Should Prostitution be Legalized?

[BigJim]

Re: if i may?

fire arms are now immoral? then i guess you believe that a hunk of metal has a soul, and the ability to think, and impose their will on people? you were more accurate in the idea of banning autos, they cause more death and destruction each year than the # of u.s. troops that died in viet nam! and how about alchohol?! i'm far from a tea totler, but booz is responsible for my problems in one week, or less, than all the guns in a year(or more)!

but this thread is suposed to be about prostitutes. god bless them.
steve

No Steve, firearms aren't immoral. I was using the ridiculousness of that case to point out that the "prostitution should be illegal because it's immoral" campaign, is fundementally flawed. I was just using firearms as a case in point to demonstrate something. Firearms like cars, prostitutes and drugs can be used for immoral reasons as well as moral ones. Only one of them is illegal.
Please mate, read it two or three times before you leap off the deep end. Is it any wonder you get involved in so many scraps?

 

[BigJim]

I agree wholeheartedly, but the definiton of faithfulness is different for every couple. Really. For some it means only having sex with each other, while for others it only refers to loving and caring for each other forever. If for some reason a spouse can't fulfill their partner's sexual needs-be it vanilla sex or tickling or whatever-an outside alternative may be just what the marriage doctor ordered; TRUST me. Sometimes the very best way to love and respect your partner is to stop pressuring them be someone their not, and love them for who they are.

This one kinda throws me. I'm a very open-minded person when it comes to sex, and I don't see this situation as a betrayal. If you're hungry and your spouse refuses to cook, is it wrong to go to Burger King? I know, bad analogy Bella...but that's how I see it. If you won't give your partner what they need, how can you get mad if they satisfy their need in another way? They're happy, and you didn't have to do what you didn't want to. As a married person with many married friends, lemmee tell ya it's WAY worse to badger your partner constantly for something they don't want to do, or go without and become so evil and resentful that you're unfit to live with-which is what REALLY leads to nasty fights and divorce.

I agree on the disease part, but that's another reason I'm for legalization and order in that business.

Bella

Bella I think you're one of the most open-minded and emotionally developed people I've ever known. Both quoted paragraphs above resonate very strongly with my personal beliefs.

I don't believe in pointless promiscuousness that debases sex to a mere physical act; but I don't believe in 100% monogamy, when your instincts are that you need sexual interaction with more than one person either.

 

[omega]

the definiton of faithfulness is different for every couple. Really. For some it means only having sex with each other, while for others it only refers to loving and caring for each other forever. If for some reason a spouse can't fulfill their partner's sexual needs-be it vanilla sex or tickling or whatever-an outside alternative may be just what the marriage doctor ordered; TRUST me. Sometimes the very best way to love and respect your partner is to stop pressuring them be someone their not, and love them for who they are.

As a pastor who has counselled many couples with marriages that are a shipwreck, TRUST me, going with an outside alternative is a fast track to divorce court.

For all of you men who think prostitution can be a legitimate answer to fulfilling a guys sexual appetite, just how many women do you know would be willing to let their husband get his sexual fulfillment from a prostitute? And let's put the shoe on the other foot. How many of you husbands would have no problem with your wife going to a male (or female) prostitute?

Let's face it: people get jealous. Even the most up-to-date, hip, open-minded people get jealous when a lovers affections are given to someone else. Perhaps those jealous feelings are a sign that it is human nature to desire fidelity in marriage and other relationships.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

Re: Re: if i may?

No Steve, firearms aren't immoral. I was using the ridiculousness of that case to point out that the "prostitution should be illegal because it's immoral" campaign, is fundementally flawed. I was just using firearms as a case in point to demonstrate something. Firearms like cars, prostitutes and drugs can be used for immoral reasons as well as moral ones. Only one of them is illegal.
Please mate, read it two or three times before you leap off the deep end. Is it any wonder you get involved in so many scraps?

hey jim! 😛

steve

 

[Deleted member 2452]

As a pastor who has counselled many couples with marriages that are a shipwreck, TRUST me, going with an outside alternative is a fast track to divorce court.

For all of you men who think prostitution can be a legitimate answer to fulfilling a guys sexual appetite, just how many women do you know would be willing to let their husband get his sexual fulfillment from a prostitute? And let's put the shoe on the other foot. How many of you husbands would have no problem with your wife going to a male (or female) prostitute?

