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*SPOILERS* Star Wars- Episode III: Revenge Of The Sith Discussion *SPOILERS*

I brought all those comics when they first came out.They are worth a fortune now and I do'nt know where the Hell I put them! I also had a collection of the original action figures.I even had two Jawas with the vinal capes.I ended up giving away most of them and blowing up all the reble figures, over twenty years ago.I still kept my favorite figure,the Stormtrooper who I used to have mounted on my paintball helmet.


It looks like Jar Jar did even better than I thought.I saw Episode 3 for the third time last night and noticed that he had billing over R2-D2 and Chewbacca on the credits. He only had 5 seconds of screen time and no lines. I guess it really pays off to brown-nose the Emperor.

My freinds all seem to absolutely love Greivous.He seemed to me, to only really be there so Lucasfilms had more merchandising.

Say Vladislaus,are any of the Yuuzhan Vong novels any good? I flipped through a few stories and found them to be suited more to be Star Trek villians.I never really gave them a chance though. I really only like stories about the Imperial forces,but 90% of the time,the main charactor ends up betraying the Empire and joining the stinkin rebellion.This always ruins it for me.
 
Actually, Grievious wasn't always a cyborg. The novelization goes into detail about his past and how he came to be in the services of Count Dooku, and by extension the Sith and Darth Sidious.

See its things like this that people just see as marketing gimmicks that fail Star Wars somehow, but everything has an explaination for it, its not a cheap throw-in or something. Not that you are saying it is.

I'm not sure of the name of the novels that cover the duration of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, but I'm sure they're there and are all good. Afterall, they force the Republic to face a foe thats unconventional, doesn't exist in the phase of the Force, and is invading the galaxy. Ultimately this forces enemies to become allies to overcome this threat, and while its a horrible scourge on the galaxy, it helps reunite it under one banner, like a pan-galactic alliance, for now anyways...
 
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:weird: Special spawned clones? Rising back to power? Rebuilding his empire? I never even heard of this stuff. Tell me more! 😀
 
LOL, I've already talked about this plenty of times, but heres an entry which covers Palpatine particularly-

" No one is quite sure how Palpatine was first introduced to the power of the dark side. He is the most powerful practitioner of the Sith ways in modern times. He studied the ancient ruins on the Sith mausoleum world of Korriban. He unlocked secrets of the Force from a captured Jedi Holocron. The dark side energies flowing through Palpatine's body were so intense, that they ravaged his mortal frame. The very source of Palpatine's strength was killing him.

To counter the dark side's consumption, Palpatine turned to a bizarre combination of technology and Sith magic. Palpatine used Spaarti cloning cylinders to create a store of younger bodies, and employed an ancient Sith technique to transfer his consciousness into a waiting clone. Thus, Palpatine could avoid death indefinitely -- as long as his supply of clones remained intact. He would change his form again and again, prolonging his life. Palpatine constructed a secret throne-world deep within the galaxy's core, on a shadowy world called Byss. Here, he kept his clones safe, protected by a loyal cadre of Dark Side Adepts.

Although Palpatine called for the extermination of the Jedi and any Force-sensitives who could conceivably challenge him, he did keep a few loyal agents who were trained in the Force. Darth Vader was chief among them, as his primary lieutenant and Sith apprentice. Palpatine also had a string of loyal, deadly agents referred to as his "Hands." Mara Jade was foremost among these dedicated enforcers.

At the Battle of Endor, Palpatine found himself facing death yet again. Betrayed by Vader, Palpatine's body was destroyed aboard the second Death Star. Separated from his clones, Palpatine was forced to survive in the maddening, bodiless existence of the void. Through sheer will he retained his identity, crossing the gulf of space to again take residence in his clone body. He barely survived Darth Vader's treachery. Palpatine remained sequestered at Byss while he rebuilt his strength, and his Empire.

