*SPOILERS* Star Wars- Episode III: Revenge Of The Sith Discussion *SPOILERS*

[Triple T1]

I agree 100%! Sidious layed the smackdown on those Jedi,Then sent 6000 volts of Darkside up Maces ass when the time was right!Sidious had been waiting decades to unlease. A great fantasy fight would be Sidious,Tyrannus,Vader,and Maul vs 50 Jedi in the Geonosis arena.
In two trailers before Episode 3,they showed the Fantastic Four and Batman clips.It looks like they took two of the greatest villans of all time(Doctor Doom and Scarecrow) and reduced them to Corporate weenies with masks as the movie antagonists.This is most likely the result of giving the movie investers creative control,who are in real life...Corporate weenies.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I was never a Fantastic Four fan, so I can't say whats right and wrong about it. But even I noticed that the villians seemed less "super" and more just generic, run of the mill corporate titans who wants to make a power play.

It takes a certain sort to be a true villian and be believable. Palpatine is a very believable character. Ian even did some of his own saber fighting without a stunt double. And at his age thats pretty good. And in Christopher's case, its really good, though he's used to these types of roles that involve swords and dueling.

Ian McDiarmid deserves an oscar for this and all prior reprisals of the Palpatine character.

Also, he's the only actor from the original trilogy to exist in the prequal, with the exception of Anthony Daniels, Kenny Baker, and Chewbacca's actor. Generally though, these other three aren't really acknowledged much because they aren't present in a completely acting capacity the way Ian has been. They have a very minor role but deserve recognition for sticking with this series fore decades too.

Its actually funny in Ian's case. Being younger and having to wear makeup and prosthetics to make him look old and decrepid, and years later having to wear makeup to make himself look younger. LOL

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Actually, what sad about this whole award-winning process is that awards go to the famous and beautiful.

Ian McDiarmid is a name alot of people don't know, even alot of Star Wars fans. He's not young anymore and his acting credits/directing credits would take a backseat to Hayden or Ewan getting an award before him simply because they're younger, handsome and were two of the lead characters. They haven't been around anywhere as long as Ian has. But they're pretty boys, so they win by default.

In the past Frank Oz didn't get an award for Yoda because Puppeteering (at the time at least) wasn't considered acting. Ian might not get one simply because he's not a 'star'. You don't see him on Entertainment Tonight or on magazine covers. The only interviews you'll ever see him in are on the Star Wars websites.

This is all really a shame since it downplays his talent. He really does deserve an award and so does Frank Oz. Frank Oz perhaps more so, considering all these years. And not some petty award or second class award for these two just to appease the series, their characters, and the fans. I mean the same level of respect and recognition that star actors would get, like an Academy Award, an Oscar, or a Golden Globe.

Both these actors understand Star Wars in a way that McGregor and Christensan can't. They've been with it since the beginning and they should be rewarded for it beyond the cast and crew.

Its ironic actually. These two actors (Ian and Frank) represent two characters, they ARE two characters who are the Masters of Light and Darkness in this series yet they aren't given any limelight. I think thats very wrong. And while they are both humble people who had a blast to do this again, they deserve even more.

 

[Goodieluver]

Something came to me as i was watching an illigal download that george lucas wants to sue me over....lol

Was palpatine more powerful than yoda? There have been discussion here about palpatines power but yoda repelled everything and countered him. Only deciding factor was his fall off one of the senate stands.

I disliked how the droids were more human like, with banter and whatnot, id assume battle droids would be less on chatter and more on "crush, kill, destroy"

Technically, is the war still going on? Palpatine gave anakin orders to tell the droid fleet to stand down but right after this message, padme lands and anakin rushes out there, so i wonder, is the droid army still activated?

Also, was this cgi or some close looking actor but to me, the commander of the star destroyer at the end from a distance looked very very similar to General Dodonna, the commander of the death star i believe from A new hope.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

1.) The Dark Side has it's benefits. It does give the user a resolve like no other, and it empowers them in such a way that the Light Side cannot or only does when its necessary. The Dark Side, by it's very nature of course, is agressive. So physically it would play on those types of tendencies.

