Sakura/Miroku pic + Vladdie please grow up (neither vital enough for its own thread)

[Kalamos]

No, I'm not, but thanks for coming out on us.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

LOL, now I'm more confused than I was before. Hungarian sure is rubbing off on me. LOL

 

[Kalamos]

Poor thing.

[I mean Hungarian...]

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I treat him well. I am the Emperor and he is one of my clone troopers, so to speak. One of my clumsy......forgetful......only one thats like that clone troopers....... XD

 

[Kalamos]

Yeah, and I am Kalamos the Klunky! Bow before my steely majesty...

...

Really, lay that SW stuff off.
It goes straight to your brain, eating cells off by the ton.

...

And you know we can't spare too many...

 

[nessonite1]

I suppose if you want to "creatively interperate" the female body.You seem to put weird bulges and lopsided boobies in there intentionally. Not sure why you'd want to distort like that though. It looks less "artistic" and more "wrong". Whatever floats the ol' boat.

 

[BigNorm]

Very petty Ness, very petty. You just can't let shit go, can you?

You want to know why I deleted it? It wasn't because of criticism or disagreement. You cannot even use that as a viable excuse as there were no critiques involved. I deleted it because I knew that if it stood it could have gotten nasty (it has before) and not because of me, but because of your persistance and people who support you or magically get involved just because you have (and it's usually the same bunch, so its not a coincidence). I did the right thing taking preemptive action on my own thread. It didn't get out of hand until you decided to put your two cents in, like you always do and you only posted to say that. You didn't come in the spirit of the art (you didn't even mention the art like everyone else did), you came to argue. You're just as guilty as you acuse me of being, you hypocrite.

You can't even use the "he can't take criticism card", as there was no criticism involved with the art and I am perfectly able of taking criticism. If I can take it from the art community from people far better than me I can sure as hell take it from some girl who draws so-so tickling pictures on some fetish website on the internet. You only say I can't take it to provoke me, and you know it. Just like you're making this thread about me, to provoke me.

And even then, you managed, like you always do (because you're the first and last person to do this) to gently twist what I've said and turned it into something I wasn't saying at all. You are not some innnocent angel whose trying to help. You intentionally like to stir the pot when you see no one else is going to, which at that point, you can't honestly say anyone was. Would they have because you got involved? Sure. Because people really grow a set of balls when they've got you on their side, don't they? Suddenly people start posting who wouldn't normally post or even give a shit about the art. They come for the argument, and I'll be damned if my threads are going to exist for that.

I think you are a very bias individual who is quick to jump to conclusions and assume the worst out of an individual, and its no coincidence that you are the first to say something yet again. You make it your duty to interfere with what was a perfectly under control situation and conversation and you blew it out of proportion by side-swipping it, and now that the thread is gone and people are wondering what happened, you are only telling them your side of how you decided how to interprete it. I think with only one post you made and two I made thereafter (at the point you got involved), I'd hardly call that a volitial situation or one that was wrong or immature.

You are not a good negotiator, you're proving it in this thead by creating a situation where the fallout can enter, and you don't know when to let a dead horse rest. You let yourself get blinded by your anger and need to be heard. And at that point, it was just you and another person. But now its everyone, and you enjoy that fact, don't you? The fact you made a picture and then used a majority of this thread to comment about something that had absolutely nothing to do with it, shows your persistance, scorn and spite to get your point across whether anyone was there to hear it or not originally.

It was a perfectly stable conversation between me and two others and then you come with your typical response.

You have failed to seperate matters and feelings. You have lost control. As a moderator you've done something petty, you've recreated a problem that doesn't concern you or anyone really, or shouldn't concern anyone, you blew it out of proportion, and now you're milking it and getting these people who don't even know what happened or under what contexts it happened, involved in this by using your little picture as a pretext to come in here and read as if your picture excuses what you're saying.

You're the one thats wrong here, in this instance, and you're the one that needs to grow up.

Creating a thread with little more than a pretext just to berate me further and continue your rant is wrong and childish. I don't know who you think you're vindicating by acting this way, but you're only creating more problems, not solving them.

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example of what i was talking about. i'm not trying to start a fuss, just saying, could ya shorten your responses? you really don't need to explain everything in fine detail.

wow... 60 posts in 24 hours, that's crazy.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I suppose if you want to "creatively interperate" the female body.You seem to put weird bulges and lopsided boobies in there intentionally. Not sure why you'd want to distort like that though. It looks less "artistic" and more "wrong". Whatever floats the ol' boat.

