Christian Prayer Group

[dvnc]

Readin' through your posts, Jim, I'm reminded why I respect ya enough t'talk straight to ya - you show intelligence and consideration.

I liken your spiritual focus t'better folk than that TV religion guy, though. I don't picture ya hawkin' religion wit' an 800 number. 😉

S'long as them Christians here know y'ain't meanin' t'cast stones, it's all good t'me. I know ya well enough from here t'know ya t'be good people. That's enough for me.

As for debatin' religion, I don't know that we even disagree much in any way save the message given. Debatin' people versus a religion is always interestin', 'cause Christianity has the Crusades as a historical embarrassment, and folks like Ann remind me of why I like the true Christians I meet, every time. It's all about the love, for me, and anyone showin' such is always a welcome friend. Always glad t'know there's more than me wit' such beliefs, in such a diversity of faiths and beliefs.

dvnc

 

[BigJim]

As for debatin' religion, I don't know that we even disagree much in any way save the message given. Debatin' people versus a religion is always interestin', 'cause Christianity has the Crusades as a historical embarrassment, and folks like Ann remind me of why I like the true Christians I meet, every time. It's all about the love, for me, and anyone showin' such is always a welcome friend. Always glad t'know there's more than me wit' such beliefs, in such a diversity of faiths and beliefs.

dvnc

I finally thought of a way to vocalise the thoughts I had, when it was said that I was insulting to Christians. Well, the whole basis of my "crusade" is all about personal choice and the right to have it. I guess that would mean that I don't have a beef with any religious person, but only with the system and those who created them originally. Someone like Ann or Omega, who regards it as a lifestyle rather than a weapon, I don't have a problem with, because they don't use it to insist that others conform, or burn in hell. I'm not sure how to think of the phrase "true Christian" though; although I'd agree that they're both totally true of heart.🙂

 

[del]

LOL Oh really? If so, sorry....we aren't married. I can't tickle with you. That would be wrong! 😛

Ann

Oh! thanks for telling me, I could never be caught in a position of such abominable unrighteousness 🙂

 

[BigJim]

Oh! thanks for telling me, I could never be caught in a position of such abominable unrighteousness 🙂

Are you doing this for a bet Del, or what?

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Oh! thanks for telling me, I could never be caught in a position of such abominable unrighteousness 🙂

So Del, are you a sinner, or are you one of those hypocrites who feels they are Holy and righteous enough to judge others?

"Let he among you, that hath not sin, cast thy first stone"

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Are you doing this for a bet Del, or what?

The Christian faith does have a few people like Del, who feel they are so righteous and holy, and feel they are a "saint among sinners".

I pity Del, because he is totally missing the point of Christ's teachings.

Did Jesus rebuke and scorn or "embarrass" people in order to get his point across?

No, he left that to the church.

I remember a parable that Jesus told about 2 men praying in the Temple

The 1st man prayed and said "Lord, I thank Thee for making me a man of righteousness. I have not cheated, lied, stole and kept Your Commandments. Unlike the person next to me who defiles Your Temple with his very precense. I thank You Lord, for not making me like him.

The 2cd man simply fell to his knees and said "Lord, have mercy upon me, a sinner"

Del reminds me of the 1st person. A person who is so wrapped up in his self-righteousness, that he cannot see that he, himself, is a sinner.

 

[TicklingDuo]

Been there, done that!

TM, your quote of that pasage reminds me of an experience I had once. I happen to be a Catholic Christian. One day, I was meeting with my spiritual director. We usually did confession while we met. We had our meeting and I confessed...only to have him say that he couldn't absolve me. The reason was two-fold. The sacrament is not valid if the person confessing is not repentant. AND, what I was confessing was so stupid that it made no sense anyway.

What he ended up teaching me in that was that I was trying to save others myself (in effect) rather than letting the Lord do it. Rather than being an instrument to draw others to Him, I was chasing them away by browbeating them. He told me that he couldn't absolve me until/unless I realized what I was doing and what the real sin was. Best lesson I ever learned. The Lord is God, the Lord alone!

Ann

 

[del]

Judge not that ye be not judged

"Judge not that ye be not judged"

When the righteous man speaks the truth it shines a light into the dark corners of the guilty heart of the wicked who have hypocritically hidden their lust of the naked flesh and denied their true nature.

