Nowadays, you don't even get a good pipe organ half the time for Mass. Some dude will strum a guitar or play a flute or something, presumably because it's more "with-it" (that crazy folk music the kids are all listening to these days). Whither the pipe organs?
-
If you would like to get your account Verified, read this thread -
Check out Tickling.com - the most innovative tickling site of the year. -
The TMF is sponsored by Clips4sale - By supporting them, you're supporting us. -
>>> If you cannot get into your account email me at [email protected] <<<
Don't forget to include your username
Tickling/Religion/Guilt & Evil...
- Thread starter qjakal
- Start date
D
Deleted member 2452
Guest
Daumantas said:
the sad thing is it's like another organ, if you don't use it, you'll lose it!😉
welcome back to our flock reverend omega.
steve
omega said:
Damn good for you Omega! Even though I don't subscribe to your particular view, spirituality should always be about individuals and small communities. When it becomes a world wide organisation there's too much politics involved. When it's personal and small, it goes worldwide in the better way. As a thoughtwave.
Omega......indeed
Hmm...it's good to aim high O, but getting ME into a church every Sunday is probably beyond even most deities! I recently began checking out the UU (Unitarians), because I would like to have some sort of organized religous activity( and answers to those pesky growing up questions) for my daughter, but I was hoping for one that would support an array of viewpoints without being mired in dogma beyond hope. Their principles are good, and the UU's seem well meaning, but they're a bit too extreme in the PC activities and although they preach humanism, I don't really see evidence of it through the organization, at least not in my neighborhood. You have any opinions or comments on these groups, I'd be interested in hearing it/them. Q
Hmm...it's good to aim high O, but getting ME into a church every Sunday is probably beyond even most deities! I recently began checking out the UU (Unitarians), because I would like to have some sort of organized religous activity( and answers to those pesky growing up questions) for my daughter, but I was hoping for one that would support an array of viewpoints without being mired in dogma beyond hope. Their principles are good, and the UU's seem well meaning, but they're a bit too extreme in the PC activities and although they preach humanism, I don't really see evidence of it through the organization, at least not in my neighborhood. You have any opinions or comments on these groups, I'd be interested in hearing it/them. Q
I find a tie to religion to be of help to kids. I was one of those kids that was raised in a home wihtout ANY. My folks held their own beliefs which differed and they felt that to "force" them onto me would just be wrong. What I can tell you is that any extreme is bad...including exclusion of religion as a founding of a child's world view. I grew up feeling like I was missing something that everyone else had that seemed VERY important. One's spirituality, whether strong or not, is one of the base characteristics that define us as people. Being an atheist tells as much, if not more about a person, than knowing he is a devout follower of a particular faith.
For kids to be left out in the cold without any religious education will make them feel lost. As a person who believes ni "a higher power," I would say thats like not teaching them about gravity or mathematics. (Just my opinion here, remember?) My personal choice is to expose my kid to MANY religions so that he may choose the one that fits best. UU was appealing to me in that it allowed free exchange and it focused on making the community better. Your soul, or lack there of, is your own business...lol I find that being a part of a group that shares views opens the door to conversation and comparison that my child would not get if I chose to focus strictly on MY values and MY morals. I want a well rounded kid...not just one that is a smaller version of me.
Mind you, some people will have other means to this same end, but I this is the reason that I feel exposure to religion is good. My experiece with UU locally is not one that is as pompous as those I've run across in other places. Perhaps it's a regional thing, Q.
Joby
For kids to be left out in the cold without any religious education will make them feel lost. As a person who believes ni "a higher power," I would say thats like not teaching them about gravity or mathematics. (Just my opinion here, remember?) My personal choice is to expose my kid to MANY religions so that he may choose the one that fits best. UU was appealing to me in that it allowed free exchange and it focused on making the community better. Your soul, or lack there of, is your own business...lol I find that being a part of a group that shares views opens the door to conversation and comparison that my child would not get if I chose to focus strictly on MY values and MY morals. I want a well rounded kid...not just one that is a smaller version of me.