Let's face it: people get jealous. Even the most up-to-date, hip, open-minded people get jealous when a lovers affections are given to someone else. Perhaps those jealous feelings are a sign that it is human nature to desire fidelity in marriage and other relationships.

hello padre. it is interesting to me that it is always assumed that it is the husbands who are the cheaters. i know 2 other couples where the wife was the falanderer, and in my own marriage, my wife "cheated on me 3 times that i know about! i have never, and i mean never had an affair! i have been true blue to my marriage! and i am sorry i didn't see a prostitute! all the times i went w/o sex in my life/marriage for weeks, and months at a time, it sure would have decreased the tention around my house i can tell you.
as far as disease goes, what kind of "pros" are you folks seeing?
i'd recomend going to a call girl/escort. it costs more than a "street walker, but they are better looking, and take better precautions! i knew a call girl ,who got checked out once a week, at the clinic i worked at. i only wish i would have taken her up on her many offers!
it is amasing to me that some of you are offended at my views?!?!
i speak from experience, and personal knowledge. if you don't like it, then hold a womans meeting and tell your fellow ladies to keep the home fires burning, and their men will stay home!
steve

 

[Haltickling]

For once, I have to agree with areenactor. A man or woman in a well-functioning marriage has no need for cheating or prostitutes. That doesn't imply that the wife has to spread her legs whenever her husband wants sex, but if she refuses herself for several months or years (without any medical reason for it, of course), she has no right to get upset when her hubby grazes elsewhere.

In almost all cases of cheating, the marriage was badly damaged before the cheating happens. People tend to become lazy, neglect their appearance, don't listen to each other anymore, and so on. The fault is rarely on one spouse alone, most times both are responsible for the deterioration of their relationship.

But all that has nothing to do with the state legalizing or punishing prostitution. Omega, you keep avoiding the arguments you can't contradict; instead you continue to pull out new ones from your sleeve. According to your arguments, visiting a prostitute should be forbidden for married men only, because it damages their marriages. You haven't brought up a single argument to forbid prostitution as a whole. All you want to do is to punish prostitute-visiting husbands, because of your religiously based concept of morals. And that is no reason for criminalizing prostitution.

 

[BellaRisa]

TRUST me, going with an outside alternative is a fast track to divorce court.

It can be, but usually it's a just one of many symptoms, not the cause. I've seen many marriages that were saved from wrecking by opening to such possibilities. Sexuality is an ever-evolving part of humans; intelligent couples who truly need each other don't divorce over alternatives to complete monagamy, in my experience. They may fight and scream before working things out, but if they're the kind of best friends AND lovers they need to be to sustain a happy marriage they'll muck through to the brighter side. Let me tell you as a wife who's in it for the long haul: you don't leave a spouse who's there for you, makes you feel amazing and beautiful, is a wonderful parent, and makes you laugh like no one else because they have needs that someone else is more suitable to fulfill. If you do, you're a fool. And if you're not all those things for one another, then there are many reasons for counseling, least of all sex.

just how many women do you know would be willing to let their husband get his sexual fulfillment from a prostitute? And let's put the shoe on the other foot. How many of you husbands would have no problem with your wife going to a male (or female) prostitute?

I had to think about your question for quite awhile, Omega, since to be honest I leave my husband far too sated for him to even consider using such services 😎 . Even if there were some activity I found icky, I have girlfriends who would, um...help out, shall we say. But if for some reason I couldn't, and knew no one who could, I'd say go for it and be safe, and bring me something chocolate on your way home. I asked him how he'd feel about it, and his only question was why I'd spend that kinda money when I have so many guy friends that would be happy to help out? My answers are not hypothetical, my marriage is poly-fidelitous and I already know that I have no jealousy issues.

You'd be surpised at how much easier such issues are to discuss and negotiate when you take the big bad taboo off of sex.

Let's face it: people get jealous. Even the most up-to-date, hip, open-minded people get jealous when a lovers affections are given to someone else. Perhaps those jealous feelings are a sign that it is human nature to desire fidelity in marriage and other relationships.

With all due respect: like other mammals, humans are as monagamous as I am Asian-and since my last name is Brady draw your own conclusions 🙂. Even the few mammals we thought were monogamous have been discovered not to be. I think two-only couples are beautiful if that's what both partners want, but I do not believe it's natural for all of us. Anyone who says different is probably selling something-usually a romance novel or a Bible. (with the parts about all of the wives and concubines tastefully removed of course).

Non-monogamy has little to do with being up to date or hip, it goes back to the Good Book and way beyond. I'm not going into it here because it would take too long, but I've researched the history of monogamy and most of it's roots are about the OTHER part of human nature- financial greed, back when women were thought of as property.