Thats not what I'm doing at all. All I'm saying is that if I had to do it over again with these pictures, I wouldn't, even with your suggestions/nitpicking. I may, however, draw them differently on my own accord in the future.

Alot of what happens in the final product depends on the pose anyway.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

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example of what i was talking about. i'm not trying to start a fuss, just saying, could ya shorten your responses? you really don't need to explain everything in fine detail.

wow... 60 posts in 24 hours, that's crazy.

And do you need to provide an example? I'm sure the villiage idiot and everyone else is aware that I post long posts.

Complaining about it does nothing.

 

[nessonite1]

We're aware that complaining does nothing. Doesn't mean nobody feels like complaining anymore. If you shorten your posts people might actually read them. Or at least we'd have less to scroll through. ^^

I don't think saying that weird eggplanty shapes or bumps on someone's belly or misplaced navels is nitpicking really. It looks bizarre. The only reasons I can think of for them are either you were rushing and not paying attention, or you just don't know how basics of anatomy, specifically female anatomy. Either way it's something you should work on improving...cause it looks weird.

 

[MistressValerie1]

Here are a few pics of what I consider to be attractive female tummies; the last one is body builder Kiana Tom. To me, they have perfect abs (and I should know, because I'm the Ab-Mistress 😉 )

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

We're aware that complaining does nothing. Doesn't mean nobody feels like complaining anymore. If you shorten your posts people might actually read them. Or at least we'd have less to scroll through. ^^

I don't think saying that weird eggplanty shapes or bumps on someone's belly or misplaced navels is nitpicking really. It looks bizarre. The only reasons I can think of for them are either you were rushing and not paying attention, or you just don't know how basics of anatomy, specifically female anatomy. Either way it's something you should work on improving...cause it looks weird.

People must be reading my posts or they wouldn't have an opinion and there would be no fuss.

You sure are being persistant about this. What exactly do you want or expect me to say? And you are nitpicking. You don't do this type of thing with anyone else. They have plenty of odd inconsistancies and errors in their work, but I don't see you criticizing them. Or, when you do offer a criticism, you say what you have to say and leave it at that. It seems as if you feel obligated to continue to tell me what you feel is wrong with it after you've already said so. I'm an artist, a smart man, and I know what you're saying. I don't need you to spell it out in layman's terms.

As for improving, I do that all the time without anyone's say so anyway. This picture is just a sample of that proof.

Also, I might add, though it won't matter to you or change your opinion, that you are the only person who has pointed this out out of the many people that have seen the picture. I'm not saying you're wrong because more people don't say anything or critique that particular part, but hopefully it will let you know that you are starting to obsess and fixate over it.

 

[Kalamos]

The last one is body builder Kiana Tom.

Talking about unsightly bulges...

Ok, I don't like muscular females.
What's the point in liking women, if they start looking like men?

...

😉

People must be reading my posts or they wouldn't have an opinion and there would be no fuss.

People usually avoid walking on dog droppings without checking if they're fresh each and every time...

They don't really need an informed opinion to know.

😉

 

[nessonite1]

I persist with you because it's mildly amusing to see you continue to defend a mishapen and unapealing body shape. The same way it was entertaining to see you defend lopsided boobies on the atf. I don't know why it's so hard for you to aknowledge when you've made some really simple and obvious mistake like, say, setting the navel 6 inches too low. I understand if you're going for some bizarre distorted figure but I somehow think you were shooting for a little more relaism than that.
I just keep hoping one day you'll draw something that looks weird (like a girl having eggplant babies)...and then admit to it. It'll never happen, but I can keep trying and hoping it will. ^^
As I said before...people just don't criticise you. Not cause you don't make mistakes, but cause they don't want your replies. I'm sure if you put a poll up and asked, anonymously, if people saw the same problems I did you'd see that a lot of people agree with me. ^^ You won't do it...but I bet anything that's what would happen.

And yeah, I know personally of a lot of people who only skim through your posts. ^^

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

You didn't answer my question. Just like you didn't answer it in the privacy of PMs a long time ago. No one saw us there and you avoided answering my simple and fair question:

Why don't you critique others the way you critique me? Or, why don't you critique me them the way you critique them?

To continually not answer this honest question is an admission of bias, scorn and vindictive behavior based and compounded by your general disliking of me. Which leads me to believe no critique you would ever give me could be helpful or have merit because you are not doing it out of the spirit of helpfulness, but vindictive behavior (which is cleverly masked in the form of a hollow critique). You may very well choose, before you even see the picture, to purposely single something out and nag it until either others agree with you or they get the courage to say something themselves. Which they will only do once you've done it. That is the way history has shown it to go down.