Mind you, some people will have other means to this same end, but I this is the reason that I feel exposure to religion is good. My experiece with UU locally is not one that is as pompous as those I've run across in other places. Perhaps it's a regional thing, Q.
Joby
Don't know much about UU's
I've often wondered how I would be received as pastor of a UU church. I like the open discussion of ideas. In my theology I am very evangelical (whatever that means these days). But in my approach I would love to have more openness of discussion in my church. I am sometimes frustrated by the resistance of open discussion and honest questioning of beliefs among the congregation.
The latest example involves a pastor at the Methodist church just down the road. His church has a big patriotic type service during Sunday morning before Memorial Day. They begin the service with the flags being carried in and everyone saying the Pledge. The pastor did not say the pledge. Boy did that get everyone in the church and eventually the community talking about how he is not patriotic, does not like America, is a communist at heart, etc. etc. It seems that nobody was actually polite enough to ask HIM about it. His reason for not saying the pledge? As Christians we are to pledge our lives and our allegance to God and to God alone. How can we then in good Christian conscience pledge ourselves to any flag or nation?
But I tell you what, just try to get a decent conversation going on the merits or demerits of that reasoning. People don't even want to think about it because just thinking about it might turn them into communists.
Anyway, Q, keep looking, keep searching, keep asking, keep questioning and hopefully the search will streach you and help you grow.
Strel, I have changed my mind about the perfect instrument. I think the perfect instrument is my daughter's five dollar plastic recorder flute.
I am such a joker.
I've often wondered how I would be received as pastor of a UU church. I like the open discussion of ideas. In my theology I am very evangelical (whatever that means these days). But in my approach I would love to have more openness of discussion in my church. I am sometimes frustrated by the resistance of open discussion and honest questioning of beliefs among the congregation.
The latest example involves a pastor at the Methodist church just down the road. His church has a big patriotic type service during Sunday morning before Memorial Day. They begin the service with the flags being carried in and everyone saying the Pledge. The pastor did not say the pledge. Boy did that get everyone in the church and eventually the community talking about how he is not patriotic, does not like America, is a communist at heart, etc. etc. It seems that nobody was actually polite enough to ask HIM about it. His reason for not saying the pledge? As Christians we are to pledge our lives and our allegance to God and to God alone. How can we then in good Christian conscience pledge ourselves to any flag or nation?
But I tell you what, just try to get a decent conversation going on the merits or demerits of that reasoning. People don't even want to think about it because just thinking about it might turn them into communists.
Anyway, Q, keep looking, keep searching, keep asking, keep questioning and hopefully the search will streach you and help you grow.
Strel, I have changed my mind about the perfect instrument. I think the perfect instrument is my daughter's five dollar plastic recorder flute.
I am such a joker.
D
Deleted member 2452
Guest
sorry folks but kids can't decide this for them selves
adults have to help their kids make religious decisions. children do not have enough experience to make an informed reasonable decision.
i my self have 4 kids. all are interested in some religious training, or at least to learn about it. none are what i would call religious, more curious.
if we left this up to the kids, they'd go with the church that offered to bigest bag of candy!
steve
adults have to help their kids make religious decisions. children do not have enough experience to make an informed reasonable decision.
i my self have 4 kids. all are interested in some religious training, or at least to learn about it. none are what i would call religious, more curious.
if we left this up to the kids, they'd go with the church that offered to bigest bag of candy!
steve
Haltickling
2nd Level Green Feather
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2001
- Messages
- 4,353
- Points
- 0
You're right, Steve, parents should give their children some kind of religious upbringing. The faith in God is never stronger than during childhood, and kids won't understand the finer philosophical aspects of one religion or another.
But they should also be raised to respect people of other religions, and with an open mind. When they're old enough, they may choose the one that they really can believe in.
Although I'm an atheist, I helped to raise my two daughters in the catholic faith (my wife was a catholic). When they became older (around 12/15), I used to watch TV documentaries on other religions together with them, and they asked a whole lot of questions. I happen to know a bit about other cultures and religions, and I shared my knowledge with them.
