Tickling vs Pain

[drew70]

We all dig tickling, no secret there. For those who enjoy tickling your victims, do you also enjoy hurting them? To me, pain is about the most counter-productive impediment to tickling out there. It's the antithesis of tickling. The two are as diametrically opposed as black and white, day and night, left and right, etc.

I saw a clip in the vidclip section, that really speaks to how low we as human beings are capable of stooping. This guy had a naked woman strapped in a vertical spread eagle against a wooden cross. Nothing wrong there, we've all seen many tickle scenes like this. Only this guy doesn't start tickling her. He starts jabbing her with something he calls a "wasp" that delivers a wasplike sting, but leaves no mark, so if she goes to the police, there's no proof of abuse. You can tell it's painful as hell, but evidently that's the point. Poor woman was terrified, you could see it in her eyes. Then he takes a large buckknife and presses the blade against her tit, while he's still jabbing her with that fucking cattle prod.

Now, I know some of you people will say, "Drew, it's not like you say. It's consensual BDSM 'play.'" Hey come on. I'm no stranger to BDSM. A few whips here. A little hot wax there. It's not my cup of tea, but still a respected form of fetish play. However what I saw in that clip was barbaric even by Alchaeda standards. This guy was blasting her in the most sensitive areas possible, her nipples, bellybutton, and vulva, to name but a few, AND he was getting off from it!

Some of you are probably thinking, "Drew, how bad could it be? These BDSM sessions employ safewords just like tickling sessions. It's no different." Well, all I can say is that there was no safeword arranged in this session. How do I know that? Because this poor woman had a ball gag in her mouth and couldn't have uttered a syllable even if her life depended on it! This tells me that the guy in charge didn't give a shit when she might have had enough. He'd keep it up, until HE decided she'd had enough.

I have to take a stand here, and say this wrong. It's beyond wrong, it's dispicable and reprehensible. For us to embrace such barbarism as something sexy and exciting speaks volumes as to the collective character of our community. Come on, folks. We're better than this...

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?t=74303

 

[marcusb]

She may have had a "safe signal" like snapping her fingers or something (since she was gagged).

 

[Mimi]

You take some of these very same girls who subject themselves to that sort of torture, and ask them how they'd feel about being bound in a similar fashion and TICKLE TORTURED, and they'd tell you that you were a barbaric sick freak.

Something you are failing to grasp here is that some people GET OFF and GET AROUSED by the sensation of pain, the same exact way we get off and get aroused by tickling. She was NOT being abused. No more so than any of us are who are tied down and tickled beyond our wits are. It's what TURNS US ON. Just because you do not understand it, does not mean it's wrong.

Most in the BDSM community would MUCH rather be stung repeatedly with a wasp, then be tickled. Does that mean we should be drug out in the street and shot because we partake in something others view as sadistic and cruel? Of course not. CONSENTUAL. That's they key word!


Mimi

 

[isabeau]

i have had men tell me that women that they would like to tickle are terrified of it, and have asked for pain instead. to me its what each person prefers. i havent experienced pain in this sense ever before, only spanked as a child, however i find it fascinating to wonder if i would enjoy it or not. and not to disagree, drew, but i didnt notice any terror in her eyes. i believe she knew beforehand exactly what was about to happen. this brings up that argument about the tickle torture in SE Asia, where some have said the lee was tortured without her consent. it will only bring up more controversy in which some will say yes she consented and others will say no she did not.

it just amazes me however that there are people who preferr pain over tickling, but to each their own, i would never judge anyone for their own sexual preferences and whether they prefer pain over tickling.

as Mimi said to some being tickle tortured would be like their worst nightmare.

not sure if this makes any sense.

isabeau

 

[TickledToDeath]

Most everyone in the bdsm world would rather be beaten til they are bloody than be tied and tickle torured!
Tickling is a "hard limit" to them. Go figure.
IN the same breath, they view tickling as harmless childs play/ baby games while screaming bloody murder as if you were skinning them alive if you tickle them!
Threaten to tickle torture them and you will strike fear to their soul.


TTD

 

[Redmage]

Normally, Drew, you're on my ignore list simply because so many of your posts are so utterly lacking in clue. This one was brought to my attention, though, as particularly egregious, since I'm the "guy" in question here.