Is Palpatine more powerful than Yoda? It depends on what you mean. If you mean the Force itself, no. The Dark Side is NOT stronger because it lacks the fundamental property to keep itself alive- love and equilibrium.

To quote Obi-Wan right before his duel with Vader- "The Sith only deal in the absolute."

Its true. And because of this, what they do is self-destructive. So the Light Side is stronger and more resolute and sure in the greater scheme and picture of things. The Sith way is self-destructive, whereas the Jedi way promotes life and maintains the necessary ingredients to ensure positive living.


In a battle of the Force individual to individual however its really a stalemate. A Dark Side user WOULD be stronger against a Light Side user if the Light Side was not as strong with that person as the Dark Side is with the other. In the same way, a Dark Side user is just as much at the mercy of a Light Side user if their skills are not on par with whom they are fighting with.

In this case, the question of who is stronger was revealed- neither. Palpatine had the power to kill Yoda, but Yoda had the power and defense to keep that from happening. So it then comes down to who is better in a saber duel. This is something people are going to be able to argue about for a very long time.

Yoda uses the Force and form IV to fight and with Palaptine its very similiar even though their styles are personally different. I'd like to give the edge to Yoda because of his small size and his ability to jump about. It makes him a hard target to get a mark on and find an opening to kill. Palaptine is a human so would be easier to kill, but his saber skills keep him nearly invincible as well. His mastery of the Jedi Arts are clear and established in this movie and its clear no matter WHO he's fighting, he can adapt and survive. Yoda can too however, so its really a toss up.

People will root for who they want to and they won't be wrong in doing so, even if they're being bias, because both of these Masters possess similar qualities and strengths, they just use them a different way.

2.) Don't you mean Grand Moff Tarkin? General Do Dodonna works for the Alliance.

 

[Goodieluver]

1.) The Dark Side has it's benefits. It does give the user a resolve like no other, and it empowers them in such a way that the Light Side cannot or only does when its necessary. The Dark Side, by it's very nature of course, is agressive. So physically it would play on those types of tendencies.

Is Palpatine more powerful than Yoda? It depends on what you mean. If you mean the Force itself, no. The Dark Side is NOT stronger because it lacks the fundamental property to keep itself alive- love and equilibrium.

To quote Obi-Wan right before his duel with Vader- "The Sith only deal in the absolute."

Its true. And because of this, what they do is self-destructive. So the Light Side is stronger and more resolute and sure in the greater scheme and picture of things. The Sith way is self-destructive, whereas the Jedi way promotes life and maintains the necessary ingredients to ensure positive living.


In a battle of the Force individual to individual however its really a stalemate. A Dark Side user WOULD be stronger against a Light Side user if the Light Side was not as strong with that person as the Dark Side is with the other. In the same way, a Dark Side user is just as much at the mercy of a Light Side user if their skills are not on par with whom they are fighting with.

In this case, the question of who is stronger was revealed- neither. Palpatine had the power to kill Yoda, but Yoda had the power and defense to keep that from happening. So it then comes down to who is better in a saber duel. This is something people are going to be able to argue about for a very long time.

Yoda uses the Force and form IV to fight and with Palaptine its very similiar even though their styles are personally different. I'd like to give the edge to Yoda because of his small size and his ability to jump about. It makes him a hard target to get a mark on and find an opening to kill. Palaptine is a human so would be easier to kill, but his saber skills keep him nearly invincible as well. His mastery of the Jedi Arts are clear and established in this movie and its clear no matter WHO he's fighting, he can adapt and survive. Yoda can too however, so its really a toss up.

People will root for who they want to and they won't be wrong in doing so, even if they're being bias, because both of these Masters possess similar qualities and strengths, they just use them a different way.

2.) Don't you mean Grand Moff Tarkin? General Do Dodonna works for the Alliance.

Been a while since i watched new hope and i was too lazy to pop the dvd in but yeah i ment tarkin. There is a sunken face lookin commander who leaves palpatine and vader to view the construction of the death star, looked like him. Heh, already the bridge officers were lookin brittish...lol

Did you happen to notice a correlian freighter(millenium falcon) land on coruscant after the first space battle and anakin went to meet with the politicians?

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

It was important to have Tarkin make a cameo of sorts, since he'd soon by instrumental in how the Death Star was managed and run.