Both are still quite active catholics, but they are open-minded enough to respect other faiths as well. My younger daughter had a girl-classmate who was Turkish (Islamic) when she was 9, and we encouraged her when she wanted to stay over night with the Turkish familiy. Afterwards, she had a completely different view on Islam and complained: "Why don't we all learn this at school?" And she had a thousand new questions for me... 🙂
But they should also be raised to respect people of other religions, and with an open mind. When they're old enough, they may choose the one that they really can believe in.
Although I'm an atheist, I helped to raise my two daughters in the catholic faith (my wife was a catholic). When they became older (around 12/15), I used to watch TV documentaries on other religions together with them, and they asked a whole lot of questions. I happen to know a bit about other cultures and religions, and I shared my knowledge with them.
Both are still quite active catholics, but they are open-minded enough to respect other faiths as well. My younger daughter had a girl-classmate who was Turkish (Islamic) when she was 9, and we encouraged her when she wanted to stay over night with the Turkish familiy. Afterwards, she had a completely different view on Islam and complained: "Why don't we all learn this at school?" And she had a thousand new questions for me... 🙂
Good topic...
There's certainly been some interesting views shared on this. Jo, you describe the situation I was envisioning placing my daughter into perfectly, and it's troublesome. My wife said that setting her apart by not giving her an answer to the question "what religion are you" was wrong, but until you posted I wasn't convinced. Now I begin to see it as another "extreme", and it begins to strike me as unacceptable also. I had halfheartedly begun searching for an organization, coming upon the Unitarians in the process, but I see now that I'll need to do quite a bit more research. I agree with the contention that a child needs SOME sort of moral guidance until they reach early teens, at which time all hell and hormones break loose, and they become a force of nature themselves...lol. If anyone knows of another organization that espouses similar freedom of thought as the Unitarians, but without quite so much PCism, I'd sure take a peek at 'em! Q
There's certainly been some interesting views shared on this. Jo, you describe the situation I was envisioning placing my daughter into perfectly, and it's troublesome. My wife said that setting her apart by not giving her an answer to the question "what religion are you" was wrong, but until you posted I wasn't convinced. Now I begin to see it as another "extreme", and it begins to strike me as unacceptable also. I had halfheartedly begun searching for an organization, coming upon the Unitarians in the process, but I see now that I'll need to do quite a bit more research. I agree with the contention that a child needs SOME sort of moral guidance until they reach early teens, at which time all hell and hormones break loose, and they become a force of nature themselves...lol. If anyone knows of another organization that espouses similar freedom of thought as the Unitarians, but without quite so much PCism, I'd sure take a peek at 'em! Q
Let's just start one
Q,
To help you with your search for a church/religion in which to park. I may be moving within the next year. I have no idea where to. Perhaps we could get together and start an orginization that encourages open discussion without PC gone amok.
Q,
To help you with your search for a church/religion in which to park. I may be moving within the next year. I have no idea where to. Perhaps we could get together and start an orginization that encourages open discussion without PC gone amok.
Q,
When you find it, let me know. OK?
Omega is right on! Start something. As an adult, I've felt a pull in a particular direction, but I've too many doubts to align with it completely, so here I am in limbo again. What I've done instead is developed a way to engage my friends (of varying faiths) in conversations that tell me the whys behind their belief systems. THAT has been a good start for us. The answers amaze! I've finally learned to not be surprised how differently answers come from singles v/s married and parents v/s non-parents...etc.
There is always the handy "fall back" scenario which my broter and his wife chose with their kids. She is a devout Catholic and he is you typical Taoist/agnostic/Jewish/Hindu/Methodist. hehe 😉 In other words, he came from the same house as me. 😉 Since SHE was very specific about her faith and he wasn't, he compromised. The children would attend the Catholic church to have a foundation as long as when they got older they were alowed to question it without fear of upsetting their mom. The other stipulation....no matter what a church leader teaches you, people are to be respected as you just can't ever REALLY know the truth till ya meet your maker. They are now teens and the questioning has begun. Again, it's not perfect, but it gave them a foundation to compare to other things. Plus their mom has given them something she loves.