To me, pain is about the most counter-productive impediment to tickling out there. It's the antithesis of tickling.

I can respect that. Different strokes, and all that. If you'd stopped here, I wouldn't have a thing to say. Of course if you'd stopped here I probably wouldn't have ever heard about this.

This guy had a naked woman strapped in a vertical spread eagle against a wooden cross.

Right off I can tell that you just weren't paying attention. She was tied between two upright poles, not to a cross. Picky detail? Perhaps, but it shows that you really weren't watching closely enough to develop much of an informed opinion about what you saw. It's not hard to see the facts if you're observing instead of judging.

Only this guy doesn't start tickling her. He starts jabbing her with something he calls a "wasp" that delivers a wasplike sting, but leaves no mark, so if she goes to the police, there's no proof of abuse.

Like I said, clueless. Drew, I've asked you before if you even think about what you write, and this sort of thing is why. What were you watching, Drew? It was a video clip, right? As it happens it was a vidclip from a commercial website - you can see the site URL on the clip if you do that whole observation thing I was talking about. And yet here you are, writing as though I was cleverly selecting a tool that would leave no evidence, when you were watching all the evidence she could possibly need if she'd wanted to go to the police!

Lord-a-mercy, sometimes you even outdo yourself.

Now, I know some of you people will say, "Drew, it's not like you say. It's consensual BDSM 'play.'" Hey come on. I'm no stranger to BDSM.

Based on what you're saying here, I'd say that's fairly clearly not true.

A few whips here. A little hot wax there. It's not my cup of tea, but still a respected form of fetish play. However what I saw in that clip was barbaric even by Alchaeda standards.

As Kitten Toes noted on the thread you kindly linked to, what you saw in that clip was mild by the standards of that site. In fact it was mild compared to many other scenes that same model did - and yet she kept coming back. She worked on that site for over two years. Clearly she hated it, right?

Some of you are probably thinking, "Drew, how bad could it be? These BDSM sessions employ safewords just like tickling sessions. It's no different." Well, all I can say is that there was no safeword arranged in this session. How do I know that? Because this poor woman had a ball gag in her mouth and couldn't have uttered a syllable even if her life depended on it! This tells me that the guy in charge didn't give a shit when she might have had enough.

It tells me that you don't know what you're talking about. There are lots of ways to arrange a safe-signal when playing with a gagged partner, and in fact there was a signal arranged for that scene. For that matter there were three other people in the room with us - two cameramen and the webmaster for the site. She was one of their favoite models - they weren't about to let anything happen to her that she didn't want to happen.

People who are "no strangers to BDSM," and who think about how shoots are arranged at commercial websites, know things like that. The problem here is that you ignored my clear warnings when I posted the clip, and you ran into something that was outside your comfort zone. Then you compounded that error by trying to develop an informed opinion about something that you're clearly unable to consider objectively. A man's got to know his limitations, Drew.

Anyone who's disturbed by anything in that clip is welcome to ask me about it. Even you, Drew - though since you're going back on ignore, I can't promise to get back to you.

So, with those points clarified, back in the ignore bin with you.

 

[Myriads]

Drew said:

Now, I know some of you people will say, "Drew, it's not like you say. It'sconsensual BDSM 'play.'" Hey come on. I'm no stranger to BDSM. A few whips here. A little hot wax there. It's not my cup of tea, but still a respected form of fetish play. However what I saw in that clip was barbaric even by Alchaeda standards. This guy was blasting her in the most sensitive areas possible, her nipples, bellybutton, and vulva, to name but a few, AND he was getting off from it!

Some of you are probably thinking, "Drew, how bad could it be? These BDSM sessions employ safewords just like tickling sessions. It's no different." Well, all I can say is that there was no safeword arranged in this session. How do I know that? Because this poor woman had a ball gag in her mouth and couldn't have uttered a syllable even if her life depended on it! This tells me that the guy in charge didn't give a shit when she might have had enough. He'd keep it up, until HE decided she'd had enough.


I have owned slaves who orgasm from being cut. One whom I fondly remember had almost fully transposed here pain response into a pleasure one. So doing vicious things to her was needful for her enjoyment. It's what worked for her. We often talked about doing tribal scaring markings upon her, but her work made such extreem markings problimatic, so we didn't do it. The pain involved in making those would have been impressive. But she WANTED them.

