.

Ah okay. 🙂 Thanks for the update! While we're on the topic...I don't really get why filesize seems to be important for alot of people on this board, haven't noticed that anywhere else. I figure 99% of people will be able to download 200 mbs or even 500 within a few minutes, so what's the point in making devs work more just for a few megabytes?

That was more of a general opinion towards the recent filesize discussion, not really directed at tickle mansion. 🙂

 

[Screamer811]

It's just a loss of time.
I can upload the game without the rtp.....but you still NEED the damn rtp, even if not used.
I know, it's a pain....

 

[Lummie]

It's just a loss of time.
I can upload the game without the rtp.....but you still NEED the damn rtp, even if not used.
I know, it's a pain....

Personally I'm all for just posting the game and then people can download the RTP if they don't have it yet or if the game's not working...but that's just me. ^^

 

[Screamer811]

Personally I'm all for just posting the game and then people can download the RTP if they don't have it yet or if the game's not working...but that's just me. ^^

Sadly, it's the only option!

 

[LurkLurkLurk]

For some reason, Tickle Mansion does not look in the folder where the RTP gets installed, meaning you're forced to COPY all of the crap into the Tickle Mansion folder. That means having 200MB of crap sitting on your disk, plus an additional 200MB per RPG Maker VX Ace game you have. Very wasteful.

Space is cheap, these days, so a couple games can probably get away with it, but it gets under my skin. I'm going to see if I can get TM going without requiring the whole RTP, just to see if it can be done. I have a feeling that it will work if we only include image/audio resources referenced in the game.

EDIT: Screamer's release will be fine; don't wait for mine. I'm just pioneering, because I'm stubborn.

 

[dalfgan]

I still think creating empty files and renaming them is the easiest solution, if the game doesn't need the files. Can't be that difficult to write a script which takes a file list from a folder, creates new files, renames them and replaces the old files...

List list = folder.getFileList()
for (file f : list)
create file (f.getName())
replace the files

something like that...

 

[LurkLurkLurk]

Your solution, as proposed, would nuke all of the images and all of the sounds, even the ones actually being used by the game.

That doesn't eliminate having to figure out which files are used, which is the real problem. The data files are in a crufty format, so one does not simply grep into Mordor for lines containing "volume", /.+\.ogg/ or /.+\.mp3/ when trying to figure out which sound files to replace or delete.

 

[AnimeWatcher1]

I'm with cay on this. Users should realize these games are going to be bigger than videos, stories, pictures, or anything else you find on TT because of aaalllll the files that are put together to make the game whole. It's exactly like downloading a digital version of a game through Steam or similar service.

If someone wants to play these games, they should (ahead of time) download and install the RTP separately. It's not like it costs anything to do, and once they have it installed they never have to worry about it again (unless a different RPG Maker is used). That's just how RPG Maker games work - you have to download the "engine" to play the game. A lot of games these days are gigs worth in size so these games shouldn't really upset anyone. Just think of the RTP as a large DirectX download.

I am quite curious to know why Tickle Mansion isn't looking at the RTP. A bug perhaps with Ace? I know you have the new RTP for Ace installed, you wouldn't be able to play the game, much less translate or modify it. I'll do some searching to try and find answers on that. Are you sure it's the RTP it can't find? Does it give any error messages?



BTW, Did a quick search online - this looks to be the only alternative to having someone download the RTP separately:

"The easiest way is to check "Include RTP Data" in the "Compress Game Data" window (File->Compress Game Data). This way has a very big disadvantage: your EXE needs about 190 MB more space!