"Governor Tarkin! I expected you to be the one holding Vader's leash! I recognized your foul stench when I was brought onboard!"- Princess Organa

"Charming to the last."- Tarkin

LOL ^^

Nope, I didn't. There were countless freighters of the same appearance as the Falcon. It could have been the Falcon, but its more likely it wasn't. People tend to see one ship and think its the only one of it's kind, like the Tantive IV for example. There were many corvettes of the same design and model.

If it was the Falcon, I'd be interested to see (in the commentaries on the dvd) why its there.

 

[Goodieluver]

It was important to have Tarkin make a cameo of sorts, since he'd soon by instrumental in how the Death Star was managed and run.

"Governor Tarkin! I expected you to be the one holding Vader's leash! I recognized your foul stench when I was brought onboard!"- Princess Organa

"Charming to the last."- Tarkin

LOL ^^

Nope, I didn't. There were countless freighters of the same appearance as the Falcon. It could have been the Falcon, but its more likely it wasn't. People tend to see one ship and things its the only one of it's kind, like the Tantive IV for example. There were many corvettes of the same design and model.

If it was the Falcon, I'd be interested to see (in the commentaries on the dvd) why its there.

I know it prob wasnt but people know it as the falcon and not a correlian freighter

I was just askin tho if it was tarkin or not, im gonna check the movie list to see if he's credited.

"We've analyzed their attack, sir, and there is a danger. Should I have your ship standing by?"
Tarkin: "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances" Thats perfect cockiness\self assurance. Like some X wing fighter could take out a battle station, HA!.

I must say thats my fave section of the arcade game(the single joystick one) when yer either flyin at the death star, flyin on hoth or on endor and the bonus mission is the death star II and the side missions were fight Boba fett and Vader. Heh, made me feel like luke when yer ridin down the trench and you hear the "use the force luke" and the tense music plays....that and when yer sabering with vader and all the bass sounds are amplied...grrr i need to find an arcade with it again!

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

That game is cool. I don't know why they don't just make it a video game. Its been around for years. The graphics, while fast and often complex, are not impossible to duplicate. Unless theres some technical or legal reason, it seems like the x-box or ps2 could handle it.

 

[Goodieluver]

That game is cool. I don't know why they don't just make it a video game. Its been around for years. The graphics, while fast and often complex, are not impossible to duplicate. Unless theres some technical or legal reason, it seems like the x-box or ps2 could handle it.

I think because it just works better for arcade, it was 1 joystick and 1 real fire button, so it would negate many useful controllers. Theyve been focusing on the high graphic games that follow the movies. I was tempted to buy the game so i could see what was in store for the actual movie

Also i checked, Wayne Pygram is listed as governor tarkin in the sith credit so must be him.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Thats true, but you'd think the consoles would wise up and make a controller thats like a joystick. Its not even necessary really. Alot of games now don't utilize all of the controller's functionality.

 

[Goodieluver]

All games now are rpg which require analog stick and 4 buttons, eh....

I'll stick to my star wars clone campaigns and other strategy\war games.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

They have a new one coming out. I forgot what its called, but the graphics look sweet. The screen shots I saw were of a huge fleet battle, with ships from different episodes throughout the series. Even the Mon Calamari star cruisers the Alliance has, especially the MC-80Bs, which I've never seen them put into a game as a buildable ship. Its always been the winged cruisers, not the other ones. Home One might very well make an appearance, or the Executor, thats cool.

 

[FeatherFeet]

you know, i dont think mace windu really won the duel. i think he put up a good fight, but I think that palpatine was kind of putting on a pussy act just so he could turn anikan away.

"oh, im so weak...so weak..." yet he just gets up and sith lightnings mace out the window about 100 yards.....real weak. lol

i think he was faking the defeat to make himself seem more helpless so that he could turn anikan.

i mean, if sidiuous could basically stalemate yoda. (only winning by hanging onto his senate platform, where yoda feel off) i think that sidious could have taken windu. cuz windu is good, but he aint no yoda.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Yep. Just what I said and what I've been saying. I'm glad you see it this way, for how it is. Mace Windu fans will want to see it another way though. Only problem is, there is no other way to see or explain it.