Ahh, the joys of being a responsible adult. 😉 In the meantime, in our house, we pray to "god" and we celebrate life and variety.
Still looking,
Joby
When you find it, let me know. OK?
Omega is right on! Start something. As an adult, I've felt a pull in a particular direction, but I've too many doubts to align with it completely, so here I am in limbo again. What I've done instead is developed a way to engage my friends (of varying faiths) in conversations that tell me the whys behind their belief systems. THAT has been a good start for us. The answers amaze! I've finally learned to not be surprised how differently answers come from singles v/s married and parents v/s non-parents...etc.
There is always the handy "fall back" scenario which my broter and his wife chose with their kids. She is a devout Catholic and he is you typical Taoist/agnostic/Jewish/Hindu/Methodist. hehe 😉 In other words, he came from the same house as me. 😉 Since SHE was very specific about her faith and he wasn't, he compromised. The children would attend the Catholic church to have a foundation as long as when they got older they were alowed to question it without fear of upsetting their mom. The other stipulation....no matter what a church leader teaches you, people are to be respected as you just can't ever REALLY know the truth till ya meet your maker. They are now teens and the questioning has begun. Again, it's not perfect, but it gave them a foundation to compare to other things. Plus their mom has given them something she loves.
Ahh, the joys of being a responsible adult. 😉 In the meantime, in our house, we pray to "god" and we celebrate life and variety.
Still looking,
Joby
New Religion
Alrighty then, I'll get my internet Ordination Certificate and begin developing "Jobyism" later this week, ok? Omega, hopefully you're heading north and will land in my neck of the woods. I'll show you around the Island...lots of lighthouses and wineries and ocean and all that stuff laying all over the place here! Q
Alrighty then, I'll get my internet Ordination Certificate and begin developing "Jobyism" later this week, ok? Omega, hopefully you're heading north and will land in my neck of the woods. I'll show you around the Island...lots of lighthouses and wineries and ocean and all that stuff laying all over the place here! Q
Oh dear, Q...do you realize what a horrible idea Jobyism is? heheh...Most of the worship service would revolve around shoes and our deity would be referred to as Y'all. I doubt we'll get much interst in that. 😛 HOWEVER...confession and community service would take on a whole new meaning! LOL
Shall we direct this conversation back to tickling for a bit? I know I've felt in touch with my gigher power after being tickled for a couple hours. 😀 Wonder if that concept of being part of god can apply here?
Joby
Shall we direct this conversation back to tickling for a bit? I know I've felt in touch with my gigher power after being tickled for a couple hours. 😀 Wonder if that concept of being part of god can apply here?
Joby
Strelnikov
4th Level Red Feather
- Joined
- May 7, 2001
- Messages
- 1,812
- Points
- 0
Iggy pop...
Nope - wrong answer. Go back to page 21 and read JoBelle's post. She says it better than I could.
Strelnikov
Nope - wrong answer. Go back to page 21 and read JoBelle's post. She says it better than I could.
Strelnikov
Iggy pop said:
Hmmm...in theory that might be ok, but in reality, how do you approach someone with little to no education on a topic and then offer them something as profound as a diety? Given the fact that most adults struggle with religion and how it impacts their lives, I would think it a disservice to deny a child exposure to something that could actually help them now AND later.
Even if young kids don't dig everything about the imposing word "RELIGION," the smallest child can grasp the idea that when *for example* a grandparents dies, there is something bigger out there than the loss itself. Fluffy the cat gets stuck in the ground when she got hit by a car....but WHY? How come I'm sick asks the kid with a life threatening disease? Those are situations where a child can turn to someone bigger and more powerful than even mom and dad and find some comfort in the fact that they are not SUPPOSED to understand everything. Overly simple? Maybe. An important part of human growth? *I* say yes.
