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the "baseball only" thread

Even though the Cardinals lost in the NLCS, it was a very enjoyable season. As it turned out I attended the final game at Busch Stadium. I had alot of good times there. Opened in 1966, Busch was the last of the "cookie cutter" style ballparks that were so popular in that era. Cranes were already stationed today preparing for the demolition. Jim Edmonds drove his pickup truck around the outfield doing doughnuts. I only wish he would have shown such energy in the playoffs.
 
I'm not a Cards fan but when the fans at Busch clapped after the game was over, even though their team lost, that was a great moment. A classy, if not happy, sendoff to a great stadium (and a great team). It will be missed. 🙁
 
I agree, the Cardinal fans applauding the Astros' first NL pennant ever was a classy thing to do. 😀
 
amk714 said:
I'm not a Cards fan but when the fans at Busch clapped after the game was over, even though their team lost, that was a great moment. A classy, if not happy, sendoff to a great stadium (and a great team). It will be missed. 🙁
I expect nothing less from Cardinal fans. They are great fans in a great city that played in a great park. I had the chance to go to Busch twice. Once when there was artifical turf( 1983 ) and it get to 170 degrees on the turf and since it was renovated( 2004 ). The park had a more homey kind of feel to it. To bad they will knock that park down. I hope the new park is better than Busch is right now or it was a BIG waste of time and money.
 
ticklingfeet4fu said:
Ask the Pirate fans if they care if the Royals come to town. They don't. Now ask the Pirate fans if they care if the Mets come to town and the answer is yes. It is a matter of filling up the park. The Mets, Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers and Giants do it better than most teams. So it would behoove MLB to to keep the American League playing the American League and build up rivalries there and the National League playing the National League until the World Series. Think about it. If the Mets played the Cubs 12 times as opposed to 6 times it would make for a more interesting race in the wildcard. Since we know that if you play a foe ahead of you it is essence worth 2 games doesn't that make it more worth the while? Believe me, I understand what you are saying. But how are you keeping a fan interested if it is DevilRays against the Rockies? It means nothing to them. Ask the Rockies fans if they would rather go see the Dodgers and Rockies or the DevilRays and Rockies. Fans in the NL or the AL only go see the rivalry matchups like the White Sox/Cubs or Mets/Yankees. Though I do know that the Angels /Dodgers do well as does the Reds/Indians and the A's/Giants but not many more really have the juice. I know that the Mets/Cubs was a huge rivalry as was Mets/Cardinals but that is no more and that is sad and I blame that on interleague play.


and just how do you really know what people want to see?? Did you go to all 30 stadiums and take a pulse of what they want?? Did you do any surveys?? All I am saying is that they can try it, it doesn't necessarily have to work, but to try it to take a pulse, and then fix it from within. Hey, they are still trying to recover the fans lost from 1994, so why not?? Besides, all this is a plan to make pennant races exciting, and to fix the schedule in terms of #games played against one other, to ultimately make divisional races more meaningful. besides, tf4f, if you win most of your divsion games anyway, interleague play would then be icing on the cake. The teams should be more focused when playing in their division anyway, so who cares who plays who
 
natural tickler said:
and just how do you really know what people want to see?? Did you go to all 30 stadiums and take a pulse of what they want?? Did you do any surveys?? All I am saying is that they can try it, it doesn't necessarily have to work, but to try it to take a pulse, and then fix it from within. Hey, they are still trying to recover the fans lost from 1994, so why not?? Besides, all this is a plan to make pennant races exciting, and to fix the schedule in terms of #games played against one other, to ultimately make divisional races more meaningful. besides, tf4f, if you win most of your divsion games anyway, interleague play would then be icing on the cake. The teams should be more focused when playing in their division anyway, so who cares who plays who
We had the best record within our division. Our divisional record isn't an issue. Who in the National League has to play 6 games against the Yankees? That is not the reason why we lost mind you but it creates unfair competitve inbalance for the Mets. As it does for the Cubs. Wouldn't you hate to lose the division by a game to the Cardinals if the Cards play the Royals 6 times and win all 6 games. While you are playing the White Sox 6 times and winning 3 of 6. Explain how that is fair to the Cubs. Oh I forgot, you are a White Sox fan.
 
World Series fans in for a look at old-style baseball

World Series fans in for a look at old-style baseball

By Jorge L. Ortiz and Mike Dodd, USA TODAY
Fri Oct 21, 7:04 AM ET

The Chicago White Sox call it "smart ball." Others prefer "small ball." By any name, it has been winning ball.

The four teams that reached the League Championship Series in baseball's postseason relied on manufacturing runs with fundamentals and situational hitting, aided by strong pitching, solid fielding and a dash of power hitting.


That should make for an old-style matchup when the White Sox and Houston Astros meet in the World Series beginning Saturday at Chicago's U.S. Cellular Field. (Related item: Key stats for each team)


"It's not going to be like, two-run home run and wait for the closer," White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen said. "It's going to be baseball from the beginning all the way to the end - squeezes, hit-and-run, moving guys over."


