who cares

[LD_Tickler]

Honestly, you don't know if anyone else has been punished or not. When I've gotten into it with mods, I didn't advertise it and I'd venture to guess that those who've gotten their coattails pulled don't advertise it either. It is beyond counterproductive to take a private mod decision to the public forum; it makes the perpetrator appear immature and unable to deal with the structure of an adult forum.

Just take your lumps quietly and stop with the "poor me, I'm a victim" defense. And definitely do not take a mod's private conversation and post it in public demanding an apology. Not only is his wish not going to be granted, it only adds fuel to the fire. That is NOT being controversial at all and the respect level drops several notches.

Well I sure as hell have never been punished, and I'm just as guilty as posting dissenting views which I know are going to piss people off and I know are against the spirit of the thread. A lot of those posts were directed at you, actually, and you chewed me out for them. Why haven't I been banned from gendis?

I'm just saying, whether or not you agree with his posts or like him, that in my opinion you'd have to be blind or stupid to say he's being treated fairly or that the rules which just brought down the banhammer are applied consistently.

 

[CrystalLight]

He had profanity and name calling slung at him. THAT'S personal. So you can either claim "he deserved it" in which case you subscribe to a "you get what you give" system under which you'd be a hypocrite to call for mod intervention, OR, about 10 people here need to be banned too.

Why did he get name calling and profanity slung at him?

That should be the focus. Not the fact that he did. But WHY he did.

You've got a member who is blatantly upset and coming here to seek help from his friends in the middle of what seems to be a stressful time for him.

With a case like this; timing is very much everything. You don't tell someone who's dealing with a situation like that something like he did. It's basic ethical shit. Open mouth, insert foot. It's like going to someones house the day after they lost a family member and proclaiming about what a bitch that person was.

You just don't do shit like that. Period. There's a time and a place for everything. And you have someone who is clearly upset and friends who are trying to help and then some asshat comes in and offers something like that?

What do you think was going to happen? A rousing discussion about the possibilities of that being true?

So then at what point can he start making hard-hitting, legitimate yet insensitive posts which seem reserved for those who are sufficiently well thought-of? Who gets to judge that?

Anytime he wants. It's all a matter of delivery and poise.

 

[Adam]

Welcome, everyone, to the TMF. Stands for? Too Much Fighting.

 

[Babyshambles]

So come on then.

Since you seem to think you know my motives so well.

Why do you think I would want to be shitty towards Goth when I don't think he or I have ever exchanged words publicly or privately.

In fact, about the only time I have ever said anying about goth was when I posted something about him looking very cool a few weeks ago in this thread (my comment missing, presumably because there was no pctures and it was deleted).

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?t=155639&highlight=theme

Could it not be that skip over-reacted initially by calling me a troll and a shit-stirrer, when in fact i was making a constructive remark to someone I actually like on this forum??

If saeria had actually upped sticks and left him, then sure, you dont say what i said.

But when your contemplating calling police and social services, you need to hear opinions from someone blunt and honest and not just a bunch of yes men and friends too afraid to help the poor man.

My treatment in the aftermath has been nothing short of shocking.

His behavior is upsetting and subtly directed towards other members on the forum.

There's a difference between being generally confrontational and personally.

It's no different then what another member's behavior was before he got banned.

Starting a topic and knowing it's going to be a hot-button topic, but not where it'll be directed subtly or not at another person is a lot different then just discussing a general hot-button topic. (Cliques as a whole, abortion, etc).




No offense but; Bullshit.

A post that's subtly attacking or being negative towards someone is going to go across a lot worse then one that's making an honest comment. Posts are judged by contents, but our participation here builds our reputation. And not a lot of folks are going to take to kindly to a well-seen negative person acting as so.

 

[LD_Tickler]

Why did he get name calling and profanity slung at him?

That should be the focus. Not the fact that he did. But WHY he did.

You've got a member who is blatantly upset and coming here to seek help from his friends in the middle of what seems to be a stressful time for him.

I didn't realize the Golden Rule can be ignored when you're pretty sure your target deserves the abuse.

With a case like this; timing is very much everything. You don't tell someone who's dealing with a situation like that something like he did. It's basic ethical shit. Open mouth, insert foot. It's like going to someones house the day after they lost a family member and proclaiming about what a bitch that person was.