Palpatine's rule was so absolute that his apparent death at Endor fragmented the Empire. With no obvious heir, opportunistic moffs and warlords set out to carve their own private fiefdoms where they could. Years of infighting worked to the advantage of the fledgling New Republic, who proceeded to reclaim three-fourths of the galaxy. One warlord who succeeded where imitators failed was Grand Admiral Thrawn, the only non-human to hold that rank. His cunning tactics and unerring strategies brought the Empire to the brink of victory five years after the Battle of Endor. Only a last minute betrayal spelled his defeat.

Spurred on by Thrawn's victories, the remaining Inner Circle of Imperial warlords staged a devastating attack on Coruscant. Whereas Thrawn sought to take the capital world intact, these Imperials attacked without compunction. Much of Imperial City was laid waste by the fighting, and the New Republic was forced to evacuate. Once on the surface, the Imperials splintered yet again, and skirmishes dragged on in amongst the ruined skyscrapers.

It was then that the resurrected Palpatine struck. Using his dark powers to invoke a Force storm of great magnitude, Palpatine swept Jedi Master Luke Skywalker to Byss. There, he revealed himself to Skywalker, and unveiled the true strength of the dark side. Faced with an immortal enemy, Skywalker did the unthinkable -- in order to defeat the dark side from within, Skywalker knelt before Palpatine, and declared himself his new apprentice. In these dark times, it seemed the Emperor had finally won.

Skywalker was too enmeshed in darkness to successfully rebel against his master. Although he sabotaged some of Palpatine's military ventures -- namely those involving immense war factories called World Devastators -- he still could do not draw himself from the pall of the dark side. It was only his sister, Leia Organa Solo, that gave him the extra strength he needed. With her presence, the two Skywalker twins were able to temporarily repulse Palpatine.

Unabated, the Emperor continued his scourge. Armed with an incredible new superweapon, the Galaxy Gun, Palpatine forced numerous New Republic worlds to capitulate to Imperial rule. Despite his growing Empire, Palpatine was again growing frail. His clones were failing him. He needed new blood. Palpatine targeted Leia's newborn son, Anakin Solo, as the next receptacle for his dark spirit. During an attempt to possess the child, Han Solo shot the ailing Palpatine in the back. Before his soul could enter Anakin's body, Palpatine was intercepted by a newfound Jedi, Empatojayos Brand. Cut off from a host body, Palpatine's essence dissipated, to be consumed by the madness that is the dark side. After so many years of bloodshed, the Emperor was truly dead."
 
I recall the cover of the one book that has luke in the darth vader suit. Wow i forgot bout luke doin that
 
He didn't really have a suit like Vader though. That cover was just cleverly artistically symbolic (like when he saw his face in Vader's helmet). Its just a play on the fact they're father and son and are connected, especially in that potentially dark way and that if Luke isn't careful he will become another Vader.

Luke wears Sith robes (akin to Darth Maul) when he's in the service of Darth Sidious.
 
Yeah i know but the cover sent alot of star wars freaks crazy from seein it. I remmeber mass histeria to get it
 
You know, I can't actually say I'm into Star Wars to the point where I'd collect things. The only things I have are cards from the CCG, and the movies, and some of the games.
 
I was thinkin since im watchin ROTJ right now about how anakin brought order to the force.....this may be a given but incase this is a new viewpoint

Anakin\vader killed most of the jedi, leaving it with palpatine and vader for sith and at the time, yoda and obi wan. Order being at 2 sith to 2 jedi, after obi wan died, luke became a jedi and trained with yoda. So the balance is intact, untill yoda died and it was luke compared to 2 sith. Then vader "kills" palpatine and dies, but palpatine survives in the long run and it remains, 1 sith and 1 jedi.

heh vlad, comments\rebuttals?
 
You have to play in the wild card- the ability of the deceased to help the living. Obi-Wan was able to aid Luke in some instances long after his death.

So you have to think whether a practioner is an asset to either side whether they are living or dead. If only physically living practioners apply then it is balanced as far as the numbers, but the Force itself is still unbalanced.

Going back to what I said earlier, the Jedi and Sith don't control the balance or the imbalance because it goes far beyond them and every living creature accounts for a portion of the living Force of the present. The Force is everywhere and its stronger in some areas than others. The Jedi don't control this nor do the Sith, they just help add to it or channel it into more positive or negative energy.