Other slaves revel in thier ability to provide Master with service. This includes being subjected to unpleasent things. The physical pain might terrify and hurt, but the psychological reward after the session more then made up for the experience.

The reason why a slave is being hurt can vary. And it's almost impossible to tell what is going on in a sceen unless you are there to talk to folks involved. It's complicted personal dynamics.

Odds are the slave had a safeword. You don't need to be able to speak to have one. When ballgags are employed a grunt pattern works perfectly well. Only in movies do gags provide 100% silence. There are many communication options open. I've used grunt codes, and finger snap codes in various situations. She could also be a lifestyle slave owned by the Master in toto, and thus knows that he will not do more then she can take. Such levels of trust come into play in the most serious of D/s relationships in ways that are hard to explain unless you've been there. Putting your health/well being in the hands of a trusted other is quite the rush for many.

I have to take a stand here, and say this wrong. It's beyond wrong, it's dispicable and reprehensible. For us to embrace such barbarism as something sexy and exciting speaks volumes as to the collective character of our community. Come on, folks. We're better than this...


I understand where your feelings come from. An outside perspective on the D/s community is a partial one, and knowing the mindset that goes into relationships there is something that arises from being in the 'game'. It's difficult to explain. But it's just how some other folks get off. It looks as harsh to outsiders and our fetish looks stupid and silly to those outside THIS community.

Bloodplay. Breathplay. Electroshock. Branding. Tempraplay. Beating. Psyops. On and on. They are simply different enjoyments for different folks. Just as Tickling is your cuppa, those are the lifes joy of others. And those others come in both top and bottom flavors, just like here, with Lers and Lees.

I applaud your compassion for the sub in the shot that you link. It's the correct human response taken in the context that you come from. The problem is that your context is not the one that the people in the shoot were in.

Myriads

 

[Edge]

Ok I'm not personally that into S&M pain. But this thread is good because there are some people on this board (and I'm not acussing any ONE person on this board of being like this but...) that try to "justify" being into tickle torture. It's "Just tickling". It's not pain and S&M. Just be honest, this is pretty kinky. Tying up someone and tickle torturing them...that IS kinky. I don't think you need to compare it to S&M and try to act like its 'less' kinky then that so its ok that you are into it. Sure S&M is pain, but tickling someone while they are tied down is worse "torture" for many people. So what makes S&M that much worse then tickle torture? I'm just trying to say that people are into whatever they are. Like even if someone is into being tied up and tickle tortured...think of their reaction while it's happening. They laugh to the point of tears, they scream, they beg, they try to get away really bad...and people get off on that...torturing someone like that...you think thats ok? Some people would thinK WE are crazy for being into that...
my point is don't judge people for what they are into.

 

[LindyHopper]

Drew, you really ought to give it a rest. This post wasn't written to promote intelligent discussion on a topic. It was written to pick on Redmage. And as of this count, I see six posters (plus seven if you count me) who are declining to jump on the bandwagon - if you can even count one person, ranting to himself, as a bandwagon.

I'm sorry Drew, but I think you lose. If you two have had disagreements in the past, you should leave them there. The rest of us aren't interested.

 

[drew70]

You take some of these very same girls who subject themselves to that sort of torture, and ask them how they'd feel about being bound in a similar fashion and TICKLE TORTURED, and they'd tell you that you were a barbaric sick freak.

I'm sure that's relevant to a discussion somewhere, but not this one.

Something you are failing to grasp here is that some people GET OFF and GET AROUSED by the sensation of pain, the same exact way we get off and get aroused by tickling. She was NOT being abused. No more so than any of us are who are tied down and tickled beyond our wits are. It's what TURNS US ON. Just because you do not understand it, does not mean it's wrong.

Ah...the condescension has started, as I knew it would. Yes, I DO understand AND grasp that some people are into the sensation of pain. If you read my topic post you'll see I made this very clear. This is not a case of intolerance of other fetishes. I was not objecting to SM in and of itself. What I was objecting to was the ferocity at which the sadist deployed the wasp or cattle prod, whatever you'd like to call it, used in conjunction with a Bowie knife. I was objecting to the savagery and brutality and the fact that no safe word was employed.