EDIT:

Although Palpatine wasn't faking the pain. The energy was so powerful and tainted that it did what it did to him. Though he was exagerating it afterwards probably so Anakin would feel desperate to do something about it.

 

[Goodieluver]

It all goes into how far force precognition goes. Palpatine either knew anakin was coming or was trying to beat windu and he was losing, yes he played weak when anakin got there so anakin would help. Palpatine sensed vader was in trouble but probably didnt know that his body was gonna get destroyed. I dont think palpatine would risk his disfigurement, had anakin not shown up, windu would had killed palpatine.

Vlad, can u link me to this new game? Ive been dissapoinetd with space based games, i played the latest star trek game which you are a fighter launched from the star ship and one mission is unfairly impossible(you destroy 4 lower class starships, then destroy 1 raider frigate, then another frigate comes in then enemy fighters) and u must keep your excelsior ship alive while you in yer fighter fight off all this, unfairly impossible

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Thats the thing though. He knew Anakin was coming and was purposely trying to NOT beat Windu which seemed obvious, at least to me, in his choice of fighting style and the pace at which he was performing. He was pacing himself to match Windu, to prolong the fight as long as possible so then when he felt Anakin about to enter the room, allowed himself to be beaten and put in that situation. If he would have killed him before Anakin got there, theres no way he could orchestrate the events thereafter and he himself might look like the bad guy, which he really is and Windu would have been seen as a martyr, exactly what Palpatine does NOT want. Anakin needed that final push and Palpatine provided it by taking the huge gamble that Windu would kill him before Anakin entered the room.

Why he would take such a gamble is easily explained by his ability to foresee things through the Force. Its not like Anakin, where its just flashes and images that cannot be fully interpreted by him. Dantius is much more experienced and can see entire situations, often in clarity, detail, and certainty. Alot of what makes Palpatine such a strong leader is his ability to foresee things and direct his forces according to that. He's often able to get the jump on the enemy beforehand or know where to go or strike, or where to defend.

I don't have a link for the game. I saw it in a magazine.


EDIT:

I've just confirmed that it WAS in fact THE Falcon in the movie. There are also plenty other easter eggs I wasn't even aware of. Star Wars.com has some of them, and most of them will be on the dvd probably.

Also, heres a link to the game. Its called Empire at War. Those are some sweet graphics, especially the fleet battles. It will probably be a monster though and demand alot from a computer. I was thinking of investing into a new laptop and using this one as a backup. But I'd rather wait to see if the Pentium V processors will be out sooner than later and laptops will come with a powerful graphics card already built in.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/starwarsrts/screenindex.html

 

[Goodieluver]

Thats the thing though. He knew Anakin was coming and was purposely trying to NOT beat Windu which seemed obvious, at least to me, in his choice of fighting style and the pace at which he was performing. He was pacing himself to match Windu, to prolong the fight as long as possible so then when he felt Anakin about to enter the room, allowed himself to be beaten and put in that situation. If he would have killed him before Anakin got there, theres no way he could orchestrate the events thereafter and he himself might look like the bad guy, which he really is and Windu would have been seen as a martyr, exactly what Palpatine does NOT want. Anakin needed that final push and Palpatine provided it by taking the huge gamble that Windu would kill him before Anakin entered the room.

Why he would take such a gamble is easily explained by his ability to foresee things through the Force. Its not like Anakin, where its just flashes and images that cannot be fully interpreted by him. Dantius is much more experienced and can see entire situations, often in clarity, detail, and certainty. Alot of what makes Palpatine such a strong leader is his ability to foresee things and direct his forces according to that. He's often able to get the jump on the enemy beforehand or know where to go or strike, or where to defend.

I don't have a link for the game. I saw it in a magazine.


EDIT:

I've just confirmed that it WAS in fact THE Falcon in the movie. There are also plenty other easter eggs I wasn't even aware of. Star Wars.com has some of them, and most of them will be on the dvd probably.