People tend to simplify the Force into something which is definitive in the sense that its a mathmatical equation. It doesn't really work that way, especially when figuring Force practioners into it or people who are Force sensitives, creatures that have huge concentrations of the Force around them, nature, etc.

The balance of Jedi and Sith is balanced at this point, you're right about that (quite obviously), but the Force itself is still unbalanced because war still exists, etc, and will continue to for a very long time.

Look at it this way- The demise of the Sith temporarily appeases the Force for a time and that in turn allows goodness to reign in for a time because the state of the galaxy wasn't as bad as it was. It allows much to be recovered, healed, and progress to be made. Theres still imbalance because of war, civil or otherwise (any anything else that figures into it), but that imbalance is not as great.

Theres different levels of balance and imbalance and current events and the state of life has alot to do with it.

Long story short- The Jedi and the Sith are not the be all end all of the Force. They couldn't possibly be. THAT would be an imbalance.
 
Vladislaus Dracula said:
LOL, I've already talked about this plenty of times, but heres an entry which covers Palpatine particularly-

" No one is quite sure how Palpatine was first introduced to the power of the dark side. He is the most powerful practitioner of the Sith ways in modern times. He studied the ancient ruins on the Sith mausoleum world of Korriban. He unlocked secrets of the Force from a captured Jedi Holocron. The dark side energies flowing through Palpatine's body were so intense, that they ravaged his mortal frame. The very source of Palpatine's strength was killing him.

To counter the dark side's consumption, Palpatine turned to a bizarre combination of technology and Sith magic. Palpatine used Spaarti cloning cylinders to create a store of younger bodies, and employed an ancient Sith technique to transfer his consciousness into a waiting clone. Thus, Palpatine could avoid death indefinitely -- as long as his supply of clones remained intact. He would change his form again and again, prolonging his life. Palpatine constructed a secret throne-world deep within the galaxy's core, on a shadowy world called Byss. Here, he kept his clones safe, protected by a loyal cadre of Dark Side Adepts.

Although Palpatine called for the extermination of the Jedi and any Force-sensitives who could conceivably challenge him, he did keep a few loyal agents who were trained in the Force. Darth Vader was chief among them, as his primary lieutenant and Sith apprentice. Palpatine also had a string of loyal, deadly agents referred to as his "Hands." Mara Jade was foremost among these dedicated enforcers.

At the Battle of Endor, Palpatine found himself facing death yet again. Betrayed by Vader, Palpatine's body was destroyed aboard the second Death Star. Separated from his clones, Palpatine was forced to survive in the maddening, bodiless existence of the void. Through sheer will he retained his identity, crossing the gulf of space to again take residence in his clone body. He barely survived Darth Vader's treachery. Palpatine remained sequestered at Byss while he rebuilt his strength, and his Empire.

Palpatine's rule was so absolute that his apparent death at Endor fragmented the Empire. With no obvious heir, opportunistic moffs and warlords set out to carve their own private fiefdoms where they could. Years of infighting worked to the advantage of the fledgling New Republic, who proceeded to reclaim three-fourths of the galaxy. One warlord who succeeded where imitators failed was Grand Admiral Thrawn, the only non-human to hold that rank. His cunning tactics and unerring strategies brought the Empire to the brink of victory five years after the Battle of Endor. Only a last minute betrayal spelled his defeat.

Spurred on by Thrawn's victories, the remaining Inner Circle of Imperial warlords staged a devastating attack on Coruscant. Whereas Thrawn sought to take the capital world intact, these Imperials attacked without compunction. Much of Imperial City was laid waste by the fighting, and the New Republic was forced to evacuate. Once on the surface, the Imperials splintered yet again, and skirmishes dragged on in amongst the ruined skyscrapers.

It was then that the resurrected Palpatine struck. Using his dark powers to invoke a Force storm of great magnitude, Palpatine swept Jedi Master Luke Skywalker to Byss. There, he revealed himself to Skywalker, and unveiled the true strength of the dark side. Faced with an immortal enemy, Skywalker did the unthinkable -- in order to defeat the dark side from within, Skywalker knelt before Palpatine, and declared himself his new apprentice. In these dark times, it seemed the Emperor had finally won.