You just don't do shit like that. Period. There's a time and a place for everything. And you have someone who is clearly upset and friends who are trying to help and then some asshat comes in and offers something like that?

What do you think was going to happen? A rousing discussion about the possibilities of that being true?

Censoring things that you find distasteful is called fascism, no matter how sure you are that you're right. He didn't break the Golden Rule, he just broke an unspoken, nebulous rule which offended the court of public opinion. Maybe he should be punished for that, but let's be up front about it and not claim he was banned according to a consistent set of well articulated rules.

Anytime he wants. It's all a matter of delivery and poise.

As judged by...?

 

[TMF Jeff]

Briefly, without getting too engaged in this, the ban was for a long track record of shitty behavior, not a single incident.

As bans on the TMF always are.

 

[CrystalLight]

Why do you think I would want to be shitty towards Goth when I don't think he or I have ever exchanged words publicly or privately.

It's not about Goth as a person. It's not about this forum, or the people in it with you, Shambles. It's about oppourtunity. You skulk around looking and seeing what could get people ramped up. Then you jump.

You just admitted yourself in that post. It doesn't matter about what's going on with Goth. It's about where you can cause the most trouble. If that thread was about a missing bicycle you'd have found a way to make it into an issue.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

So come on then.

Since you seem to think you know my motives so well.

Why do you think I would want to be shitty towards Goth when I don't think he or I have ever exchanged words publicly or privately.

In fact, about the only time I have ever said anying about goth was when I posted something about him looking very cool a few weeks ago in this thread (my comment missing, presumably because there was no pctures and it was deleted).

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?t=155639&highlight=theme

Could it not be that skip over-reacted initially by calling me a troll and a shit-stirrer, when in fact i was making a constructive remark to someone I actually like on this forum??

If saeria had actually upped sticks and left him, then sure, you dont say what i said.

But when your contemplating calling police and social services, you need to hear opinions from someone blunt and honest and not just a bunch of yes men and friends too afraid to help the poor man.

My treatment in the aftermath has been nothing short of shocking.

Because it was a popular thread, and in Babyshambles world that = an opportunity to get a rise out of people and stir shit up. I don't think hurting goth was your main focus. He was just a casualty of war.

 

[Babyshambles]

But the thing is Jeff,

I don't think I have ever been shitty.

I have occasionally said things honestly which were disagreed with, and then people started being shitty to me.

I dont want to play the victim, but I have very rarely stooped to the levels of persona attacks on others that have been directed towards me.

I have never, for example called someone a shit head, just because they pissed me off.

Not that I mean to single you out, because you do a decent job.

You left his thread running for one, although part of me thinks you were hoping to give me enough rope to hang myself, and that hasnt happened.

I will accept the ban from Gen Dis for general annoying behavious. Please would you arrange a suitable time when i might be able to go back.

Thank you

Briefly, without getting too engaged in this, the ban was for a long track record of shitty behavior, not a single incident.

As bans on the TMF always are.

 

[Babyshambles]

Because it was a popular thread, and in Babyshambles world that = an opportunity to get a rise out of people and stir shit up. I don't think hurting goth was your main focus. He was just a casualty of war.

Don't be ridiculous.

That is a very baseless thing to say.

If my threads become so popular occasionally, perhaps they resonate with a certain section of the TMF that is feeling increasingly alienated here.

 

[TMF Jeff]

But the thing is Jeff,

I don't think I have ever been shitty.

I have occasionally said things honestly which were disagreed with, and then people started being shitty to me.

I dont want to play the victim, but I have very rarely stooped to the levels of persona attacks on others that have been directed towards me.

I have never, for example called someone a shit head, just because they pissed me off.

Not that I mean to single you out, because you do a decent job.

You left his thread running for one, although part of me thinks you were hoping to give me enough rope to hang myself, and that hasnt happened.

I will accept the ban from Gen Dis for general annoying behavious. Please would you arrange a suitable time when i might be able to go back.

Thank you

I believe that you don't feel you've done anything wrong, which frankly is not a great recommendation for when I would feel comfortable restoring your access to that forum. I can only say, let's see how things go.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

Don't be ridiculous.