Most in the BDSM community would MUCH rather be stung repeatedly with a wasp, then be tickled. Does that mean we should be drug out in the street and shot because we partake in something others view as sadistic and cruel? Of course not. CONSENTUAL. That's they key word!

Pretending for the moment this actually applies to the discussion, you don't know what "most in the BDSM community" would rather take, any more than I do. And what's this about being dragged out in the street and being shot?? I never suggested anything remotely bordering such action.

I'm saying that we in the tickling community ought to distance ourselves from such extreme practices. For example would you condone tickling somebody while their head is held under water? No?? Neither do I, yet by your philosophy we're both being intolerant of "consentual" adult activity. There comes a point when we have to ask, is it worth totally dehumanizing somebody in order to get our rocks off. For the man in that vidclip, that answer is an obvious affirmative. Rationalize it all you want, it's still wrong, and will always be wrong.

 

[Amanda]

I agree with Mimi.

Pain is torture to some, but pleasure to others, just like tickling.

Many people hate being tickled, much more than they hate pain, because it is torture.

It all depends on the person's preference!

 

[drew70]

Drew, you really ought to give it a rest. This post wasn't written to promote intelligent discussion on a topic. It was written to pick on Redmage. And as of this count, I see six posters (plus seven if you count me) who are declining to jump on the bandwagon - if you can even count one person, ranting to himself, as a bandwagon.

I'm sorry Drew, but I think you lose. If you two have had disagreements in the past, you should leave them there. The rest of us aren't interested.

If this type of barbarism is embraced by the community at large, we all lose, Lindy. Not just me. If you think I'm the only one who objects then take a look at the thread in which the clip was posted.

Myriads, your comments are helpful in educating people unfamiliar with the BDSM lifestyle. While I do admit I find the concept of "slave ownership" insidious, I don't object to consensual play. However, if the play involves injuring somebody such as branding and scarring, it's going too far, in my opinion. Balance and moderation are wonderful things.

Also, in the responses so far, I've heard a lot of talk about those who are into receiving pain, but nothing about those who get off from giving it. I maintain that a man who gets a boner from hurting women has no place among human habitation. Dress it up all you like, call it "consensual play" or whatever, the bottom line is guys like the one in the video get a woodie from hurting women, and are very unlikely to submit to the same dehumanizing abuse they are so willing to dish out.

 

[Mimi]

I'm sure that's relevant to a discussion somewhere, but not this one.

It's completely relevant. You just don't want it to be because it detracts from your narrow viewed argument.

Ah...the condescension has started, as I knew it would. Yes, I DO understand AND grasp that some people are into the sensation of pain. If you read my topic post you'll see I made this very clear. This is not a case of intolerance of other fetishes. I was not objecting to SM in and of itself. What I was objecting to was the ferocity at which the sadist deployed the wasp or cattle prod, whatever you'd like to call it, used in conjunction with a Bowie knife. I was objecting to the savagery and brutality and the fact that no safe word was employed.

And IF you did honestly understand and grasp the masochistic frame of mind, and BDSM practices and activities, you would KNOW that what was being done to her was fairly LIGHT BDSM play, and she was not mistreated in any way. She most likely highly enjoyed the session. If not from the arousal she experienced from the activities themselves, then from the pleasure she got from pleasing the Top in that session.

Pretending for the moment this actually applies to the discussion, you don't know what "most in the BDSM community" would rather take, any more than I do. And what's this about being dragged out in the street and being shot?? I never suggested anything remotely bordering such action.

Again, you proved your blatant ignorance by the argument you are trying to make here. I don't even need to defend my education and knowledge of the topic in light of the ridiculously off base claims you're trying to make. And perhaps I did exaggerate your call to arms a bit by saying being taken to the street and shot, but you are saying that the sort of activity being conducted in the video is disgraceful and humiliating and therefore should be more or less condemned, well the same could be said for tickling and tickle torture. They are no different at all in terms of actual session conduct.

I'm saying that we in the tickling community ought to distance ourselves from such extreme practices. For example would you condone tickling somebody while their head is held under water? No?? Neither do I, yet by your philosophy we're both being intolerant of "consentual" adult activity. There comes a point when we have to ask, is it worth totally dehumanizing somebody in order to get our rocks off. For the man in that vidclip, that answer is an obvious affirmative. Rationalize it all you want, it's still wrong, and will always be wrong.