That mix of traditional baseball with today's power game could be the formula more teams adopt in the steroid-testing era, especially given the blueprint established by the White Sox, Astros, Los Angeles Angels and St. Louis Cardinals.


It's baseball with brains, not just brawn. The overdependence on the long ball of recent years gets replaced by an emphasis on doing the little things offensively and, as always, getting good pitching.


The number of home runs in the majors decreased this season from 5,451 to 5,017, an 8% decline.


Of the four finalists, only the White Sox ranked in the top five in their league in home runs, but all were among the top five in the majors in earned run average. St. Louis (3.49) finished No. 1, followed by Houston (second, 3.51), the White Sox (fourth, 3.61) and the Angels (fifth, 3.68).


Entering 2005, the Astros and White Sox knew they had to change their offensive approaches.


Houston had come within a victory of the 2004 World Series on the strength of a power-hitting lineup that featured Carlos Beltran, Jeff Kent, Lance Berkman and Jeff Bagwell, as well as a splendid duo of starting pitchers in Roger Clemens and Roy Oswalt.


The Astros were counting on a healthy Andy Pettitte for their 2005 rotation, but the offensive attack had to be modified after Beltran signed with the New York Mets and Kent with the Los Angeles Dodgers as free agents. Houston then lost Bagwell for most of the season because of a shoulder injury.


Asked when he decided to go with a small-ball tack, Houston general manager Tim Purpura joked, "I think the negotiations with Beltran ended on Jan. 7, so around Jan. 8."


Truthfully, Purpura added, he and manager Phil Garner had talked about that option earlier, in part because it suits the personality of Garner, known in his playing days as "Scrap Iron."


"One of the things he mentioned to me in the offseason was that he really enjoyed last year because he could actually manage," Purpura said. "After so much time in the American League, he could actually hit-and-run, put guys in motion, he could bunt."


Garner's influence pays off


Houston scored the first two runs of its 4-1 win in Game 2 of this year's NLCS against St. Louis on a passed ball and a groundout. In Game 4, a 2-1 victory, the Astros scored the winning run without benefit of a hit, combining a walk, a sacrifice bunt and a sacrifice fly. In the pennant-clinching Game 6, a 5-1 victory, Houston's first run scored on a wild pitch following a bunt and its fourth on a suicide squeeze.


"It's night and day," Berkman said of the team's offense in 2004 and '05. "We have very few of the same personnel. We don't have too many established guys, but I think we've got guys that are gritty and compete well with the bat."


Purpura said he found few run-producers available when he went shopping around the trading deadline.

"I don't know what effect the new steroid policy has had. You have to wonder," he said. "Certainly, because you don't have the big boppers, the big swingers, the big RBI guys you've had available in the past, you're going to have to manufacture runs somehow."

White Sox borrow formula

Prompted by the success of the division rival Minnesota Twins, the White Sox put renewed emphasis on pitching, fielding and speed in the past year and a half.

They acquired right-handers Freddy Garcia and Jose Contreras in midseason last year. In the offseason they traded outfielder Carlos Lee and his potent bat to the Milwaukee Brewers for speedy outfielder Scott Podsednik and reliever Luis Vizcaino. Podsednik finished second in the AL with 59 stolen bases.

The White Sox also let go of Jose Valentin and Magglio Ordonez, a consistent producer whose knee injury concerned them. Instead, they signed Jermaine Dye and added Tadahito Iguchi, a Japanese second baseman with a well-rounded offensive game.

A team that for years depended on power hitters Frank Thomas, Ordonez and Lee to bring runners home had found more creative alternatives. The White Sox can still go deep - their 200 home runs ranked fourth in the AL - but they're not solely dependent on the long ball.

"That's the way baseball should have always been," Chicago outfielder Carl Everett said. "But now because of television, fans only see home runs and strikeouts. They don't see base hits, guys moving people over. They don't see a guy sacrificing himself. They don't show that on SportsCenter."

The White Sox didn't have to watch TV to get the picture. They saw in person how the Twins won the AL Central from 2002-04 despite a lack of big-name talent.

When Twins general manager Terry Ryan congratulated him on Chicago's success this season, White Sox vice president and general manager Ken Williams had this response:

"Congratulations my (foot). You backed me into a corner where we had to come out and play your style of baseball and try to beat you at your own game."

Winning with the right mix

This season's total number of home runs is the lowest in the majors since 1997, the year before baseball expanded to 30 teams with the Arizona Diamondbacks and Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

The hitter-friendly ballparks built from 1990 on - among them U.S. Cellular Field, Houston's Minute Maid Park, Baltimore's Oriole Park at Camden Yards and Philadelphia's Citizens Bank Park - clearly contributed to some teams eschewing small ball for raw power.

Some managers, though, were never sold on that philosophy. Angels skipper Mike Scioscia says he'll adjust to whatever his personnel's strengths are, but he always insists on his team playing aggressively and taking the extra base.