I believe it is spiteful behavior and not a heartfelt critique (I feel I'm being harassed by you more than helped) because its no coincidence that you only do this after we have an episode like this. It's your way of getting back to me in the only way you can- through my art.

Otherwise, when incidents like this don't happen, you either give me a general remark like you give everyone else "great work ^^" or whatever, or you avoid me altogether.

I'd like to believe you're just trying to get the fallout out of your system, and I'll allow you that. But if this continues you must realize that theres no way for me or anyone else to see it as anything but vindictive behavior. You've made your point and you're trying to break me down with it. Thats not a critique from my point of view. Thats an attack.

And if it's not something you can do with other people (and you don't) then you shouldn't be doing it with me.

So here's how it's going to go if this doesn't stop:

I will start critiquing you on a regular basis (you can't honestly say I do that or that I do it to others). So as not to be vindictive myself or show any bias, I will naturally have to begin critiquing other artists too, new and regulars.

I know a part of you is going to see this as a threat, but it's not. I just figure that if I'm going to be singled out as an individual talent, I may as well return the favor.

 

[Hungarian21]

Gone for 24 hours, thread gains 5 pages, and my lord makes fun of me....aint life grand?😛

 

[Kalamos]

Why don't you critique others the way you critique me? Or, why don't you critique me them the way you critique them?

I could answer that.

First of all, some of "them" stated that they would do without criticism.
It's fully within their right to contribute for the sake of it, for the fun of drawing, not to compete against other artists.
So Ness is leaving them alone, as per request.

Second, few people take criticism as seriously as you do - both on the giving and the receiving end.
Ness is taking your stance and words just as seriously, and she's giving you what you've given so far to others: earnest advices.

...

If you believe she is being harsh on you, please rewind back to the "Gollum eyed" accident.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I agree. Only problem is, she doesn't know when to stop. Its like saying "I won't until you admit (insert whatever it is she wants me to admit)". I'm not on trial and I owe no one anything.

There is a certain level and point and time where a critique no longer is a critique, but a shouting match. This is ridiculous and unneccessary where she has taken this and she's using the momentum of this incident to justify it. She feels like she can get away with it, so she hasn't set a limit or stopped. And you can't honestly say that I've been all that defensive. All I've really said can be summed up with the words I used: "artistic differences". If she cannot be satisfied with that, then it clearly demonstrates to everyone that for her this isn't about critiquing me, but pushing me until I give in or give up. As if this is some kind of battle of wills.

The point is, theres nothing to give in to or give up. I gave her a fair, honest answer. Just because its not what she wanted to hear doesn't make it wrong. She should accept what I've said just as I've accepted her remarks the same way.

She cannot move on. And I never said that I wanted critiques either. I just said that if called upon to take them, I can. That it wouldn't break me, hurt my feelings, etc. etc.

While that is true, and she't not hurting my feelings, that doesn't make it right to keep this going as if I'm a punching bag. Theres a point where you go from critiquing to simply being annoying. She has crossed that line. Nothing she says to me at this point is of value to me, because she'd only be repeating herself. She even admitted that she's enjoying this. That is a bit sadistic.

 

[Kalamos]

Welcome to your own world.
How is it like to be on the receiving end?

I kept telling you to be more considerate. She's just doing what you've done to others.
And despite what you said about me in the past, I don't have a bone to pick with you about art.

I still have a bone with you about that post of mine you had deleted...
But that's a different matter altogether.

I'm not spending much more time on this: you criticise people's pics.
Ness criticises your own pics.
If you think she's harsh, it's because she thinks *you* have been harsh to others.

How do I know?
Sometimes I listen to people. Figuratively speaking.

 

[LonelyKimiko]

To quote Vash the Stampede...

"Love and peace!"

😉

 

[Kalamos]

You must be kidding, Kim!
We've been of opposing ideas and opinions since 2003! 😀

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Welcome to your own world.
How is it like to be on the receiving end?

I kept telling you to be more considerate. She's just doing what you've done to others.
And despite what you said about me in the past, I don't have a bone to pick with you about art.

I still have a bone with you about that post of mine you had deleted...
But that's a different matter altogether.

I'm not spending much more time on this: you criticise people's pics.
Ness criticises your own pics.
If you think she's harsh, it's because she thinks *you* have been harsh to others.

How do I know?
Sometimes I listen to people. Figuratively speaking.

I've been well aware that critiques would be more and more likely because I give them. I am used to this as a fact of life in the art community. So you don't have to tell me "welcome to your own world". It should be "weclome to art", and I'm no newcomer to it.