But you're right, jealousy does indeed exist. And monagamy *doesn't* cure it. Many monogamous relationships are poisoned by imagined infidelities because one or both partners are very insecure. And *that's* what jealousy is about: insecurity. Most of us are taught that people are like pies, and if your partner gives any of his pie to another your slice must get smaller. So many of us are terrified of not having all that 'should' be ours and ours alone, that we stop caring about what that type of possession can mean-the sadness of those around us. In my observation there is a HUGE deficit of self-confidence going around, leading to such possesiveness and fright that our partners will leave if they even look at another (better?) person. Get truly in touch with your partner, re-learn how much they care for you and what you mean to them, and spend some time learning how amazing YOU are as a person with or without them. The jealousy monster can dissolve very quickly when we believe in our love and ourselves.

Bella

 

[BellaRisa]

A man or woman in a well-functioning marriage has no need for cheating or prostitutes

Hi Hal,

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. One of the partners may have a sexual need that their spouse cannot or will not fulfill-bondage or pony play for instance. For many people their alternative proclivities are just as important as intercourse if not moreso, so they may see someone outside the marriage to take care of that need. The marriage can still be very happy and well-functioning.

In almost all cases of cheating, the marriage was badly damaged before the cheating happens. People tend to become lazy, neglect their appearance, don't listen to each other anymore, and so on.

Actually, the more I read and learn about this subject the more I find out that this isn't really the case. Many, many males (and females) just get closer to someone at work or in the neighborhood or over the 'net, and end up 'cheating' because it's different and exciting and a change of pace. I'm NOT condoning that, just saying that's very often what happens. A partner can be just as wonderful, well groomed and sexually charged as they ever were, and their partner will still 'get some strange' as they say, just because the opportunity presented itself. Personally I think it has far more to do with the non-monogamous human condition than problems within the marriage, but that's just me 😎.

Bella

 

[Deleted member 2452]

BRAVO bella!

very well said. i am most impressed (like that's going to make your day, lol).
steve

 

[BigJim]

As a pastor who has counselled many couples with marriages that are a shipwreck, TRUST me, going with an outside alternative is a fast track to divorce court.

For all of you men who think prostitution can be a legitimate answer to fulfilling a guys sexual appetite, just how many women do you know would be willing to let their husband get his sexual fulfillment from a prostitute? And let's put the shoe on the other foot. How many of you husbands would have no problem with your wife going to a male (or female) prostitute?

Let's face it: people get jealous. Even the most up-to-date, hip, open-minded people get jealous when a lovers affections are given to someone else. Perhaps those jealous feelings are a sign that it is human nature to desire fidelity in marriage and other relationships.

Apologies to the mods, because I HAD to quote all of that post.

I think there's some very pertinent points made there.
As I said earlier in this thread, pointless promiscuity is a bad thing, because it reduces sex to a meaningless biological funtion like sleeping or shitting.
But becoming bored and frustrated with each other because one or both partners are not fulfilling a need (as opposed to a want) of the other is no good either.
That is why I believe that people in a relationship should not feel guilty about occasionally seeking something (whatever it is) outside of their relationship. The feelings of guilt and betrayal that stem from such a need, are totally un-productive and engendered by the erroneous belief that it's immoral to have more than one person be THAT close to you in your life; or at least, at any one time.

If I was in a relationship with a girl who felt the need to seek something outside, I'd like to think that I'd support her. I'm sure I would feel all the base emotions you mentioned padre, but that's part of what being a higher life-form is all about; conquering the base. I would do my best to learn what it was she felt I wasn't giving her and not begrudge her if I could'nt. That may sound sound very strange and alien to you padre, but just think how much happier people would be if they were freed from the pointless constraints of guilt and fear that keeps their vibrational state so low. The world would be transformed overnight. And that isn't even an un-Christian sentiment to express. I know my Bible pretty well and I'm sure there is a passage somewhere where somenone asks a holy figure who would be his wife in heaven if he'd had 7 on earth and they'd all pre-deceased him. The reply was along the lines of "When you get to heaven you will be as the Lord, and will will have no wives as you think of them on Earth."
Now I believe that "heaven" is a conception that is perfectly possible to create here on earth, any time we want. Being in a state of life that is totally free from all the dark side emotions is my idea of it. Guilt, fear, agression, anger, hatred etc. When mankind forgets them all, then the world will transform.

They only exist at all because we've allowed ourselves to be infected with them and the biggest instrument of that, it has to be said, is religion. If people took responsibility for their own actions instead of holding "God" accoutable and also freed themselves from pointless negativity, our litle corner of the universe would be much nicer to live in.

 

[BigJim]

Before I forget, kudos to Bella, Hal and Steve for their views. They fly against everything traditional people stand for and admire...and might just make the world a happier place some day.🙂

 

[BigJim]

Re: Re: Re: if i may?

hey jim! 😛

steve

*smacks Steve in the face with a wet kipper and scarpers*

 

[omega]

But all that has nothing to do with the state legalizing or punishing prostitution. Omega, you keep avoiding the arguments you can't contradict; instead you continue to pull out new ones from your sleeve. According to your arguments, visiting a prostitute should be forbidden for married men only, because it damages their marriages. You haven't brought up a single argument to forbid prostitution as a whole. All you want to do is to punish prostitute-visiting husbands, because of your religiously based concept of morals. And that is no reason for criminalizing prostitution.