That is a very baseless thing to say.

If my threads become so popular occasionally, perhaps they resonate with a certain section of the TMF that is feeling increasingly alienated here.

Or, as LD pointed out, people can't resist a good argument, which you always seem to supply them with.

 

[CrystalLight]

I didn't realize the Golden Rule can be ignored when you're pretty sure your target deserves the abuse.

That's all we have here? Is folks who performed GR violations in defense of their friend? Is that the only real basis of argument that's present?

Okay. Then a mod can go back through, edit out the slagging and post a message or PM stating not to do that.

I haven't even looked at that thread since this afternoon, so I don't even know what's transpired or who did so since then.

But I'm sure the folks who did haven't had or don't have a track record like the one Shambles has made for himself; by his own accord.

Censoring things that you find distasteful is called fascism, no matter how sure you are that you're right. He didn't break the Golden Rule, he just broke an unspoken, nebulous rule which offended the court of public opinion. Maybe he should be punished for that, but let's be up front about it and not claim he was banned according to a consistent set of well articulated rules.

I believe it was just made apparent why he was banned.

As judged by...?

Who's judging?

 

[Babyshambles]

It was maybe not my place to comment on the saeria situation.

But it was posted in a public forum, where a mixing pot of people have different opinions.

There was always the chance that someone would offer a dissenting opinion.

I tried to help sensitively, really I did.

Trouble started when I was accused of being a shit stirrer and a troll. Do you think I am going to sit back and take that type of abuse?

And whenever I react to it, I get in trouble. And whenever I report a post for calling me a shit stirrer or a troll, it seems like nothing is done about it.

So what am I to do?

I believe that you don't feel you've done anything wrong, which frankly is not a great recommendation for when I would feel comfortable restoring your access to that forum. I can only say, let's see how things go.

 

[Adam]

Or, as LD pointed out, people can't resist a good argument, which you always seem to supply them with.

In that case, I think we all need to take a long look in the mirror. Every time an argument breaks out, it's the very same people responding and getting all feisty. You and I included. Let's be honest... the TMF is full of really hardheaded people. We choose a side and then defend it to the death. It's just how we are, for better or worse.

Meh... now I just kinda want to give everybody a hug.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

Trouble started when I was accused of being a shit stirrer and a troll. Do you think I am going to sit back and take that type of abuse?

And whenever I react to it, I get in trouble. And whenever I report a post for calling me a shit stirrer or a troll, it seems like nothing is done about it.

So what am I to do?

If you feel nothing is being done about a report, bring it to the attention of a moderator through a PM. Firing back vitriol at your attackers does no good for you or for them. The moderators are here to handle those issues, NOT the members. If you feel we've failed in that respect, send a PM to one of us. PM an administrator. Taking matters into your own hands is the wrong method.

This is not just for you. It applies to all posters.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

It was maybe not my place to comment on the saeria situation.

But it was posted in a public forum, where a mixing pot of people have different opinions.

There was always the chance that someone would offer a dissenting opinion.

I tried to help sensitively, really I did.

Trouble started when I was accused of being a shit stirrer and a troll. Do you think I am going to sit back and take that type of abuse?

And whenever I react to it, I get in trouble. And whenever I report a post for calling me a shit stirrer or a troll, it seems like nothing is done about it.

So what am I to do?

Stop starting shit and no one will be able to accuse you of starting shit.

 

[Babyshambles]

Cheers HDS.

It actually feels good to be spoken to like an adult, and not some filthy piece of trouble-causing shit. 🙂

If you feel nothing is being done about a report, bring it to the attention of a moderator through a PM. Firing back vitriol at your attackers does no good for you or for them. The moderators are here to handle those issues, NOT the members. If you feel we've failed in that respect, send a PM to one of us. PM an administrator. Taking matters into your own hands is the wrong method.

This is not just for you. It applies to all posters.

 

[meangry]

No offense but; Bullshit.

A post that's subtly attacking or being negative towards someone is going to go across a lot worse then one that's making an honest comment. Posts are judged by contents, but our participation here builds our reputation. And not a lot of folks are going to take to kindly to a well-seen negative person acting as so.