The preferable way is to open the Game.ini and remove the line: "RTP=RPGVXAce".
If you use the RTP you need to copy all used files to the corresponding folder (in your game folder). The RTP files are usually located at "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Enterbrain\RGSS3\RPGVXAce" (32-bit) or "C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Enterbrain\RGSS3\RPGVXAce" (64-bit). Just copy them. You don't need to use the "Resource Manager". Disadvantage: requires much work when you use most RTP resources or don't know which you use. "

 

[LurkLurkLurk]

By manually pruning the database and removing unused RTP files, I shrank it to ~25% of the size of the RTP: 52MB. It runs from start to end with no need for cumbersome stuff like downloading the RTP or copying its contents. With Screamer81's permission, I'll upload it. (Game data is encrypted, per his request.)

I am quite curious to know why Tickle Mansion isn't looking at the RTP. A bug perhaps with Ace?

If you don't have a "required file" (e.g. a sound file that's played during the game), the game will crash when it looks for that file, if the file isn't present. The stupid thing is that if you call Audio\BGM\Town1.ogg, for example, it doesn't look in $gamedir\Audio\BGM\Town1.ogg and then fall back on looking in $rtpdir\Audio\BGM\Town1.ogg.

I know you have the new RTP for Ace installed, you wouldn't be able to play the game, much less translate or modify it.

You can open the game for editing even if there's reference to missing files. If the RTP is just a bunch of resource files...

I'll do some searching to try and find answers on that. Are you sure it's the RTP it can't find? Does it give any error messages?

Save yourself the effort. It just complains if it can't find a file referenced by name. I just think it's stupid to not fall back to checking the RTP directory. It sort of defeats the purpose of putting it in ...\Common Files\... if it never looks there.

 

[Lummie]

By manually pruning the database and removing unused RTP files, I shrank it to ~25% of the size of the RTP: 52MB. It runs from start to end with no need for cumbersome stuff like downloading the RTP or copying its contents. With Screamer81's permission, I'll upload it. (Game data is encrypted, per his request.)

Haha I can totally see why you'd do that, annoying when you think something -should- work but it just doesn't. If that's the only solution though, I don't think many people will be able to do that/want to do that, I assume that was quite a few hours worth of work?

Good job nonetheless. 🙂 And I do agree that it's silly it wouldn't fall back on the RTP folder if it can't find a file in the game dir...might be a good suggestion for the devs.

A lot of games these days are gigs worth in size so these games shouldn't really upset anyone. Just think of the RTP as a large DirectX download.

A bit offtopic but I actually wonder if games really need to be as huge as they are now. For example, I downloaded Shogun 2's standalone addon yesterday, 22 gigs. But on the other hand, Skyrim(biggest game I can think of right now) is only 5,6 gb. I don't really mind, I've just been wondering if it has to do with bad coding or whatever.

 

[LurkLurkLurk]

Haha I can totally see why you'd do that, annoying when you think something -should- work but it just doesn't. If that's the only solution though, I don't think many people will be able to do that/want to do that, I assume that was quite a few hours worth of work?

If it's done while putting the game together, it's very little work. Now, if you're given a giant game that uses like 60% of the files and you have to read every map and most of the database to figure out which parts were actually used, then yeah, it'll be a long, long time.

Good job nonetheless. 🙂 And I do agree that it's silly it wouldn't fall back on the RTP folder if it can't find a file in the game dir...might be a good suggestion for the devs.

Yeah. I'm too lazy to contact them, but anyone's welcome to tell them and take credit for having found the bug.

A bit offtopic but I actually wonder if games really need to be as huge as they are now. For example, I downloaded Shogun 2's standalone addon yesterday, 22 gigs. But on the other hand, Skyrim(biggest game I can think of right now) is only 5,6 gb. I don't really mind, I've just been wondering if it has to do with bad coding or whatever.

tl;dr game length ≠ resource size

It's a combination of design trade-offs, coding, resource reuse, and other factors.

Skyrim comes with some pretty low resolution textures out of the box because they also targeted consoles. Higher-res, fan-released textures, probably without full game coverage, are about 2.2GB. Bethesda figured—correctly!—that those would be "good enough" for people to buy it on PC, even if their game doesn't get them heralded as the new Crytek. Skyrim's PC version also had an idiotic RAM cap appropriate for consoles, for a while. Thankfully, Bethesda releases all of those mod tools, and has a player-base dedicated enough to fix lots of their games' shortcomings.