Joby
And thanks Strel...you're always so polite and sweet to me! I think I may be developing a crush on ya. 😉
One monster reply, instead of 70 small ones
I agree wit' Bella concerning the singling out of any one form of music as "bad". There's Rap music I respect more than most Country, and I actually like some Country. Not much, mind ya, but that's MY preference. Few in any generation enjoy the music of the generation preceding and/or following them. Those that do are usually musicians or deejays.
Hell, I agree wit' Bella concernin' criminal punishment of dope smokers. Outlawin' an herb for personal use, while ENCOURAGING the use and sales of tobacco and alcohol, is plain ridiculous. All three do damage, affect perceptions, etc. That there's laws against such is ridiculous. The funny part? I don't even LIKE marijuana. Puts me to sleep.
Hey, wait, what the hell happened to "Tickling, Religion, Guilt & Evil"? Screw it. I'm rollin' wit this thread. It's always too interesting...
The 70s? Sure, I've some positive memories. I was just into my teens at the end. OTOH, I could stand to have the whole big hair, psychedelia, me-generation, Brady Bunch, cheesie love-in, hippie popular, digital watch-wearin' stoner-fest go on a permanent sabbatical. I'd rather see the ridiculousness of the 80s return, and I don't particularly want that back, either.
Did I laugh my ass off seein' A Flock of Seagulls play a "reunion tour" wit' the singer wearin' a baseball cap? Damned straight. Does it kill me that Deadheads are now grandparents, and have argued stuff that would have made 'em sick as hippie kids? Yep. The whole deal is tiresome. Happens, though. Nihilism from the 80s and 90s died off, pun intended, and it's about damned time.
Ooh, I'm gettin' my crank on, now. Full steam crankyness! Woohoo!
How about one freakin' generation of individualists, or at least more than one popular cultural focus, such that it doesn't become a nation-wide marketing scheme? I'd delight in having just one generation of people NOT adopt a majority costume wit' more than 20 percent of the populace. 80s came closest, thus far, but Goth kids and punks were too close for many, and many mistook the Deadheads for hippies, despite hippism havin' faded. No one dug that Glam rock lived on, 'cept the Glam kiddies, and the Thrash kids HATED bein' compared to the later Grunge thing from Seattle. At least briefly, there were more factions. Mind you, they weren't the best crop of 'em, but at least there was a brief spate of diversity.
Lately, everyone wants to be what I so greatly tried to avoid the appearance of - gang members. If only in appearance, they wanna be "bad", so long as they don't risk their game-boys and $100 Nikes. Witness dvnc slide ever more towards Strel and Q, 'cause o' those meddlin' kids...
In all seriousness, though, it WOULD be nice to have just a WEE bit more ingenuity in style from gen to gen.
Where railroad tracks are concerned, there's ALWAYS gonna be somethin' afoot. From criminals and low-born ("bad side of the tracks") to bums, that's the bottoming out for most of the Americas, north and south. It's STILL more comfortable than a plane, even underneath. I agree wit' Daumantas there. 😉 I can proudly say I actually hopped 'em, way back when. Was mostly amusement, and I damned near broke a leg gettin' off the damned thing, but it WAS safer than my skateboard. That deck nearly got me killed SO many times...
I even took one, wit' a paid fare, to San Diego once, from San Jose. Was quite thrilled by it. I *was* 9, though.
Omega! Welcome back, Pastor. Good t'see ya 'round. You're the closest this thread's come to it's original topic in many posts, save for the vagarities of good and evil in the minds of the moderators! Q may deny goin' to church, but I'm bettin' that, if you got a gathering goin' on in one every Sunday, play and all, he'd go again. I'm always glad that Christ fellow reminded all and sundry that the world's the worship place of the almighty. Nearly every popular monotheistic faith can dig that notion, as can several of the lesser known!
Ooh! Wait, amk714 brought the thread back around to the main topical focus? Props for that, sir.
Philosophy CAN be taught without religion, in my observation. I learned it thusly. It's just WAY harder for a child to grasp. You've not tried this, I reckon, or you'd know this already. Kids that HAVE a belief in a "higher power" are STILL tough to teach at times where philosophy contests wit' fun. Those wit' nothin' more than mom and dad to fear are a tougher sell. Empirical efforts have shown me that one, brother.