I highly doubt anyone would consent to being tickled while their head was being held under water. Therefore it would be non-consentual, and therefore completely unrelated to the discussion at hand. Now if someone DID consent to that sort of play, that would be their business and we as a fetish community would hope that they would select a partner or Top who was trustworthy and experienced, who would cause them no serious damage. And we totally dehumanize our play partners when we tickle them to the point of tears, silence, gasping for air, wetting themselves, and sometimes even unconsciousness (which has happened on several occassions at NEST, a highly respected tickling play party). Why aren't you demanding a cease action on tickle torture as well, then? According to you it's wrong and will always be wrong, yet you engage in it.

You are welcome to your views, but understand that most of us reading this thread simply see you as a hypocrite.

 

[TicklishSinner]

i guess the bottom line would be "whatever tickles your pickle''

 

[Redmage]

Lindy, Mimi, Marcus, TTD, Isabeau, TS, thanks for the kind words. Myriads, nice examples. It's certainly true that there are many who enjoy receiving what others would consider "pain." And thankfully there are those who enjoy giving it as well, since otherwise those in the first group would be mighty lonely and frustrated.

Unfortunately I think you're all (we're all) just talking to the wind. There are so many bad assumptions cluttering up Drew's post that I very much doubt he'll be able to hear anything you say. He seems to be more comfortable believing what he wants to believe, since he lacks any real knowledge of me or what happened in that clip.

Even when I posted my reply to him it wasn't with any hope of getting through the armor of his preconceptions. It was simply to correct some of his false statements, bad reasoning, and bogus assumptions for the sake of other readers. But I do appreciate your thoughts and efforts here.

 

[Fred46]

060220 TMF Tickling Discussion Tickling versus Pain

We all dig tickling, no secret there. For those who enjoy tickling your victims, do you also enjoy hurting them? To me, pain is about the most counter-productive impediment to tickling out there. It's the antithesis of tickling. The two are as diametrically opposed as black and white, day and night, left and right, etc.

I am not into pain, either giving or receiving. From your description, that clip would not be my thing at all. I would not enjoy that kind of thing at all.

There were a couple of clips from Real Tickling where the lee complained of discomfort from the stocks on her ankles, and that detracted quite a bit from my ability to enjoy those clips. For me to enjoy it, the lee needs to be comfortable except for the tickling. That means she has to have enough air, etc. It also means that she can't cry. I enjoy seeing a lee get a good tickling, with lots of good, hard laughter, squealing, turning red, squirming, and playful begging, but I need to know that it's all in good fun. If any of you have TC 5024, you will know what I think of as an ideal tickling session. She is such a dreamboat! God bless her!

I am morally opposed to depictions of physical abuse. I have heard of a cases where people were turned on by torturing people to death. The BTK killer comes to mind, but there have been others. It makes my blood run absolutely cold. I feel it is not in society's best interests to feed or encourage such inclinations.

I believe what Mimi and others said, that some people prefer pain to tickling, and I might be able to enjoy seeing a woman getting spanked on her sexy bottom as long as she laughed. I would not want to see it get out of hand. I would certainly not want to see anyone being scarred. Of course, I can't understand why anyone gets a tattoo, which I consider to be a form of scarring.

I am also morally opposed to hockey. The other day I heard part of a post-game show after a Phoenix Roadrunners game. One of the commentators said words to the effect, "It was a good, physical game. There were a couple of fights for the fans..." Hockey is notorious for violence, and that comment reminded me that fighting is encouraged as part of the game that helps to draw fans, and advertisers. I think it is sick. It panders to an aspect of the human personality that I feel it is better to suppress. I should mention that when I was in school, when a fight broke out I turned and headed away from it, while many others eagerly rushed to observe the fight. They might be the hockey fans. They also might be the ones drawn to a website such as you described.

I have never heard of anyone (seriously) being tickled to death. I have heard of people being beaten or tortured to death, and that influences me to look with great reservations on depictions of pain and scarring. I am not advocating banning anything that is safe and consensual, I am just saying that it is not my thing and I think it may be a harmful influence.