World of Warcraft installs, with all expansions, are probably >20GB by now, because of sheer content quantity. I imagine if Blizzard could have shrank it much without making sacrifices, they would.

 

[Who am I?1]

Wait a moment. Tickle Mansion is already fully translated?

 

[Screamer811]

Yup!

 

[AnimeWatcher1]

If it's done while putting the game together, it's very little work. Now, if you're given a giant game that uses like 60% of the files and you have to read every map and most of the database to figure out which parts were actually used, then yeah, it'll be a long, long time.

Yeah. I'm too lazy to contact them, but anyone's welcome to tell them and take credit for having found the bug.



tl;dr game length ≠ resource size

It's a combination of design trade-offs, coding, resource reuse, and other factors.

Skyrim comes with some pretty low resolution textures out of the box because they also targeted consoles. Higher-res, fan-released textures, probably without full game coverage, are about 2.2GB. Bethesda figured—correctly!—that those would be "good enough" for people to buy it on PC, even if their game doesn't get them heralded as the new Crytek. Skyrim's PC version also had an idiotic RAM cap appropriate for consoles, for a while. Thankfully, Bethesda releases all of those mod tools, and has a player-base dedicated enough to fix lots of their games' shortcomings.

World of Warcraft installs, with all expansions, are probably >20GB by now, because of sheer content quantity. I imagine if Blizzard could have shrank it much without making sacrifices, they would.

The fact you kept saying everything I wanted to mention is somewhat scary - like 20 GB is MMO size (with WoW being the reference I'd use) and Bethesda's somewhat sloppy PC port (thank you soooo much mod community, from your cussing mud crabs to MLP dragons to HD textures to just having the sunrise actually have light bloom and look real; and super big thanks to the 4 GB ram mod before Bethesda placed "their own" into the game).

Still...22 GB...Freakin ridiculous.

Also, RPG Maker not using the RTP as a backup probably isn't a bug. What you're seeing is likely the limitations/simplicity of the Maker. If the file you were using was originally in the game directory, it'll go there. If it can't find it, it'll go retarded. In comparison, it's probably just like a shortcut on Windows. It follows a specific directory to the file, and if the file gets moved or deleted the shortcut throws a fit. It's not like you can setup multiple file paths to the Maker when you're working on a project.

 

[LurkLurkLurk]

Also, RPG Maker not using the RTP as a backup probably isn't a bug. What you're seeing is likely the limitations/simplicity of the Maker. If the file you were using was originally in the game directory, it'll go there. If it can't find it, it'll go retarded. In comparison, it's probably just like a shortcut on Windows. It follows a specific directory to the file, and if the file gets moved or deleted the shortcut throws a fit. It's not like you can setup multiple file paths to the Maker when you're working on a project.

Somewhere at Enterbrain, during a design conference...

• Dev A: Hey, let's make a big bundle of shit game makers can use in their games and direct people to download, that will work across games.
• Dev B: I FUCKING LOVE PONIES
• Dev A: Instead of making it a plain archive, let's wrap it in an installer. That way, it's in a consistent, indexed location, so people only ever have to download it once, instead of having to download the same files again for every time they play a different RPGMaker game.
• Dev B: I LIKE TRUCKS AND LASERS AND TRANSFORMERS AND POKEMON CAN WE HAVE LASER PONIES THAT TRANSFORM INTO POKEMON TRUCKS WITH VEGETA HAIR
• Manager: A, great ideas! B, go code A's ideas.

If it can't find it, it'll go retarded. In comparison, it's probably just like a shortcut on Windows. It follows a specific directory to the file, and if the file gets moved or deleted the shortcut throws a fit. It's not like you can setup multiple file paths to the Maker when you're working on a project.