Mom wasn't of a Christian faith (still isn't, either) but she made a point of having me read about and understand what she called the "big religions" and the concepts of higher powers. My mom's Grandfather was Huron, and that's the teachings she learned as a child and holds to, now. She had me chose my faith based on my learning (which is to say that I disagree with you, Steve, and I *am* proof a kid can learn and decide). I learned least about Moslem faith, 'cause I didn't dig what child's eyes saw as hostile and agressive. I learned the basics of Christianity, and like that Christ guy's notions of love and unity. I still believe it's all about the love, and that Christ fellow did help my faith in such a notion. I learned about the Judaic faith mostly from kind and informative elder folk in my 'hood as a kid. Neat songs, too. Got invited to holidays wit' 'em, and still go when I've the ability. Learned about the basics of the Hindu faith. Was even lucky enough, in my high school years, to be given a copy of their book (never could remember the spelling - something like Bagavad Gita. Please forgive the error). That one was complicated, and I got more from Gamelan musics in college (Gamelan, from Java, is used to tell the stories to kids, and is also used in dances for rich folk). I wasn't voting age yet when I'd had the basics down, though. I was a curious kid. Read about the Greeks and Norse, and a bit about the Celtic, though there was a curious absence of Wiccan tracts that surprises me now, given how known that faith is, and how prevalent the info is now. Mind ya, Steve, no religion offered me a big bag of candy. I'd've ratted 'em out to mom, too. 😉
It's still all about the love, for me. I don't care what a body cares to call a higher power, or if one believes such is possible. I don't care what ants think about me, either. I figure that, so far above me on the scale of evolution, such a power probably doesn't dwell long on my fool notions, so long as I ain't messin' up too badly. Respecting the faiths of others is part of respecting the people, which to me is important. I agree wit' Hal, there. I do also agree wit' Jo that a parent must TEACH his kid about such. They don't just spontaneously learn it, after all. My kid would worship Pokemon or the like. I'd've have worshiped comic books. 😉 Teachin' kids, now, about the fact that Muslims are PEOPLE and that their faith is similar, and that terrorism ISN'T a religion, but a violent politic, is important.
There's so much common thread with the faiths that it's not hard to avoid offending others, and I manage well wit' friends of many faiths and cultures.
Man this is a monster of a post. Hadda catch back up to y'all. I hope no one is crazy enough to quote the whole thing!
Q, Strel, can ya BELIEVE that this monster walks again? The sheer intelligence of the posters is delightful. Jo, watch out for Strel. He'll charm the socks off ya. 😉
*phew*
I agree wit' Bella concerning the singling out of any one form of music as "bad". There's Rap music I respect more than most Country, and I actually like some Country. Not much, mind ya, but that's MY preference. Few in any generation enjoy the music of the generation preceding and/or following them. Those that do are usually musicians or deejays.
Hell, I agree wit' Bella concernin' criminal punishment of dope smokers. Outlawin' an herb for personal use, while ENCOURAGING the use and sales of tobacco and alcohol, is plain ridiculous. All three do damage, affect perceptions, etc. That there's laws against such is ridiculous. The funny part? I don't even LIKE marijuana. Puts me to sleep.
Hey, wait, what the hell happened to "Tickling, Religion, Guilt & Evil"? Screw it. I'm rollin' wit this thread. It's always too interesting...
The 70s? Sure, I've some positive memories. I was just into my teens at the end. OTOH, I could stand to have the whole big hair, psychedelia, me-generation, Brady Bunch, cheesie love-in, hippie popular, digital watch-wearin' stoner-fest go on a permanent sabbatical. I'd rather see the ridiculousness of the 80s return, and I don't particularly want that back, either.
Did I laugh my ass off seein' A Flock of Seagulls play a "reunion tour" wit' the singer wearin' a baseball cap? Damned straight. Does it kill me that Deadheads are now grandparents, and have argued stuff that would have made 'em sick as hippie kids? Yep. The whole deal is tiresome. Happens, though. Nihilism from the 80s and 90s died off, pun intended, and it's about damned time.