Scioscia's Angels won the 2002 World Series behind a lineup that had Troy Glaus and Garret Anderson, who combined for 59 homers and 234 RBI, surrounded by a number of smart situational hitters.

This year they reached the ALCS by relying more on speed. Only Vladimir Guerrero surpassed 17 homers; he had 32. Catalyst Chone Figgins, the majors' top base stealer with 62, got the offense running for a team that led all of baseball with 161 steals.

"If we had a lineup that had seven guys with the potential to hit 25 to 30 home runs, it would be a bit more sit back and slug baseballs," Scioscia said. "We don't have that ability. I think it's great. I think it's baseball. I love it."

So does Cardinals manager Tony La Russa. Although his team is better known for big boppers such as Albert Pujols and Scott Rolen, the large dimensions of soon-to-be-demolished Busch Stadium led to more situational hitting.

With Rolen limited to 56 games this season because of a shoulder injury, the Cardinals finished seventh in the NL in home runs (170) but third in scoring (805 runs), in large part to a league-leading .291 average with runners in scoring position.

Shortstop David Eckstein's presence at the top of the lineup added diversity to the offense. St. Louis had two successful suicide squeezes in the playoffs, one by pitcher Chris Carpenter, the other by Eckstein.

"You can do anything you want with him. You can hit-and-run with him, bunt," La Russa said of Eckstein. "We push the game with him quite a bit."

The White Sox's Williams is all for pushing the envelope, but he warns that baseball is not about to return to the era of the Go-Go Sox, even with Chicago back in the World Series for the first time since 1959. He said the emphasis on power in the past several years has left the minor leagues depleted of fleet-footed talent.

Yet much as Williams was pleased to see the White Sox manufacture some runs in winning seven of their eight postseason games, he was just as thrilled when Paul Konerko homered with at least one runner on base in back-to-back games as Chicago beat the Angels 4-1 in the ALCS.

"My hope is that baseball cares about defense, situational baseball and smart baseball," Williams said. "But in the AL, you'd better have a little power to back that up."
 
I'm looking forward to it. And it will be historic either way: first win ever for the Astros, or first since 1917 for the White Sox. 😀
 
ticklingfeet4fu said:
We had the best record within our division. Our divisional record isn't an issue. Who in the National League has to play 6 games against the Yankees? That is not the reason why we lost mind you but it creates unfair competitve inbalance for the Mets. As it does for the Cubs. Wouldn't you hate to lose the division by a game to the Cardinals if the Cards play the Royals 6 times and win all 6 games. While you are playing the White Sox 6 times and winning 3 of 6. Explain how that is fair to the Cubs. Oh I forgot, you are a White Sox fan.


silly little man. I keep telling ya it is for selfish reasons I am rooting for the Sox, only for our management to get off their asses and field us a good team. As of Nov. 1, my hostilities towards the South Side will be back to normal. Silly rabbit, Trix is for kids
 
My hostility to the hated jints continues, 24/7, all year long. 😛 😛
 
I am too young to remember that season, I have only read about it.
I do remember 1955, of course. 😀 😀
 
I'm not exactly sure, but the sun will be a small, cold lump of coal by then. 😛
 
Yanno, there is a song for bitter rivals like you, it goes by the title, "Why can't we be friends??"
 
ticklingfeet4fu said:
I am not a Barry Bonds fan. Let me start there. I happen to agree with your father. Bonds did not need to get on steriods. You look at his numbers prior to the 2001 season and he is a Hall of Famer. But I have to admit that it is not Bonds I have a problem with. It is Rafael Palmerio. Palmerio came into this league a singles type hitter. Got on the juice, lied and compiled his numbers then can't seem to keep from putting his foot in his mouth. Palmerio has disgraced himself and the Orioles. But to be honest MLB Commissioner Bud Selig is really to blame. He has denied ever knowing that steriods was ever in this sport until it was too late. Which is a crock. The reason steriods entered MLB was because of the strike of 1994. They needed a gimmick to get the fans back into the stadiums. So blame MLB for all this crap. Everybody turned their heads the other way when asked what happened with steriods. Bud Selig thanks for putting this great game in the crapper.

Oh, and I forgot to add...Palmeiro also got traded from the Cubs for boinking Ryne Sandberg's now ex-wife. 😱
 
If I were a general manager, then I would trade or not trade players based on their ability and my team's needs, not based on whether they committed adultery.
 
milagros317 said:
If I were a general manager, then I would trade or not trade players based on their ability and my team's needs, not based on whether they committed adultery.

Committing adultery is one thing. A guy having an affair with his teammate's wife...that could be a little bit of a distraction. 😛
 
I just want to say even if you're not a fan of either team (or baseball for that matter) this should be a great series. 😀
 
I am looking forward to watching it, even though I have no rooting interest in either team. 😀
 
My TV is on FOX right now. Look at all those fans! 😀

EDIT: Players' intros coming up. 😀
 
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