See how guilt and anger burn in their hearts.
See how the wicked seek a scapegoat for their own sin.

COME OUT! You demons of unrighteousness and set their hearts free!

 

[BigJim]

Re: Judge not that ye be not judged

"Judge not that ye be not judged"

When the righteous man speaks the truth it shines a light into the dark corners of the guilty heart of the wicked who have hypocritically hidden their lust of the naked flesh and denied their true nature.

See how guilt and anger burn in their hearts.
See how the wicked seek a scapegoat for their own sin.

COME OUT! You demons of unrighteousness and set their hearts free!

When it comes to raving fundamentalists, I feel really sorry for anyone who isn't an anglo-saxon heterosexual, because they're either of inferior blood and not "God's" chosen people, or they don't fit "God's" incredibly narrow-minded scheme of acceptability.
That means all the gooks, kikes, queers, spooks, spicks,n***ers, dagoes, wops, limeys and dykes would all be extinct from the Earth and then all you'd be left with would be close-minded, fanatical red-necks. What a boring world that would make, would'nt it?

Personally, I'm perfectly comfortable with my lust for naked flesh. ( And feet! ) As long as I only use it to create positive vibes between me and whoever else is involved, then that's cool. And if the God I truly believe in is offended by that, then me and the Devil have got more in common anyway.

 

[TicklingDuo]

Re: Judge not that ye be not judged

"Judge not that ye be not judged"

When the righteous man speaks the truth it shines a light into the dark corners of the guilty heart of the wicked who have hypocritically hidden their lust of the naked flesh and denied their true nature.

See how guilt and anger burn in their hearts.
See how the wicked seek a scapegoat for their own sin.

COME OUT! You demons of unrighteousness and set their hearts free!

Hmmmm....the Scripture according to Del? Really, Del! If you're going to quote the Word of God, quote it. Don't try to put words in God's mouth. YOUR the one who will choke on it.

I don't know about anyone else. But, I'm sick of this game. I'm out.

Ann

 

[BigJim]

Re: Re: Judge not that ye be not judged

Hmmmm....the Scripture according to Del? Really, Del! If you're going to quote the Word of God, quote it. Don't try to put words in God's mouth. YOUR the one who will choke on it.

I don't know about anyone else. But, I'm sick of this game. I'm out.

Ann

It would'nt be so trying Ann, if only he'd get his punctuation right! 😀

 

[dvnc]

It's just sad to see someone trying so hard at something, and offending the very people their misapplied effort is attempting to "save".

Del's not got what Ann's got - a grasp of her personal faith and an understanding of the faith's specifics. The hypocracy of such rings as falsely as it does because it's MISUSED.

Ann is righteous, in my eyes, and I'm NOT Christian. I deeply respect Ann, though, 'cause her way is clear, caring, and respectful, and thus respectable. Same's true for me of BigJim. He's a bit less delicate than Ann (*snicker*), but my jolly green friend is likewise respectable in his focus.

I don't respect the treatment Del is givin' me, as a reader of this forum. It demeans me. Ann's repects me. I'll live happily knowin' that them true Christians are about the love.

*Note: "True" is a complex word, especially when used as an adjective. Several meanings apply here. I used it to connote "rightful, steadfast, accurate, honest, and truthful."
Source: Mirriam Webster's site
http://www.m-w.com

Hate it when I ain't clear. Sorry 'bout that!

dvnc
...ever Rick Jones t'ya, Jim!

 

[Texas_Tickle]

It's just sad to see someone trying so hard at something, and offending the very people their misapplied effort is attempting to "save".

Del's not got what Ann's got - a grasp of her personal faith and an understanding of the faith's specifics. The hypocracy of such rings as falsely as it does because it's MISUSED.

Ann is righteous, in my eyes, and I'm NOT Christian. I deeply respect Ann, though, 'cause her way is clear, caring, and respectful, and thus respectable. Same's true for me of BigJim. He's a bit less delicate than Ann (*snicker*), but my jolly green friend is likewise respectable in his focus.

I don't respect the treatment Del is givin' me, as a reader of this forum. It demeans me. Ann's repects me. I'll live happily knowin' that them true Christians are about the love.

*Note: "True" is a complex word, especially when used as an adjective. Several meanings apply here. I used it to connote "rightful, steadfast, accurate, honest, and truthful."
Source: Mirriam Webster's site
http://www.m-w.com

Hate it when I ain't clear. Sorry 'bout that!

dvnc
...ever Rick Jones t'ya, Jim!