Skywalker was too enmeshed in darkness to successfully rebel against his master. Although he sabotaged some of Palpatine's military ventures -- namely those involving immense war factories called World Devastators -- he still could do not draw himself from the pall of the dark side. It was only his sister, Leia Organa Solo, that gave him the extra strength he needed. With her presence, the two Skywalker twins were able to temporarily repulse Palpatine.

Unabated, the Emperor continued his scourge. Armed with an incredible new superweapon, the Galaxy Gun, Palpatine forced numerous New Republic worlds to capitulate to Imperial rule. Despite his growing Empire, Palpatine was again growing frail. His clones were failing him. He needed new blood. Palpatine targeted Leia's newborn son, Anakin Solo, as the next receptacle for his dark spirit. During an attempt to possess the child, Han Solo shot the ailing Palpatine in the back. Before his soul could enter Anakin's body, Palpatine was intercepted by a newfound Jedi, Empatojayos Brand. Cut off from a host body, Palpatine's essence dissipated, to be consumed by the madness that is the dark side. After so many years of bloodshed, the Emperor was truly dead."


:wooha: :wooha: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :exclamati :awe: :wooha: :grind_tee 😱 😱 😱 😱 :speechles :speechles :speechles :speechles THIS STORY ROCKS! Its like my new bed time story, though I don't have a book to read it from, and my mom hates star wars, and... :sigh: I'll shut up now. :lock:
 
Thats unfortunate. Hopefully you'll be able to get ahold of one of the books and read some of this for yourself. 🙂
 
Hey Vlad, I have another question.

Cound the Kamino cloners have created clones of Jedi? I mean, what if they cloned a Jedi like Mace Windu? He can fly fighters, he has great mastery over the force, he has exceptional close range tactics, and an army consisting of houndreds of thousands of Jedi would really be more usefull than the army of bounty hounters the emperor decided to have. So, why didn't that happen? Palpatine could just as well have programmed order 66 into their minds and then have an army almost invincible. Instead, he went with the clones of Jango Fett. Why?
 
In theory, yes. They COULD have cloned Jedi or Mace Windu or anyone for that matter, but it would be just that- a clone. It wouldn't be spiritually connected (or connected at all) to the Force, and as such it wouldn't be able to do much of anything efficiently. It wouldn't be able to live like a true Jedi, act like a true Jedi, fight like a true Jedi or use the Force like a true Jedi.

It would merely be a duplicate and training them in the Jedi Arts would be fruitless, unnecessary and a dead-end. The idea in creating a clone army spawned from a bounty hunter had it's benefits. And because the Force wasn't necessary for what the clone troopers would be doing or the purpose they'd be serving, they were trained especially for combat and military applications.

Aside from that, Palpatine needed a military army of soldiers in order to carry out his plot and also to protect the Republic from the war he would start 10 years later and mastermind. Its at this point that having an army is no longer a matter of politics but a necessity in the galaxy and when he restructures the Republic into the Galactic Empire and declares himself Emperor he is the only superpower in the galaxy and having this built up military keeps him as such.
 
Yes, but some clones like Cody did have a friendly relationship with obi-wan, at least until order 66. So, doesn't that prove that they indeed could have had a little spiritual connection? Wouldn't that have been enough to have some touch to the force?

And also, the cloners told Obi-Wan that they MADE them less independent, which proves that they messed with their personallities, their spirits, really. What if they didn't do that, or maybe just take away less of their personallity?
 
Having a business relationship with your Jedi General whom you have a comradery with because you happen to be a commander yourself has nothing to do with the Force. Your logic makes no sense.

When they said that they altered them it was specifically so their military operations and parameters would be more efficient. A clone is better than a droid, for example. They're less dependant on a command function and can utilize thought and can operate independantly. I think you're putting more stock into this than is necessary. They're just grunts used to get a job done, not unlike a droid in being sacrifical.