Ooh, I'm gettin' my crank on, now. Full steam crankyness! Woohoo!
How about one freakin' generation of individualists, or at least more than one popular cultural focus, such that it doesn't become a nation-wide marketing scheme? I'd delight in having just one generation of people NOT adopt a majority costume wit' more than 20 percent of the populace. 80s came closest, thus far, but Goth kids and punks were too close for many, and many mistook the Deadheads for hippies, despite hippism havin' faded. No one dug that Glam rock lived on, 'cept the Glam kiddies, and the Thrash kids HATED bein' compared to the later Grunge thing from Seattle. At least briefly, there were more factions. Mind you, they weren't the best crop of 'em, but at least there was a brief spate of diversity.
Lately, everyone wants to be what I so greatly tried to avoid the appearance of - gang members. If only in appearance, they wanna be "bad", so long as they don't risk their game-boys and $100 Nikes. Witness dvnc slide ever more towards Strel and Q, 'cause o' those meddlin' kids...
In all seriousness, though, it WOULD be nice to have just a WEE bit more ingenuity in style from gen to gen.
Where railroad tracks are concerned, there's ALWAYS gonna be somethin' afoot. From criminals and low-born ("bad side of the tracks") to bums, that's the bottoming out for most of the Americas, north and south. It's STILL more comfortable than a plane, even underneath. I agree wit' Daumantas there. 😉 I can proudly say I actually hopped 'em, way back when. Was mostly amusement, and I damned near broke a leg gettin' off the damned thing, but it WAS safer than my skateboard. That deck nearly got me killed SO many times...
I even took one, wit' a paid fare, to San Diego once, from San Jose. Was quite thrilled by it. I *was* 9, though.
Omega! Welcome back, Pastor. Good t'see ya 'round. You're the closest this thread's come to it's original topic in many posts, save for the vagarities of good and evil in the minds of the moderators! Q may deny goin' to church, but I'm bettin' that, if you got a gathering goin' on in one every Sunday, play and all, he'd go again. I'm always glad that Christ fellow reminded all and sundry that the world's the worship place of the almighty. Nearly every popular monotheistic faith can dig that notion, as can several of the lesser known!
Ooh! Wait, amk714 brought the thread back around to the main topical focus? Props for that, sir.
Philosophy CAN be taught without religion, in my observation. I learned it thusly. It's just WAY harder for a child to grasp. You've not tried this, I reckon, or you'd know this already. Kids that HAVE a belief in a "higher power" are STILL tough to teach at times where philosophy contests wit' fun. Those wit' nothin' more than mom and dad to fear are a tougher sell. Empirical efforts have shown me that one, brother.
Mom wasn't of a Christian faith (still isn't, either) but she made a point of having me read about and understand what she called the "big religions" and the concepts of higher powers. My mom's Grandfather was Huron, and that's the teachings she learned as a child and holds to, now. She had me chose my faith based on my learning (which is to say that I disagree with you, Steve, and I *am* proof a kid can learn and decide). I learned least about Moslem faith, 'cause I didn't dig what child's eyes saw as hostile and agressive. I learned the basics of Christianity, and like that Christ guy's notions of love and unity. I still believe it's all about the love, and that Christ fellow did help my faith in such a notion. I learned about the Judaic faith mostly from kind and informative elder folk in my 'hood as a kid. Neat songs, too. Got invited to holidays wit' 'em, and still go when I've the ability. Learned about the basics of the Hindu faith. Was even lucky enough, in my high school years, to be given a copy of their book (never could remember the spelling - something like Bagavad Gita. Please forgive the error). That one was complicated, and I got more from Gamelan musics in college (Gamelan, from Java, is used to tell the stories to kids, and is also used in dances for rich folk). I wasn't voting age yet when I'd had the basics down, though. I was a curious kid. Read about the Greeks and Norse, and a bit about the Celtic, though there was a curious absence of Wiccan tracts that surprises me now, given how known that faith is, and how prevalent the info is now. Mind ya, Steve, no religion offered me a big bag of candy. I'd've ratted 'em out to mom, too. 😉
It's still all about the love, for me. I don't care what a body cares to call a higher power, or if one believes such is possible. I don't care what ants think about me, either. I figure that, so far above me on the scale of evolution, such a power probably doesn't dwell long on my fool notions, so long as I ain't messin' up too badly. Respecting the faiths of others is part of respecting the people, which to me is important. I agree wit' Hal, there. I do also agree wit' Jo that a parent must TEACH his kid about such. They don't just spontaneously learn it, after all. My kid would worship Pokemon or the like. I'd've have worshiped comic books. 😉 Teachin' kids, now, about the fact that Muslims are PEOPLE and that their faith is similar, and that terrorism ISN'T a religion, but a violent politic, is important.