Also, heres a link to the game. Its called Empire at War. Those are some sweet graphics, especially the fleet battles. It will probably be a monster though and demand alot from a computer. I was thinking of investing into a new laptop and using this one as a backup. But I'd rather wait to see if the Pentium V processors will be out sooner than later and laptops will come with a powerful graphics card already built in.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/starwarsrts/screenindex.html

But palpatine took a risk in killing windu infront of anakin, Anakin was still a jedi and after mace was killed, anakin showed remorse for his action, it was possible anakin coulda turned on palpatine in rage(which coulda been a darkside turner) but the only reason he chose palpatine was to save padme, so whether mace was killed or not, anakin was gonna join palpatine because of his promise of saving her life

Have you ever played Knights of the old republic? I cant wait to get back to school so i can play on my roomies xbox, its a great game, last time i played i was well on my way to becoming a sith. Thats what i love bout that game, your actions dictate if you are a jedi or sith.

 

[jj82277]

I disagree. I think that there was a greater purpose behind him joining the emperor. I think that it became apperant to me when he first saw padme as darth Vader, that Anikin did not really see the emperor as more powerful than him. I think that he only wanted to playcate to him so that he would teach him the force technique of saving padme. I think that he also saw a future with no Jedi. And if there were no Jedi that means that the only person that stood between him and complete galactic domination was Palpatine. I think it is very evident that he always had plans for geting rid of the old man. even when he tried to recruit luke onto his side.

now that we know the suit represents a life support system, I wonder how the story would have turned out had he not been so badly injured by Obi Wan. I think that if Padme was allowed to die by the emperor with a healthy Sky walker that he would have just tried to kill palpatine

 

[Triple T1]

When it came down to loyalties,Anakin had to choose between Windu,who was a bossy jerk and Palpatine,who was a superior he could confide with on deep personal issues.Palpatine may have been using him,but he did have some emotional attachment or he would never have personally rushed to Vaders aid when he sensed he was in danger on Mustafar.Palpatine may have also been his "father".Mad Magazine once did a Return of the Jedi spoof in which everyone was related.Now it's starting to come true!Hell, even C3PO turned out to be Vader's kid.
That was Tarkin for sure at the end of the movie.They already made an action figure of him for the Episode 3 line.Too bad they did'nt have him interact with Christopher Lee like in the old hammer films.Even though he was a diffrent actor than Peter Cushing.

 

[Goodieluver]

Vlad, whats yer fave scene\sequence from the movie

After repeated watching, ive determined my fave scene is the light sabre sequence where obi wan and anakin are dueling yet not touchin sabres then they finally connect and both of them at the same time decided to try and use a force blast on each other

Comic book guy-BEST....SCENE...EVER!

 

[jj82277]

I would have to disagree with you Triple T.

"What is it, What is its nature" the great and magestic Dr. Hannibal Lecter

The first and principal thing that makes a sith a sith is captured in one word, vanity. They have no loyalty except to their own conquest for power. I honestly believe that the only reason for Palpatine rushing to the aid of Vader the way that he did, was because he knew that he was supposed to be the only person left in the Galaxy with enough knowledge of the force to be his apprentice. remember, all the Jedi and even the Jedi younglings are supposed to be dead. the only person that could stand at his side was young sky walker.

but the idea that he was his father would be an interesting one. I think that if that were true that i would want to see another trilogy in front of this one, but that would mean getting into the negatives, and that wouldn't be cool.

But i still think that Anikin always had designs on being the ruler of the entire galaxy his way, and that he infact was using palpatine to gain knowledge of the force that he percieved was being with held by the jedi

 

[Triple T1]

Speaking of another trilogy,It seemed to me that Lucas might have added the Siths "cheating death" ability in case he wanted to bring back some old villans for another project.In the Dark Horse comics,Sideous came back by transfering his soul to clone bodies he kept in stock since the Darkside had the side affect of degenerating his flesh. When the novels try to introduce non-Imperial villans they fall flat,Lucas might have realized this.

He says he'll never due another Star Wars movie,but in an article from the early 90s he said he would never make the prequels and he was going to be best rememered for his upcoming mainstream movie Radioland Murders.....HA!!! Lucas will go where the money is.Though he will never be able to top Episode 3!