Later the Empire would start recruiting non-clones and the Empire would become the one we remember from the original trilogy. These people aren't clones and so have their own individual personalities, drive, and spirit. Because they would serve a different purpose than the clones they were able to attain ranks and positions that weren't formally available to the clones.

The basic stormtrooper however is the common day soldier, except they aren't clones but serve the same role the clones did.
 
Vladislaus Dracula said:
In theory, yes. They COULD have cloned Jedi or Mace Windu or anyone for that matter, but it would be just that- a clone. It wouldn't be spiritually connected (or connected at all) to the Force, and as such it wouldn't be able to do much of anything efficiently. It wouldn't be able to live like a true Jedi, act like a true Jedi, fight like a true Jedi or use the Force like a true Jedi.

It would merely be a duplicate and training them in the Jedi Arts would be fruitless, unnecessary and a dead-end. The idea in creating a clone army spawned from a bounty hunter had it's benefits. And because the Force wasn't necessary for what the clone troopers would be doing or the purpose they'd be serving, they were trained especially for combat and military applications.

Aside from that, Palpatine needed a military army of soldiers in order to carry out his plot and also to protect the Republic from the war he would start 10 years later and mastermind. Its at this point that having an army is no longer a matter of politics but a necessity in the galaxy and when he restructures the Republic into the Galactic Empire and declares himself Emperor he is the only superpower in the galaxy and having this built up military keeps him as such.

In the Heir to the Empire novels,the author centered around a cloned Jedi who was powerful but unstable ,due to cloning and the Force did'nt mix well.I think he was named C'both.Originally the author wanted to use an Obiwan clone,but Lucas's people did'nt like the idea.
These books were one of the first "expanded universe" titles.Though it seems alot of the "expanded universe" stories have been made unofficial when the new movie trilogy came about.This was due to contrasting origins.
 
Yeah. Because the clone would not possess the same spirit and essence of the Jedi (or Sith for that matter) that it was replicated from, it would not be well served to have one. They cannot harness the Force, and you'd have to train them in the Jedi Arts for them to be able to utilize any of those fighting abilities.

Its just not practical or worth the time, and is ultimately a dead-end.

Just because you clone a Force practioner doesn't mean the clone will have that power. Its just a physical recreation.

Unlike Palpatine, since he was able to transfer his soul into a clone and therefore the clone, his new body, gained all of the powers he had before. Since these clones are lifeless and are just vessals this works in this way. But in recreating a duplicate of an existing lifeforce it just doesn't work.

It all boils down to the X-factor: the soul. Without one a clone isn't truely a Jedi even if it was replicated after one.
 
Too damn lazy and drunk to read all 117 posts in this thread, but here's something I was wondering - if the Republic was meant to be so good then are we meant to assume that the idea of an entire army of clones bred into military servitude (something that seems a little too close to slavery in my book) was just a product of Sith influence?
 
This whole story in a political viewpoint is about powers in state overturning democracy and creating and breeding a dictatorship. Its all an underminding of the freedoms and liberities once had.

The Republic was failing on multiple levels, but it didn't need a military, it just needed to be revised and strengthend. Dantius Palpatine sees himself as the solution to the problem. He sees himself as the savior who will rebuild and reforge this republic and give it focus and purpose......only its not the kind that everyone else wants or suspects.

By creating a war and building an army in advance it legitimizes this beleaguered Republic having a military force to protect itself in what is it's final twilights. Because a threat has been established the force is kept.

It doesn't take a Sith to corrupt a system. It was already knee deep in corruption. But it would take a Sith-minded person to overthrow this all and take control all by him/herself.

The Sith, as a people, represent evil in it's most manipulatible form. War, violence, destruction, death, deceit, lust, conquest and domination are all things Sith look forward to and are about. And they just so happen to be traits that play on people's emotions and are enterwined in politics and government, albeit subtly alot of the time.

This whole chain of events, that is "Star Wars" was not just the product of Sith influence, but evil and ruin unadulterated. Because the system was failing and easy prey to injustice it made it so easy for a single Sith to take the helm in these troubled times.
 
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