Christian Prayer Group

[TicklingDuo]

Re: Re: Get a good wash!

So what exactly is purgatory? I was raised as Baptist and we were always taught that once you die, you go straight to Heaven or Hell.

But what is Purgatory? Is that like "Heaven's waiting room"?

That's one way of looking at it, I suppose. But, what we're waiting for is to be cleansed. Christ's sacrifice washed us of the penalty (hell) of our sin. But, what of the STAIN of that sin? Baptism washes away the staiin of that sin (up to the point of the baptism). But, what about after that? That's where purgatory comes in. We've still been saved from the penalty. That doesn't change. But, we can become stained again through our sins...unless of course we remain sinless from the point of baptism until death (which very few do).

(I cheated and copied the rest from above...)
Scripture also tells us that, "Nothing unpure will enter the presence of God." So, people often struggle with how one who is a sinner (as we all are to varying degrees) can get into heaven. That's where purgatory comes in. It is a place of purification for us, where we can be cleansed and be ready to stand in His presence for eternity. Unlike what some misunderstand this to mean, this is NOT a second chance or another judgment.

Scripture tells us, "A man dies and then the judgment." We (Catholics) don't argue that fact. But, if nothing unpure can be in His presence and none of us is pure...? You get my drift?

All would go to hell withOUT a choice as many believe...and almost have to believe if they don't believe in purgatory. Purgatory can be likened to going to a black tie banquet. You get there dressed in torn filthy jeans. Rather than throw you out, the host offers you a place to shower and a custom made tux to wear.

It's a place to get all the gunk off and be properly prepared. That's all. The decision to let you in has already been made...the final judgment called.

I hope that helps a bit.

Ann

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Re: Re: Re: Get a good wash!

That's one way of looking at it, I suppose. But, what we're waiting for is to be cleansed. Christ's sacrifice washed us of the penalty (hell) of our sin. But, what of the STAIN of that sin? Baptism washes away the staiin of that sin (up to the point of the baptism). But, what about after that? That's where purgatory comes in. We've still been saved from the penalty. That doesn't change. But, we can become stained again through our sins...unless of course we remain sinless from the point of baptism until death (which very few do).

(I cheated and copied the rest from above...)
Scripture also tells us that, "Nothing unpure will enter the presence of God." So, people often struggle with how one who is a sinner (as we all are to varying degrees) can get into heaven. That's where purgatory comes in. It is a place of purification for us, where we can be cleansed and be ready to stand in His presence for eternity. Unlike what some misunderstand this to mean, this is NOT a second chance or another judgment.

Scripture tells us, "A man dies and then the judgment." We (Catholics) don't argue that fact. But, if nothing unpure can be in His presence and none of us is pure...? You get my drift?

All would go to hell withOUT a choice as many believe...and almost have to believe if they don't believe in purgatory. Purgatory can be likened to going to a black tie banquet. You get there dressed in torn filthy jeans. Rather than throw you out, the host offers you a place to shower and a custom made tux to wear.

It's a place to get all the gunk off and be properly prepared. That's all. The decision to let you in has already been made...the final judgment called.

I hope that helps a bit.

Ann

So Jesus can wash away sin itself, just not the stain?

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense.

 

[TicklingDuo]

Re: Get a good wash!

LOL I told myself not to respond to him! I told myself don't even go to the thread! 😉 😛

Since Del actually brought up a valid point that many wonder about I decided to go ahead and respond to it. I have no idea if he wants an honest response. But, for the sake of any who might....

Great stuff!
Sounds like we can sin all we like and then get a good wash in purgatory.

It DOES sound that way, doesn't it? But, there's something to keep in mind.

Sin is nothing more than saying NO to God. It can be in big or little ways. The simple fact of the matter is that we can become used to slapping His hand away. It becomes routine. If we DO spend our lives in sin, with little or no thought of God, then we are much less likely to accept Him in the end when it counts the most. It is to our hearts that He reveals Himself at the final judgment. If that heart has been hardened against Him, it's very difficult to go the opposite way of what we're used to.

Not to start another subject. But, this is the precise reason why Catholics celebrate the sacrament of reconciliation (confession). It isn't that we believe that the priest forgives us. We know it's God to whom we confess and from whom we receive forgiveness. But, making ourselves swallow our pride to name those sins and look at them with another person serves two very important purposes. 1) It strengthens our humility and resolve to avoid the sin in the future. 2) It gies us regular opportunities to look at any patterns that may be forming so that we may avoid giving in to them any further.