Fred46

 

[Redmage]

Fred, you're probably right - the site where I did that shoot almost certainly wouldn't be for you. Of course you'll probably also want to avoid websites like ticklehorror.com and some of the more aggressive clips from TC Video. Most Japanese bondage erotica wouldn't be your cuppa either, and you definitely want to steer clear of websites like hogtied.com, waterbondage.com, and wiredpussy.com

I should mention that when I was in school, when a fight broke out I turned and headed away from it, while many others eagerly rushed to observe the fight. They might be the hockey fans. They also might be the ones drawn to a website such as you described.

Generalizations are risky things. Many hardcore SM players (including me) are really quite gentle. You will probably find a number of hockey fans here on the forum, but you won't find any in my household.

I have never heard of anyone (seriously) being tickled to death. I have heard of people being beaten or tortured to death, and that influences me to look with great reservations on depictions of pain and scarring.

How do you feel about NASCAR racing, skydiving, and rock climbing? People are certainly killed doing those things, after all.

The critical difference is that you'll have a hard time finding many people who were willingly beaten or tortured to death. Like skydivers, those involved in BDSM are doing so of their own free will. And in fact jumping out of airplanes has a much higher rate of death and injury than consensual BDSM.

All that said, it's good for you to know what you do and don't like. I wouldn't say you should watch erotica you don't like any more than you would say I shouldn't watch it.

 

[LindyHopper]

There were a couple of clips from Real Tickling where the lee complained of discomfort from the stocks on her ankles, and that detracted quite a bit from my ability to enjoy those clips. For me to enjoy it, the lee needs to be comfortable except for the tickling.

That's how I feel about being tickled - any pain or discomfort is distracting. And any 'ler who doesn't fix the source of my discomfort immediately is just being inconsiderate, and isn't likely to be playing with me again (that said, it's never happened).

But I think the pain we're talking about here, and what's being inflicted in BDSM scenes, are two different things. I don't think most submissives who are into spanking, flogging, or other intense sensation play enjoy pain just for the sake of pain. I've talked with one who explained that she whines like a baby if she stubs her toe, but spanking gives her an overall warm rush, and puts her in a different psychological space. Another has told me that an intense flogging feels, to her, like deep tissue massage. It seems to me that this is an entirely different kind of pain, and possibly isn't "pain" at all, to those people who enjoy it.

I believe what Mimi and others said, that some people prefer pain to tickling, and I might be able to enjoy seeing a woman getting spanked on her sexy bottom as long as she laughed. I would not want to see it get out of hand. I would certainly not want to see anyone being scarred.

Well, usually this kind of play doesn't get out of hand, or result in scarring. I've found that those seriously into BDSM are very careful with their partners - I mean, they want to be able to play with them again, and it would suck to be stopped by either your partner's anger or injury! The point of using something like a "wasp" (the tool used in the clip mentioned at the start of this thread) is that it causes pain without causing tissue damage. If you watch the clip (and I'm not saying you should - that's why I'm telling you about it here!), you'd see no bruising, and no broken skin.

I have never heard of anyone (seriously) being tickled to death. I have heard of people being beaten or tortured to death, and that influences me to look with great reservations on depictions of pain and scarring.

Yeah, but I've never heard of anyone being, like, spanked to death either. We shouldn't lump all SM play in with beatings and torture, any more than we'd call any depiction of a nude human being pornographic. The intentions are completely different, as are the end results.

 

[Luv2Tickle69]

Without even having read a single response, I can tell you this much......pain has never been a part of my intimacy with ANY woman at ANY time....giving, OR receiving.....the purpose of intimacy is to engage in the kinds of activities that make both parties feel GOOD.....

....now...if pain is yer thing, God Bless.....who'm I to judge? But for me, the minute something hurts her or me....it needs to stop POST HASTE.....it's always inadvertent....something that would just happen and would be amended quickly.....but I never engaged in anything that involved PURPOSEFUL pain....and never would either.......

...but...again....that's ME.....

 

[susannah355]

Also, in the responses so far, I've heard a lot of talk about those who are into receiving pain, but nothing about those who get off from giving it. I maintain that a man who gets a boner from hurting women has no place among human habitation. Dress it up all you like, call it "consensual play" or whatever, the bottom line is guys like the one in the video get a woodie from hurting women, and are very unlikely to submit to the same dehumanizing abuse they are so willing to dish out.