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

@ everyone (so as to answer multiple replies/points of view)-

While it is true that the Sith will eventually want to turn on their Masters, and Anakin is already displaying this by episode's end, it does make it clear that he has no intention of being Palpatine's puppet like Maul and Tyranus were. Its true that he wants the power to save Padme and that in itself was his main reason for turning on Windu. Dantius Palpatine is the only way he can attain said power, a power Palpatine never teaches him because he's led to believe Padme is dead, which further fuels his rage and adds further to his submission being more deeply rooted. Anakin may have moral conscience, but his anger and dark side tendencies are overshadowing that, and it just makes it so easy for Palpatine. Ultimately however, its love that got him into this (unlike the Sith before him) and its love that will get him out later on in life.

Palpatine's disfiguration is a product of Anakin's struggle. Had Anakin come in and slain Windu or parryed with him, Palpatine would either A- help Skywalker kill Windu, or B- set up another Tyranus/Skywalker duel, except one is not a Sith.

Either way, no matter how it goes down, Palpatine wins. Whether it happens the way it did, or Windu was forced to fight Anakin. Any way Anakin chose would have led to the Dark Side and submission to his new Master.

The thing alot of people don't seem to give Anakin credit for is that he's a very strong willed person. He's only so manipulatible by Palpatine whom has been poisoning him since he was a boy. Even with all this temptation he still has morals, withdrawls and concerns about how things ought to be done and whether or not they are moral, right, or the Jedi way. We even see a point where he's willing to kill Palpatine by himself with no one telling him he should. But he's smart enough to know he shouldn't do that, for more reasons than one. Killing him as a Jedi is a surrenderance to the Dark Side at this point. Killing him period makes the Jedi look like war criminals and would have made what happened to the Jedi an inevitability, by force, on the belief they they're traitorous. He's smart enough to know killing him now does more harm than good. Besides that, he would not survive a duel with Palpatine.

The fact is, he does everything the right way, the way he should have. Only problem is, Palpatine planned for that, which is why the series of events turned out the way they did. Palpatine knew Anakin was conflicted but they he would utlimately turn in one form or another. Anakin is strong, but theres plenty of kinks and soft spots in his armor, namely his strengths themselves.

Theres this saying- "The devil will attack your strongest points too". And its true. Alot of people believe that temptation will always play on your lesser qualities, your weak points, etc. Palpatine, like Satan, knows where to strike the ego, and his attacks go not just to the weakspots, but the least expected strong spots as well. They are just as much assaults from the front thats more guarded (strong traits) than the back(weak traits). Qualities that would normally aid a straight-arrow Jedi are being used against Anakin because of his youth and inability to control his feelings, even his basic ones. While he's a Jedi Knight physically, mentally and spiritually he's not completely mature.

After all is said and done, Anakin simply doesn't care anymore. He's bound by no particular sense of personal duty or conscience.

To wrap it up-

1.) Anakin has plans to betray Palpatine. We already know this from the original trilogy, and its reaffirmed here too. He is using Palpatine, especially later on, when Palpatine is in frail health, but he's never been strong enough physically, as Vader, to defy Palpatine. This is why he tempts Luke in the first place. Palpatine is already way ahead of this, which is why he pits the two against eachother later.

2.) Only problem is, just like his son later on, Anakin underestimates the powers of the Emperor and the Dark Side and ultimately succumbs to more than he bargained for.

3.) Palpatine forsaw enough of the duel with Windu to know that Anakin would help him. So he allowed things to proceed in the way he intended which is the end result we saw.

4.) While #3 is true, Palpatine didn't expect that Anakin would stand there and argue with Windu. He therefore used lighting to buy himself some more time at the cost of his health and physical appearance. His dark side is more apparent now than ever, as his Sith eyes have formed. He's actually stronger now than he was before. Being that he no longer has to use stealth to shield his dark aura from the Jedi, he's free to release his dark energy in more plentiful ammounts.

5.) Q: Vlad, whats yer fave scene\sequence from the movie?

A: I haven't decided yet.

6.) I'm special. And not in a handicap way. 🙂

7.) How

8.) Cool

9.) Is

10.) That? 😀

 

[Triple T1]

It looks like betrayal within the Sith is expected amongst them.Similar to the way Satanists openly embrace the seven deadly sins ,even though that causes chaos amongst their own ranks, its accepted as necassary tribute for their religion. A Sith who is too loyal, may be seen by his peers as enbracing the light side.