The RTP comes in an installer; they could easily write to the registry or user data folder and keep track of the RTP's installation directory. Also, it's trivial to have multiple fall-back paths for files.

if gamedir.contains(filename)
    load(path(gamedir,filename))
elsif rtp_registry_dir.contains(filename)
    load(path(rtp_registry_dir,filename))
elsif rtp_default_dir.contains(filename)
    load(path(rtp_default_dir,filename))
else
    shit_your_pants()

 

[AnimeWatcher1]

Somewhere at Enterbrain, during a design conference...

• Dev A: Hey, let's make a big bundle of shit game makers can use in their games and direct people to download, that will work across games.
• Dev B: I FUCKING LOVE PONIES
• Dev A: Instead of making it a plain archive, let's wrap it in an installer. That way, it's in a consistent, indexed location, so people only ever have to download it once, instead of having to download the same files again for every time they play a different RPGMaker game.
• Dev B: I LIKE TRUCKS AND LASERS AND TRANSFORMERS AND POKEMON CAN WE HAVE LASER PONIES THAT TRANSFORM INTO POKEMON TRUCKS WITH VEGETA HAIR
• Manager: A, great ideas! B, go code A's ideas.

I laughed way too hard at this! :lol Definitely think I need to sleep. I almost feel this is what actually happens with all of the stupid game decisions being made these days. I almost...want to draw that last Dev B line...in a scene that would be the greatest thing the internet has ever seen.

The RTP comes in an installer; they could easily write to the registry or user data folder and keep track of the RTP's installation directory. Also, it's trivial to have multiple fall-back paths for files.

if gamedir.contains(filename)
    load(path(gamedir,filename))
elsif rtp_registry_dir.contains(filename)
    load(path(rtp_registry_dir,filename))
elsif rtp_default_dir.contains(filename)
    load(path(rtp_default_dir,filename))
else
    shit_your_pants()

They ALSO could've kept the Side-Battle System they had. Yes, they actually had the Side-Battle System like old FF games had in RPG Maker 2k3, but removed it for RPG Maker XP and onward...for...reasons I have 0 idea. Now, you have to script in the system. They ALSO could've left the 3 layers in like XP when they transitioned into VX for top-of-the-line environment creation, but they didn't. I believe the layers are still there, but layer 3 is almost never used and layer 2 isn't fully used; and I do believe no one can script or mod the game to use them fully (otherwise it'd be one of the MUST HAVE scripts on every site). Kindof shows there are a few screws loose over there lol.

 

[LurkLurkLurk]

I almost...want to draw that last Dev B line...in a scene that would be the greatest thing the internet has ever seen.

 

[Lummie]

I love you both even tho you made me spill my coffee. D:

 

[AnimeWatcher1]

drawingofawesome.jpg

Lurk(a), you are amazing. Well done good sir, well done indeed.

 

[buttontickler05]

Nice pic, Anime. It made me lol. 😀

 

[Foshizzle]

Sorry if someone answered this but how do you open the rxdata stuff? Like map 71 and on seem to be all this type of file and I've tried two different programs to extract them and neither can.... anyone have a program that will?

 

[werter]

Does anyone know the status of the translation for the final part of the Kusuguru Project? I'b be perfectly willing to translate it myself but I'd need the master file to do so.

 

[Carnivore]

The "Venus passion" link shows "Tickle Mansion.exe" Do we still have a working link for that one?

 

[LurkLurkLurk]

Thanks for the tip. Fixed it. There was a link to the correct download URL in candycane's post.

 

[Tickleing_King]

I downloaded all the .rxdata files, and put them into the data folder, some were larger and some were smaller than the original .rxdata files that were there. I loaded the game, but I am still getting Italian subtitles. Did I do something wrong? How can I find out which map these are with? I saw one is for the Underworld, and I had a save there, but everything is still in Italian.

Sorry for being such a pain! Thank you for your patience!