I couldn't agree more. I just watched the clip and it made me sick to my stomach. What on earth is such a brutal depiction of violent eroticism doing on a tickling forum? Kudos to drew and fred and anybody else who speaks against such abusive behavior. I can't believe some of you actually defend this. God, and to think I was going to tell my sister about this forum. She loves tickling but that clip would give her nightmares.

 

[Redmage]

There's an interesting article in a blog that I read from time to time. The title of the article is Two Smiles. The opening paragraph (with accompanying pictures) seems very relevant here:

Those are the two smiles of the lovely Sarah Blake, who does bondage modeling for Hogtied.com. I want you to look at those smiles and study the differences between them. No matter if you're kinky or vanilla (but especially if you're vanilla) I want you to remember those smiles the next time you hear a preacher or a politician ranting and raving against the evils of sadomasochism, sexual depravity, and sadistic abuse. He's talking about Sarah and her delicious, joyful smile.

But I think the pain we're talking about here, and what's being inflicted in BDSM scenes, are two different things. I don't think most submissives who are into spanking, flogging, or other intense sensation play enjoy pain just for the sake of pain.

Very true. Generally speaking, masochists don't like being uncomfortable: strange, but true. The intent behind pain or discomfort is very important: pain inflicted through accident or carelessness affects them much like it does anyone else. Pain inflicted deliberately by someone from whom they wish to accept it is completely different.

It seems to me that this is an entirely different kind of pain, and possibly isn't "pain" at all, to those people who enjoy it.

As my wife puts it, "There's pain that hurts, and pain that doesn't hurt. I like pain that doesn't hurt."

What on earth is such a brutal depiction of violent eroticism doing on a tickling forum?

The answer to that is on the thread where the clip was posted. I happened across an old clip from a shoot that I did some years ago and posted it with the blessing of the moderators. Their reasoning is there on the thread.

I can't believe some of you actually defend this.

Even more, some of us actually like it, despite the fact that you do not.

God, and to think I was going to tell my sister about this forum. She loves tickling but that clip would give her nightmares.

If your sister just pays attention to the warnings that I posted with the clip, she'll never see it. You apparently ignored those warnings yourself, unfortunately.

I'm curious about something, Susannah. I noticed Drew's comment in your quote-back, and since you apparently agree with it I have to ask: Drew evidently thinks that it's OK for someone to enjoy receiving pain, but terribly evil for someone to enjoy delivering it. It seems to me that those who enjoy it would have a hard time finding what they like without the second group. If you feel as Drew does, can you tell me how you work through this?

And last, but by no means least, why are you so upset by what someone else enjoys, given that it doesn't affect you in any way (except perhaps by your decision to watch it)?

 

[Fred46]

Fred, you're probably right - the site where I did that shoot almost certainly wouldn't be for you. Of course you'll probably also want to avoid websites like ticklehorror.com and some of the more aggressive clips from TC Video. Most Japanese bondage erotica wouldn't be your cuppa either, and you definitely want to steer clear of websites like hogtied.com, waterbondage.com, and wiredpussy.com

I have all six Real Tickling CDs and did not see anything on any of them that crossed the line. On tc5046 there were moments when the TIB worked on her underarms that I could tell the lee really, seriously wanted him to stop, and he did in short order. Eventually, he said, "No more pits," and worked on other parts of her that got good results without crossing the line. He is a good ler and has earned his respect, but I think lees can feel safe with him.

Would you please tell me which clips from TC Video you have in mind as being more aggressive? Is there any tickling on hogtied.com, or the others?

...How do you feel about NASCAR racing, skydiving, and rock climbing? People are certainly killed doing those things, after all...

I feel that NASCAR racing is a barbaric sport that people watch partly for the rush of watching people crash and burn. I do not approve of NASCAR, hockey, or tackle football because of the violence and danger. I don't feel the same about skydiving because there aren't a bunch of people watching, waiting for some poor slob to die. I don't think it's a good idea, though.

Fred46

 

[susannah355]

Very true. Generally speaking, masochists don't like being uncomfortable: strange, but true. The intent behind pain or discomfort is very important: pain inflicted through accident or carelessness affects them much like it does anyone else. Pain inflicted deliberately by someone from whom they wish to accept it is completely different.

As my wife puts it, "There's pain that hurts, and pain that doesn't hurt. I like pain that doesn't hurt."