Ann

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Re: Re: Get a good wash!

LOL I told myself not to respond to him! I told myself don't even go to the thread! 😉 😛

Since Del actually brought up a valid point that many wonder about I decided to go ahead and respond to it. I have no idea if he wants an honest response. But, for the sake of any who might....



It DOES sound that way, doesn't it? But, there's something to keep in mind.

Sin is nothing more than saying NO to God. It can be in big or little ways. The simple fact of the matter is that we can become used to slapping His hand away. It becomes routine. If we DO spend our lives in sin, with little or no thought of God, then we are much less likely to accept Him in the end when it counts the most. It is to our hearts that He reveals Himself at the final judgment. If that heart has been hardened against Him, it's very difficult to go the opposite way of what we're used to.

Not to start another subject. But, this is the precise reason why Catholics celebrate the sacrament of reconciliation (confession). It isn't that we believe that the priest forgives us. We know it's God to whom we confess and from whom we receive forgiveness. But, making ourselves swallow our pride to name those sins and look at them with another person serves two very important purposes. 1) It strengthens our humility and resolve to avoid the sin in the future. 2) It gies us regular opportunities to look at any patterns that may be forming so that we may avoid giving in to them any further.

Ann

That makes sense now. I always thought that during Confession, you were literally praying to the priest himself for forgiveness, instead of God.

 

[TicklingDuo]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Get a good wash!

So it's really a "lesser hell", then.

Not really, Mark. Hell is a total absence of God. In purgatory, we know a taste of His presence. But, we also know that we aren't ready for the fullness of that presence. That awareness itself is what most believe acts to purify us of the stains that remain. And, of course, that awareness is made possible by His grace.

Maybe this will help...

Most Christians I've met who consider themselves "saved" have had some degree of rebirth/conversion experience. As an adult, or at least old enough to make a real decision, they "found" Christ. It's often a moment when we are so keenly aware of who God is for us and the fact that we've turned away from Him in so many ways that we are reduced to tears. Imagine that. We know that forgiveness is ours. We know that His love is ours. But, it takes us a bit to set all the garbage aside to fully embrace Him. That's what purgatory is like.

Ann

 

[TicklingDuo]

Re: Re: Re: Get a good wash!

That makes sense now. I always thought that during Confession, you were literally praying to the priest himself for forgiveness, instead of God.

Many non-Catholic Christians are actually taught that. And, sadly, even some Catholics don't properly understand it.

Ann

 

[del]

Re: Re: Get a good wash!

LOL
If we DO spend our lives in sin, with little or no thought of God, then we are much less likely to accept Him in the end when it counts the most.

Ann

So if I understand this correctly, you can sin as much as you like as long as you don't forget God.

BUT. . . . .

Make sure you do not die an untimely death because it's the end of your life that counts the most.

Is this the same for all Christians here?

 

[TicklingDuo]

As usual, you refuse to see the point and want to twist things. I'm not playing this game. If I do, I'm likely to commit the sin of murder! 😛

Ann

 

[venray]

Re: Let's be nice to everyone

I now understand what you all have been trying to say.

Conclusion:
Let's just all be nice to one another.
Let's come together in unity.
It doesn't matter what you believe as long as you don't hurt or offend anyone.
You all believe all people are equal in the eyes of God;
Christian,
Muslim,
Devil worshiper,
Atheist,
Jew,
Voodooist,
Communist,
Satanist,
Buddist,
Agnostic,
Nostic,
Occultist,
Hindu,
Freemason,
etc.

How nice.
All nice people go to heaven.

Yup..all are equal in His eyes.....but if by Heaven you mean that white puffy cloud place with humans wearin' wings then you've popped a few pills to many...If however, you mean that when a being dies, the energy or "soul" within him returns to it's maker....then yup..we are all going there togeether for a different type of existence....


(I never throw my views into these threads, but It was getting a little tiresome listenin to ya preach, my friend..) 🙄

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Re: Re: Let's be nice to everyone

Yup..all are equal in His eyes.....but if by Heaven you mean that white puffy cloud place with humans wearin' wings then you've popped a few pills to many...If however, you mean that when a being dies, the energy or "soul" within him returns to it's make....then yup..we are all going there togeether for a different type of existance....


(I never throw my views into these threads, but It was getting a little tiresome listenin to ya preach, my friend..) 🙄

Gonna go to the Spirit in the Sky...that's where you go, when you die.