I agree with you, Dave. I am a pretty tolerant person, but if there is one thing I cannot stomach is Christian hypocrasy, and I am a Chirstian myself.

I hate it when people are so wrapped up in their own self-righteousness and self-holiness they cannot see they are sinners, themselves.

"Do as I say, but not as I do" has become the motto of the hypocrites.

 

[dvnc]

Heck, it ain't just one religion. I've got this kinda heat from Muslims and Jews. Even had one Buddhist go this way, which REALLY tripped me. Ain't a conflict faith, after all. No crusades or purges, no inquisitions or body modifications requires. Every belief system, whether religious, political, or otherwise, has extremists, and few extremists stay within the bounds of their arguments, in my experience.

No love in any o' that, way I see it.

Religion should be shared, not sold.

dvnc

 

[BigJim]

dvnc
...ever Rick Jones t'ya, Jim!

With just a little bit of Jack McGee, thrown in from time to time? 😀😀😀

 

[BigJim]

I hate it when people are so wrapped up in their own self-righteousness and self-holiness they cannot see they are sinners, themselves.

"Do as I say, but not as I do" has become the motto of the hypocrites.

Perhaps the motto should be, 'listen to what everyone says, then do what your free-born heart tells you' ?

Ann maybe operating on a different wavelength to me, but what she says always comes through loud and clear. She doesn't make people annoyed about her religion, by acting as she and only she, can interpret the Word of God; then deal out retribution to those other as she sees fit when they don't want to know.

There are lots of people like that in all religions, but sadly, it's the other kind who get the most publicity and media coverage.

 

[del]

Let's be nice to everyone

I now understand what you all have been trying to say.

Conclusion:
Let's just all be nice to one another.
Let's come together in unity.
It doesn't matter what you believe as long as you don't hurt or offend anyone.
You all believe all people are equal in the eyes of God;
Christian,
Muslim,
Devil worshiper,
Atheist,
Jew,
Voodooist,
Communist,
Satanist,
Buddist,
Agnostic,
Nostic,
Occultist,
Hindu,
Freemason,
etc.

How nice.
All nice people go to heaven.

 

[redway10]

Since the major religions of the world (Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism) significantly contradict each other, only one (at most) could possibly be true.

And how lucky for nearly all of the faithful to believe that they were born into the 'correct' religion.

If Del was born in India to Hindu parents, would he eventually convert to Christianity (before dying a Hindu)? He probably thinks so, but that is clearly extremely unlikely.

I don't see Del currently pondering a possible life as a Muslim regardless of what 1 billion Muslims fervently believe...

Del clearly believes that God chooses his favorites souls and places them in Christian newborns (a huge advantage on the road to heaven). The other children (mostly Asian) need to renounce their inherited religion and find Christ or be damned for eternity.

And yes, the Bible says (over and over and over again), that anyone who dies without the saving grace of the one true savior, Jesus Christ, is automatically damned. The Bible does talk about ways of demonstrating, strengthening, and spreading faith, but this does not exempt non-believers in Christ from eternal damnation.

See Mark 16:16, John 14:6, Acts 4:12, and 1 John 5:12 for some examples of the firm exclusion of all non-believers in Jesus Christ from salvation (from damnation). The Bible may be open to much interpretation, but it is extremely clear on this point.

Lastly, is there any intelligent being that would punish another creature for an eternity under any circumstances? Why do so many people believe that God would be so horrifically and pointlessly cruel?

Is hell littered with the souls of Non-Christians, good and bad??? If so, then there are clearly many more good people in hell than in heaven.

Count me in.

 

[dig dug dog]

Del,

You do not have to be a relativist in order to believe that there is more than one path to God (multiple covenants, if you will). Also, even atheists can fulfill the ethical commandments (albeit, not AS commandments).

And by the way--the word is "Gnostics"!

Gdig Gdug Gdog

 

[del]

Good points - Poor English

Please excuse my poor English and spelling 🙂


Ah! so now we are all getting somewhere.
The Bible bashing has now ceased and a new era of peace ensues.

I have now learned that the true Christian accepts that all good people from where ever they are and whatever they believe are going to heaven.