This isn't about me not being able to handle that fact, its about one person deciding it is their mission to "get even" or "pay me back", as you admit, not because she gives a rats ass about me, but because she wants, dare I say, revenge. She's taken it upon herself to go out of her way to speak to me about this just because I've spoken to others about it before. She she be concerned with her own recieved critiques, not any one else's.

I am not whining about critiques. Its the matter in which it is done that is important and is the principle. You are trying to blur this as being "you get what you give". I don't treat people this way when I critique them.

Finally, yes, she may feel that way but its still not answering my question of why only me. If I asked her to stop, would she? I don't think so. And please, don't answer that for her. Don't completely dismiss this either. What I'm saying is very legitimate.

Whenever I've critiqued, its never come from malice or a sense of "I need to get back at this person". She can't say this isn't true if she's going to the extent she's going to to not help me, but prove her point and rub it in.

If this has become a matter of "an eye for an eye" she's taking more than just an eye, and for the wrong reasons. She's taking action on the behalf of others rather than herself. Misplaced, that can lead to harassement. And left unchecked, it can lead to hostility.

 

[Kalamos]

You are missing the point and getting verbose on me.
Stop now.

First of all, it's not about revenge.
It could be about justice.
And at any rate you should ask to yourself - and not to me - why.
Why does she feel like "getting even"?
Is it just jealousy on her part?


Second, I'm not answering on her behalf either.
I'm just recapping what people have told you so far.
You can do that yourself: skip through older threads.
If you care to read, you'll know.

I know why people disagree with me.
What arguments they use to anger me.
What we can't agree about.

Know yourself.


Third, you *do* mistreat people.
Out of blunt honesty or malice I can't say.
It's not like you fill my thoughts 24/7.
I'm just telling you this because I feel like telling.
Not because I love or hate you.
You're quite neutral to me.

And about that "I don't behave like this" point, think about people's feelings before stating that.
I keep telling you over and over: be *MORE* considerate to people when taking their drawings apart.
You can't tell them "the world of art works like this", and then expect them to swallow in their pride just because you're lecturing them.


Really, this stuff keeps resurfacing from time to time.
Either you are malicious, and doubly so since you deny it.
Or you won't accept that most people don't like your kind of unrelenting honesty.

You had already replied on that: "I'm just being objective, the hell with them if they can't handle truth".
So, what is truth to you, is cruelty to some.
And you're rubbing salt in by calling them sub-par.

Ness is just doing that.
She is mercilessly pounding at your pics, taking them apart as a coroner would with a body.

Since I don't care to, I won't tell if she's being fair or mean.
But she is as unrelenting as you often are with others - take Anime316's witch as an example.

Don't expect me to help the either of you two, in this endeavour of yours.
I'm just repeating the same old trite poem for the sake of it.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

It could be about justice.

A warped sense of justice then. Coming after me when I critique others (and it doesn't happen often) doesn't make sense nor is it reasonable. Its no way to be. Its unhealthy to hold all that frustration in and then blow it out all at once, especially when she's not the person being personally affected by any effects my critiques may cause.

She is the only one that does this. I can see in a warped sense how she would make it her duty to do it since no one else does. She feels this "justice" is due as if I've commited a "crime" and it's gone "unpunished".

There should be no sense of justice or vindication in something like this. You should just accept that people are going to be critiqued and let them to handle it. She should concern herself with critiques she gets, not going rambo on me for critiquing others get.

Why should I have to deal with her if I'm not critiquing her?

Its not like I'm some columbian drug lord who has a hostage or two and is demanding a randsom or I'm going to kill (critique) everyone.

I don't want anything, and I'm not here to cause problems. I critique when I do, and there should be no fallout for it. For there to be any is immature and spiteful.

A person should be able to critique in peace. Thats all I would want.

 

[Kalamos]

You should just accept that people are going to be critiqued and let them to handle it. She should concern herself with critiques she gets, not going rambo on me for critiquing others.

Maybe she feels they aren't up to it.
Don't turn meek on me now: you know you can out-type many users over here and TMF.

She's taking the sides of keyboard-impaired folks who would like to reply, but won't or can't for some reason.

I think Normie put it rather clearly: you overwhelm people with words.
Few care to reply.
It doesn't mean they wouldn't.
And it surely doesn't mean they wouldn't like to get even with you.

Apparently, something has just snapped in Nessie's mind.
And she's out to get you.
With about 3 years of pent up anger. Give or take a month.

...

Me? I would never bother with telling you how to improve your art.
I don't like you enough to.