The answer to that is on the thread where the clip was posted. I happened across an old clip from a shoot that I did some years ago and posted it with the blessing of the moderators. Their reasoning is there on the thread.

Even more, some of us actually like it, despite the fact that you do not.

If your sister just pays attention to the warnings that I posted with the clip, she'll never see it. You apparently ignored those warnings yourself, unfortunately.

I'm curious about something, Susannah. I noticed Drew's comment in your quote-back, and since you apparently agree with it I have to ask: Drew evidently thinks that it's OK for someone to enjoy receiving pain, but terribly evil for someone to enjoy delivering it. It seems to me that those who enjoy it would have a hard time finding what they like without the second group. If you feel as Drew does, can you tell me how you work through this?

And last, but by no means least, why are you so upset by what someone else enjoys, given that it doesn't affect you in any way (except perhaps by your decision to watch it)?

If that's really you in that clip then I hope that one day the woman you tortured kicks your sadistic ass. That's really brave and noble of you to torture a helpless woman. Must give you a real sense of putting us in our place. If you have a question with something Drew said, shouldn't you be asking him? Oh, but you only confront women, don't you, brave man? You disgust me. I have nothing further to say to the likes of you.

 

[Redmage]

I have all six Real Tickling CDs and did not see anything on any of them that crossed the line.

Did you ever watch "Without Consent" or "Say Uncle" from Realtickling?

Would you please tell me which clips from TC Video you have in mind as being more aggressive?

A couple of them come to mind. There's a clip in which Lil Dee is being tickle-tortured in plastic wrap on a hotel bed, and at one point it gets so bad that she begs the cameraman to help her. When next we see her she's been gagged, and is putting up quite a screaming, tearful struggle. When the 'ler asks her if she likes what's happening to her, she indicates very forcefully through her gag that she does not.

There's another in which a model named Hailey is bound on the floor. She's gagged early on in the video, and in the last few minutes the 'ler (TIB, in that case) tells her that he's going to tickle her non-stop for the remainder of the video, with the expressed intention of bringing her to tears. He then proceeds to do exactly that.

There are quite a few videos, actually, from just about any tickling producer you care to name, that it would probably be best for you to stay away from.

Is there any tickling on hogtied.com, or the others?

Yes, from time to time. However it's not the focus of those sites. Hogtied.com is focused on very stringent bondage and painplay (things like nipple clamps and whips). Waterbondage.com uses water as a tool of SM: things like high-pressure streams on a model's clitoris, or using a strap-on on her while holding her under water. Wiredpussy.com focuses on electrical play very much like what I did in that clip, except that they're considerably harsher than I was. All three of those sites also do a lot of forced orgasms.

Actually those sites are among the largest and most popular BDSM sites on the net, with upwards of 10,000 active, paying members each. However I'm serious when I tell you that, based on what you've told me, it would be better for you to leave them alone. There are much harsher things out there than the clip that I posted.

I feel that NASCAR racing is a barbaric sport that people watch partly for the rush of watching people crash and burn. I do not approve of NASCAR, hockey, or tackle football because of the violence and danger. I don't feel the same about skydiving because there aren't a bunch of people watching, waiting for some poor slob to die.

Well, at least you're consistent. If you don't mind a suggestion, though, you might try making fewer assumptions about the way those who like such things think. It's always risky to try to read another person's mind, especially when they're coming from a perspective that you can't understand.

But, that's free advice, so take it for what you pay for it.

 

[Redmage]

If that's really you in that clip then I hope that one day the woman you tortured kicks your sadistic ass.

LOL! Actually, she hugged me afterward.

That's really brave and noble of you to torture a helpless woman. Must give you a real sense of putting us in our place.

Oh, please. You clearly don't understand what you were watching, and you know nothing at all about me. You might do a little research on posts I've made in the past, particularly the recent thread on people who claim they aren't ticklish.

If you have a question with something Drew said, shouldn't you be asking him? Oh, but you only confront women, don't you, brave man?

If I cared about Drew's opinions, I would ask him. I asked you about yours. If you've been reading this thread then you've already seen me "confront" him, so you know that your comment above is silly. But, since you made it, do you think that it's somehow braver to talk to a man online than it is to talk to a woman? That seems to suggest that women are somehow easier to overwhelm intellectually. I hope you don't really believe that, because I certainly don't.