 

[del]

Heaven and Hell - Now you know exactly what they are

So. . . . . . .

From the feedback we understand that heaven could be a nice place a bit like earth but with nicer facilities or it could be the disappearance of the person's Spirit, Soul, or Energy back to it's source.

Interesting.

I wonder if everyone sees Spirit, Soul, or Energy as the same thing?

 

[del]

As usual, you refuse to see the point and want to twist things. I'm not playing this game. If I do, I'm likely to commit the sin of murder! 😛

Ann

Is this not the same evil spirit that crucified Christ and burnt all those people in the dark ages?
Don't you recognise it? 🙂

HELLO ! it's back again.

Fear not the light when it shines into your darkness.

 

[venray]

ROFLMAO!

 

[ShiningIce]

I think he's joking around trying to get everybody riled. Lol

 

[BigJim]

Is this not the same evil spirit that crucified Christ and burnt all those people in the dark ages?
Don't you recognise it? 🙂

HELLO ! it's back again.

Fear not the light when it shines into your darkness.

It started off by pissing me off, now it's just getting boring and repetitive and illogical.

That "evil spirit" you waffle on about Del, is a very human reaction to a pontificating tart, who'd lose a battle of wits with a stuffed iguana. If you're going to keep up with the thread, for any god's sake, try and write something new.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

Is this not the same evil spirit that crucified Christ and burnt all those people in the dark ages?
Don't you recognise it? 🙂

HELLO ! it's back again.

Fear not the light when it shines into your darkness.

del the "evil spirit" that burnt people during, and after the dark ages was the catholic church! christianity was responsable for holding back the progress of human kind for over 1000 years!
religion=war, ignorance, and greed.
steve

 

[TicklingDuo]

Is this not the same evil spirit that crucified Christ and burnt all those people in the dark ages?
Don't you recognise it? 🙂

HELLO ! it's back again.

Fear not the light when it shines into your darkness.

Nope. It's the one that caused Peter to draw his sword in the garden to try to prevent Jesus arrest. As for the light...I don't fear it and it does shine into the darkness. That's why I'm respnnding nicely rather than committing the murder! 😛

Ann

 

[Texas_Tickle]

I think he's joking around trying to get everybody riled. Lol

I would consider Del to be "borderline trolling".

 

[Texas_Tickle]

It started off by pissing me off, now it's just getting boring and repetitive and illogical.

That "evil spirit" you waffle on about Del, is a very human reaction to a pontificating tart, who'd lose a battle of wits with a stuffed iguana. If you're going to keep up with the thread, for any god's sake, try and write something new.

Amen. Or at least if Del is going to quote the Bible, he should quote the Bible, rather than making up his own Scriptures and passing it off as God's Word.

 

[TicklingDuo]

if Del is going to quote the Bible, he should quote the Bible, rather than making up his own Scriptures and passing it off as God's Word.

Amen and hallelujah!!!

Ann

 

[del]

It started off by pissing me off, now it's just getting boring and repetitive and illogical.

Boring - practice your patience
Repetitive - necessary for your learning
Illogical - since when has religion or spiritual things been logical?

 

[del]

Praise not man

Amen and hallelujah!!!

Ann

Thank you for the praise Ann but you must not praise me but praise God who has spoken through me to guide you all.
I am but a humble messenger.

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Re: Praise not man

Thank you for the praise Ann but you must not praise me but praise God who has spoken through me to guide you all.
I am but a humble messenger.

No Del, you're just a self-righteous jackass who feels he is holier-than-the-rest-of-the-world.

You are a person who is so carried away and wrapped up in your own self-righteousness and self-holiness, you cannot see that everybody is a sinner....including the "infallible Del".

Everybody has sinned and has fallen short of the Glory of God.... Everybody! Not just everybody, except for Del.

 

[del]

Re: Re: Praise not man

No Del, you're just a self-righteous jackass who feels he is holier-than-the-rest-of-the-world.

"Judge not that ye be not judged"

"Put not your trust in man"

Prayer and fasting will purge you of this judgemental spirit.

 

[asutickler]

Re: Praise not man

I am but a humble messenger.

Hmmmmmm...

If this is for real, then I would suggest that you try attending a more "mainstream" Christian church. The denomination dosen't matter, so long as it's one that dosen't engage in judgmental, "holier-than-thou" BS. 🙄


If this is a put-on, then it's a freakin' riot!! 😛