Plenty of known entities in this community have blood stains all over them. Your one of them. Might be working to scrub them out with a toothbrush, but it is there. Different in some ways, but I remember you and me doing some pretty good ribs on a few of the folks over across the river and having a good riot over general shit stirring.

Do I think he did the right thing? Nope. That response in that topic is going to get this ultimate reaction. To be a lightning rod, do I think dude is going about the situation the right way? Not in a manner I would. But it isn't me. It's him. Shit like Chris Benoit, Michael Jackson, or Steve McNair comes up and there is this dueling sensation to examine the circumstances or celebrating the construction as we the public deem fit. Nobody here is truly personally harmed by those things. This situation is close to people here, so maybe a level of respect is warranted.

I think Ticklenemesis putting it the way she did actually comes to close to that Chris Benoit "but he couldn't do this, he loved his kids and wife" bit to feel comfortable. I actually became uncomfortable reading that. Nobody knows motivations, the reality of situations, the manner in which it goes about through the minds of the people involved because...well...we are not those people. And that isn't to say there is something deep and dark and sinister beneath it all. I just do not think it is responsible to be eternally optimistic. That's how good folks get burned.

I am sure I will be construed as supporting Shambles for this. No. I am not. By proxy, in this disconnected thread, I think there are interesting layers to think about and discuss, in spite of the very nature perhaps provided.

 

[kis123]

Censoring things that you find distasteful is called fascism, no matter how sure you are that you're right. He didn't break the Golden Rule, he just broke an unspoken, nebulous rule which offended the court of public opinion. Maybe he should be punished for that, but let's be up front about it and not claim he was banned according to a consistent set of well articulated rules.

No, he was banned according to a consistent set of well articulated posts that were considered inflammatory and disrespectful. This has been going on for a very long time and eventually his card got punched.

The management here at TMF get to call on what they consider is and isn't acceptable behavior. This isn't always a democracy and their POVs are as subjective at times as any other human being--they aren't gods folks.

At the end of the day, we can go all around the world with this but this is a private forum where we have PRIVELEGES. Along with rights come responsibilities; be responsible then you can profess your rights......preferrably in private.

 

[Babyshambles]

Stop starting shit and no one will be able to accuse you of starting shit.

If I start shit, report it to a moderator.

If you prefer, disagree with me vocally in the thread.

But please dont call me a troll or a shit-stirrer.

Personal attacks are un called for.

 

[CrystalLight]

I have never, for example called someone a shit head, just because they pissed me off.

lolwot

I believe you insulted Skip in an extremely rude way in a thread not that long ago.

Actually--

Bella stepped in on both parties involved and tampered it down.

 

[Babyshambles]

lolwot

I believe you insulted Skip in an extremely rude way in a thread not that long ago.

Actually--

Bella stepped in on both parties involved and tampered it down.

Yes I did.

This is true. And I regret it considerably.

Skip I am very sorry for what I said to you. It was un called for and childish.

 

[CrystalLight]

Plenty of known entities in this community have blood stains all over them. Your one of them. Might be working to scrub them out with a toothbrush, but it is there. Different in some ways, but I remember you and me doing some pretty good ribs on a few of the folks over across the river and having a good riot over general shit stirring.

Oh hell yeah.

I'll freely and openly admit that I was viewed as a troll way back when I thought the "flame free forum" meant no gay people allowed.

And I still do have fun time and again.

But there's a certain common sense involved in partaking in topics. And his participation in that topic would've been one that my own personal ethics would've stopped me from doing. Regardless of how funny or amusing it was/is/might have been.

 

[sasaxrah]

But it was posted in a public forum, where a mixing pot of people have different opinions.

There was always the chance that someone would offer a dissenting opinion.

This is a big part of what you are missing. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Most people have the sense and decency to decide when to say it, and how to phrase it tactfully. You clearly lacked both of those good senses. You were kicking a guy while he was down. You fucked with a really good person who's done nothing to you.

A little bit of a side note, but worth saying regardless: I'm getting really tired of people saying hurtful things, then just saying "it's just my opinion" as if that relieves them of all responsibility. I can say the sky is red, sorry, that's just my opinion, stop challenging me. Saying "that's just my opinion" shuts down any conversation. You can't discuss it. Let's move beyond that defense mechanism, shall we?