CONCLUSION:
We can all live together happy at last.
I will see you all in heaven if I don't see you at a NEST.

Hooray ! 🙂

 

[BigJim]

Since the major religions of the world (Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism) significantly contradict each other, only one (at most) could possibly be true.

Actually, the contradictions are only superficial. You'd be suprised just how similar they are. Have a look at the threads "A Sensible Discussion On The Existence Of The Illuminati" and "The Big Politics/Religion Thread" for some information on that.

 

[TicklingDuo]

And yes, the Bible says (over and over and over again), that anyone who dies without the saving grace of the one true savior, Jesus Christ, is automatically damned. The Bible does talk about ways of demonstrating, strengthening, and spreading faith, but this does not exempt non-believers in Christ from eternal damnation.

See Mark 16:16, John 14:6, Acts 4:12, and 1 John 5:12 for some examples of the firm exclusion of all non-believers in Jesus Christ from salvation (from damnation). The Bible may be open to much interpretation, but it is extremely clear on this point.

Actually, though it is clear in Scripture that salvation is through the blood of Christ...it is for ALL. "I will that all might be saved." The differences of opinion come in as to the details. For me, as a Catholic, I am taught (and firmly believe) that ALL were saved the moment Christ died on the cross. It is our choice to accept it or not. If we don't do so in this life, we are shown the truth and given a final opportunity to accept Him in the next. That's why those who ask me if I've been saved get the following answer. "Yes. I AM saved. It happened 2,000 years ago on clavary and I'm still struggling to accept it."

Lastly, is there any intelligent being that would punish another creature for an eternity under any circumstances? Why do so many people believe that God would be so horrifically and pointlessly cruel?

Nope. There isn't a being who would do that...except maybe some whack job here on earth. God does not damn us to hell. We damn ourselves. Hell is a place where God is not present. That's all. If someone goes to hell, it's because they chose at that last moment as they stood before Him that they didn't want to honor or be with Him. He honors the choice. But, I think it's safe to say that it sadens His heart doing so.

As to why people believe that God would be so unmerciful (which is really what it comes down to), perhaps it's because of a lack of mercy in our own hearts? After all, if our God is said to be just as lacking in mercy as we are, we don't have to feel bad about being that way ourselves. It's a poor excuse and I don't buy it. That's why I choose to see Him as He really is...all knowing, all loving, all merciful.

Before the next question gets asked....

Scripture also tells us that, "Nothing unpure will enter the presence of God." So, people often struggle with how one who is a sinner (as we all are to varying degrees) can get into heaven. That's where purgatory comes in. It is a place of purification for us, where we can be cleansed and be ready to stand in His presence for eternity. Unlike what some misunderstand this to mean, this is NOT a second chance or another judgment.

Scripture tells us, "A man dies and then the judgment." We don't argue that fact. But, if nothing unpure can be in His presence and none of us is pure...? You get my drift? All would go to hell withOUT a choice as many believe...and almost have to believe if they don't believe in purgatory. Purgatory can be likened to going to a black tie banquet. You get there dressed in torn filthy jeans. Rather than throw you out, the host offers you a place to shower and a custom made tux to wear. It's a place to get all the gunk off and be properly prepared. That's all. The decision to let you in has already been made...the final judgment called.

I hope that helps a bit.

Ann

 

[dvnc]

Sidenote: The definition of major religions leaves out the Muslim and Jewish faiths, both of which factor highly in our culture and several others. The "biggies" vary slightly, survey to survey, and such will leave out these two, when Judaism has had a pronounced effect on many cultures, and the Muslim faith is grown majorly in the last 30 years.

ever-contributin' t'this thread,

dvnc

 

[del]

Get a good wash!

Purgatory can be likened to going to a black tie banquet. You get there dressed in torn filthy jeans. Rather than throw you out, the host offers you a place to shower and a custom made tux to wear. It's a place to get all the gunk off and be properly prepared. That's all. The decision to let you in has already been made...the final judgment called.

I hope that helps a bit.

Ann

Great stuff!
Sounds like we can sin all we like and then get a good wash in purgatory.

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Re: Get a good wash!

Great stuff!
Sounds like we can sin all we like and then get a good wash in purgatory.

So what exactly is purgatory? I was raised as Baptist and we were always taught that once you die, you go straight to Heaven or Hell.

But what is Purgatory? Is that like "Heaven's waiting room"?