Ah, you missed my post where I changed my mind and said that prostitution should be legal. Yes, I really do think we should make prostitution legal and then let the government legislate, bureaucrat, and red-tape the snot out of it. Every prostitute should have to apply for and pay for a business permit. We should allow the IRS to make the prostitute business taxes so complicated that every prostitute has to hire a full time CPA. Finally the liability issues will get to the point that every prostitute needs to hire a full time lawyer.

And we know very well that this would happen to legal prostitution because it is true for every other business enterprise.

 

[narin]

moderation...

Selling sex? So long as no one is harmed in the process, and the person rendering the services is doing so of her own free will, and is adequately and fully paid for what she does... gods who cares? Do as you will, so long as you harm none...


- Narin

 

[BellaRisa]

Yes, I really do think we should make prostitution legal and then let the government legislate, bureaucrat, and red-tape the snot out of it...And we know very well that this would happen to legal prostitution because it is true for every other business enterprise.

Omega, I'm a private childcare provider. I have to jump through all of the 'red tape' hoops you've listed above-ALL of them, sometimes twice-and it's not an issue, I'm happy to do so. It keeps me licensed, current and legal, and keeps the number of inferior and potentially dangerous people far lower than it would otherwise be for my field. My license brings me a higher client base which allows me to further my skills and make my services even better and safer. Works just fine for all concerned, and I'm sure it would do so in several different fields 🙂 .

Bella

 

[BigJim]

Omega, I'm a private childcare provider. I have to jump through all of the 'red tape' hoops you've listed above-ALL of them, sometimes twice-and it's not an issue, I'm happy to do so. It keeps me licensed, current and legal, and keeps the number of inferior and potentially dangerous people far lower than it would otherwise be for my field. My license brings me a higher client base which allows me to further my skills and make my services even better and safer. Works just fine for all concerned, and I'm sure it would do so in several different fields 🙂 .

Bella

I would assume that the Padre's reasons for agreeing to it's legalisation, are because he thinks the red tape would choke the business, rather than let it flourish.

 

[BellaRisa]

I would assume that the Padre's reasons for agreeing to it's legalisation, are because he thinks the red tape would choke the business, rather than let it flourish.

I'm sure that's his logic, Jim. My point is that rather than choking, all the red tape and extra effort can actually help a field of business, by weeding out the less than dedicated and keeping those who remain on a higher level of service 🙂.

Bella

 

[omega]

Be careful what you assume

I would assume that the Padre's reasons for agreeing to it's legalisation, are because he thinks the red tape would choke the business, rather than let it flourish.

I know very well that prostitution could never be choked out of existence. I am actually commenting on the argument for legalizing prostitution that says that the government should stay out of the goings on between two people. Legalization with the resulting red tape would actually put the government more in control of what two consenting adults are doing. Evenually it would come down to this question: How many Johns are going to want the government to know that they are paying for prostitution services? And don't tell me that the government wouldn't need to know that information. Because they have to control and regulate and try to prevent the spread of disease somehow.

 

[BellaRisa]

And don't tell me that the government wouldn't need to know that information. Because they have to control and regulate and try to prevent the spread of disease somehow.

The government can oversee such activity while still allowing a reasonable degree of anonymity; free clinics, for instance, allow for such. And cash-based transactions would be far more difficult to trace.

Bella

 

[BigJim]

Re: Be careful what you assume

I know very well that prostitution could never be choked out of existence. I am actually commenting on the argument for legalizing prostitution that says that the government should stay out of the goings on between two people. Legalization with the resulting red tape would actually put the government more in control of what two consenting adults are doing. Evenually it would come down to this question: How many Johns are going to want the government to know that they are paying for prostitution services? And don't tell me that the government wouldn't need to know that information. Because they have to control and regulate and try to prevent the spread of disease somehow.

Sorry for the misunderstanding padre. 🙂

There's a stark difference between the government being there for it's pound of flesh and being there to criminalise a sad, fat, ugly, bespectacled old tosser who's only hope of a self-esteem boost is to use an escort.
As for "How many Johns are going to want the government to know that they are paying for prostitution services?" well it's very simple. How many Johns would give a flying f*** at a rolling doughnut what the government knew about it, providing they were able to do it without fear of prosecution.
Why would they need to control and regulate that much? They might WANT to, but I can't see them needing to. The health checks in Germany don't require a client database, like you need a service history for a car. It's done with as much taste and anonymity as possible.