There's so much common thread with the faiths that it's not hard to avoid offending others, and I manage well wit' friends of many faiths and cultures.
Man this is a monster of a post. Hadda catch back up to y'all. I hope no one is crazy enough to quote the whole thing!
Q, Strel, can ya BELIEVE that this monster walks again? The sheer intelligence of the posters is delightful. Jo, watch out for Strel. He'll charm the socks off ya. 😉
*phew*
Strelnikov
4th Level Red Feather
- Joined
- May 7, 2001
- Messages
- 1,812
- Points
- 0
Quoting Iggy again:
"Maybe we should wait untill kids have the capacity to understand religion before we show them religion."
And Big Jim:
"I'd agree with that."
*sigh*
Fellas, Joby's a mom. I'm a dad. She and I have both explored this issue from both sides now. We know what we're talking about. With all due respect, until you've been a parent, you don't.
Strelnikov
"Maybe we should wait untill kids have the capacity to understand religion before we show them religion."
And Big Jim:
"I'd agree with that."
*sigh*
Fellas, Joby's a mom. I'm a dad. She and I have both explored this issue from both sides now. We know what we're talking about. With all due respect, until you've been a parent, you don't.
Strelnikov
Strelnikov
4th Level Red Feather
- Joined
- May 7, 2001
- Messages
- 1,812
- Points
- 0
dvnc...
Nice day, eh? It's aboot time you started posting here again. Good to hear from you again, you hoser!
Congrats on your marriage. May your lives be long, happy and prosperous.
Strelnikov
Nice day, eh? It's aboot time you started posting here again. Good to hear from you again, you hoser!
Congrats on your marriage. May your lives be long, happy and prosperous.
Strelnikov
I think Jobe makes some good points. I think religion works for some people and others it doesn't. Personally, I am agnostic. I don't know if there is a god, and I choose not to worry about it too much. I know religion and spirtuality can help a lot of people but it can also screw up a lot of people.
D
Deleted member 2452
Guest
nice tto see you back dvnc
i noticed i'm the only one you singled out to disagree with😛
now i have to ask you, are you telling us that your mother just let you go exploring (religions) with out any supervision? she didn't ask anything? you didn't talk to her at anytime, about what you learned?
i agree with strel, joby, and myself. children DO NOT have the capacity to understand religion, and to decide for them selves. dvnc possibly being a remarkable exception.
steve
i noticed i'm the only one you singled out to disagree with😛
now i have to ask you, are you telling us that your mother just let you go exploring (religions) with out any supervision? she didn't ask anything? you didn't talk to her at anytime, about what you learned?
i agree with strel, joby, and myself. children DO NOT have the capacity to understand religion, and to decide for them selves. dvnc possibly being a remarkable exception.
steve
Steve, you agree with yourself? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Good to see you back, dvnc, and congratulations again on the nuptials. May you be as happy as me and Mrs. Daumantas.
Good point on teaching kids about religion, Joby. Somebody has to teach kids values about something, and who better equipped than their parents?
Good to see you back, dvnc, and congratulations again on the nuptials. May you be as happy as me and Mrs. Daumantas.
Good point on teaching kids about religion, Joby. Somebody has to teach kids values about something, and who better equipped than their parents?
